I saw that the HPX 300 ( a shoulder mount variant/progression of the HPX 170) is due to be released on Feb. 11th. Just wondering if you guys know anymore about this cam?

Kevin:

Just to clarify, there is an unsubstantiated rumor for a few months that there might be some INFORMATION about a possible new camera being released by Panasonic, supposedly next week. It would be highly unlikely that any new camera itself will be released just a month and a half before the video industry's high school prom, NAB.

There is no official confirmation of anything from Jan or anyone else at Panasonic. There are no indications that Panasonic will actually release the new camera next week. If they did, that would be unprecedented.

This is how ridiculous rumors proliferate all of the web at the speed of light. Now all of the posters that only read this here to DV Info and don't frequent other sites are going to think that what you have written is the Gospel, then they will post it on other boards and so on and so on.

Maybe it will turn out to be true, but there is also a good chance that nothing of substance will be known until NAB.

Dan

Part of the problem with this particular rumor is there is a video both on YouTube and a few other places that list the video clip as "HPX300" but in fact it's a spot about the HPX3000. It's a simple typo that's causing all the stir.

This belongs in "Area 51" for rumor-mill nonsense.

I have info from two very reliable sources. This camera is real, there will be a press release on the 11th. Panasonic introduced the P2 Portable upgrade with AVC Intra, HD SDI input to the P2 Gear as well in a similar time frame, delivery in March.

Panasonic will have more new cameras at NAB, but not ready for delivery, unlike this one.

Jeff Regan
Shooting Star Video
Shooting Star Video (http://www.ssv.com)

Until an official announcement made this is strictly for the rumor-mill. As Dan points out there is no confirmed - or even hinted - data from any reliable source much less Panasonic.

Until an official announcement made this is strictly for the rumor-mill. As Dan points out there is no confirmed - or even hinted - data from any reliable source much less Panasonic.

Robert,

It can be moved to Area 51, but it will need to be brought right back on Wednesday! I've been in the camera rental business for 27 years, when I say I have reliable sources, I can assure you I'm not alluding to an internet typo. Even if the model number were to be incorrect, there is a new camera about to be set loose from Panasonic!!

Jeff Regan
Shooting Star Video
Shooting Star Video (http://www.ssv.com)

I have info from two very reliable sources. This camera is real, there will be a press release on the 11th.

Nothing has surfaced; have you seen a release somewhere?

Nothing has surfaced; have you seen a release somewhere?

Just as I said, press release is out now. News and Information of the Television and Cable Industries | Broadcasting & Cable (http://www.broadcastingcable.com), just google "ag-hpx300".

1/3" "3-MOS" in a full size camera body doesn't do a lot for me, but the AVC Intra should surpass XDCAM EX handily. Price is $10,700 including Fujinon detachable lens.

Jeff Regan
Shooting Star Video
Shooting Star Video (http://www.ssv.com)

Here is a link to to videos of the HPX300.

Abel Cine Tech - Video: A First Look at Panasonic's HPX300 (http://www.abelcine.com/articles/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=318&Itemid=35)

Wow, I am blown away, I really thought that this was just rumor and it turned out to be true. Even stranger is Panasonic saying it will be available in March, the month BEFORE NAB. Hell is collecting icicles as I write this ;-).

Looks like a nice camera, just beware that it is only 1/3" 3MOS imagers and it does have the same Jellocam and rolling shutter artifacts as all of the other CMOS cameras on the market.

Looks like an interesting camera although I cannot for the life of me understand why Panasonic didn't go head to head with Sony and just use 1/2" CMOS instead of 1/3"?

Dan

One thing that separates Panasonic from the competition is that it's rooted first in an electrical engineering background, not an A/V product maker which is why all the pro-codecs they've created are easier to work with than others. So it's possible that Panny has found a way to deal with rolling-shutter and CMOS smear in-camera before it gets recorded. Barry is great in sussing out details like that so it'll be good to see his review and see what they've done about those issues.

It's nice to finally see high-res LCD's in use in a sub-$20k Panny cam; too bad they couldn't have incorporated that stuff in the 170, 200A or 500.

I'm sure this new cam fits a need but for a bit more money the 500 makes more sense to me; bigger chip, more P2 slots, no rolling-shutter issues and far greater lens selection.

Since I aspire to be a globe trotter, any cam that is not dual mode is a non-starter for a professional use.

Am I correct that the ex1 is dual mode switchable, and this and the 170 and 20 are not?

And for 10k, more than the ex1, this is not switchable? And has smaller sensors?

Since I aspire to be a globe trotter, any cam that is not dual mode is a non-starter for a professional use.

Am I correct that the ex1 is dual mode switchable, and this and the 170 and 20 are not?

And for 10k, more than the ex1, this is not switchable? And has smaller sensors?

Hi,

The AG-HPX170 can be made switchable, easy enough, if you need the upgrade on your camera contact pbtscservice@us.panasonic.com. The HVX200 is not upgradeable, but I think that was decision made back in 2004 and ealing with tape bound issues at the time. On the HPX300, we are still working our way through this one and it may well end up with the same situation as the HPX170, that is can be upgraded. This of course is relative to US customers and product and of course is subject to final negotiations with the factory.

And this camera is not $10000 more than the EX1, it is $10700 list price. It really is more of a competitor to the EX3, but it is in a class of its own as there is not another camera in this price range that has a 10 bit 4:2:2 recording capability.

In comparing the size of the sensors, CMOS rules are a tad different, the resolution differences between these cameras using the stock lens that comes with the HPX300 is negligible. Similar in low light performance in 24P, but the EX has a gain in 60i, not sure why that would be but it is true. But with the HPX 300 I an record Standard Def or HD, and I can do that in two different codecs, DVCPRO HD or AVC-Intra. Lots of nice features on the camera, our wesite should go up today with brochure, and maybe manual, maybe not. The manual will make shortly if not today, I am just not sure that the last one I received is the final, so I have to wait for that reply.

Hope this helps,

Jan

Even stranger is Panasonic saying it will be available in March, the month BEFORE NAB. Hell is collecting icicles as I write this ;-). Off topic, perhaps, but it's not just Panasonic. JVC's new
HM700 is also shipping next month, well in advance of NAB.

(Thread title changed from "HPX300?" to HPX300 Announced)

Hope this helps,Indeed it does, thanks Jan -- sorry I didn't have a chance to speak to you yesterday, but I had to immediately bail out of the press conference and cab it to Penn Station in order to catch a 2:45pm train, though it was definitely nice to (briefly) see you there. Hope to catch up with you in April. Thanks again,

Speaking of 1080/60i, XDCAM HD or XDCAM EX in interlace mode really show the limitations of the codec. If 1080/60i were a format needed often, DVCPRO HD and AVC Intra would be preferable, IMO.

The difference between the various versions of HDV based codecs, such as Sony, JVC, Canon, vs. AVC Intra is big. I just can't see anyone choosing a higher end HDV Long GOP 4:2:0 based camera when a Panasonic camera is available for $9K or under street price with
broadcast form factor and 10-Bit, I-Frame 4:2:2 full raster codec. P2 cards would be extra, of course, but a 16Gb P2 card has a similar price to an SxS card for XDCAM EX.

Jeff Regan
Shooting Star Video (http://www.ssv.com)

Off topic, perhaps, but it's not just Panasonic. JVC's new
HM700 is also shipping next month, well in advance of NAB.

Guess since trade shows are kind of withering away in importance, and the economy is so pathetic, perhaps we will continue to see companies releasing their new products on their schedule, not showing at NAB and then all of us having to wait 6 months before our dealers get the new models in. This could be a good trend IMHO.

Apple dropping MacWorld, numerous companies shining NAB, we live in unprecedented times.

Dan

Hey guys,

Wasn't sure if you've seen this yet, but here are my video tours of the new camera. I had a good week with the camera so feel free to ask any questions.

Panasonic AG-HPX300 1/3" 3MOS P2 HD Camcorder - DEPOSIT ONLY :: HD 24p Cameras :: SD, HD 24p Cameras :: Cameras :: Equipment Sales :: Abel Cine Tech (http://www.abelcine.com/store/product.php?productid=1001284&cat=0&page=1)

Abel Cine Tech - Video: A First Look at Panasonic's HPX300 (http://www.abelcine.com/articles/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=318&Itemid=35)

Edit: Oops sorry for the repost... didn't see the thread change.

Indeed it does, thanks Jan -- sorry I didn't have a chance to speak to you yesterday, but I had to immediately bail out of the press conference and cab it to Penn Station in order to catch a 2:45pm train, though it was definitely nice to (briefly) see you there. Hope to catch up with you in April. Thanks again,

Hi Chris,

I was sorry you couldn't stay as well, was hoping to catch up. But it was a bit of a "rock star" environment around the camera afterward and I realized about an hour or so after the briefing finished that I hadn't seen you. Went out to see Pat in the lobby and asked; she said you had an appointment and had to leave. Figured we'd catch up sooner or later.

Thanks so much for coming.

Best,

Jan

This is a double post but...

Here is some HPX300 footage in P2 format. Only a couple of different shots in different frame rates but it'll give you an idea. This is all in AVC-I 100 1080.

HPX300-AVCI100.zip (http://www.filefactory.com/file/af0e22g/)

Some footage and stills can also be seen on my Vimeo site - Andy Shipsides on Vimeo (http://www.vimeo.com/shipsides)

Andy

Gosh - that's really mighty fast for you to get that camera! Our Singapore Panasonic (not dealers, mind you) only have ONE camera - and it is not for sale either ... Just one or two coming in end of this month.

Do you see any problems with the CMOS usage? Rolling shutter, use in camera flash environment, low light noise level? What is the low light sensitivity like? Similar to HPX170? Or is it equal to HPX500 (2/3" CCD)? They managed to cram 2 Megapixels into 1/3" CMOS - so I am wondering.

Hey TingSern

Jan from Panasonic lent AbelCineTech the pre-production model for some testing. Which was extremely nice of her.

The camera has the same read out as a CMOS camera. That means it has a rolling shutter and everything that goes along with that. I was amazed how well it did in low light, with all the pixels stuffed in there. It is around the same sensitivity as the HPX170. The HPX500 is still more sensitive, which makes sense because the 500 is a larger chip with less pixels.

Just in case you were wondering all the footage I listed is at 0 db except for the shot of the boat which is +3db.

Unfortunately all the footage you've shared is under-exposed and in some areas badly and needs a little color correction. I've taken the liberty of getting a full-size screen grab from one of the clips you posted (thank you!) and cleaned it up a bit so the image can be more accurately critiqued.

Overall it's a superbly clean chipset, very little noise when compared to the HVX200 (original, not the "A" revision). It would be interesting to see how it performs in progressive.

For those that want to preview Andy's AVC-Intra footage you'll need the AVC-I decoder from Panasonic, and it's free:

https://eww.pavc.panasonic.co.jp/pro-av/support/desk/e/download.htm#quicktime

If you look through the footage I posted there are a couple clips in 24p. I posted this to give everyone a basic idea of the look of the camera. Also many people wanted to play with AVC-I footage as well. You may find it under-exposed but I feel that it serves those two purposes well. It is far from a true camera test with noted parameters, which is something that I plan on doing in the future, but take from it what you can.

I downloaded your HPX300 clips into my workstation to test.

Basically, after reading some posts about the high CPU usage to decode AVC-I in this forum and elsewhere, I got a bit worried ... but, without any real world AVC-I data, I could not test it out myself (until now).

I am using a powerful workstation - Intel dual Xeon, quad core (3.2Ghz) with 24GB RAM - running Vista 64. EDIUS 5.01 is what I am using - and is able to playback and write AVC-I format without using Panasonic's free decoder/encoder.

To my surprise and relief, I found that I could play back AVC-I (this one) on the timeline in real time (1920 x 1080) with the CPU averaging about 30%. About the same CPU loading as playing back DVCProHD.

Hence, I am astonished that Sony could claim that their XDCAM's MPEG2 is "better" than AVC-I in terms of lower CPU usage. If I use DVCProHD as the baseline - I see little difference between that and AVC-I in terms of CPU usage.

However, playing back AVCHD is a different thing altogether - I see CPU usage going up to 95% - and the playback shutters badly. I observe no such thing when I play back this AVC-I.

The camera has the same read out as a CMOS camera. That means it has a rolling shutter and everything that goes along with that. I was amazed how well it did in low light

You mention in your video the "high fill factor" of the sensor. What % is that fill factor?

I.

Here's a link to Kevin's footage that we got in Africa with the HPX300. The first clip is HPX170, then the rest are clips that were shot with the stock lens (some) and a Canon 21x 2/3" lens with the 1/3" to 2/3" adapter (the majority of the shots).

(right-click and save-as, please)
http://www.silverphoenixllc.com/Africa2.mov

Here's a link to Kevin's footage that we got in Africa with the HPX300. The first clip is HPX170, then the rest are clips that were shot with the stock lens (some) and a Canon 21x 2/3" lens with the 1/3" to 2/3" adapter (the majority of the shots).

(right-click and save-as, please)
http://www.silverphoenixllc.com/Africa2.mov

Wow! That is amazing!

Don't know how anyone can ever make any judgements by looking at something they've downloaded. Lots of jitter in the pans, but is that just because it's compressed for uploading to web. You need see the camera and footage in the flesh to make any sensible judgement.
But it does have a pleasing look (very Panasonic, smooth and gentle).
Steve

Speaking of 1080/60i, XDCAM HD or XDCAM EX in interlace mode really show the limitations of the codec. If 1080/60i were a format needed often, DVCPRO HD and AVC Intra would be preferable, IMO.

The difference between the various versions of HDV based codecs, such as Sony, JVC, Canon, vs. AVC Intra is big. I just can't see anyone choosing a higher end HDV Long GOP 4:2:0 based camera when a Panasonic camera is available for $9K or under street price with
broadcast form factor and 10-Bit, I-Frame 4:2:2 full raster codec. P2 cards would be extra, of course, but a 16Gb P2 card has a similar price to an SxS card for XDCAM EX.

Jeff Regan
Shooting Star Video (http://www.ssv.com)





The XDCAM EX CAMS can also use SDHC cards and the 32GB SDHC are only $149.00