I think it's pretty load. If I remember correctly it is rated at 39 dB
(which was 37 for the X1). I haven't been able to seriously
watch a movie with it yet so I don't know. It also depends where
you place it I guess.

A small test reveiled I will probably have to place it very near
to the couch to not blow up the picture too much (ie, my wall
will be too small). I'm not sure about where to place it yet or
if I'm going to change the layout of my room or not. Hopefully
I will have some time next weekend to fiddle with that.

Will be hard to give back indeed <g>

Yeah, Chris, it's fun having all that stuff. I've always loved it since I was a kid and in fact used to sell it (was manager of a stereo store in New Haven). Of course, I use some of it for work so I can always justify a purchase.

On the subject of cables, I would be very cautious about the claims made on behalf of exotic, high-dollar cables. Double-blind listening tests have shown that there is no audible difference between ultra-high-cost cables and conventional ones of appropriate quality and diameter. You have to ask yourself why you never see the exotic-materials cables in pro systems, instead seeing the good old standards like Switchcraft, Neutrik, Proco, Canare, Belden, Rapco, to name a few. These are all made of conventional materials with high-quality construction. (Of course, the size and multiplicity of cables found in pro systems are enough to run up the $$$). That being said, go with a quality-built cable from a good manufacturer.

And there's nothing wrong with gold-plated connecting surfaces; the corrosion resistance of the plating helps with longevity: a 10-year-old gold plug still looks brand new and conducts perfectly. But don't be fooled there either; it is so easy for a cheap offshore manufacturer to skimp on materials (thin wire, flimsy metal contacts, weak plastic plug bodies, etc.) and gold-plate the plugs for a few cents so it LOOKS like a quality cable.

One of the best things you can do with respect to cables is to keep the run as SHORT as possible. With line-level cables (the RCAs between VCR, CD player and amplifier, etc.) the longer you go the more chance there is of hum/noise pickup.** With speaker lines, if you double the length, you virtually have to double the diameter ($$) to get the same power handling capacity.

That's just my 2¢ worth.

[I]** One of the big distinctions between consumer and commercial audio is typically that consumer gear uses RCA (unbalanced), while pro uses XLR (balanced) connections, which gives you the luxury of going hundreds of feet with no discernible signal loss. Also, what's considered "line level" for pro is 14dB higher than for consumer, giving you a hotter signal to work with. But you can certainly manage the signal with consumer gear if you know the right things. Much has been written about this, check out one of Jay Rose's volumes if you are interested in learning about this in more detail.

+++++++++++++++

Hey Rob, have you thought about hanging the projector from the ceiling?

regarding cables (which can spawn another thread altogether) it's pretty easy. just get any brand that is magnetically shielded so you don't get radio interference and it'll be as good as monster, which is over-rated as a brand. i have acoustic research and they're cheaper and just as good as monster.

True, it is necessary to use shielded cable for input-level (not speaker) connections. That's not about brand, but the type of cable. However. there is a difference in the amounts of shielding coverage, with 95% considered good. It takes metal to make a shield, and more metal is better, whether braid, spiral wire, foil, or a combination. Cheap manufacturers use less metal.

Without endorsing specific brands, i agree AR cables are good, Monster are good but very expensive (and sometimes annoyingly thick), and any of the pro brands will work reliably (some have lifetime warranties).

If you buy a 65¢ cable, it may work OK today but break down at the worst moment. You are right, this COULD spawn another whole thread.

As for getting the video signal to the projector, the higher frequencies involved make safeguarding signal integrity more challenging than for audio frequencies. The better A/V cables actually use RG-59/U (the same kind of coaxial cable used for cross-wiring cable TV) for better matching and less loss. Of course, I have also successfully used S-Video runs of up to 100 feet with good cable, and similar lengths with VGA (for presentation graphics from laptop to projector).

on a related note to front projectors and cables:

since most front projectors will be mounted at a pretty fair distance away from its source, how far can DVI signals travel without degradation? i mean it IS digital after all not analog like component or S-Video.

I have no idea, but I've thought about it in the following way.

Either of these will apply: I will put the projector at the back end of my room. My DVD shelfs are there as well, so why not put my DVD player there as well? More easy to put a DVD in that way as well. Very short line from player to projector. The audio is going over coaxial SPDIF anyway so that shouldn't be a problem for most rooms (I had no problem with such a long cable for audio myself => and that was a CRAPPY cable). The only problem will probably be that the projector projects too large of an image, time will tell.
The other option is to put it much closer and with the X2 I can probably mount it "under" a table infront of the couch. It projects UP so it will be the correct hight. And it will probably create just a large enough image as well. In this case my receiver (and the place where my DVD player currently is) and DVD player will only be something like 6 feet away (1.5 meters) or so. Shouldn't be a problem for S-Video / DVI me thinks?Ofcourse it will be very easy to put ALL of the equipment in the
back if I decide to put the projector there. I don't need my
receiver to be in front of me. Don't change it while watching a
movie anyway.

Hey 6 feet is a piece of cake! (that's the length of a typical S-VHS cable) And hey, you can still adjust the receiver by aiming the remote back over your shoulder! :-)

most IR remotes you can bounce off of front project screen and it'll reach the back no problem.

I did a bit more testing and with my current room layout I probably
can't get it to work easy. The projector under the table is no
option, too close to the screen and just a bit too low. I had
it on a camera case this weekend which was the right height
and just beside the couch. Ofcourse this projected too far to
the side. I'll have to do some more testing I guess...

Mike, you're the resident cable/electronics expert. Very good info, thanks. I'll look for those other brands before having to resort to Monster.

Not sure how to run the cables, and at what lengths yet. Right now it isn't the greatest looking installation. Any good strategies on how to conceal them? I'm thinking of buying some cable runners that stick to the wall, but I'm uneasy that it may peel the paint if I ever have to remove it.

Rob, you may have to invest in a ceiling mount for the projector. I decided to mount mine permanently and the angle is great. The projector is out of the way as well. Of course, you'll have to move DVD equipment and so on around. Now that I'm aiming for a permanent installation, I may purchase a screen that I can pull down from the ceiling....

I've thought about ceiling mounting as well, but that's probably
not an option for various reasons. Oh well, I'll figure it out in the
end sometime. For now it works for the little time I have available
to actually watch something.

The new Panasonic ..AE700 looks pretty good! Does anybody have any first hand experience with that one?

Projector Central has.
see:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/panasonic_ae700_sanyo_z3.htm

And for my part, I'd like to ask if anyone has personal experience with the Optoma EZ Pro models?

ive just sold my infocus x2 and im now looking for something better. its always attached through my pc where i watch dvd tv games surfing editing etc.

i love the x2 but im looking for something with a higher resolution as iim aquiring a 10 wide screen. :)
im looking toward a panasonic PT-AE700U Projector

the panasonic is a much lower lumen count but a higher resolution.

will this make my screen look darker when i have pc on or just when watching dvds etc

After a lot of looking, I wound up with the HP 6120 -
no big complaints either. Blacks are black, colour good,
contrast okay in ambient and pretty nice in the dark.

Fry's had an open box for 1399. nice.

I'm really needing a screen tho now.
If anyone in Vancouver knows where to pick up
a DaLite Model B, the 94" 2.5, lemme know

linked off of projectorcentral:

http://www.mountsandmore.com/cats/All/Projector-Mounts-and-Screens/Screens-Manual/0C159.htm

imho, you can't really tell a diff between expensive & cheap screens. but that's just me.

Hmm - a good screen makes the image to me.

I've left theatres and not gone back due to bad screens-
but I was a projectionist for years so pickier than normal.

The tear thats patched and left there,
that soda pop stain, the wrinkle - I can't let it go.

a couple hyundies for a screen is no big if you consider what
the film itself cost -

now to find a local one where I don't have to pay
huge shipping that doubles the cost. GST is bad enough.

Yes, a damaged screen is a bummer (distracting)...presumably buying new, even a lower-priced model, would avoid that problem.

Tough break about that GST, eh? I don't suppose the feds would let you get away with smuggling one in from Seattle, y'know take it out of the box, swaddle it in gaffers tape, make it look used? :-)

Bingo. Do it all the time for ....

Oh. We never had this conversation.
Ahem.

Heh heh.

Hey, what a nice day today!

:-)

it was, of course, too soon to crow about the new projector.

worked fine in the old location, but at the new digs w/ a 10m
(30 ft) cable to it, there is pronounced light and dark 'banding'
scrolling bottom to top - almost like old helical scan flop.

Its all dig, so its got to be refresh/Hz or something?
checked connections, RTM again, checked online, no mentions -

Anyone run into this? Is it AC interference?
[lack of] cable shielding, grounding?

thx/TM

just wanted to let ya'll know about two sony front projectors:

-Qualia 004 is rated to be 1920x1080

-SRX-R110 is a commercially rated to be 4096 x 2160

Ah yes, a lovely projector (Qualia 004) for a mere 25 grand.

And 4096 x 2160 (Cinema HD) on the SRX... Ay mami, ay papi!!!!

www.tvtechnolgy.com says:
"The SRX-R110 4K projector is slated to sell for $80,000 (plus $15,000 for the lens) when released in January."

Maybe after I get my tax refund... (grin)

but it didn't say anything about 1080progressive for the qualia 004.

and the 4k, is that progressive?

Uh, don't know if progressive, but sure is expensive!

Oh, BTW, what's up, a Boston dude saying yall??? Are you actually from Crawford, Texas? :-)

Go Patriots!

just trying to get down with the cowboys =).

yesh, i hope pats win superbowl this year, it'll make redsox's win even better.

Yee Haa! ride'em cowboy!

Yes, looking good against the Steelers.

As for the Sox, congrats on that, I'm closer to NYC so I'm a Yanks fan, but you guys earned it. (Anyway, 26 World Series wins is a little ostentatious, right?)

Anyway, keep us abreast of new projectors in the sub-millionnaire market. :-)

I'm betting on something cool in the DLP realm real soon.

cheers
m

i was just @local staples and saw really really small projectors. do these mini FPs do as well as their big bros?

If you are talking the really itty-bitty projectors, you have traditionally paid a premium for the convenience of tucking one in your briefcase, although it's getting better. They (Staples) do have one "normal size" projector that looks fairly interesting, the Optoma EZ Pro 750. It's DLP, XGA, 1600 lumens, 600:1 contrast and has a 3-year warranty and costs $1499. Of course, I have never tried one to see how it performs in real life, and have no idea of its quality or reliability. Maybe there are some real-world users who can comment on it.

One thing I find unappealing about almost all of them is the excruciating price of replacement bulbs, like $400-500! There was one exception that I recall, I think it was a CTX brand that used a simple reflector halogen bulb that you can get at Home Depot for about $15. But I don't know if this brand is available anymore or whether it is any good. The specs looked pretty good for the money.

well aren't they ALL $400+?

Well, ALMOST all of them. I can't remember the model of CTX that I found which used that plain halogen bulb. And I still know very little about Optoma or CTX and wish I could hear from some actual users.

i'd like to know as well.

I would definitely seek out some reviews and or user feedback before diving in here. The less expensive projectors are probably geared more towards PowerPoint presentations in the board room. They could have issues with scaling DV to their native resolutions and also might handle motion poorly. Brightness and contrast ratios are not the only things to consider. Also think about how loud the fan is. If at all possible, "audition" a few different models using some of your actual video.

I think you really want to look for units that are designed for "home theatre," and Staples may be the wrong place for that. Haven't ever looked there however so I'm just speculating...

Yeah, I'm trying real hard to find solid info from those sources. And to me, user feedback would be more credible than the manufacturer's own words or "puff piece" blurbs written by dealers looking to make the sale, or even reviews in magazines which carry advertising for these manufacturers.

Actually I am not really looking for a home theatre projector, at least not as its primary application. Using it for PowerPoint would be just the beginning, extending to use for playing back industrial & promotional videos at conferences and other gatherings, for instance. Handling of motion would, of course, be essential. It would be basically an all-around A/V workhorse, and my parameters would be quite different from those of a home-entertainment aficionado. Roadability is a major hot button for me, whereas the home projectionist would need extra-long lamp life for it to be practical for an entertainment center...two different ways of looking at reliability. Fan noise would be usually drowned out by sound reinforcement systems, thus a secondary issue. Brightness and contrast are important and easy to quantify for comparison shopping (and I wonder how easy to "lie" about), but image clarity and color handling are critical too. I wish it were easier to find ways to demo this stuff, and Staples may very well be a poor place to facilitate that.

Thanks for jumping in, Boyd. Hey! I just edited some footage of a lyric spinto soprano singing a tenor aria ("Nessun Dorma" from Turandot)...quite a "b@llsy" performance! :-)

Maybe you should check out what your local A/V rental places handle? They would have a good handle on what is portable and travels well. Many of these places also do sales and might be inclined to let you do sort of a "shoot out" at their place with different units. You might pay a little more this way, but would probably have a better chance of being happy with the results. And you would also have a door to pound on if you weren't happy.

My (rather limited) experience has been with larger, more expensive projectors. We worked with a dealer/rental house/consultant that provided all these services under one roof. We were very happy in the end. My next project will involve doing video projections for Die Walkure on multiple screens for a company in South America, and this should be a challenge since I'm having a hard time getting specific info from the theatre down there.

Nessun Dorma became Pavarotti's signature piece in his "stadium concerts," which tended to cheapen it a little in my mind. But nevertheless it's a terrific aria and will always be one of my favorites.

Happy projector shopping, let us all know what you learn.

Larger, more expensive projectors? Yes, I should say so! I saw those Lightnings and Barcos you used on the Trovatore gig! A little out of my price range, to say nothing of trying to get all those 300-lb. projectors into my truck! Must be nice, though, to be able to fire up a whole opera house stage at 1600x1200.

I'll keep checking. Meanwhile, have a good show in S.A. I hope it's in Argentina where it's summer right now. :-)

"Wagner's music is better than it sounds."
--Mark Twain

<<<-- Originally posted by Mike Butler : have a good show in S.A. I hope it's in Argentina where it's summer right now. :-) -->>>

Ha, ha.... it is at Teatro Colon in Buenos Aires, but I don't go down there until June and then it will be winter there!

We also have a pair of NEC LCD-GT1150 3000 lumen projectors which we use for our title projections on a screen above the stage. These are really nice units - too bad they're always tied up projecting a narrow strip of text. Again, probably overkill and more expensive than you would need.

All this talk of high end projectors is making me feel like my Infocus X1 is outdated (because it is). Yet another item to upgrade.

Not to take away from this great forum, but for some of you who are looking for more user reviews of projectors and related topics check out the Audio-Video Science Forums (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/). Lots of info from Digital Media Servers, Theater Gaming, DVDs, screens, to HD setups, and of course those $25,000 and up projectors already mentioned.

Heh heh, me too...those ones Boyd is using are all, as he says, overkill and out-of-budget for me. Real fun to dream about though.

In this current market, I gotta think I should be able to find >2K lumens for <2K $, with decent rendering of standard TV video.

So, what is on your shopping list to replace the X1 (which was all the shiz when it first came out)?

<<<-- Originally posted by Christopher Go : and of course those $25,000 and up projectors already mentioned. -->>>

Actually the 10,000 lumen variety of projectors I've mentioned are in the $125,000 range... we spent $50,000 just to rent two of them for a month :-)

hmmm, yes, did I mention that those were a little pricey? Hey, even the $8k for that NEC is bad enough.

Gawd, I hate to rent...rent it twice, you coulda bought it. OK, maybe that formula is inaccurate for Boyd's Lightnings, but you get the idea. After seeing hotels charge $700 a day for a cheezy laptop projector, I started bringing our own.

I do believe that it pays to shop when considering rentals. I was quoted $700 per WEEK for a 3K lumen Sony or Toshiba by a local dealer, when the AV dept. of the venue was looking for $500 per DAY for a smaller unit of indeterminate brand.

I remember looking over a rental invoice where I wound up paying the selling price on a Shure SM-58 microphone...4 days @ $24 per day...could have walked into a dealer and BOUGHT one. The mixer rental was about 50% of purchase price. A handful of SM58s and a Mackie 1402vlzpro fit very nicely in my suitcase now.

Actually the 10,000 lumen variety of projectors I've mentioned are in the $125,000 range... we spent $50,000 just to rent two of them for a month :-) That's insane! Makes me want to cry.

I think before I get a new projector I want to get a new screen, one that comes down from the ceiling. The portable Da-lite one I have is great but now that I've found a permanent place for my projector and speakers, it's not so important. I'd rather have the convenience of a ceiling mounted screen. And there is that matter of needing a new matte box... the HD projector will have to wait.

Maybe Boyd could siphon off some of his budget to us two, what do you think, Mike? $1000 or so from $50,000 can't be missed! Joking of course, let us know how things turn out in South America, Boyd, sounds exciting.

Mike, agree with you about renting, sometimes it seems better to just out right and buy. Especially here in Hawaii, usually they have to order it in anyway, I might as well order it myself.

You're right, it's hard to find any bargains when renting. The whole thing is sort of counter-intuitive actually. Normally when we rent equipment (like our stage lights) we pay an initial high price for the first week, then reduced rates for additional weeks. That usually isn't true with projectors however.

The problem is that the primary rental market for the bigger units is corporate presentations at trade shows and such. These clients don't flinch at paying several thousand dollars a day since they don't need them for long and their budgets are large. Two years ago when we checked this out the going rate was about $5,000 a day for units in the 10,000 lumen range.

Since there's a pretty strong demand for these units, the A/V companies aren't eager to tie them up for long periods of time on an extended rental, and are not particularly inclined to give you much of a discount either. We actually felt that $50,000 was a very good deal in our case.

But I think the same holds true on a smaller scale for the less powerful projectors, like Mike says. Especially for hotels - we got a similar quote for an event that our PR people wanted to do at a pre-show lecture. They sort of have you by the you-know-whats in this case. Rather than go through the hassle of bringing your own projector (which some venues may not even allow) it's simpler for corporations to just budget the $700.

Perhaps this will start to change however since prices are really dropping fast on the small and medium sized units. Of course there's always the "next big thing," like that 8 foot plasma screen that Samsung demo'ed at CES. A good friend of mine designed the lighting for their booth and was telling me that Samsung's internal cost to build that prototype was $500,000!

Very well said, Boyd.

Of course, as for

<<<They sort of have you by the you-know-whats in this case. Rather than go through the hassle of bringing your own projector (which some venues may not even allow) it's simpler for corporations to just budget the $700.>>>

...been there, done that. And most clients just roll over (or bend over?) so the hotels are not expecting a customer that plays hardball. When informed that I am not allowed to bring, or that they will charge a special fee if I don't rent theirs, I remind them about the number of rooms they are renting to our attendees, the banquet services we are purchasing, to say nothing of the bar revenue generated by attendees after hours, and get them to see the "big picture." Oh yes, and the fact that we do inevitably wind up renting some stuff, just not everything. Hey, I can't bring a stack of EAW speakers and a rack of QSC amplifiers on the plane, and a fastfold screen is a little bulky too. :-)

GOOD NEWS! a poor schmo like me plunked down some serious cash for a nice front projector. i got the BenQ PB6200 after months of research =). got a manual pulldown Da-Lite Screen. i luv watching classic films on the BIG SCREEN! it really makes me feel like i'm back in the golden age of cinema =).

here are some pics:

http://fongunlimited.com/htpc/screen.jpg

http://fongunlimited.com/htpc/

How much was it?

I'm in the midst of a home remodel which includes the home theatre I've been dreaming of for countless years...the major components are the Marantz VP12S4L long throw DLP projector and an 8 foot motorized Stewart screen. Both are being built in so that they will be all but invisible when not in use as the room is not dedicated for home theater. Can't wait...!

nice charles!

the BenQ i got was bought from a vendor from pricegrabber.com. i think it was pagecomputers.com. terrible shopping experience but good front projector product. i think it was $1090 delivered. i paid for overnight delivery because that's how anything $1k+ should be purchased. it makes sense when you think about it because UPS/FedEx/DHL they all bang packages around. the less time spent in handling the better. i'm sure you guys know from buying DV cams that it is true.

the screen i bought from mountandmore.com for roughly $190 for high contrast white matte 100" diagonal manual pull down. the entire metal enclosure for the screen measures roughly 89-90" wide. i have no room to pull it all the way down so i dunno what the measurements are vertically. eitherway i can only project 65-70" max because i only have a 11' long bedroom. very tiny but still works =).

now, perhaps i'm a bit picky but i was surprised at how much mpeg2 compression showed up when i first saw progressive DVD image. i mean i ignore it most of the time and concentrate on the story/audio/larger than life picture experience but when i get really, really picky i do notice it. when i tune 1080i or 720p it is TOTALLY different. for some strange reason i expected progressive DVD images (480p) to look like 720p... but alas it was not meant to be =). when i play t2 extreme edition through the computer (1080p) it looks very sharp on the FP. i KNOW that HD-DVD/BluRay will make helluva different on the big screen.

now that i'm totally spoiled by FP, i'm getting greedy again. i'm waiting for 1920x1080p native front projectors to come down from $18+k to $1,000. that's when you know cinema as you know it today will die =).

I'll have to save up for awhile to afford that Marantz pjtr...I do recall that I loved Marantz gear as far back as when I was a snot-nosed kid (that's a long time ago to put it mildly). Even at their lowest point when they were part of Superscope they were at least a little better than their competition. And in their good years they were right up there with McIntosh.