Hello, and thanks in advance for your help. I will be shooting a doc starting next week and would like some input. I will be shooting almost all of it outdoors as it is about my son walking 500 miles. I'll take any and all replies into consideration. Should I shoot in HD? What modes would you use? Please point me in the right direction. And if you have examples of your work with the settings you suggest, that would be even better.

Thanks again,

Mike

Definitely shoot in HD.
It's probably best to shoot interlaced unless you are after a particular look.
And go through the threads relating to settings in order to pick one that is suitable. I would suggest something fairly neutral. You can always adjust it when you are editing.

I find that I use the "A", or automatic, setting most of the time...the camera is smarter than I am. When things get busy, I have enough on my mind without worrying about exposure and other stuff the camera can do better than I can.... This is not the "doofus easy recording" setting, which avoid like the plague; it's the "A", first click counterclockwise from the "off" position....

I have, however, made a custom preset I use all the time that opens the shadows a little while adding a slight amount of contrast and saturation, and shoot on "A" with that, but it's a personal taste thing that you will figure out as you go, not an essential.

My colleagues are made of tougher stuff and take pride in going "all manual" but I am ether dumb or lazy and find the A works most of the time --unless it is a special situation where a high shutter speed or something is required. Don't tell them I said this, they would point and snicker. But it works for me, you can see results with anything with my name on it at miamiherald.com...Battle Vaughan/miamiherald.com video team

PS-- Richard is right, shoot HDV by all means, you can downconvert to SD just fine but not vice-versa; it takes no more tape to shoot HDV and imho the SD from the XHA1 is not great, although there are people here who vehemently disagree with me on that.. /bv

Richard, why interlaced??

I'm about to make the transition to shooting progressive, but if you can convince me otherwise, please explain...

Take care.

Richard, why interlaced??

I'm about to make the transition to shooting progressive, but if you can convince me otherwise, please explain...

Take care.

... why interlaced??


Autofocus will work better with interlaced shooting, and autofocus with the XH-A1 is excellent.

Interlaced will prevent problems with odd camera movements and pans that come up with progressive shooting.

To use progressive, I think it reasonable to have a list of specific reasons it's being used. Otherwise, interlaced is likely to give better video overall when shooting on the fly in changing situations, I believe.

Pesonnally I find the 1080i crispier than my 30f.

Agreed. HDV for sure. 60i makes sense since it sounds like you'll be shooting wild. Progressive adds some complexity. Not a lot and easily handled if you're experienced in it.

Can't agree with using automatic. Too many variables controlled by the camera, including gain. The camera may be smart but I don't like it choosing gain for me. The autofocus may be brilliant, but I cannot comment since I've never used it.

Also, I'd go with the factory preset. It'll be easier to push around in post and will likely be more forgiving in the wide variety of situations you'll be shooting in.

Battle, i'm surprissed that you actuall admit shooting in the 'A" mode. Seems like a lot of XHA1 users only use the manual setting. I still use the easy mode and I find that it works just fine for me. Now I should also state that I am usually shooting under very controlled conditions with good lighting. Do you think theres that much of a differece between the "A" and easy mode as it relates to picture quality? Also, thanks for the advice that you've given me on some of my other threads. In case you have'nt noticed i'm new to the xha1.

What's wrong with manual?
Shet the shutter, set the gain, set the ND and control the light with the aperture ring.
It is really that easy.

Peter - I think that your question about interlaced has been answered by others since you asked it and before I just read it.
I'm partially with Vaughan on the use of automatic although I know I am not supposed to admit it.
I don't use the A setting but I normally use the TV setting in conjunction with the aperture lock. I let TV set the aperture and then I lock it off.
As for focus. I keep the camera in manual focus and use the push autofocus button when I want to focus.
Why don't I just go manual all the time? Because I find this way is quicker and I consequently get more usable material.
It also leaves me with more time to concentrate on framing (I always use a Bebob Zoe lanc controller), sound, lighting and running an interview (if that's what I am doing).

Heres a question for those that use the "A" mode. I thought that under this setting the camera contolled everything but you still had the option to chage the settings. Lets say you manually add more light while in theis setting, wont the camera just change it back on its own? Same for the reset of the settings that it controls. What keeps the camera from making its own adjustment once you make a change?

Yes, I am going to join a 12-step program, the first step is admitting you use the auto setting, and facing the ridicule :)....Under rapidly changing conditions I find keeping things simple works best for me... I'd like to quote from another thread, what Vasco Dones said in a similar context:

"You see, Brian, my one-man-band experiments showed me
that working in solo mode is all about mastering the fine art of making compromises,
which translates into 'minimizing the likelihood of badly screwing things up'. Really."

There are always conditions where you make changes -- higher shutter speed, sky enhancement, manual focus (well, I do use that a lot), manual white balance, all those tools, but I start out as simply as possible so I can watch the situation...in news we often have to watch our backs as well as our image..pray for me, I work in Miami....//Battle Vaughan

Heres a question for those that use the "A" mode. I thought that under this setting the camera contolled everything but you still had the option to chage the settings. Lets say you manually add more light while in theis setting, wont the camera just change it back on its own? Same for the reset of the settings that it controls. What keeps the camera from making its own adjustment once you make a change?

"A" mode controls apperture and shutter and, optionally, gain if you put the gain toggle switch to auto. I strongly recommend that you control gain manually. Shooting 50i or 25f, it will try to keep shutter at 1/50 (I guess it uses 1/60 for 60i & 30f) until apperture reaches f9.2 when it will increase the shutter speed. Within it's limits, it's quite smart and gets a good exposure 90% of the time. Unfortunately, the camera won't show you the settings it is using. You need to press the Exposure Lock button to see them. I try to remember to do that often, when lining up a shot. That's also how you over-ride the auto settings. When you press Exposure Lock you gain full manual control, starting with the settings chosen by A.

I feel no shame in admiting that I use "A" quite a lot, sometimes with AE shift (chosen from the menu). It works well so long as you understand its limitations. In particular, be careful to choose an ND setting that keeps the apperture below about f5.6 - f8. This does two things: reduces colour fringes and distortion, and maintains a constant shutter speed.

My second most common set-up is Tv with either 1/120 (in good light) or 1/25th (in poor light) shutter. Indeed, Tv mode and Exposure Lock is just like full manual, with the option of going back to auto exposure any time you choose. By the way, in poor light, I use "black stretch" and a slower shutter before I start adding gain.

If you are fixed (e.g using a tripod, sat in a grandstand, etc.) but you are following a moving subject over a long distance, perhaps in and out of shadow, the auto-exposure modes can track the changes in exposure better than I can, and without the risk of jogging the camera when changing apperture, etc., which is especially important when zoomed in a long way.

Likewise, the auto-focus on the XH-A1 is pretty reliable in most situations, and certainly more accurate than I am when on the run. In difficult situations (low contrast or distracting objects in foreground), I use manual focus with the "push focus" option, or just set the lens to infinity - provided I'm not zoomed in more than about 75% and the apperture is not wide-open.

I have never tried the extremes of "M" nor the "Easy" (green box) mode. I'm happy to delegate some functions, but only on my own terms!

Great post Mark, I actually picked up a lot of good information. You mentione using the "Black Stetch" option when shooting in low light. What is this? I am not famlier withthe term or the option. Is it a seting witin the camera?

Heres a question for those that use the "A" mode. I thought that under this setting the camera contolled everything but you still had the option to chage the settings. Lets say you manually add more light while in theis setting, wont the camera just change it back on its own? Same for the reset of the settings that it controls. What keeps the camera from making its own adjustment once you make a change?


I shoot in A mode quite often with Exposure Lock. I use the A mode and then when you press the exposure lock you get the aperture and shutter readings on the lcd. You can adjust either or both or add gain and still know you are within a stop or two of the cameras auto setting.

I also use it in TV mode when I need to maintain a good shutter speed of about 125-150 indoors with a lot of daylight coming in. (Horse shows) and then I can adjust the aperture and gain to make sure I have enough light for the shutter speed.

Generally you don't want the shutter speed changing during singe clip. The TV mode allows you to fix the shutter and the camera will control the apperture. Also, with a quick push of the AE Lock you go into full manual. I usually let the camera control a few things as possible. Under spots (I shoot a lot of recitals and stage shows) it will tend to overexpose the bright areas so that the darker areas come out. Also, since the auto exposure tries to maintain an average level, you loose the changes in lighting that the LD and director intended to be seen.

After some practice it really isn't that hard to get use to shooting in manual. The controls on the A1 are very well placed and the camera is really laid out to shoot in manual mode. the biggest challenge is focusing due to the small lcd.

Under good lighting conditions the A1's auto mode does a pretty good job but when lighting isn't ideal, the camera's auto mode doesn't yield very good results. One of the main reasons I see for buying a camera like the A1 over say an HV40 is to get the manual controls. In fact, if I were in a situation where I just had to pick up a camera, turn it on and shoot, say I were driving along and saw a UFO, I'd opt to pull out my HV20.

My second most common set-up is Tv with either 1/120 (in good light) or 1/25th (in poor light) shutter.
Hi Mark
Why do you use 1/120 instead of 1/50 in good light?

WOW! Thanks for all of the excellent information! As far as the whole Auto/Manual debate, I can see the benefit in both under different circumstances. However, Focussing manually isnt really an option for "most" of the shooting we will be doing. For much of the shooting the camera will be attached to the outside of a vehicle via the Microdolly Suction Mount. Dont get me wrong, we will be doing other types of shooting. But with no crew AT ALL other than myself, shooting auto may have to be the norm. Please, keep the information coming! I have learned a tremendous amount today by reading these posts!

Thanks again,

Mike

Seem like theres not that much difference between the easy mode and the automatic mode, since it seems that alot of people let the camemra do most of the work while in auto mode. Wile in manual mode, can you still use the auto focus? Normally when I'm in manual I control everything. I'm still getting to know the camera.

Seem like theres not that much difference between the easy mode and the automatic modeActually there's a big difference between these two modes. In Easy mode, there's no manual anything. Even if you set the autofocus switch to manual, it will still function in auto mode. Same thing with the AGC switch... gain is always auto in Easy mode. Image stabilization is always on in Easy mode; it can't be turned off, therefore Easy mode should be avoided when shooting from a tripod.

However, in Auto mode, you can override any of these functions and have manual gain, manual focus, etc. It offers much more freedom than Easy mode, but it also requires more thinking than Easy mode.

Wile in manual mode, can you still use the auto focus? Yes. Autofocus is controlled by a slide switch on the side of the camera, not by the program mode dial (the one exception here is Easy mode -- autofocus is always on in Easy mode no matter how the AF slide switch is set).

i'm surprissed that you actuall admit shooting in the 'A" mode. There's nothing at all wrong with shooting in Auto mode, and more folks use it regularly than you might realize, including many pros. I strongly recommend it, especially for beginners, because more attention can be paid to actually composing and framing the shot. The camera does a fine job in Auto mode.

Heres a question for those that use the "A" mode... What keeps the camera from making its own adjustment once you make a change?When shooting in Auto mode, press the Exp. Lock button on the left side of the camera. This will stop the camera from changing its exposure settings automatically. Additionally, in "A" mode with Exp. Lock activated, the camera is now in your full manual control and you can set the exposure to whatever you want. Press the Exp. lock button again to return to Auto mode.

Does anyone have thoughts about the relative merits of shooting in A mode as opposed to shooting in TV mode?
I've been using TV mode together with the push autofocus and exposure lock buttons, so the camera is effectively working in manual but setting focus and exposure is faster because you are getting the camera to make these settings for you when you operate these buttons.
There doesn't effectively seem to be any difference working this way in either A mode or TV mode.
Am I missing a trick here?

Does anyone have thoughts about the relative merits of shooting in A mode as opposed to shooting in TV mode?
I've been using TV mode together with the push autofocus and exposure lock buttons, so the camera is effectively working in manual but setting focus and exposure is faster because you are getting the camera to make these settings for you when you operate these buttons.
There doesn't effectively seem to be any difference working this way in either A mode or TV mode.
Am I missing a trick here?

For me the difference would be if you need to maintain a certain shutter speed or not. for example I posted that when I am shooting horse shows indoors (there is relatively good lighting) I try to maintain a shutter speed of a minimum 125-150. this will allow for smoother motion and some decent slo mo if required. So by being in TV mode I set the shutter and the camera can adjust the iris. if i need to add gain I usually only go to +3.
If I adjusted the shutter speed like this in Auto mode with exposure lock the iris would not change and I might be underexposed.

If shutter speed is not critical I will go to Auto mode and if I want to adjust for lighting I will hit exposure lock and adjust the iris for a touch more or less light w/o effecting the shutter speed.

Once you understand it just try some different things and when you see the results on the computer you'll understand what you did. For me it is the same as digital photography. If you use auto mode and press exposure lock the camera will show you the current settings. If you need to adjust for light or speed from these settings and dont stray more than 1-2 stops you should still get some decent footage.

Play around and try different settings.

If I am doing some landscape type shooting, like a still camera, I might set the camera to AV (aperture value) so I can use a fairly large aperture to get some slight out of focus background closeups and let the camera set the shutter speed. it will also tell you if you need to add the built-in neutral density filter ( I believe it is 2 stops and 5 stops).

Or if i want a deeper depth of field set it the 7-8 range so everything stays nice and crisp.

Thanks for the tips Chris. This has turned into a great thread.

Battle, i'm surprissed that you actuall admit shooting in the 'A" mode. Seems like a lot of XHA1 users only use the manual setting. I still use the easy mode and I find that it works just fine for me. Now I should also state that I am usually shooting under very controlled conditions with good lighting. Do you think theres that much of a differece between the "A" and easy mode as it relates to picture quality? Also, thanks for the advice that you've given me on some of my other threads. In case you have'nt noticed i'm new to the xha1.

I am the first to admit I am still very much a learner when it comes to videography but this snobbery about manual over auto reminds me of the mid 1970's (my days in still photography) when 'professionals' (like me) would turn their noses at people who used 35mm, then late 70's/80's when we all went to 35mm, we'd turn our noses at people who used automatic settings - again, until we realised that actually...you could!

As 'professionals' you are perhaps photographing something for someone who thinks you can do it better than they can - that's all you need to know when you're selling your service to the public or even corporate end. The fact that you take time to compose and edit (or in stills world 'frame') means that your end result will always look better than the general public can do.

Auto v manual - yes, OK so if you put your video anorak on and study the books and play with the knobs, you could get a better picture and sound in various ways but..... are your viewers really going to notice? - no. You are actually just pleasing your own technical know-how

good info...thanks everyone

Agreed. HDV for sure. 60i makes sense since it sounds like you'll be shooting wild. Progressive adds some complexity. Not a lot and easily handled if you're experienced in it.

Can't agree with using automatic. Too many variables controlled by the camera, including gain. The camera may be smart but I don't like it choosing gain for me. The autofocus may be brilliant, but I cannot comment since I've never used it.

Also, I'd go with the factory preset. It'll be easier to push around in post and will likely be more forgiving in the wide variety of situations you'll be shooting in.

I agree 100%...at risk of sounding harsh here, why do people by a camera of the A1 caliber but use auto? Why not just stick with a conusmer point and shoot?
Manual mode allows you to control everything. Understand Exposure!!! Get to know it and you will be a better Videographer for it. In my opinion using Auto on the A1 is like these people you see capturing treasured moments using a cell phone camera, why bother?
As for the A1's auto focus ability, it is fair to good depending on the subject but there again the situation may require manual focus as opposed to auto focus.
I am sure auto mode has it's uses but it allows the user to not learn and grow, but be dependant on allowing the camera to do the work for us. Just my opinion here and food for thought.

I agree 100%...at risk of sounding harsh here, why do people by a camera of the A1 caliber but use auto? Why not just stick with a conusmer point and shoot?
Manual mode allows you to control everything. Understand Exposure!!! Get to know it and you will be a better Videographer for it. In my opinion using Auto on the A1 is like these people you see capturing treasured moments using a cell phone camera, why bother?
As for the A1's auto focus ability, it is fair to good depending on the subject but there again the situation may require manual focus as opposed to auto focus.
I am sure auto mode has it's uses but it allows the user to not learn and grow, but be dependant on allowing the camera to do the work for us. Just my opinion here and food for thought.
Sorry Tim, you do sound a little harsh.

"Manual mode allows you to control everything." True.

"Understand Exposure!!! Get to know it and you will be a better Videographer for it." Sound advice, but no need for the exclamation marks.

"In my opinion using Auto on the A1 is like these people you see capturing treasured moments using a cell phone camera, why bother?" Now we disagree.

The missing piece of advice here is "get to know your camera." Modern cameras can help you a lot, provided you understand when you can leave it up to them and when to step in and take control yourself. Unless you are working on a well-controlled set, with lighting, sound and action doing what the director tells them, and you have the chance for several re-takes, you will often find the need to concentrate on one or two aspects yourself (always framing, maybe focus and DOF, maybe exposure...) and leave the camera to do the routine things. If you only ever use manual mode, then you are only using half the camera. I'm not suggesting that everyone should use "easy" or "green box" mode (unless there's a good reason, of course). "A" and "Tv" are as usable as Auto Focus or auto audio level - a boon in some circumstances, acceptable compromise in others, and sometimes quite unsuitable.

Besides, you can frame and shoot a dozen images on a phone-camera in the time it takes to unpack and set up a "proper" camera in full manual mode, by which time the moment may have passed - even phone cams have their uses sometimes ;-)

Hi Mark
Why do you use 1/120 instead of 1/50 in good light?
I've used it to cut down the blurring of fast moving subjects. Any faster than 1/120 looks too stuttery, but sometimes it's helpful. There's a comment above that its helpful when doing slow motion. Also, in very bright light, the camera's maximum ND might not be enough to keep the apperture below f8, in which case you either have to add an external ND filter (or maybe a polariser?) in front of the lens or move to 1/120.

You mentioned using the "Black Stetch" option when shooting in low light. What is this? I am not famliar with the term or the option. Is it a seting within the camera?
In the camera's "customize" menu (I think), you can tailor a large number of image variables and save them in "presets", numbered CP1 - CP9 (more if you save them to the SD card). There are lots of threads on the subject... Some of these settings are quite advanced, and although you can make amazing changes to the image you record, you can seriously mess it up too, if you over-do things. However, some are pretty straight forward and worth exploring.

The "black" level adjusts the way the camera responds to the darkest parts of the image. "Press" makes the dark bits darker while "stretch" makes them a little lighter. In poor light, black stretch can help to reveal details in shadows. However, if you are also using gain, then it can make the noise more noticable, since it's the dark parts of the image where gain is amplifying the lowest signal. HTH.

Thanks Mark.

Sorry Tim, you do sound a little harsh.

"Manual mode allows you to control everything." True.

"Understand Exposure!!! Get to know it and you will be a better Videographer for it." Sound advice, but no need for the exclamation marks.

"In my opinion using Auto on the A1 is like these people you see capturing treasured moments using a cell phone camera, why bother?" Now we disagree.

The missing piece of advice here is "get to know your camera." Modern cameras can help you a lot, provided you understand when you can leave it up to them and when to step in and take control yourself. Unless you are working on a well-controlled set, with lighting, sound and action doing what the director tells them, and you have the chance for several re-takes, you will often find the need to concentrate on one or two aspects yourself (always framing, maybe focus and DOF, maybe exposure...) and leave the camera to do the routine things. If you only ever use manual mode, then you are only using half the camera. I'm not suggesting that everyone should use "easy" or "green box" mode (unless there's a good reason, of course). "A" and "Tv" are as usable as Auto Focus or auto audio level - a boon in some circumstances, acceptable compromise in others, and sometimes quite unsuitable.

Besides, you can frame and shoot a dozen images on a phone-camera in the time it takes to unpack and set up a "proper" camera in full manual mode, by which time the moment may have passed - even phone cams have their uses sometimes ;-)


Definitely a need for exclamation Mark, not sure where your head is but learning exposure is "getting to know your camera", that goes without saying and is the difference between
so-so captures and quality images. By learning exposure you will learn how to set shutter, aperture, and other settings needed to properly expose based on the conditions you are shooting in, thereby getting to know your camera.

At no time did I imply to "only ever use manual mode as you referred to above, I did however say that learning exposure was crucial. I often times shoot in TV, AV, but prefer Manual when I desire a certain result that the camera just can not determine on it's own. But at no time will I shoot in Auto or Easy.

As for the cell phone camera? Surely you do not think that a 2 or 4 plus mega pixel phone cam is suitable for quality captures such as a childs first steps or fast moving wildlife at a distance do you? "Honey look, he's walking... grab the cell phone" C'mon...I mean really? They are so-so at best as far as the cell phone images I have seen thus far. I guess it boils down to a persons definition of quality huh Mark?

As for your mention of studio and sets? Retakes and the like? If you have a look at my site you will see the conditions I shoot in. It is about as non-controlled as it gets. All my images are 100 % wild, no Zoos or controlled enviroments. I have no problems setting up my gear and getting the images I am after before they have passed, and then some, using what you refer to as a "proper camera in full manual mode". I would never dream of depending on my camera to determine a proper exposure as the conditions are constantly changing by the second. Nor would I rely on a cell phone to capture anything of quality. To even imply that a cell cam can capture something of quality or detail, something such as the eye of a bird in flight for example is rediculous.

While I forewarned of my possible harsness, I make no appologies for my opinions based on facts and learning experiences so if the harsness offends you, well....it is what it is.

In closing I will add...I hear the cell phone ring all day while out shooting but it never gets picked up even for it's intended use, to communicate, let alone to capture images.

I've used it to cut down the blurring of fast moving subjects. Any faster than 1/120 looks too stuttery, but sometimes it's helpful. There's a comment above that its helpful when doing slow motion. Also, in very bright light, the camera's maximum ND might not be enough to keep the apperture below f8, in which case you either have to add an external ND filter (or maybe a polariser?) in front of the lens or move to 1/120.
Hi Mark
Many thanks for the explanation.
Very helpful and clear.
Richard

The "black" level adjusts the way the camera responds to the darkest parts of the image. "Press" makes the dark bits darker while "stretch" makes them a little lighter. In poor light, black stretch can help to reveal details in shadows. However, if you are also using gain, then it can make the noise more noticable, since it's the dark parts of the image where gain is amplifying the lowest signal. HTH.


Hey Mark - now that's the kind of explanation I like. Simple layman's terms. "makes the dark bits darker" :-) Thanks for that.

Now, can anyone out there either give real world explanations for the other 22 adjustable recording specs in the Custom Preset section of the A1, OR point me to where I may find them? I've been looking all over this forum, and elsewhere on the net, and Mark's post in this thread is the only thing like that I've found.

Generally, I'd like to know what those do, and the best Canon comes up with isn't so good. For instance, Canon says that PED brightens or darkens the dark areas, while SET brightens or darkens the shadow areas. WHAT is the difference? Also, what is Horizontal Detail Frequency (HDF) - the frequency (how often it occurs) of Horizontal Detail? More questions abound. I don't get it. Any Settings for Dummies out there?

Specifically, here's my immediate concern. I'm picking up a DP job on a project from another DP (multiple shoot documentary). He shot the first shoot with a rented A1, and it looks great. Rich colors, black blacks, no noise/grain - solid work. Then, the director bought an A1, shot the 2nd shoot, and the colors are dull, slightly washed out, blah, drab.

The rental house claims to reset ALL ALL ALL settings to manufacturer settings between rentals.
The former DP says he never messes with any of the GAM, KNE, PED, SET, etc. settings, and that he doesn't even know how, really.
The director says same thing.

SO, why do the 2 sets of footage look so different? If the answer is that DP got exposures right and director didn't, I might believe that - but then I took the 2nd camera (owned by director) out, myself, and shot 2 days of b-roll and testing (I left camera on manufacturers settings), and still the same drab dull coloring (and, yeah, I know how to nail my exposures ;-) ).

Anybody got any idears on what I can do to try to match the rich coloring of original DP?

THANKS.

by the way, we're shooting 10801p24 HDV.