It arrived today in a rather large box...it looks REALLY nice. Unfortunately it's far too dark and far too cold to go shoot anything tonight. Tomorrow I take her for a spin. In the meantime please read my blog first my initial thoughts and lots of pics!!

Philip Bloom Blog Archive Shoot 35 SGBlade First Review and my adaptor history. (http://philipbloom.co.uk/2009/02/06/shoot-35-sgblade-first-review-and-my-adaptor-history/#more-1976)

Well, It's certainly a sexy looking beast and packaged beautifully.
I'm looking forward to your impressions in terms of how hard you can push the shutter speed and to what f-stop you can push it without grain.
Did the Siamese cats come as standard, or did you order them separately?

Siamese cats come as standard, just make sure you pay for fast shipping. It's cruel otherwise!

Nice cats !!! Good presentation on deboxing the unit. Can't wait to have some tests run !!

Phil:

You are the Imelda Marcos of 35mm adapters. It actually is quite nice to hear your comparisons of all these adapters.... next thing we need is a Phil Bloom model making use of the best of each !

I know, bit worried when I counted them all up!

Anyway...

...just got back from filming some test footage. I haven't looked at it yet so all I can give are my first impressions...

It was easy to set up, personally I think Wayne should bring out a 77mm version rather than use step up rings as they are horrible things that can easily get stuck on cameras. But I mounted it onto the ex1 using the ring very easily, adjusted the X/Y very simply using the grub screws on the flip module and had a perfectly aligned image.

I was zooming into about z70 to lose the edges clearly, maybe about z72 to be safe. A feature that I am glad this had that the Letus line has but the brevis doesn't with the EX1 is the ability to be able to zoom all the way in and maintain focus without really soft edges. Useful if you need a tighter shot quickly!

The rods are fine, not up to Zacuto quality but then they are a fraction of the price! They are light, sturdy and a perfect match for the Blade. The support bracket screwed on easily and I had my rig all up and ready in 20 minutes.

I can't comment on picture quality as I haven't imported the footage into my mac yet, but it looked good on the ex1 LCD. One thing I was warned to expect was edge sharpness, with wide lenses especially, you needed to have the ex1 closed down a lot to get it. Not so much on normal lenses. Buy on my 17mm I struggled to get edge to edge sharpness, but this is a very wide lens!

I stopped down to f11 and it looked fine, I also managed to put 1/500th shutter in. Bit difficult with the light in London today, also in the LCD it looked fine.

I will update later with some footage and a proper assessment. So far it all looks great!

I stopped down to f11 and it looked fine, I also managed to put 1/500th shutter in. Bit difficult with the light in London today, also in the LCD it looked fine.

I'd be very interested to hear if those figures can be achieved without patterning at all.

I'd be very interested to hear if those figures can be achieved without patterning at all.

Not at same time, one or the other. Am writing blog review right now and my test short is uploading to Exposure room as we speak!

here is the review and the test short film

Philip Bloom Blog Archive Test film made with Shoot 35 SGBlade (http://philipbloom.co.uk/2009/02/07/test-film-made-with-shoot-35-sgblade/)

Thanks for the review, pics, and footage. Very helpful.



Any chance you'd take half an hour with the HV20 behind it and post it...maybe to 'My Generation'...;)...? I'd really appreciate it.

there is chromatic aberration in the footage. you need to see the video in HD, in full screen to see it. these crops from the footage shows the chromatic aberration, the green/blue and yellow/red fringing in the contrast objects:

Phil, great review and great footage. You are such a talent! Which Rotorazor did you use? have you tried both?

I did see some grain at around 1:16 and some flicker 1:45, did you see this too?

At this early stage would you say the image from the SGPro is better than the Letus Extreme/Elite ? It looks a tad softer and more washed out than previous stuff you've shown from the lower end Letus but I wasn't sure whether it was because the footage is ungraded or its just the Richmond weather.

Also are you planning on testing the new Redrock Micro Encore M2 as well?

Sorry for all the questions.

Thanks again

Dan

Thanks for the review, pics, and footage. Very helpful.



Any chance you'd take half an hour with the HV20 behind it and post it...maybe to 'My Generation'...;)...? I'd really appreciate it.

i dont have the mounting kit for it unfortunately.

Please bare in mind, this is shot with an EX1, not an HV20...

Phil, great review and great footage. You are such a talent! Which Rotorazor did you use? have you tried both?

I did see some grain at around 1:16 and some flicker 1:45, did you see this too?

At this early stage would you say the image from the SGPro is better than the Letus Extreme/Elite ? It looks a tad softer and more washed out than previous stuff you've shown from the lower end Letus but I wasn't sure whether it was because the footage is ungraded or its just the Richmond weather.

Also are you planning on testing the new Redrock Micro Encore M2 as well?

Sorry for all the questions.

Thanks again

Dan

Hi dan

cheers mate,

I used the roto 1. I didn't notice the grain at all, just looked at footage, if you see grain it would be a circular pattern. But I did notice the flicker, not sure why...it was only when I overcranked to 60fps. V odd. Def more washed out than my usual stuff as I haven't graded it, couple of shots in particular with the sun coming straight at me gave nasty flair that made it look washed out. I was too lightweight to bring matte box with me.

I may get my m2 upgraded, but to be honest to find the time to do it and test it would be hard!

Best,

Phil

there is chromatic aberration in the footage. you need to see the video in HD, in full screen to see it. these crops from the footage shows the chromatic aberration, the green/blue and yellow/red fringing in the contrast objects:

Could be from any number of things mate, from the combinations of my picture profile settings to the Zoom lenses I was using or even the EX1/ Blade combo. You have to look hard to see it. I find it best not to dwell too much on negatives when there are so many positives...

here is the review and the test short film
Philip Bloom Blog Archive Test film made with Shoot 35 SGBlade (http://philipbloom.co.uk/2009/02/07/test-film-made-with-shoot-35-sgblade/)

That looks nice. Cheers for taking the time to review!
I'd be interested to see a shot of the blue sky (I'm sure you'll have one in the next 6 months) with the lens at beyond 5.6. My Letus makes a special point of introducing grain in such conditions.

Phil- Have you got test footage posted somewhere yet ?

Phil- Have you got test footage posted somewhere yet ?

Philip Bloom The Magic Bus Stop: Test Short Made with SGBlade (http://philipbloom.co.uk/films/35mm-films/the-magic-bus-test-short-made-with-sgblade/)

Thanks- nice job on the footage.

Wayne


You definitely seem to have got the apparent resolution well and truly licked. In the hands of the master it certainly looks good.

I certainly recommend you to make an adaptor ring to mount a Nikon f2.8 45mm pancake lens behind your achromat, drag your wares along to the nearest SI2K which has a Nikon f-Mount in its kit and talk the owner into shooting a test for you. You might be delighted or horrified with what you get.

You have to ride the Nikon lens focus like a hawk and the SGBlade will have to be supported on a rods kit, likewise the SI2K, otherwise the Nikon lens will baulk. It is not internally focussed but physically grows longer or shorter with focus movements. The SI2K owner may elect to put the "Mini" head on an umbilical and simply let the lightweight head be supported on the lens and get around the problem that way.

The SI2K has a "loupe" function which gives you an enlarged thumbnail portion within the frame of any part of the shot you want to establish critical focus upon, all-in-all a feature loaded bunch of assist functions which render me into a slavering jealous idiot, unable to afford this indulgence except at the expense of another owner.

My instruction set on dvinfo.net for the SI2K and Letus Extreme production bundle might give you a very rough guide if you decide upon this little adventure.

You will probably have to shoot it at 1920 x 1080 @ 25p to keep it within the means of your post-production suite. I tried ( and failed ) to edit 2048 x 1152 @ 25p on my previously satisfactory computer which is bottom-end for HD but go by. The SI2K can give you cineform .avi files or .mov files.

You will need the Neo or Prospect plug-ins from cineform to make it work or otherwise just be satisfied with seeing the image on the camera monitor screen.

Nice one mate.I have watched a lot of your stuff over the last few years and applaud your generosity in sharing your work.In yourr opinion how close are the blade and the letus ultimate on the resolution front?Regards
Henry

The Ultimate is definitely superior Henry.

The Ultimate is definitely superior Henry.

Well, the Ultimate may well be. I haven't used one but at more than 3 times the price it better really be WAY superior.
But because of my horrible experience with the Letus Extreme I would never give letus $4500 of my money. But judging from the footage I have been seeing online from the Blade it looks to beat the Letus Extreme in sharpness and bokeh, not to mention it has more features, which just the Ultimate has. Blade vs Extreme seems a no brainer. The Blade seems to win by miles.

Well, the Ultimate may well be. I haven't used one but at more than 3 times the price it better really be WAY superior.
But because of my horrible experience with the Letus Extreme I would never give letus $4500 of my money. But judging from the footage I have been seeing online from the Blade it looks to beat the Letus Extreme in sharpness and bokeh, not to mention it has more features, which just the Ultimate has. Blade vs Extreme seems a no brainer. The Blade seems to win by miles.

Unless you have an EX1 then it doesn't win by miles. Edge sharpness and CA is a problem with Blade.

Phil,

That's not good news for us EX-1 owners, can you elaborate? do you think it is the usual EX-1 related issues? Have you tried it in a non-flip config to see if it improves? or does the CA and edge sharpness issue apply to other cams too?

I would have hoped this adapter at least improved on the Brevis if not rivalling an Ultimate, do you think this is the case?

Dan

Unless you have an EX1 then it doesn't win by miles. Edge sharpness and CA is a problem with Blade.

Philip, I'm a little confused by this statement. In another forum you stated:

I shot some stuff yesterday with Blade and EX1 and didn't notice any CA.

I would say edge sharpness is better on the LEX with EX1 achromat than the blade. But then the blade lets you stop down...edge sharpness is fine with the EX1 and Blade if you stop EX1 down...limiting if you are low light of course. But this is mostly on the really wide lenses...

These statments from the other forum certainly seem to contradict the statement made in this forum regarding CA and, to some extent, regarding edge sharpness.

Adaptors seem these days to be swimming pretty much in the same stream but with some diversity still.

What suits one operator may not suit another.

Pin-sharp is not the be all and end all. It will be interesting to see how the other optional groundglass performs.

I would like to see the SGBlade and Letus Extreme/Ultimate/Elite duke it out on front of SI2K and Ikonoskop digital cinema cameras with really high quality relays.

I understand that the pitch of pixels in current digital cinema camera sensors is five microns. I understand the more or less practical grade of finish on groundglass surfaces for good bokeh rendition is about 5 microns. The manufacturer/vendors might like to correct me on this as I am no longer doing my own building.

So if a really good lens goes on front of a groundglass relay device, the internal optics and relay are of top quality, anti-reflection coatings exist on the shiny side of the groundglass and internal dust excluders, then if properly exposed and focus is meticulously managed, the groundglass relayed image should by my imagining come up to the practical resolution limit of a 4K bayer sensor and certainly should be able to meet the practical resolution limit of a 2K bayer sensor.

Real-world circumstances mean that ideal conditions do not always exist. The trait of a groundglass to amplify under certain lighting conditions, deficiencies in a lens and incorrect focus means that there is less forgiveness if the system is not managed properly.

Not really. CA has been brought to my attention after writing first statement. I hadn't really noticed it but everyone is going on about it. Edge sharpness is as mentioned. A problem unless you stop down EX1, then it's fine. Otherwise you have issues.

here is blog of my latest tests: Philip Bloom Blog Archive Bexhill-on-sea: Test short made with SGBlade RR2 (http://philipbloom.co.uk/2009/02/15/bexhill-on-sea-test-short-made-with-sgblade-rr2/)

Unless you have an EX1 then it doesn't win by miles. Edge sharpness and CA is a problem with Blade.

Well, edge sharpness is a problem with the EX1 and the Extreme too, even with the so called fix kit. Wider lenses still show very soft edges. The next problem is that unless you shoot wide open you always see the grain if you pay attention. The third problem is the build quality. The ugly bokeh is not even that big of a deal next to the above problems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Bloom
The Ultimate is definitely superior Henry.

Is it a mile or an inch?

In what way is the Ultimate definitely superior.Is it just sharper?Does it let in more light?
I am not focussing on build quality or ease of use such as back focus adjustment etc .Just resolution.Possible to do a test shoot side by side in good light - I wouldn't imagine there are to many people who own both so this would be appreciated.I know one of the early beta testers did a shootout but it was in a dark room.

Following on it would be interesting to know what the main difference is with regards to resolution.I assume that if they lose the same amount of light then the only difference really would be the spinning disk.I spoke to Wayne about this and he mentioned that they are working on releasing a third Rotor razor in the future that is the most light efficient of the lot.
If this were to be sharper then there really would be nothing between them right?

By the way Wayne was actually kind enough to send me some disks to experiment with and I can say that I have been able to get the disks to let a lot more light through ;and I mean a lot and still maintain diffusion.( I have diamond powder and grit by the way) Only problem is it was uneven and I got a strobing effect.Still working at it and if and when I nail it I will post footage.It was a little sharper so there is definitely something in the spinning element being optimised to be more light efficient.

If the aforementioned disc materialises and indeed is sharper and places the SGblade on par with the Ultimate - I cannot see how many would still wish to pay many times the price of a blade for a Letus.Personal opinion of course but the proof of the pudding is .............. so would you be so kind to do a mini shootout?
Take care.
Henry

I thought Phil Bloom's shoots using the SGblade were excellent.

I went on to the sgpro website and was astonished to see it say "from £599" which is £400 or so cheaper than the Letus extreme.

However when I built my kit on sgpro site the price came to £997 for:

"SGblade (with ROTOrazor 1, Flip Module & Achromat, 15mm Rods Support & Blade Bracket, Nikon F Mount, 62-72 Step Up Ring)"

So it's in direct price competition with the Letus Extreme.

From what I have seen of the images I would be happy with either Extreme or SGBlade (majority of my clients really wont notice any differences in edge-to-edge sharpness or CA, but they will love the bokeh).

So given that Phil's review of the SGblade didnt mention any build quality or adjustment issues (getting backfocus right seems a bit easier on SGblade compared to extreme), it seems that I woudl be better off buying from SGPro as they are UK based and so support would be easier to obtain.

Does my logic make sense?

Any comments appreciated, thanks.

I thought Phil Bloom's shoots using the SGblade were excellent.

I went on to the sgpro website and was astonished to see it say "from £599" which is £400 or so cheaper than the Letus extreme.

However when I built my kit on sgpro site the price came to £997 for:

"SGblade (with ROTOrazor 1, Flip Module & Achromat, 15mm Rods Support & Blade Bracket, Nikon F Mount, 62-72 Step Up Ring)"

So it's in direct price competition with the Letus Extreme.

From what I have seen of the images I would be happy with either Extreme or SGBlade (majority of my clients really wont notice any differences in edge-to-edge sharpness or CA, but they will love the bokeh).

So given that Phil's review of the SGblade didnt mention any build quality or adjustment issues (getting backfocus right seems a bit easier on SGblade compared to extreme), it seems that I woudl be better off buying from SGPro as they are UK based and so support would be easier to obtain.

Does my logic make sense?

Any comments appreciated, thanks.

What camera are you using it for? The SGBlade is a superb piece of kit and yes having a UK manufacturer is a massive plus for UK residents if it goes wrong.

Build quality is superb and backfocus is much easier to adjust than Extreme.

I think I've got it wrong below on price comparison - I mean for the about the same price as a Letus extreme the SGBLADE comes also with RODS!

(PS - I use a Sony V1).


What camera are you using it for? The SGBlade is a superb piece of kit and yes having a UK manufacturer is a massive plus for UK residents if it goes wrong.

Build quality is superb and backfocus is much easier to adjust than Extreme.

<<Originally Posted by Sherif Choudhry:
I thought Phil Bloom's shoots using the SGblade were excellent.

I went on to the sgpro website and was astonished to see it say "from £599" which is £400 or so cheaper than the Letus extreme.

However when I built my kit on sgpro site the price came to £997 for:

"SGblade (with ROTOrazor 1, Flip Module & Achromat, 15mm Rods Support & Blade Bracket, Nikon F Mount, 62-72 Step Up Ring)"

So it's in direct price competition with the Letus Extreme.

From what I have seen of the images I would be happy with either Extreme or SGBlade (majority of my clients really wont notice any differences in edge-to-edge sharpness or CA, but they will love the bokeh).

So given that Phil's review of the SGblade didnt mention any build quality or adjustment issues (getting backfocus right seems a bit easier on SGblade compared to extreme), it seems that I woudl be better off buying from SGPro as they are UK based and so support would be easier to obtain.

Does my logic make sense?

Please bare in mind, this is shot with an EX1, not an HV20...

What is the meaning of that.? elaborate on that please if you can.

The EX1 is a notorious difficult camcorder when it comes to 35mm adapters. It results in edge to edge sharpness issues and bring out CA far more when compared to a little HV20, which is the camcorder Adriano Apefos had been using to demo his adapter.

The EX1 is a notorious difficult camcorder when it comes to 35mm adapters. It results in edge to edge sharpness issues and bring out CA far more when compared to a little HV20, which is the camcorder Adriano Apefos had been using to demo his adapter.

So what about the XH-A1.? mounting a 35mm adaptor will increase the CA?

Yes, adding more glass to the front of any camcorder will increase CA. It is more apparent from one camcorder to the next.

Thats SGblade on a Viper with GG.relay in a FF35 setup

As you can see there is no CA at all...

Evangelos.


SGBlade on Viper.

I have been trying a Letus Extreme on a SI2K camera. I don't think anyone is going to top your setup in a while.

I believe Wayne's available groundglass area is generous. If you are chasing a scrap more groundglass area than the 50mm relay will give you, you might like to try a Nikon f2.8 45mm "pancake" lens for relay.

However any gain in "apparent" resolution from a wider groundglass view may be offset by lesser resolution offered by the 45mm Nikon lens versus the Zeiss lens so it might be a pointless test.

The downside for this lens is that it has a moving front element in a traditional design.

The whole adaptor moves forward and backward when you adjust relay focus so you cannot support the SGBlade by the Nikon lens structure as the focus will jam and the lens itself may break.

Bob, SGblade is one of the best adapters I have ever seen...

My relay in this setup, is in FF35, so its a bit longer... in S35 setup is 7 cm shorter... in the photos you see the components... there is a lens block which is German custom build for this aplication, the various mounts that have back focal distance for S35 or FF35, in the front of the lens there are various tubes for mounting various adapters...

So when everything is aligned and the allen screws are tighten then the relay can hold an SGblade with a lens... no problem to that... ofcoarse its better for the camera to use a Z-riser and rods to support the weight...

The relay is being build with 6000 series aluminum similar to what is used in F16's... the relay is like a tank...

So its totally modular... its not a DIY relay... its a real product that I build to order in a thermally controlled CNC lathe with tolerances better than 2 microns... on the very same lathe that are being build parts of the Pratt & Whitney turbofan engines that's on F16's... And with all that effort we have a lower cost relay than anything else...

That relay with SGblade in a Varicam in Filmrec mode at 0dbs with Rotorazor 3 gives a sensitivity of 400ASA at 180degrees shutter... so its the best system for low light cinematography...

And its understood that my relay gives SGblade a myriad of other uses...

I picked up a second hand Letus Extreme a month back and have been learning the adapter game recently.

Now after a month of use i've yet to get the back focus 100% accurate on the extreme and there is also some specs of dust inside the prism that are showing up on my footage occasionally.

So i've decided to sell the Extreme (Not hard down here) and want to buy a new adapter, Im thinking either an Elite starter package or a SGBlade.

Ill be using the adapter with both my EX1 and my HVX (original) and currently have the 50mm and 85mm zeiss primes with the nikon mount. Currently on the hunt for more glass.

The Elite is more expensive however i know that the picture quality is great, and that the accessories you get with unit are good quality (rails etc)

On the other hand it would be nice to have the spinning ground glass of the blade, the ability to stop down even more would be very handy - and the blade is also cheaper.

However is the picture quality and edge to edge sharpness good enough with an EX1? something that has been brought up a number of times in this thread.

Sorry its the same old questions.

Joe.


You can upspec the Extreme to Elite by buying in the front tube module which is available separately. Your secondhand Extreme may or may not have the EX1 special achromat.

When fitting up the new tube/Elite backfocus to the Extreme, whilte the front is off, you would be able to check for and spot off any specks on the groundglass or condenser element. The front face of the condenser is the likely resting place of a fixed speck. If it is on the rear face, then you have a more fraught task on your hands but not impossible. A speck which turns into a freckle when the motor is turned on will be on the groundglass.

For the SGBlade, you need to make sure you specify Wayne's special achromat for that camera.


Evangelos

Is the Viper a three x CCD or single CCD camera? What is the cost of your FF35 relay lens? Is FF35 the same as Ultra35? I understand the Viper is a 2/3" size sensor measured corner-to-corner. Is this correct?

For the SGBlade, you need to make sure you specify Wayne's special achromat for that camera.



All SGBlades shipping now come with the new optics (Achromate/condenser). No need to specify.

If you have an older Blade, you can purchase the new optics separately.

All SGBlades shipping now come with the new optics (Achromate/condenser). No need to specify.

If you have an older Blade, you can purchase the new optics separately.

Using an EX3. I've put the new optics on the SGBlade that I received in January. The Blade is modular so it was drop the condensor in place and drop the new acromat in place and that's it. Easy. I'm very impressed with the picture ... no CA and edge to edge sharpness ... so far anyway.

Bob,

Yea i know about the upgrade to make your extreme an elite, and i am 100% sure the dust is inside the prism. I've cleaned all around the ground glass, and also behind the achromat. (which im pretty sure isnt an optimized one)

However like i said in my first post, selling off the extreme isnt hard to do, so my issue isnt extreme vs elite, its elite vs SGBlade.

Cheers for your help though.