I know that this topic was indirectly covered in other threads. But please bare with me... As I wait for my 5D Mark II to arrive, I am wondering about what kind of successes (or failures) people have had with using this camera as their sole "home camcorder." The reason is because I would LOVE to NOT have to deal with multiple formats when I am editing. Right now I have a good HDV camcorder and it would be nice to NOT have to deal with importing tape! Or try to cut multiple formats on a single timeline.

Could someone comment specifically about how feasible it is to use this camera as your main vacation and home informal camcorder? Does the noise from IS lenses annoying you enough to ruin informal home videos? Do you find yourself having to decrease the aperture to get a wider DOF? Is focusing a real pain? Is the jitter and shake from non-IS lenses horrible?

I know that I will eventually be able to answer all these questions on my own once my 5D Mark II arrives... BUT the curiosity is KILLING ME! ;-)

I know that this topic was indirectly covered in other threads. But please bare with me... As I wait for my 5D Mark II to arrive, I am wondering about what kind of successes (or failures) people have had with using this camera as their sole "home camcorder." The reason is because I would LOVE to NOT have to deal with multiple formats when I am editing. Right now I have a good HDV camcorder and it would be nice to NOT have to deal with importing tape! Or try to cut multiple formats on a single timeline.

Could someone comment specifically about how feasible it is to use this camera as your main vacation and home informal camcorder? Does the noise from IS lenses annoying you enough to ruin informal home videos? Do you find yourself having to decrease the aperture to get a wider DOF? Is focusing a real pain? Is the jitter and shake from non-IS lenses horrible?

I know that I will eventually be able to answer all these questions on my own once my 5D Mark II arrives... BUT the curiosity is KILLING ME! ;-)

for quick, candid shots around the house it's probably not the best tool. "Jitter and shake" from non-IS lenses isn't much of a problem unless maybe you're looking at big focal lengths. For basic stuff it's decent and I even used mine to shoot a youth indoor soccer game a few weeks ago. Quickly and accurately focusing manually can be a challenge - I will see when the outdoor season starts up how much it helps to shoot at small apertures.

basically I prefer using a "typical" camcorder for that type of work. But for the types of shots where I have a lot more control over what I'm shooting, I think it's difficult to top what the 5D can do.

David, I've only had the cam for 4 days now, and I'm probably still in that 'new gear honeymoon phase,' but I think once you get your hands on it and see what it can do just with minimal available light, (making even drab locations look vibrant and interesting), you are not going to want to use anything else.

The fact that it's original purpose was to be a 21MP still cam that also shoots HD video, makes it even more practical for use on your family vacations. Now you won't have to lug around both a digital SLR and your camcorder. Just don't try and walk and shoot with it without a stabilizing device or even an unextended tripod/monopod to weigh it down.

I can't really comment on the IS noise issue as I've not done any sync sound experiments with it yet (and my lens is the non-IS 24-70mm f/2.8 L). Good luck... Enjoy the mkII.

Thanks you Keith and Krishna for the positive reports!

WHERE'S THE UPS GUY!!!!!

I think it depends on your definition of "every day camcorder."

If you expect to hand it to a novice, tell them to hit record, and see what happens, you'll be disappointed. If nothing else, make sure they have a wide lens and they know where the focus ring is.

On the other hand, if you get a separate mic, operate it yourself, and take care to stabilize it and focus, you'll get shots that you'll actually want to look at over and over in the future.

I think it depends on your definition of "every day camcorder."

If you expect to hand it to a novice, tell them to hit record, and see what happens, you'll be disappointed. If nothing else, make sure they have a wide lens and they know where the focus ring is.

On the other hand, if you get a separate mic, operate it yourself, and take care to stabilize it and focus, you'll get shots that you'll actually want to look at over and over in the future.

good point - I was actually going to come back here and add that it's probably not something you would hand off to your wife, child, friend, etc... and just expect them to get decent footage. Well, some folks are like that with a regular camcorder too, I suppose.

Well, some folks are like that with a regular camcorder too, I suppose.True. But with regular, modern camcorders, they can't blame the camera. With the 5D, one risk their wives saying, "this camera stinks. How much did it cost again?"

True. But with regular, modern camcorders, they can't blame the camera. With the 5D, one risk their wives saying, "this camera stinks. How much did it cost again?"

That's dangerous!

That settles it... My wife MUST stay away from this camera!

;-)

The solution is to take beautiful pictures at Christmas, birthdays and other events. Quickly upload the photos to an Apple TV or other device and gather around to look at them. "Oooh. Ahhh."

You might capture some video too, but if you spend all day at the computer editing the thing, the camera will be right back in the doghouse! Edit the videos to view at the *next* event.

The solution is to take beautiful pictures at Christmas, birthdays and other events. Quickly upload the photos to an Apple TV or other device and gather around to look at them. "Oooh. Ahhh."

You might capture some video too, but if you spend all day at the computer editing the thing, the camera will be right back in the doghouse! Edit the videos to view at the *next* event.

Oooooooo... An excuse to buy an Apple TV!

YOU ARE A GENIUS!

Seriously, will the Apple TV play the video directly from the 5D Mark II without transcoding? Or are you just talking about photos?

Seriously, will the Apple TV play the video directly from the 5D Mark II without transcoding? Or are you just talking about photos?I've got the 720p version. I need to transcode for it. And, yeah, I was talking about photos.

The Apple TV format encodes pretty quickly though. Besides, I'm not a fan of showing raw video. If it hasn't been edited, it's rarely worth watching.

That said, doesn't the Western Digital box show the MOV files directly? The problem with the Apple TV box to me is that it's handcuffed to iTunes. The box would rock if the hard drive was just available as a straight network drive.

(and my lens is the non-IS 24-70mm f/2.8 L). Good luck... Enjoy the mkII.


I got my 5D2 before XMAS. I was taking my normal shots with the 17-40 (well, not so "normal" since I'm using FF for the first time), when I decided to try video on a lark. I wasn't expecting much. I opened the lens wide to 17mm and let it roll. To my surprise the video was quite nice and the family loved it. The 17mm minimized my shake and even my zooms looked decent. The UWA capturing the whole family, combined with the great HD, made a video that I could never get with my HDV camcorder (which I'm selling).

I am planning on using the 5D2 video for serious work and then there will always be a tripod with fluid head, lens twisting, etc. But I was pleasantly surprised it was OK for home use. Now that I think about it, the problems with the 5D2, and it's uncontrollable nature, are actually OK for home movies where quality matters less.

It doesn't hurt that it is free (assuming you got the 5D2 for pics).

Thanks for the feedback Mark...

On my Sony A1U camcorder, I rely on IS so much that I was concerned about the non-IS video from the 5D Mark II (all my lenses are non-IS and I cannot afford new lenses right now). Thanks for the feedback...

And maybe that's the solution for the noisy IS lenses—use WIDE ANGLE non-IS lenses... Less jitter, no IS noise...

I'll be honest, I sold ALL my video stuff .. well the Canon XH A1 and the XL H1 just keeping the HV20 to playback hdv tapes. The EOS 5D MkII gives such gorgeous video albeit 30P not 25 or 24 ....and once you're used to the idiosyncracies of using a camera that performs much in the same way as a FILM camera ... and relearn the art of photography / filmography ... manual focus, adjust for depth of field, choose lens for subject fov etc.... it's just an amazing bit of gear. I just took delivery of a used Nikon 50mm f1.2 lens off ebay and fixed it with the Canon-Nikon adaptor which is PERFECT. Now I can shoot either low light noise free .. or bright light huge DOF .. or adjust anywhere between by letting the ISO auto adjust try to expose correctly for the FIXED manual iris and focus of the lens. Great amounts of control. My standard shoot present is to go for max latitude .. i.e. reduce the contrast and sharpness to minimum and set the color down two or 3 steps. I've found that the VLC player is the most accurate to use for watching the 'real' capabilities of the camera on playback. The speed is better, but it cracks up when the hard drive can't keep up. The great thing is that you're getting un-crushed pictures as intended. I've asked Cineform to produce a fix for NeoHD to get us working with NLE. We'll see how David and his team respond? In the meantime, help yourself to an ever updating list of zipped .mov files straight from the camera .. not artistic, but a wide range of lighting and subjects continually being added.

Untitled Document (http://www.limelighthd.tv/canoneos)

This is my favourite camera and video camera of all time - so far ;-)

ENJOY IT!

Oh .. I forgot .. I use an external microphone ... Sony type with a bracket that fits in the hot shoe ... most of the time you don't hear the IS and micro motor clacks ... but I've used the internal mic alone for shoots with the 'manual' lens (Nikon). The focus issue is not that bad once you're used to it ... and I use a side 'handle' for stability doing handheld shots .. makes a huge difference. The 70-300mm IS zoom lens gives me around about the same zoom capabilities as the Canon XH A1 did .. and IMHO the IS is better than the XH A1 stabiliser. I can do pretty darned good handheld shots on full 300mm zoom ...see the football match video on the website (link in previous post)

I've also got a 'domestic' Sony lavalier stereo mike for doing interview stuff ...and I use my Sony PCM recorder for doing 'wild sound' to sync up later in the edit suite ... much as I used to do with the XH A1. Of course the earlier XL H1 had full 4ch audio which let me do both on one camera !

I love my 5D mk II, but I wouldn't use it as my main camcorder for the simple reason that I can't (easily) edit the footage. My Quad core Dell 720 desktop with 3GB RAM simply can't keep up with the high bit-rate MOV files the 5D mk II produces, which means I can capture some great footage, but can't do anything with it. So, until there's a good PC workflow for these files, I'll still be shooting all my "serious" stuff with my Canon XH-A1.

Julian

I love my 5D mk II, but I wouldn't use it as my main camcorder for the simple reason that I can't (easily) edit the footage. My Quad core Dell 720 desktop with 3GB RAM simply can't keep up with the high bit-rate MOV files the 5D mk II produces, which means I can capture some great footage, but can't do anything with it. So, until there's a good PC workflow for these files, I'll still be shooting all my "serious" stuff with my Canon XH-A1.

Julian

I downloaded a Cineform trial version for my adobe premiere CS3. It worked great (except for audio that they claim will be fixed). It quickly converted the 5D2 raw footage into their lossless format and the editing was seamless. Playback was full-speed in premiere and scrubbing was fast.

I have about the same PC hardware as you except mine is the Dell 820 (?) which has 8 gigs ram and a raid. I was blown away at how much horsepower I got for $900 at Best Buy.

The problem is that I can't afford Cineform now. I will need to wait until I have a job that justifies and pays for it.

I downloaded a Cineform trial version for my adobe premiere CS3. It worked great (except for audio that they claim will be fixed). It quickly converted the 5D2 raw footage into their lossless format and the editing was seamless. Playback was full-speed in premiere and scrubbing was fast.

I have about the same PC hardware as you except mine is the Dell 820 (?) which has 8 gigs ram and a raid.

Mark,

That's great news... for you! I have 2 Windows XP installations on my computer which I access through dual boot. One system has everything installed on it, including the kitchen sink. The other, has nothing on it, except for Adobe Production Premium CS3 and TMPGEncXpress. Both systems have the latest Microsoft patches and software updates. Cineform's Neo HD t6rial did not work reliably on either system.

While I can appreciate David's statement that the current version of Neo HD does not natively support the 5D mk II MOV files and relies on other software to make it work (like CoreAVC, which I also have), I have a little problem with the statement that its failure to work reliably is mostly due to other software that's installed. I came to this conclusion because my clean system is pretty darned clean, and it was worse on that one, than the fully loaded system!

I'm guessing your Dell 820 system came with Windows Vista 64 (or otherwise you'd have no use for 8GB of RAM), and that could have something to do with it. I doubt I'll be upgrading to Vista, ever, since XP is working fine and Vista was obviously just a long-awaited stepping-stone to Windows 7.

I'll give the newest Neo HD trial a go when it comes out... hopefully Cineform will make it so that those of us who have already used a previous trial version will still be able to try the latest version!

Julian

I would never seriously try Neo HD until it supports 5D2. It is too expensive to take a chance.

Regarding Vista. I hated Vista when I first got it, for obvious reasons. But after two or three days of googling I have managed to disable all the protection features and new user interface crap. I am now running Vista 64 with no discernible difference from XP. I'm running all my old software and drivers with no problem. It sure beats XP 64 which was my only other choice. Also, I'm not touching Windows 7 until it's been out for some time. It is obvious they are rushing it out.

Hi Mark,

Not to change the direction of the thread too much, but I think Vista was just a stop-gap - an OS they HAD to release since it had been so long since they'd done an upgrade. Vista was released with serious problems which have only recently been corrected. I believe that Windows 7 is the operating system they were actually working on and really hoping to release. Instead, they released Vista, which pretty much everyone agrees is the equivalent of Windows ME... a bad operating system, which will do until Windows 7 is ready.

And now, back to your regular programming... :-)

Like you, I wouldn't invest in Neo HD until it natively supports the 5D mk II. I also wouldn't invest in it without being able to try it. I was so hopeful that it'd be my solution to editing the 5D mk II footage in Premier Pro CS3 and was willing (though a bit reluctant in these difficult financial times) to fork out the $500 for it. Given all the problems I had with it, all I can say is, thank goodness for the free trial! As you've suggested, I think Cineform could easily corner the market by adding 5D mk II support to Neo Scene, or even create an affordable standalone application which just converts 5D mk II footage for editing on the PC. Right now, I'm holding off buying anything in the hopes that Adobe will release an update for CS4 which will help those of us with 5D mk II cameras. Then, I'll probably upgrade to CS4. But if Cineform gets there first, maybe they'll get my money instead!

Julian

Not to go too far with your change of direction of this thread but I'm not sure I agree about vista being an incomplete windows version. It certainly had issues to begin with but they were mostly related to 3rd party support which I think is probably related to XP's dominance as an OS for so many years. Nowadays there is almost no software/hardware that supports XP that doesnt support vista. I'm running Windows Server 2008 64bit basically set up as a workstation OS and its nearly identical to Vista 64bit. If you look at Microsoft's versioning (Microsoft Windows - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Windows#Timeline_of_releases)) youll see that ME was still essentially NT4 (win98) based. I believe Vista is the first time that the consumer OS and server OS have been essentially running the same kernel versions. XP was always in its own consumer class while XP 64bit and Server 2003 were in a more professional class.

I dont doubt Windows 7 should bring some interesting developments especially once minwin kernel is fully implemented, but at the moment, the Windows 7 beta that is available and is actually Windows Version 6.1 probably isnt much more than some windows 7 features added on top of vista.

:) ok ill stop talking computers on a video forum

Take a look at
SportsShooter.com - This Time - Robert Caplin Video (http://www.sportsshooter.com/special_feature/caplin_thistime/)
This might help one decide about the 5d being a primary camcorder.

"Holy Windows Nightmare Batman!"

This thread sure made are strange turn (from a Final Cut Pro Mac user...)

;-)

I'm a bit off topic too. I understand David was asking about informal videography but my response is more general.

After having used the 5D2 in some personal and client projects I would have to say that under most circumstances, especially live videography the 5D2 can not replace a camcorder. It is a powerful tool for sure, and in some respects a better and more sophisticated tool.

It's just not practical to do live videos and pull focus at the same time, especially with a single operator. It's a gamble and one slip easily ruins a shot that you will never get another take on. This can lead to a huge disaster. You don't always have a chance to measure and place focus marks. Audio is also a concern, requiring clean recording off camera and ideally a slate to sync. Finally, even adjusting exposure takes some tinkering.

It only takes one person to monitor sound and operate an EX1, the 5D2 needs an entire crew. However, when you do have an opportunity to get the perfect shot with the 5D2 the results are stunning.

I know some have already proven me wrong and have shot shot some great live material. I don't mean to discourage anybody. Just be prepared.

I personally think a lot of people are obsessing over this thing a bit much. This camera produces fantastic moving images! Stop worrying about shooting wide open and let the camera do it's thing and then "lock" it.... want a faster f-stop?... put your hand in front of the lens and let it open up, lock it, take your hand away, and scroll the wheel until the display looks right for the shot. It's that simple. The sensor is so big that even at f4 with a mid range lens the DOF is fairly shallow... heck, the kit 24-105 can be used for just about everything other then wildlife.

Any film maker wanting great audio is going to want to acquire it off camera anyways... so invest some friendship in a sound professional. Otherwise invest in the Beachtech that appears to have a trick for the cameras auto audio gain issue....

Just imagine what Lucien Ballard, Conrad Hall or Raoul Coutard do if they had ths little gem in the hands?

Go shoot something!

Live event filming? that's a job for a camera that has timecode and a at least a 7x lens. This is not the right tool for that job.... Horses of courses.