Hi all,

I just purchased a Shure FP-31 (no flaming), and am looking for a bag. I've been looking at the koala-1 (http://www.adorama.com/KAK1.html?searchinfo=kata%20koala&item_no=3) from kata and the petrol psmb (http://www.adorama.com/PSPSMB.html). Both good, but I'd like some alternatives in the same or lower price range. What do you guys use? What can I get away with? What features do I really need in a mixer bag as opposed to ones that are just nice to have?

Chris

I use a Koala Kata 4
KTVD114 Kata Koala-4 Mixer Case (http://www.adorama.com/KAK4.html?searchinfo=koala%20kata&item_no=1)

For either my 702T or my 302. Great bag IMO, includes a waist and neck strap to stop it lolloping on the move. Plenty of room for my NP-65 and a spare. I keep tarpaulin handy in there too in case the wet weather gets really severe and I need to cover up quick. It's not a particularly versatile bag though - if you don't like the way it's configured then there's not much you can do to change it. Keeps it simple. I like it.

What I look for as "needs" are comfort, protection/weatherproofness and durability. I like the cable routing, zips, hooks, on the bag.

Are you aware of something that would hold both a 302 and a 702? Or would they both fit in the Koala-4?

They won't both fit in the Koala 4 (I've tried).

For bag work where I need mixer and recorder I use a Petrol Pegz 4 which has ample room (possibly a little too much). Usually though, if I'm mixing and recording I'll be cart based.

In the beginning of last year I got myself a KATA SUNDO-1 to put my PSC DV Promix 3 in.

KATA SUNDO-1 Audio Organizer (http://www.kata-bags.com/product.asp?p_Id=68&Version=Video)

Now I (actually my soundman) can carry the mixer, wireless receivers, microphones, headphone, cables, spare discs and a powerfull V-Lock battery to operate the mixer in one bag. The OVH harness from KATA makes it very comfortable to wear this for a longer time.

Made a full switch from Portabrace to KATA last year and never regretted it!

Try to take some pictures of it if you like.

Are you aware of something that would hold both a 302 and a 702? Or would they both fit in the Koala-4?Jim, You might want to checkout Petrolz 302 bag. It holds my 302 and 744T--snugly yes, but it does do the job as long as you don't want to carry much else in the bag.

Hey Chris,
New Bags are probably going to cost more than the mixer you bought. I would check on the new offerings and then check Ebay to see if you can find a used one in good shape. Personally I like to have a bag which holds radio mic receivers, transmitters and the mixer with an external battery supply as a unit. I find the detachable hands free shoulder straps to be a godsend. Portabrace has modular set ups where you can add external bags to your mixer or buy an organizer. The advantage of the organizer is you can switch to another mixer in the future without buying a new bag as long as it is not much different in size. Ie the mono FP-31 is about the same size as the SD 302 Stereo mixer. HTH

Peter,

Thanks much for the lead. I'll give one a try

Daniel,

Thanks for the comparison. I see a lot pertaining to the 302, since it's a much more popular mixer. Good to know those bags will work for my fp-31. I'm also interested in power supplies for my mixer. Do I need one? What options do I have both big and small budget?

Thanks for the responses guys. All good info.

Chris

Daniel,

Thanks for the comparison. I see a lot pertaining to the 302, since it's a much more popular mixer. Good to know those bags will work for my fp-31. I'm also interested in power supplies for my mixer. Do I need one? What options do I have both big and small budget?

Thanks for the responses guys. All good info.

Chris

You could get longer times between battery changes with an external supply. Are you talking about for just the mixer or do you need to supply a recorder and/or wireless as well?

By far the most popular seems to be an NP-1 style Lithium Ion rechargeable. Pricey though - the batteries are about $200 each and a charger holding two of them runs about $400. Power cable to use with your mixer runs about $50.

Well the spec sheet on the fp-31 states that it will run for 8 hours on 3 9v batteries under "normal conditions", whatever they deem that to be. I use an h4 to record atm, and I'm guessing those batts will run for a while as well. I'm not supplying phantom power to any of my mics, I don't have any wireless units, and I'm not working 12-14 hour days on a set, so I'm guessing external power supply is not a necessary investment right now.

I'll put that cash toward a much needed light kit.

You could get longer times between battery changes with an external supply. Are you talking about for just the mixer or do you need to supply a recorder and/or wireless as well?

By far the most popular seems to be an NP-1 style Lithium Ion rechargeable. Pricey though - the batteries are about $200 each and a charger holding two of them runs about $400. Power cable to use with your mixer runs about $50.

there's no need to spend that kind of cash for battery power. my custom 24V system with 2 12V paks, and all the parts didn't go over $140 or so. your local batteries plus can build you a battery pak with whatever you need. my paks are based on 5/4 AA cells ( bigger AA cells ) NiMH that cost $50 ea. now I do have a PAG charger that will charge anything, so that wasn't a problem, the same place should be able to set you up with a charger. this will run my '33 with phantom on and 2 lectro 195's and bag light for a full day. just running on the mixer, it will run for at least 2 days.

that said, if the mixer wants 3 9V's, most likely they are in series, meaning its getting 36V's for the V in. then regulate it down to 24V or so. thats typical range value to get good performance from a preamp ciricut of average design. you might want to investigate what max V the external connection will take. if its 24V or so, I'd juice it that hot. sure mixers like hot external power.

however the problem is figuring out a charger, which is why I went with 2 12V paks. in series its 24 and makes the mixer happy, in parallel its easy to charge on any suitable charger. I've got this all handled with a "simple" 4P toggle switch. one position is charger ( bag power off ) and the other on. a 12V regular feeds the lectros & other 12V devices. a wire with a pin connector to the power box breaks out to 2 coaxial power plugs that go to the charger. all the power feeds in the bad are hardwired into the power box with one spare. its easy enough to add another if I ever need it.

I went with a petrol PEGZ 1. its a little bit tight, I'd get a PEGZ2 next time as I could not fit another wireless in if I wanted to. however headphones can live permentenly in the front compartment. the petrol stuff is totally configurable to just about anything. very very well thought out, but not something you can see from a picture. a bag can make or break your day, and the petrol stuff is WAY better then the portabrace stuff... way better

As promised, some pictures of my PSC DV Promix 3 in a KATA SUNDO-1 audio organizer.

Hi all,

I just purchased a Shure FP-31 (no flaming)

Chris

How are you liking the Shure FP-31? I was thinking about getting the FP-42 or 32. Any insight would be great.

Thanks
Nicole
www.myspace.com/misscc803

Actually, it's still on its way...

To be honest, I would like to have purchased a better unit, but I need a mixer for a coming gig and had neither the cash nor the time to save to get what I really want. My biggest concern with the FP-31 (and I think the 32 as well) is that it's a mono mixer. I think both the FP-33 and FP-42 are stereo, but don't quote me on that. The other issue I'm gonna have to deal with is using analog meters to monitor sound to a digital medium. From what I've read, the calibration and sensitivity are very different between the mixer, the digital recorder, and the cam. I'm going to be recording dual sound in the hopes that I'll have a backup if I ruin the sound into my cam, but my suggestion would be to go with a mixer with LED metering if you can afford one.

Hopefully I'll upgrade in the next two years to a 302 or, cash flow permitting, a 442.

Fingers crossed!

Hey Christopher,
FYI the FP-32 is stereo. it has 3 inputs and stereo output like the 33 and 32A. Shure had some sort of naming convention which told you how many inputs and outputs the mixer had. 3 in 1 out is a 31. They broke the naming convention with the 33 and some other mixers so it doesn't work anymore. One thing to be slightly concerned about with the old 31 is the Line output of older models had some trouble matching up with Sony broadcast cameras and decks which would cause the input to overload on the recording deck. In my opinion it was a Sony design issue but Shure had to modify the design a little to keep it from happening. I recall having to solder some resistors inline with the XLR outputs to drop the output a little. Not sure what the Shure factory mod ended up being. Best to check with Shure if they remember. The FP 32 was a big improvement, The FP-32A I would avoid and the FP33 is pretty good.
Since the 31 has VU meters while most of the digital gear is peak you will find you need to run your levels on the mixer fairly low to get good deflection on your digital recorders.

Hi all,

I just purchased a Shure FP-31 (no flaming), and am looking for a bag. I've been looking at the koala-1 (http://www.adorama.com/KAK1.html?searchinfo=kata%20koala&item_no=3) from kata and the petrol psmb (http://www.adorama.com/PSPSMB.html). Both good, but I'd like some alternatives in the same or lower price range. What do you guys use? What can I get away with? What features do I really need in a mixer bag as opposed to ones that are just nice to have?

ChrisI just recently bought a Petrol PWMB for my SD 442 and it's terrific. I think you'll find the Petrol is well worth the money spent. Don't skimp, you'll be using it for years.

Hey Christopher,
FYI the FP-32 is stereo. it has 3 inputs and stereo output like the 33 and 32A. Shure had some sort of naming convention which told you how many inputs and outputs the mixer had. 3 in 1 out is a 31. They broke the naming convention with the 33 and some other mixers so it doesn't work anymore. One thing to be slightly concerned about with the old 31 is the Line output of older models had some trouble matching up with Sony broadcast cameras and decks which would cause the input to overload on the recording deck. In my opinion it was a Sony design issue but Shure had to modify the design a little to keep it from happening. I recall having to solder some resistors inline with the XLR outputs to drop the output a little. Not sure what the Shure factory mod ended up being. Best to check with Shure if they remember. The FP 32 was a big improvement, The FP-32A I would avoid and the FP33 is pretty good.
Since the 31 has VU meters while most of the digital gear is peak you will find you need to run your levels on the mixer fairly low to get good deflection on your digital recorders.

You seem to know what you are talking about. May I ask a question if you don't mind and Chris this maybe insightful to you as well and I don't mean to try to invade your thread. But Daniel would it be in my best interest to go with a newer mixer that has LED instead of VU meters? I'm new to the world of film but I have been using studio/recording gear for awhile and you know its all digital but since this field mixing/recording it could be a slight different. I see most people go with the Sound Device 302 and it was another mixer a guy had on here but I can't think of it but it looked similar to the 302. I will continue to do more research because I would rather wait and save instead of just buy something so I can have a mixer you know. Ok I'm done now. Sorry...

Thanks
Nicole
www.myspace.com/misscc803

Hey Nicole,
If you are in the market for a new mixer instead of a used mixer like Christopher seemed to be getting then you have a choice. Most of the newer mixer designs are using electronic displays instead of mechanical VU meters and these give the user a display which is similar to what most of the decks and cameras are showing which can be an advantage. This doesn't neccesarily make the mixer sound any better or be the correct choice for other reasons. Also not all the LED displays are the same so you still might find them lacking for some jobs. I think you will be hard pressed to find a new mixer design which won't use an electronic display going forward.
This doesn't mean an older well established mixer design should not be considered. Choose the right tool for the right job. Sound quality, ease of use, capacity and durability all come into play. As an example I like the way my Wendt X5 works overall even though it has VU meters compared to the Wendt X3 which uses LED meters.
To me the current consideration is how does the mixer integrate into the whole system and being able to record iso and mixed audio tracks while sending a signal to other systems is the way things are going. Keeping an eye on what you are going to record to is more important than whether the metering is led or some other technology.

...But Daniel would it be in my best interest to go with a newer mixer that has LED instead of VU meters? I'm new to the world of film but I have been using studio/recording gear for awhile...
If you're used to working with gain structure and have some familiarity with how to work with db measurements, you would have no problem using a mixer with VU meters feeding a modern camera.

Set 0db tone on the mixer to somewhere between -12 and -18 db on the camera depending on how peaky the content is or how conservative you are. Run your peaks at 0 on the mixer or a little hotter.

Hey Seth,
In my experience setting the tone to -20 and peaking on the record machine around -12 doesn't mean I want the VU meters to peak slightly above 0. On many machines this has been too hot. peaking at -10 to -5 on the VU is often more than enough. If you are running tone at -12 then you have to be even more careful. Also just figuring out some camcorders meters requires some tricks as many do not actually tell you what the symbols mean. Some mixers. cameras and recorders seem to disagree as to what Line level is so I tend to be more conservative in the digital realm to not end up with distortion than to try and maximize signal to noise as I would with an analog system. Another issue is how to set you limiters up on a mixer if they are adjustable. I like to set them around +12 instead of +18 as some are shipped so they keep the digital recorder from ever reaching the clipping point. But that is just me.

I can't disagree with Daniel.

His comments apply equally, I think, to digital metering at the mixer as they do to analog metering at the mixer.

The issue of setting mixer 0 tone at -12, -18, or -20 on the recording device does indeed only get you part way there - from that point some experience with the camcorder will tell you where to peak on the mixer. If you can test out the camcorder before the shoot that's benchmarking. If you're testing out the camcorder on the shoot that's trial-and-error.

But it is the same issue if you are using a mixer with digital metering. Some experience with the particular camcorder is needed to know where the safe range is.

"We can only shoot this once" calls for a more conservative approach than "let's see how that first shot looks and sounds, what do we need to change". A mixer to camcorder cable bundle that includes a headphone return is *very* handy (commonly called a "betacam cable"). A recorder in your bag (that you know well) is good when things get messy.

There are a series of things a good location mixer can and should do to manage and reduce risk, but risk can never be totally eliminated.

Hehe, now I'm getting nervous. I'm not a sound guy, but it appears I need to become one. Please forgive any noobish questions I'm sure I'll be asking you guys in the near future.

I will shortly be adding the title of "Renaissance Man" to my signature =)