OKay, I must sound like a heel but I have to ask another question: If the PD 150's progressive scan only captures at 1/15th of a second as opposed to 1/30th of a second, how will the picture look at 1/15th of a second progressive? More juddery than 30p? This is a crucial question which will decide whether or not I buy the AG DVX or the PD 150. HELP!

You mean, 15 frames per second, I suppose. How will it look? Choppy. Very choppy. Some call it the MTV look. :)

If progressive is what you want, don't look at the Sonys. Look at the DVX or cams with frame mode (XL1s, GL2, PV-DV953). If 24P is what you want, "the 24P film look," you have only 1 choice---unless you're planning on spending a bundle.

I´ve studied three years using the PD-150.. it´s truly a battle horse and can endure hundreds of student abuse and negligence and still give you great pictures... but forget about it´s progressive 15 fps... It´s just way too choppy.
I´m not really sure why is there... and that would be a good question.

I own a Canon XM-2 I love it.. and love the frame mode... Although it takes a little practice to avoid jaggy pictures...

But last weekend I got to play with the AG DVX... if I had the money I´d go for it... It´s great.. ít´s 24P is great.. you have to be carefull too not to get the jaggy... but the image quality is just great, and the overall usage of it... all it´s features... etc...

So If you are going for the progressive modes.. the Pana it´s the best....

Federico, You have the PD150 PAL version, right? That's 12.5 frames per second (in progressive). :)

You have helped me make my decision. Frank, you've clarified for me that the PD 150 progressive image will be choppy. You see, I use my XL1s for mostly wedding videography and some independent film stuff (hobby right now). But my bach aches after an hour with the XL1s. I like the frame/progressive scan mode on my XL1s and feel it is a must to shoot the entire wedding in frame/progressive mode because I take many many frame grabs of the wedding throughout the video and use them for different effects.

I was really leaning towards the PD 150 but if there's an easy way to get clear, unartifacted frame grabs from interlaced video through Vegas 4.0, hell I'd get the PD 150 in a second.

Any ideas?

Hugh, why not give the GL2 a whirl for weddings? Or the DVX100? Both these cams are easy to hold for hand-held shots. I find the VX/PD150 rather awkward.

"Any ideas?"

Yes, the GL2 has 30P frame mode and the DVX100 has 30P. Both aren't bad with lower light either, but a light is always nice. There's lots of fellows using the GL2 for weddings here in Vancouver.

Frank:
I don´t own the PD-150 I used it on film school... but yeah.. that should be 12.5 fps, so even "choppier"... we never used that anyway.. it was just "unusable?"...

Hugh:
What Frank says... Either GL2 (XM2 over here) or the DVX100 are great cams... that will give you a good progressive-frame look.

If you are on a tight budget then the GL2 can give you the Frame mode like the Xl1... and it´s an unbeatable cam for the price... I just love mine...

But if you can come up with a few more dollars... (which you might since you are looking at the 150) go with the PANA... It will be more versatile when doing fiction and has a lot of features... incluiding most of what the 150 already has...

One thing though is that the 150 looks and feels more resistant to abuse... And that I´ve experienced.. but doing weddings and fiction doesn´t seem like a lot of abuse to any camera anyway...

I always thought that the VX/PD is a well-built solid cam. But almost everyone wants progressive/frame mode it seems, even for weddings. I don't think you need progressive, though, for weddings and funerals. When you shoot these, you're are shooting for the client/s, and not for yourself.

Right, but Hugh did say he does "...mostly wedding videography and some independent film stuff (hobby right now)."

So he can turn the "progressive" off when he doesn´t need it... and still have it around for when doing some "film stuff". Also you never know when a client may ask for frame/prog look on their wedding.

Of course you can allways get the progressive/frame mode in post and get great results... But I hate rendering...

I think the VX/PD are great cams (remember I said we abused them in film scholl a few years ago) ... but they are few years old, and have no frame/progressive/ mode, so I would get the Panasonic if I had the money...

One thing is for sure If I was doing mostly ENG or adverse condition shooting... I´d go with the Sony... as they have proven to be very resistant and trustworthy... and I don´t think they have a match on this category...

I'd go with the Sony... as they have proven to be very resistant and trustworthy... and I don't think they have a match on this category...Agreed. They are solid work-horses.

Well boys, here's the thing: My eyeballs say PD 150 but my good common sense says DVX 100. Remember, I like progressive for weddings because I do alot of effects where, right in the middle of a shot, I will freeze frame the action, pan/crop and superimpose a silly title. The clients love it and it also makes for fantastic opening wedding video titles. If anyone can convince me that shooting with a PD150 (or the new PD170 which is out now) in DVCAM mode will allow me frame grabs without it shaking all over the place , hell, the Sony's for me. Listen, I used to get all hyped up about new products. The aggravation is just not worth it, losing sleep over 24p, 30p, frame mode, 1/15th progressive. It's enough to make a guy go crazy because you're so afraid of laying out $3,500.00 and finding out that the camera ain't doing it. Capisce? I will stay interlaced if the frame grab is steady. Look at the JVC Cineline cameras. NO progressive there and JVC is toting that baby as an interlaced cinema camera!

Oh by the way, here's the poop on the new PD170

http://www.global-dvc.org/html/PD170.asp.

That page does not come up and they don't have it listed under any of their news stories.

I am more and more convinced that this is a hoax.

But I've been wrong before.

Sony Europe does not mention this in their IBC news on their web site.

There is a thread on the '170'. Please do not continue discussion on it in this thread.

Hugh, I see what you mean. I also like to use progressive (and low shutter speeds) for effect, for weddings---for funeral's I keep it interlaced and morbid---that's probably why I'm twisted. You do enough funerals, and it takes its toll. Now don't laugh, the cams I mainly use are 2 old JVC GR-DVL9500U's, In PAL land they're called the GR-DVL9600 (DV--in/out). They have a 1/3" progressive scan CCD, and they perform very well in lower light. Sometimes I rent a Beachtek and mic to improve the audio---if they pay me enough. I had a couple of el-cheapo mics which I use to just plug in, but they've bit the bullet some time back.

Frank:

YOU VIDEOTAPE FUNERALS? HAHAHAHHAHAH! How did you get that gig? Ohh myyy God! Is there a market for that? I'll do funerals in a second! Beats weddings!

Contact some "preachers" who specialize in funerals, contact some churches, contact some funeral homes. :)

Funerals are good gigs if you can stand the mental bits.

I had one where they tried to throw themselves into the grave and shortly thereafter asked if I had gotten that all on tape.

Paid cash up front.

I had that happan to me too! This well-dressed 30 year old female, in the pouring rain, jumped, er I mean fell, on purpose, right in there! Six feet down! Yup. Got it all on tape. :)

Guys! This sounds like a fabulous documentary or short film! Can you imagine the comedy hijinks surrounding a group of funeral videographers? Fellows, I have written nine full length motion pictures screenplays that, at one time, were optioned (of course that means nothing). In any case, would you guys consider collaborating on a independent film about funeral videographers? Can youimagine the gags we could come up with? Get back to me! This is fabulous!

I own a GL2 and have had a PD150 for about 2 monhts now. Yes, the frame mode on the GL2 is nice for wedding (not sporting events). But I feel the PD150 to be a much better camera all around. Especially the XLR audio inputs and handy MIC switches. The lowlight capability is much better on the PD150, which is MY main concern at weddings. As for doing frame grabs off interlaced video, I just de-interlace the image and it seems to work perfectly. I use Media Studio Pro 7.0, but I think any software can do this also. I also like the manual zoom & focus rings. As well as the audio gain controls. The auto white balance seems to be better on the GL2 though. The PD150 has a much better auto-focus, and it has two ND filters, not just one like the GL2. The GL2 is my back-up, suited for long shots from a tripod.

Lester:

Thanks for the info. I was concerned about the quality of frame grabs and the quality of NLE software de-interlacing in general. You seem to be pretty satisfied with the results. I use Vegas 4.0 and have Pinnacle Edition 5 but have never used the Pinnacle product yet.

What???? Funeral videos????

You have got to be kidding right? What kind of sick bastard watches that??? LOL!!! Of course, I have to emphasize that I am really and truly laughing out loud as I am writing this…. …. ….. Well it took me about 10 minutes to write this paragraph alone…

… OK! This has to come out… LOL LOL LOL: I can just picture a widow, bored out of his/her mind, sitting in the couch one rainy Saturday with nothing better to do then zapping through the 534 channels of infomercials, thinking to himself/herself: “Gee! I feel like watching my spouse’s funeral video!”. Better yet, during a party… I’m pretty sure this would be considered party breaker. LOL LOL LOL A man invites is mistress, or new date to his home, and then says: “Hey! Do you want to watch my dead wife’s funeral video?” LOL LOL LOL

Oh Boy! My back is hurting me, so much I’m laughing!!! LOL LO LOL! Wow! I never though that!!! Adding Funeral Videos to my list of services. LOL!!!

Breath in… Breath out…

[15 minutes later]

OK! I’m fine now! …. LOL… well maybe not… LOL… I just can’t seem to stop laughing… LOL!

So! How much do you charge? I really got to know! Because I’m going to start offering that service if it’s good money. I just hope I wont laugh throughout the funeral… The camera shakes would be too awful. ;-) LOL

Must… Stop… Laughing.. LOL LOL LOL!

I had no idea I could laugh that much… and for such a long, long time. My head hurts.

…

It may not seem like it, but I’m really serious. Give us some details. And I’d really like to know the motivation behind people wanting to keep the most painful memories of their lives on video. As human beings, I though we cherished and tried to prolong all the happy moments that touched our lives; and tried to minimize as much as possible the sadness that afflicted us, once the mourning stage has passed.

Fred

I know of a funeral that was videotaped. The reason was that the person who died was a war veteran and was going to receive a 21-gun salute from the Air Force Honor Guard and such, but most of his family was six states away and broke, and couldn't make it to the funeral. So they wanted the funeral taped so that all who couldn't make it could still see how their beloved was sent off to the next world.

Very good example. That I can fully understand. Truly something to be taken seriously. I'm curious though, how do clients react to the business transaction part in times of mourning? Naturally, the videographer has to handle this delicately, but there must be some awkward moments, no? What are typical fees? Does anyone have a demo clip on the web I could watch?