Hi Charles,

When I tried Prospect and Neo HD a few weeks back (prior to the native 5D support in the latest Neo Scene release), HDLink called a Directshow filter for the decode just as you describe. I'm not sure if substituting Canon's decoder for CoreAVC will make a difference to the way CS4 handles the -15 and 236+ range; I can't test as my trials of the the full HDLink supplied with Neo HD and Prospect have expired.

However, I have the latest Neo Scene on trial (2 days until expiry) and I can confirm this latest release doesn't call an external decoder and it does the conversion internally. Either that, or it is hard-coded to use a directshow filter that isn't CoreAVC or FFDShow.

I'm sure you can get your trial periods extended. I've done it with other products often, when there is a valid reason. Just send them a link to this thread.

I've been doing some experimenting to find a workable Premiere Pro CS4 workflow. I've posted a solution here.

I'm looking forward to full Cineform CS4 compatibility now and especially the CS4 Prospect trial!

I've been doing some experimenting to find a workable Premiere Pro CS4 workflow. I've posted a solution here.

I'm looking forward to full Cineform CS4 compatibility now and especially the CS4 Prospect trial!

Any reason this couldn't be used with CS3?

This thread is great news, NeoScene looks to be the missing link for the 5d2. A tactical question, after installing NeoScene and QT and the a3 filter I can convert 5d2 mov's into beautiful avi's as played on QT. But Sony Vegas 8.1 only shows the audio from the new avi, what am I missing?
Thank you.

Showing my stupidity: What is A3 and why is it needed with QT and Neo Scene?

So just to recap all the discussion up to this point, and let me know if I'm correct in my assessment:

- NeoScene can now transcode 5D2 mov files. However, files transcoded in Scene will have the famous Crushed Black issue, whereas if the native mov files are imported into Vegas, they do not have the Crushed Black issue.

- Cineform has not addressed why NeoScene exhibits the crushed black issue especially when the issue was suppose to have been fixed with the 7.6 QT update.

So just to recap all the discussion up to this point, and let me know if I'm correct in my assessment:

- NeoScene can now transcode 5D2 mov files. However, files transcoded in Scene will have the famous Crushed Black issue, whereas if the native mov files are imported into Vegas, they do not have the Crushed Black issue.

- Cineform has not addressed why NeoScene exhibits the crushed black issue especially when the issue was suppose to have been fixed with the 7.6 QT update.

This is damn confusing. I wish someone with a talent for technical writing could summarize this for us.

1) 5D2 clips converted with Neo Scene have nothing crushed. The data goes naturally and correctly from 0 to 255. However much software expects the the traditional narrower range, ignores the metadata, and causes problems when the neo scene clips are converted with that software.

2) There is no problem for Cineform to address.

3) I have no idea if QT 7.6 has fixed everything. When I import a QT 7.6 scene from 5D2 into Premiere CS3, and look at an RGB parade, I see band banding that clearly shows it is screwing up something in the color values during the 5D2 conversion or somehow when importing into Premiere.

This is damn confusing. I wish someone with a talent for technical writing could summarize this for us.

1) 5D2 clips converted with Neo Scene have nothing crushed. The data goes naturally and correctly from 0 to 255. However much software expects the the traditional narrower range, ignores the metadata, and causes problems when the neo scene clips are converted with that software.

2) There is no problem for Cineform to address.

3) I have no idea if QT 7.6 has fixed everything. When I import a QT 7.6 scene from 5D2 into Premiere CS3, and look at an RGB parade, I see band banding that clearly shows it is screwing up something in the color values during the 5D2 conversion or somehow when importing into Premiere.

3) As I mentioned a month ago, I don't think the QT 7.6 update has corrected the issue 100% yet. If you are using raw 5d mk II files on the timeline (at least on Vegas Pro), you are losing some levels. See what I posted here: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/canon-eos-5d-mk-ii-hd/142082-crush-problem-solved-qt-7-6-a-2.html#post1000320. This is another reason why I have chosen to purchase Neo Scene and use that workflow. Now if only I could get it to work on my system I'd be in business.

3) As I mentioned a month ago, I don't think the QT 7.6 update has corrected the issue 100% yet. If you are using raw 5d mk II files on the timeline (at least on Vegas Pro), you are losing some levels. See what I posted here: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/canon-eos-5d-mk-ii-hd/142082-crush-problem-solved-qt-7-6-a-2.html#post1000320. This is another reason why I have chosen to purchase Neo Scene and use that workflow. Now if only I could get it to work on my system I'd be in business.

Damn you (<grin>). I thought I had a working process with Neo Scene until you pointed out problems. I'm going to study them also.

Keith: Why isn't Scene converted 5D2 files not working for you in Vegas?

Keith: Why isn't Scene converted 5D2 files not working for you in Vegas?

I wish I knew :D
In a nutshell, there are 3 issues i've identified. 1) on large file transcodes, hdlink is crashing (seems to be a memory leak) 2) on smaller clips, it creates a file, but they are significantly oversized (possibly related to #1), 3) on some clips, the video clip is being truncated at some point prior to the end of the clip - the full audio is transcoded but in one particularl clip only about half of the video is transcoded, and this is on a file that ends up being about 5.5 times larger than it should. On the same machine that I've observed these issues, I have a Windows 7 Beta virtual machine installed and I tried installing the neoscene trial on this virtual machine and #1 and #2 are not a problem at all, but #3 is still a problem. So that tells me there is likely something on my primary machine that is creating a conflict with NeoScene and not a universal bug (but others may encounter the same problem). #3 is possibly related to issues with specific source clips, but I wasn't able to try any more out before my 7-day trial expired.

Hopefully Cineform support will figure it out soon.

I wish I knew :D
In a nutshell, there are 3 issues i've identified. 1) on large file transcodes, hdlink is crashing (seems to be a memory leak) 2) on smaller clips, it creates a file, but they are significantly oversized (possibly related to #1), 3) on some clips, the video clip is being truncated at some point prior to the end of the clip - the full audio is transcoded but in one particularl clip only about half of the video is transcoded, and this is on a file that ends up being about 5.5 times larger than it should. On the same machine that I've observed these issues, I have a Windows 7 Beta virtual machine installed and I tried installing the neoscene trial on this virtual machine and #1 and #2 are not a problem at all, but #3 is still a problem. So that tells me there is likely something on my primary machine that is creating a conflict with NeoScene and not a universal bug (but others may encounter the same problem). #3 is possibly related to issues with specific source clips, but I wasn't able to try any more out before my 7-day trial expired.

Hopefully Cineform support will figure it out soon.

In order to get rid of problems such as you mention, Cineform sent me a long list of things to do to remove remnants of old stuff from my system. That plus removing anything having the slightest thing to do with codecs or players (except WMP) cleared me out. Then I installed Neo Scene and it worked fine (knock on wood).

Codec handling in windows is one of the worst things in there, and that is saying a lot.

In order to get rid of problems such as you mention, Cineform sent me a long list of things to do to remove remnants of old stuff from my system. That plus removing anything having the slightest thing to do with codecs or players (except WMP) cleared me out. Then I installed Neo Scene and it worked fine (knock on wood).

Codec handling in windows is one of the worst things in there, and that is saying a lot.

Is that the same list that was posted here earlier (involving removing Cineform related folders and keys from the registry)? If so, I've been through all of those steps a couple of times and I still have the problems.

Is that the same list that was posted here earlier (involving removing Cineform related folders and keys from the registry)? If so, I've been through all of those steps a couple of times and I still have the problems.

His instructions are enclosed. It had no copyright claims.

His instructions are enclosed. It had no copyright claims.

thanks, that's pretty much what was posted in another thread. I tried that with no luck. The one peculiarity was that when I tried the step that says: Remove 'CineForm HD VFW Codec' from Add/Remove Programs (if it is listed there)., I just got an error that said it couldn't be removed, with no reason given or fix suggested. Maybe that's my problem.

thanks, that's pretty much what was posted in another thread. I tried that with no luck. The one peculiarity was that when I tried the step that says: Remove 'CineForm HD VFW Codec' from Add/Remove Programs (if it is listed there)., I just got an error that said it couldn't be removed, with no reason given or fix suggested. Maybe that's my problem.

I think there are utilities that will let you find the actual files for the add/remove program so you can delete them (and confuse the heck out of the add/remove program). It would obviously have something to do with the registry.

thanks, that's pretty much what was posted in another thread. I tried that with no luck. The one peculiarity was that when I tried the step that says: Remove 'CineForm HD VFW Codec' from Add/Remove Programs (if it is listed there)., I just got an error that said it couldn't be removed, with no reason given or fix suggested. Maybe that's my problem.

Keith, there is hope. Some time ago I had installed a trial version of Aspect HD and when I uninstalled it I went to lengths to get everything out, including editing the registry. Then when I installed the first beta version of Neo Scene that had the problem of crashing explorer I uninstalled and installed Neo Scene several times, a couple of times with registry editing. FYI I use CCleaner quite a bit, to root out bad registry data as well as to save the registry before any edits (where I use regedit); CCleaner might also work to remove the VFW codec. After all this the current Neo Scene version runs very well for me, actually on two different computers. Of course I still can't edit smoothly and am axiously awaiting the CS4 importer.

I wish I knew :D
In a nutshell, there are 3 issues i've identified.
1) on large file transcodes, hdlink is crashing (seems to be a memory leak)
[...snip...]
2) on smaller clips, it creates a file, but they are significantly oversized (possibly related to #1)


Reference #1: When using Neo HD and HD Link, I had the same problem. HD Link would use more of Windows Page File each time a MOV file was converted, and never release it. After a few files, it would gobble up the entire Page File and HD Link would crash. I've not experienced the same problem with Neo Scene.

Reference #2: When I used the Trial version of Neo *HD* and HD Link, I was noticing that the converted files were anywhere from 20-50% larger than the native MOV files from the 5D mmk II. With Neo *Scene*, the files are AT LEAST 5-8 times larger than the native MOV fles straight from the camera. A 60MB clip in MOV format will be nearly 500MB after conversion. This causes problems for Premier Pro, as you can't put many 500MB clips on the time line before it runs out of memory and crashes.

Since purchasing Neo Scene, I've been able to create a nearly 4-minute long video, but Premier Pro CS3 crashed at least 30 times during the edit (simple cut transitions), most likely due to memory problems. My work flow ended up being: Drag a file to the timeline, make an edit, save the project, make another edit, save the project, crash, restart Premier and load the project and continue the process.

Julian

You guys who are having issues with NLE crashing while working with NeoScene files, have you tried transcoding other files to Cineform codec? If NLE continues to crash with media transcoded from another source such as HDV, then NeoScene is the problem...

That's a good thing to try... but to answer your question, no, I haven't tried it yet. I'm sure it's a memory problem, for example, loading 3+ GB of video files into Premier with only 3GB RAM on the motherboard. The problem is that there souldn't be 3+ GB of video files in the first place!

I think Neo Scene is creating files which are just way too big (as I said, 5-8 times as large as the original MOVs). Neo HD's HDLink created files which were much smaller, only about 20% larger than the originals. When a single short clip (60mB MOV) becomes a 500MB monster AVI after conversion, you won't be able to fit many of these short clips on the timeline before you run into problems.

Julian

You guys who are having issues with NLE crashing while working with NeoScene files, have you tried transcoding other files to Cineform codec? If NLE continues to crash with media transcoded from another source such as HDV, then NeoScene is the problem...

First of all, right now to get Neo Scene to work, you have your totally clean your machine of every codec and player and then reinstall it.

Also, The only premiere CS3 crash I've ever seen was when I was trying to show a clip for which the codec was missing and even then it would first show the clip all screwed up.

First of all, right now to get Neo Scene to work, you have your totally clean your machine of every codec and player and then reinstall it.

Also, The only premiere CS3 crash I've ever seen was when I was trying to show a clip for which the codec was missing and even then it would first show the clip all screwed up.

I have been informed that there is a build that fixes the hdlink crashing issue, but it's not going to be released until next week. Hopefully this (memory leak?) is related to the filesize bloating issue as well, and will fix the PP crashes.

That's a good thing to try... but to answer your question, no, I haven't tried it yet. I'm sure it's a memory problem, for example, loading 3+ GB of video files into Premier with only 3GB RAM on the motherboard. The problem is that there souldn't be 3+ GB of video files in the first place!

I think Neo Scene is creating files which are just way too big (as I said, 5-8 times as large as the original MOVs). Neo HD's HDLink created files which were much smaller, only about 20% larger than the originals. When a single short clip (60mB MOV) becomes a 500MB monster AVI after conversion, you won't be able to fit many of these short clips on the timeline before you run into problems.

Julian

Interesting.. so there discussion of whether this is as designed? Why do the files from NeoHD come out so relatively small? Are the NeoScene files big only for 5D2 input files? or other sources as well? If it's also other sources, then I can not use NeoScene in my workflow as I anticipate of having large hour long files from my wedding business...

Interesting.. so there discussion of whether this is as designed? Why do the files from NeoHD come out so relatively small? Are the NeoScene files big only for 5D2 input files? or other sources as well? If it's also other sources, then I can not use NeoScene in my workflow as I anticipate of having large hour long files from my wedding business...

I have observed that Neo Scene works properly on a "clean" system install. As I posted in another thread, when it's working properly, the files it generates (using the default "Medium" setting for the codec) are only very slightly larger than the source 5D file (131MB vs 127MB on one test file I encoded). It is comparable (in terms of filesize) to rewrapping the .mov files to .mp4 (due to the audio transcode in the rewrap process). But there's something on my main system configuration that is tripping it up, and some other folks seem to be having the same issue.

But there's something on my main system configuration that is tripping it up, and some other folks seem to be having the same issue.

Keith, have you tried the new version 1.1.1 fix?
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/cineform-software-showcase/144588-neo-scene-1-1-1-cs4-windows.html

Keith, have you tried the new version 1.1.1 fix?
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/cineform-software-showcase/144588-neo-scene-1-1-1-cs4-windows.html

It wasn't really intended to fix the issues I reported, but I tried it anyhow, with no success.

What is the point of the Neo Scene Cineform conversion when it still eats up the blacks and whites of the original QT file? Same as any free converter/rewrapper.
File size goes up from 150MB to 1GB and still no real time Windows playback?
Am I a coplete idiot when I say that this is the most pointless waste of money if the Neo Scene stays that way?
I really want to buy something to edit (Premiere CS4) my growing amount of 5D footage but at any price there just isn't a way to properly do it.

Please tell me I'm a fool doing something really wrong but out of the box the conversion only messes up and crushes the blacks and whites and eats up disk space.
It actually won't allow me to edit at all in Premiere as I can not play back the sequence.
Sure it crashes and everithing as it's suposed to on a Windows machine but why bother with a product that just wastes three hours of my time to make sure it is not usable.

T

I have observed that Neo Scene works properly on a "clean" system install. As I posted in another thread, when it's working properly, the files it generates (using the default "Medium" setting for the codec) are only very slightly larger than the source 5D file (131MB vs 127MB on one test file I encoded). It is comparable (in terms of filesize) to rewrapping the .mov files to .mp4 (due to the audio transcode in the rewrap process). But there's something on my main system configuration that is tripping it up, and some other folks seem to be having the same issue.

I was going to post those same results... I installed it on my Clean system when I got home last night and it briskly zipped through the same MOVs I'd used earlier in greater than real time. The original conversion of a 60MB file on the messy system was just under 500MB. On the clean system, 130MB!

Neo Scene stopped in the middle of processing the 16th file in the batch (I used the "Select Folder" option), creating a zero-byte file. I used the "Select Files" option and selected the remaining 20 or so files, including the one it had trouble with, and it successfully converted all of them.

I replaced all of the old, bloated AVIs in my project with the new skinny AVIs and Premier didn't crash once. In fact, whereas before, I could only import 3 minutes of video before Premier would crash. Now I had well over 6 minutes of video on the timeline and Premier was fine. During conversion, on the clean system, my Windows Page File never went above 750MB. On the messy system, it grew to well over 3GB.

As Toenus points out though, the blacks are still crushed, but if you use the Fast Color Corrector, you can adjust the Black Output and White Output levels and the shadow detail comes back. I'm not sure if this is the preferred, or even correct method, but it works. I have full speed play back using the Cineform intermediate CODEC, but as soon as I add the Fast Color Correction effect, playback begins to stutter and slow down again.

Julian

What is the point of the Neo Scene Cineform conversion when it still eats up the blacks and whites of the original QT file? Same as any free converter/rewrapper.
File size goes up from 150MB to 1GB and still no real time Windows playback?
Am I a coplete idiot when I say that this is the most pointless waste of money if the Neo Scene stays that way?
I really want to buy something to edit (Premiere CS4) my growing amount of 5D footage but at any price there just isn't a way to properly do it.

Please tell me I'm a fool doing something really wrong but out of the box the conversion only messes up and crushes the blacks and whites and eats up disk space.
It actually won't allow me to edit at all in Premiere as I can not play back the sequence.
Sure it crashes and everithing as it's suposed to on a Windows machine but why bother with a product that just wastes three hours of my time to make sure it is not usable.

T

It is not designed to do that. As far as I know, it is designed to enable us to bypass the stupidity of Quicktime and their screwed up handling of YUV-RGB colorspace conversion (though I would like to see a bit more about how Neo Scene is really handling that - some configuration options would be nice just in case there are future unforeseen issues). It is also designed to generate files of manageable size which are easier to edit with than the raw footage that is spit out of current HD cameras. When it is working correctly, as far as I can tell, it does these things. It's just that some of us have encountered some snags and Cineform are working through these snags.

This is just my perception, but at its core Cineform is a very specialized technology company that was initially focused on a very specialized market. But with the advent of more affordable gear that can shoot great hi-def footage, a new market has emerged that consists of video enthusiasts, prosumers, and pros. The size of this audience is potentially orders of magnitude larger than Cineform's original market which consisted almost strictly of pros. In other words, as they tap this new market, there will likely be some growing pains as they find their way through supporting the demands of the new market and balancing it with their original core market.

I was going to post those same results... I installed it on my Clean system when I got home last night and it briskly zipped through the same MOVs I'd used earlier in greater than real time. The original conversion of a 60MB file on the messy system was just under 500MB. On the clean system, 130MB!

Neo Scene stopped in the middle of processing the 16th file in the batch (I used the "Select Folder" option), creating a zero-byte file. I used the "Select Files" option and selected the remaining 20 or so files, including the one it had trouble with, and it successfully converted all of them.

I replaced all of the old, bloated AVIs in my project with the new skinny AVIs and Premier didn't crash once. In fact, whereas before, I could only import 3 minutes of video before Premier would crash. Now I had well over 6 minutes of video on the timeline and Premier was fine. During conversion, on the clean system, my Windows Page File never went above 750MB. On the messy system, it grew to well over 3GB.

As Toenus points out though, the blacks are still crushed, but if you use the Fast Color Corrector, you can adjust the Black Output and White Output levels and the shadow detail comes back. I'm not sure if this is the preferred, or even correct method, but it works. I have full speed play back using the Cineform intermediate CODEC, but as soon as I add the Fast Color Correction effect, playback begins to stutter and slow down again.

Julian

This would be different than the dreaded "black crush" issue. The original issue was that there was clipping and no way to get it back unless the file was processed through Color or by bypassing Quicktime. So far, on the test files I was able to successfully convert with Neo Scene (on the "clean" system), it appears that I am getting the full range (at least on my Vegas 8.0c timeline). It does have a considerably different gamma than what you see from the Quicktime 7.6 player (I would hazard a guess and say that the Quicktime player is obeying the 2.199997 gamma tag in the 5d Mk II file's header). The cineform file's gamma is also slightly darker than what the QT plugin generates on the Vegas timeline with "raw" .mov files straight out of the 5d Mk II, but you can get the same look with if you apply a gamma of about 1.14 to the Cineform clip (I believe I have seen this gamma number referenced in another thread).

Keith,

In Vegas, do you get a 100% smooth histogram when using Cineform? Note that you need to set your preview to "Best" and 1920x1080 in order for the histogram scope to show the video accurately.

Keith,

In Vegas, do you get a 100% smooth histogram when using Cineform? Note that you need to set your preview to "Best" and 1920x1080 in order for the histogram scope to show the video accurately.

yes, I can confirm that it is perfectly smooth in a 1920x1080 Best/Full preview.

Just to let others know, I have downloaded latest version that was posted for Premiere users who were having problems, and I actually use Vegas. I was having problems getting the earlier version of Scene to work. It would not convert my first test 5dii files. I actually had it loaded side by side with my Neo HDV, as David Newman had suggested in another thread.

After loading this version, and uninstalling NeoHDV, conversions are fine, and even show the wider range we have been looking for to show up, at least on the highlight side. I demonstrated this to myself by loading a converted file on one line of Vegas, and the .mov file right off the camera on another, and in toggling back and forth, the converted file highlights had detail where things were blown out on the camera raw files.

I had hoped I would be able to keep NeoHDV running on the system at the same time, as I do like the conversion capabilities it gives, and I will keep trying to get it to run beside NeoScene.

yes, I can confirm that it is perfectly smooth in a 1920x1080 Best/Full preview.Excellent. I'll be getting NeoScene before our next project goes to post...

Excellent. I'll be getting NeoScene before our next project goes to post...

Make sure you try the trial before buying to be sure it does what you want. Also, if you decide to buy it, don't miss the special at videoguys.

I have observed that Neo Scene works properly on a "clean" system install. As I posted in another thread, when it's working properly, the files it generates (using the default "Medium" setting for the codec) are only very slightly larger than the source 5D file (131MB vs 127MB on one test file I encoded). It is comparable (in terms of filesize) to rewrapping the .mov files to .mp4 (due to the audio transcode in the rewrap process). But there's something on my main system configuration that is tripping it up, and some other folks seem to be having the same issue.

Thank for the info Keith.. I'll make sure to try it out on my system... I think this issue is serious enough that it's worth a format / reinstall of OS if indeed it is software conflicting with NeoScene..

Thank for the info Keith.. I'll make sure to try it out on my system... I think this issue is serious enough that it's worth a format / reinstall of OS if indeed it is software conflicting with NeoScene..

yeah, I'm feeling the same way but I'm trying to avoid actually doing it so I don't have to go through all the stupid software activation hassles.

This may answer your question (or maybe not) but this is what I found a few months ago when looking at the Quicktime atoms in the header of a 5d Mk II file. I think it's a little strange that the "matrix" is listed as being 601 while the primaries and transferfunction are 709, but then again, I'm not real clear on what they all mean so it could be inconsequential.


I've created a new thread here because I think it is quite important, and I don't want it to get buried... this thread is quite busy! Also, it isn't directly related to Cineform, although I'm hoping someone from Cineform will know the answer for certain.

Also, if you decide to buy it, don't miss the special at videoguys.

Edit: this would have been an easy sale except they want to charge me $50 for shipping... yeah, no thanks, I'll download it right from cineform.

On the various postings on other threads for cineform and neo scene, everything is about vegas, premier, windows and the all the problems. How is neo scene working with fcp. Highlights and shadows, making files easier to work with, 4:2:2 for green screening. In other words, should this be an instant download??

The differences between 601 and 709 are easy to spot with the eye. I pasted a screen capture of each video image into Photoshop to make it easier to compare.

I couldn't find anywhere that said what CoreAVC does or doesn't do, which is partly why I posted here to see if anybody could confirm or find error in my findings.



Thane, I checked with the authors of CoreAVC and they said that you are indeed correct. They are working on adding an option, which will allow you to specify either 601 or 709. This may all be moot for me at least, since it looks like Cineform has licensed the most recent MainConcept h.264 decoder for all their products. NEO Scene already has it. I'm guessing that the upcoming new versions of Prospect HD and NEO HD will also have it.

File size goes up from 150MB to 1GB and still no real time Windows playback?

Note to all that if you're seeing sizes go up this much, check if you have Nero 7 installed. It can cause problems for some reason. My NeoScene was producing 1gb sized files out of like 250mb source, which would then crash After Effects CS4, etc.

I un-installed Nero 7 and now no problems.

Note to all that if you're seeing sizes go up this much, check if you have Nero 7 installed. It can cause problems for some reason. My NeoScene was producing 1gb sized files out of like 250mb source, which would then crash After Effects CS4, etc.

I un-installed Nero 7 and now no problems.

4X doesn't seem out of hand. 3X is normal for me with the latest Neo Scene and it edits fast. The lowest I've ever seen was 2X. Considering that it is lossless, these are amazingly small file sizes.

Edit: I always use the high quality setting.

Edit2: I don't have Nero. Quit using it a few years ago after support refused to admit a serious problem.

... Edit2: I don't have Nero. Quit using it a few years ago after support refused to admit a serious problem.


Heh, heh, Their whole bloated Nero software suite is a multimedia plague locusts, that will, in time devour your PC. What happened after those first few Nero versions? These days, Nero is unforgiving. It installs codecs and other DirectShow filters. Then it unilaterally decides that its filter merits should supersede anything that you already have installed. Nero is like a malevolent freeware codec pack that's run amok. It's now, also aptly named, as it fiddles about with the internal workings of your computer, while it also sets it on fire. Aaargh! Enough of my neo-Nero rants.

BTW Cineform isn't lossless, it's "visually lossless". Render about 4 or 5 generations on the "High" setting and you will begin to see a few compression artifacts. But how often are you going to do that?

CFHD is still the best intermediate codec out there. It's fast, the files are of a reasonable size and their tech support is great. Further, unlike most software companies these days, they are in tune with their customers (sorta the anti-Microsoft) and are constantly making improvements and adding features.

I did want to add to my previous post to Thane that the people at CoreAVC also told me that the PC setting is fixed at 709 and the TV setting is 601.

Heh, heh, Their whole bloated Nero software suite is a multimedia plague locusts, that will, in time devour your PC. What happened after those first few Nero versions? These days, Nero is unforgiving. It installs codecs and other DirectShow filters. Then it unilaterally decides that its filter merits should supersede anything that you already have installed. Nero is like a malevolent freeware codec pack that's run amok. It's now, also aptly named, as it fiddles about with the internal workings of your computer, while it also sets it on fire. Aaargh! Enough of my neo-Nero rants.

BTW Cineform isn't lossless, it's "visually lossless". Render about 4 or 5 generations on the "High" setting and you will begin to see a few compression artifacts. But how often are you going to do that?

CFHD is still the best intermediate codec out there. It's fast, the files are of a reasonable size and their tech support is great. Further, unlike most software companies these days, they are in tune with their customers (sorta the anti-Microsoft) and are constantly making improvements and adding features.

Ok, I wasn't going to tell my Nero rant, but I just can't resist. It makes me feel good to share such stories (I must be evil at heart).

I was having trouble processing any output from Premiere CS3 with the Nero movie thingie. I narrowed the problem down to Nero by finding the most vanilla DV I could find, testing the DV with every player, putting it in Premiere, did no editing, and outputting vanilla DV. The premiere output played perfectly in every player of about 6 kinds. When Nero Movie was told to open the file it immediately (0.1 secs) popped up an error box saying the file was corrupt.

I emailed Nero support and they immediately gave me a standard response, that they can't support every video file because many files are non-standards-compliant. I email back and explained in detail how this couldn't be the case. I got the same form response back.

I tried one last time and asked for some higher level of support tech to read my story or I'd never use them again, but you guessed it, the same response came back.

So no more Nero.

I posted over in the Cineform forum, but I am wondering if others are facing sound synch issues on long converted file. Most of my shooting has been in short 2 minute and under recordings. However, I just happended to shoot a "talking head" shot.

In the .mov file everything is synched perfectly. But in the conversion file, as you slide down toward the end of the file, it gets more and more out of synch. David Taylor suggested that I change playback configuration and I did that, but it does nothing for playing the files in Media Player or Media player classic, or on the Vegas time line. Only way I can fix it is chop up sound track in Vegas.

I am wondering if it has to do with frame rate 30 FPS v. 29.97 or some issue like that.

I know there hasn't been a lot of stuff shot of voice and talking heads, because of othersound issues with this camera, but for those that are, have you seen similar issues ?

I also noticed that Cineform-converted video claims 29.97 for the output frame rate. I haven't done anything of note with the onboard audio though.

You might need to ungroup the audio and video and then change the frame rate to 30.0.

I did want to add to my previous post to Thane that the people at CoreAVC also told me that the PC setting is fixed at 709 and the TV setting is 601.

The new version of the CoreAVC decoder (1.95) now has an option that allows you to select the input color space

The new version of the CoreAVC decoder (1.95) now has an option that allows you to select the input color space

That's great, but it is a bit odd that they let you "auto-detect" the output format. Think about that for a second.

You might need to ungroup the audio and video and then change the frame rate to 30.0.


On my thread about the 869 MB, 12 minute clip, there's a quote from Canon support which says the 5D mk II actually records as 29.97 fps, even though they call it "30 fps".

Julian