Just curious if anyone has sold their SxS and been using SDHC exclusively?
Or is that too risky?

If you don't have any SxS cards then you won't be able to overcrank! I think everyone has at least one SxS card if not more.

1 sxs card for me, used rarely, transcend 16gb sdhc used 99% of the time.

Paul.

Personally, I think it is a good thing that you can't overcrank very much using the SDHC cards. All one has to do is look at the EX1 and EX3 videos on Vimeo to see how much this technique is overused. It is actually a blessing when I can watch a video without people or objects zipping around at high speed for no artistic or practical reason except that nearly everyone else does it.

John

It is actually a blessing when I can watch a video without people or objects zipping around at high speed for no artistic or practical reason except that nearly everyone else does it.

Sounds like undercranking or timelapse, for which SDHC works just fine.

:-)

I have never been that impressed with the overcranking feature. Maybe I would be if the speed could be increased from 60 to to say 120 or 240 using full 1920x1080 resolution.

I also wish that the LCD could be turned off when doing time lapse filming, at least this would save the battery

I also wish that the LCD could be turned off when doing time lapse filming, at least this would save the battery


Fold it away then, that switches the screen off.

Paul.

Fold it away then, that switches the screen off.

Paul.

Paul,

I just tried following your directions and now my EX3's LCD is dangling by bundle if tiny wire strands. Is there a second step? ;-)

Sorry, couldn't help myself!

I keep the 8 gig card in slot 1. I use slot 2 for my SDHC cards. BUT since I never use 24p I could overcrank all I want as often as I want with either card.

Fold it away then, that switches the screen off.

Paul.

I hadn't thought of that Paul. Must find my EX3 manual to see how to fold it.

Personally, I think it is a good thing that you can't overcrank very much using the SDHC cards. All one has to do is look at the EX1 and EX3 videos on Vimeo to see how much this technique is overused. It is actually a blessing when I can watch a video without people or objects zipping around at high speed for no artistic or practical reason except that nearly everyone else does it.

John

I agree. It's the new zoom I guess. There's a lot of complaints out there of overusing a zoom lens, but not many about this. Before I bought an EX3, I spent quite a while looking for footage of the EX1 at normal speed. Almost every video out there was over/undercranked, but then again, I suppose most of the videos out there are people just experimenting with the cameras features. It started to get a little annoying though.

I hadn't thought of that Paul. Must find my EX3 manual to see how to fold it.


Oh EX3 sorry, i thought you were using an EX1, it doesn't say what you're using on your signature.

ATTENTION ALL EX3 USERS,, DO NOT TRY AND FOLD YOUR SCREEN AWAY !!
See Ted's post above for results.

Paul.

I bought my EX1 without any cards, so I'm using SD only.
Although I've only had three shoots so far with it.

I've got all the SDHC stuff but never use it, can't get passed the time it take to transfer, with clip browser and CRC. All my shoots end with me downloading to clients portable HD and hearing them "is it ready yet?" I can't say yes, in one hour....

I like the over-cranking effect personally, I think it enhances emotion and feeling, especially when shooting people. Yes, it is probably over-used but that doesn't mean it's not useful.

I have 48Gb of SxS, if I needed more recording space I would buy more SxS. As much as the MxR stuff seems reliable, I just like knowing that the media I'm writing too has the added headroom / bandwidth.

It's a bit like using normal DV tape in an HDV cam, it usually works just fine but you know the first time it loses you footage will be the worst time it could possibly happen.

I guess it's just a case of SxS being reasuringly expensive :)

I have one 8GB SxS card. Rarely touched. SDHC works, is simple, cost effective, and has been reliable for me.

I'm going to start using the MXR adapters next week. I will still do some overcranking on my SXS cards, but I'm thinking that the high writing speed is only necessary for the live recording. Once the clip is recorded on the SXS card I can then copy it over to a SDHC card in the other slot. Is there any reason this wouldn't work? I would then have all of my clips on SDHC cards that I could keep if I want to.

It's a bit like using normal DV tape in an HDV cam, it usually works just fine but you know the first time it loses you footage will be the worst time it could possible happen.

Very well stated, Paul. Ok for non paying gigs, but if money and reputation are on the line, it seems only prudent to stick with what the manufacturer designed for the camera.

-gb-

1 x 8G SXS card and the rest,MXR with the SandDisk Ultra 2 15MB 16GB cards.
So far no problems and this is recording at a weddings, gigs, etc... and then upload to MBP in the same session, delete and then reuse.

hell, might sell my SxS cards then. cant get them to mount on my MBP, both
the delkin and kengsington adapters mount perfectly and transfer speeds through
expresscard are FAST!

Jason eludes to a problem I've never heard about when using SDHD cards.... They are slower to transfer data off of when compared to SxS? Is that true? Jason makes it sound like they are a lot slower.

if you are using a USB2 reader, then yes, going to take a bit. If you have a notebook
with an expresscard slot, one of those adapters should speed it up.

I have a MBP laptop with an express card slot. I know that using the express card slot is always faster, but....

If I download clips using a USB adaptor and SDHD card compared to downloading from a SxS card......do clips download at the same speed?

I wouldn't sell the only SxS card unless the recouped money is really important. For one, it's selling off a possible diagnostic avenue. If something happened such that the camera can't handle the KxR or MxR cards, then you can test the original card. I doubt Sony repair would test against these unofficial recording media and might not find a problem, send it back but still charge you a fee. Maybe what I'm saying is silly, I don't know.

I ran a quick test of 8 mins of 1080p/HQ from an SxS and then from an MxR. The SxS was a Sony 16gb and the MxR had a Transcend 16gb Class 6 card in it. The results were as above. This was using a MBP 2.4/4gb/stock internal 250HD/ unibody with the cards in the Express 34 slot, importing into FCP directly, as we usually do. Your mileage may vary, but looks like Sony is more than twice as fast in the transfer.

So if you only have a small amount of material or don't have clients breathing down your neck, it's no big deal, but on several recent shoots with multiple cameras, we would have been very unhappy with the slower download times. Time is money, when a client is paying.

I'm using the MxR's as back up to my SxS cards. Great to have them, just in case we need an hour or two of additional recording time, but certainly not time to sell any SxS cards.

I think John really drives home the point here.

If you are using the camera professionally, and you are charging clients, then you have the potential to recoup the costs of your SxS cards. Thus using them, especially when you're on the clock, makes perfect sense.

For those who are shooting for themselves, or who, like me, have no hard deadlines to deal with in terms of laying that footage off to other media, then the SDHC cards make sense. In my case, my employer could not afford an investment in SxS cards and thus I was going to be shooting to a Firestore that I previously owned. The addition of the SDHC recording allowed me to use the camera properly.

This situation will not be mirrored by others most likely, so we all have to make our best choices.

Agreed.

So far the only argument against the SxS substitute has been that transfer is slower. Considering that the SDHC cards are a fraction of the cost, it doesn't seem to be a factor. I can buy enough of them cheap enough that I can transfer them at home instead of in the field. How many of us brought laptops with us in the beginning so we could re-use the SxS cards? Now we don't need to. We just buy more adapters and SDHC cards dirt cheap and shoot away.

As far as the notion that we shouldn't "gamble" with SDHC cards for "paying gigs" show me the evidence that they aren't as dependable and reliable as the SxS cards. Anyone had a failure on a job with these? No one has posted it that I can tell.

John

I have been shooting SD cards pretty much exclusively since October. When I got my Delkin adapters I tested them for about 4-5 hours each card (for 6 cards), ran them hard and put them up wet. I was pleased so I used SD on a series of interviews shooting 3-5 hours a day. I offloaded to a MBPro each card took about 40-50 min to download with full verification. The SxS cards were faster by 2-3X but I can live with the time in most cases. My clients were really happy with the job. I have had more issues with the SxS cards not switching slots reliably than any problems with the SD cards. In most cases I just stop and change slots then hit record again at around 55-57 min (with the 16GB cards). I need to do some more testing with the SD cards on slot switching.

For out of town clients I'll just sell the SD cards to them so they can walk away with the media. For shooting 24-30fps the SD cards are awesome, close in cost to tape so in a lot of cases can be treated as an expendable.

For shooting 24-30fps the SD cards are awesome, close in cost to tape so in a lot of cases can be treated as an expendable.

I'd be real curious to know how you were writing 1080p to tape for $35!

SxS ingest maybe twice as fast as SDHD via USB2, but SDHC via USB2 is still at least twice as fast as digitising from tape. And more efficient.

I go out and shoot an advert in a day and get an hour of footage. This might take 30 minutes to bring into FCP instead of 15 minutes. No big deal to me or my clients. Until I bought the EX1 it took an hour.

I'll be creating motion graphics or working in Photoshop whilst it's importing anyway.

If i offload my sdhc cards on location, i offload using a kensington adaptor in my laptop express 34 slot, which is faster than offloading sdhc in the sd slot,however,the chances are my client brings along a portable hard drive and then plugs that into my pc usb socket, so there's still the usb bottleneck.

If i offload a proper sxs card via the express slot into the clients hard drive it's not gonna be any faster because the protable hard drive is in the usb slot, so still there's the usb bottleneck.

Paul.

If you're using a Macbook Pro for input via Express 34 slot, you can run FW800 drives for primary and backup storage and thus avoid the USB bottleneck altogether. Obviously, if you're not in a hurry, USB is fine, but as I mentioned before, time is money, when there's a client, a crew and a sunset approaching.

Looks like Delkin just released some new cards that might speed things up a bit for SDHC users.

DV - Digital Video (http://www.dv.com/articlenews/79864)

16gb cards for $100, NO THANKS! I can get Transcends for $28.

Maybe they are now fast enough to allow overcranking? Dunno....

Maybe they are now fast enough to allow overcranking? Dunno....

I'll never need them since I don't shoot in 24p but even still, I don't think the cards are the bottleneck.. it's the usb drivers on the EX cams..