Just thought I'd post my success with using Toast 10 for burning Blu-Ray discs. I used this article to do it:
Taming the Wild Blu, yonder... (http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/taming_the_wild_blu.html)
Taming the Wild Blu, part 2... (http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/taming_the_wild_blu_2.html)

I purchased a LG model #BE06LU11 Blu-Ray Recorder/Player because it burns at 6x speed

Basically everything went without a hitch! I was able to drag both XDCAM EX QuickTime movies (imported off the SxS card using XDCAM Transfer) and movies I rendered in AfterEffects CS3 in ProRes 422 HQ. Everything seemed to just drop right in. The best part was that I was able to burn to a standard DVD-R and my cheap Sony BDP-300 Blu-Ray player was able to play the disc without a hitch! Cool! (i have upgraded it to the latest firmware)

Toast 10 automatically creates simplistic menus and buttons, but you can choose from 16 different menu styles. (I chose Splash) It encodes the video very fast, and I used Best quality. This is sure a lot quicker and easier than transcoding to SD for standard DVD's.

Now we just have to get more people to buy Blu-Ray players so I can start distributing projects on Blu-Ray.

Don't get me wrong, Toast 10 isn't the answer if you want custom designed, professional looking menus. But if you just want a quick way to get your project off your system and still retain good quality, for $99 (plus the $20 BD plug-in) this is a good solution.

OFF TOPIC: I'm starting to notice a couple of things about the "look" of the footage I've shot. Shooting 1080 30P and especially when shooting with a 1/60th shutter, you can see the individual frames. Some people would argue it looks more like film and I would agree. But to me it doesn't have that "real" look that you get when shooting interlaced. I haven't shot any footage in 1080 60i yet, but I think I'm going to try it next. I like the look of 1080 30P with the shutter OFF compared to with the shutter on. I'm starting to see where this is a matter of taste and that there is no real "best way".

Mitchell I would think you would notice a difference in footage quality with DVD-R and Bluray disk.

Have you tried dropping in a Final Cut .mov? Or do you only use Adobe?

Thanks for the update.

I have dropped a mov straight from the camera via clip browser into Toast 10 Blu-ray and it has seen it and burnt it. I am now watching it on my 43 Pioneer via a PS3 on a dvd-r. Toast identified it was not a blu-ray disk and just burnet it to dvd. And it looks stunning. No conversion at all after clip browser.

So I can make a movie edited in FCP, output it as a mov, bring it into Toast and let it do its stuff on the best setting. Like Mitchell said, the menues are basic but it works and encodes to a very high quality. Nice one.

Edit. OK edited a sequence together in FCP, 1080P25, which lasted about 5 minutes. Exported as QT movie, current settings. No problem for Toast at all. Burnt BD files to DVD-R no problem. Toast encodes very quickly.

^^^What Steve said^^^^ No difference in quality between using DVD-R's and BD-R's. The data is the same, obviously the capacity is different.

Mitchell I would think you would notice a difference in footage quality with DVD-R and Bluray disk.The exact same files on either media will *not* show a difference in quality. The only real difference between DVD-R and Blu-Ray is capacity.

Thanks Chris that is good to know.

Sounds like Toast 10 is a good way to go for BluRay.

I'm very surprised that they have built in such functionality in a simple to use $99 program.

I haven't tried it yet, but Toast 10 also converts from DVD (VIDEO_TS) to a variety of video formats. I'm hoping that one of them is DV/DVCPRO NTSC Quicktime MOV. (720x480)

WOW this makes me feel way better. thanks guys for the info and feedback on your experience with Toast and blu ray. Seems like the way to go for now.

thanks

Shawn

Cool! I'm finally able to return the favor and help someone else on this forum! (I feel all warm inside!)

I'm sure you'll be happy with it Shawn.

Roxio could really push this and make some money while Apple is dilly dallying. FCP users are being starved of a way to make Blu-ray DVD, and Roxio have in their hands the chance to expand this product and fill the niche.

Some good varied templates and an increase in the ability to make some decent menues would help this sell by the bucket load.

Apple have dragged their feet for the past year with blu-ray, hoping it will go away and making feeble excuses like " a bag full of hurt" etc. It's just not good enough when they have over 1 million registered users of FCP who use their software on an almost daily basis. Not being able to burn a blu-ray dvd out of DVDSP is frannkly a very poor show.

Toast 10 with the BD plugin works extremely well and gives an excellent image. Though I shoot weddings and they don't have a wedding template I could get away with it for a few months. What a shame I can't make my own template to use inside the program.

Still, a lot better than nothing. Strange how Roxio can do it buut Apple themselves can't. Or can't be arsed to.

The only negative with this work flow is that there's no way to play back your disc on the Mac. You need a home blu-ray player to do that. Sucks....

The only negative with this work flow is that there's no way to play back your disc on the Mac. You need a home blu-ray player to do that. Sucks....

There is "Boot Camp" Windows which is what I use when in a pinch. Inconvenient as all get-out, but it works and with a little more creativity, it will also play commercial Blu-ray.

Thanks Mitchell purchased Toast 10 with added BluRay. First burn was easy. Seems to me a much better solution then Adobe which I have found to be a pain.

Apple's position on Blu-ray is odd.
I do understand that Blu-ray playback on the Mac is a legitimate problem for Apple. Commercial Blu-ray disc copy protection would mean a MAJOR change in the OS. Some have even said that the reason Vista is such a nightmare is at least, in part, due to its support of Blu-ray playback.

Of course I don't see how that should prevent Apple from developing a means of Blu-ray burning in DVDStudioPro as well as playback of non copy protected discs. I don't doubt that Apple's mulling over how to handle this is a big part of the delay. Obviously Toast shows that burning discs is not an issue.

It's also possible that Apple is working out some parts of this issue with Snow Leopard and that the upgrade from Final Cut Studio 2 to 3 (including DVDStudioPro) is tied to functions in that OS. A piecemeal solution may be problematic for Apple.

Blu-ray players still seem to have a very small market penetration compared to HDTVs. When you see big movie rental places like Netflex offering download (although not HD by any stretch) Apple may genuinely feel that Blu-Ray video only has a lifespan of a couple of years at most.

Apple believes what it would need to do to the OS to accommodate this would suck even more. I've heard from some people who say Apple is fully justified to be concerned about what it would do to the user's experience of the OS to implement this. They've said Jobs is quite right about the "world of hurt."

The only negative with this work flow is that there's no way to play back your disc on the Mac. You need a home blu-ray player to do that. Sucks....

It does not matter to me that Mac OS will not play back BluRay. Just buy a Bluray player which is what most of my clients use and that lets you check the results they will view.

I'm with you Paul. I just bought and will use ADOBE SOFTWARE PROUDLY to burn and sell my Blu-Ray discs. Unfortunately, I will be using DVD Studio Pro for DVDs like I have been for 5 years, as that is what I know and want to finish ASAP for the market.. but once I learn Adobe and if its up to par, say goodbye to DVD studio Pro as I will make DVD and BD in one step.

For Apple not to have an HD solution and be on the board of Blu-Ray... I think is an insult to us Producers shooting in HD. HD-DVD is dead. Apple had the first solution for them (hd-dvd) and now nothing for 2 years behind Sony, and Adobe?!

I thought Apple was a cutting edge publishing company... People have been shooting HD for 3 years now and no way to publish a BD disc?! DVD sucks for HD... BD is selling well and growing... Come on, get off the attitude, pay the stupid license fees and make some great software to empower us producers like Apple use to.... Thanks to Adobe for stepping up - otherwise - we would all be PC users.

I've had Adobe Encore CS3 for more than a year now. The program does work, but it's very buggy and crashes a lot. Plus the compressor that Apple uses for standard def DVD's is much better than the compressor that Adobe uses. I love Adobe programs, and I've been using them for years, but Encore still needs a little work. Maybe the CS4 version is better? I'll be purchasing CS4 Production Premium (upgrade from CS3) sometime in the next few months.

Just got an email notice for this today. Odd given the date but it must be on iTunes then.
state of Blu-ray technology for video producers
Creative Planet's Digital Production BuZZ - News (http://www.digitalproductionbuzz.com/news.php?newsid=2093)

Here's the link that'll get you to the podcast
http://www.digitalproductionbuzz.com/Archives/ShowNotes.php?date=2009-01-21

Interesting Craig,

Larry Jordan is a great teacher will be interested to hear what he has to say when it hits itunes.

Thanks Craig a good overview of the basics. Clearly, the bag of hurt is Blu-ray replicating and the associated license fees which should not be an issue for the work that most of us are doing.

Thanks Craig a good overview of the basics. Clearly, the bag of hurt is Blu-ray replicating and the associated license fees which should not be an issue for the work that most of us are doing.

I think there are two basic issues Apple is facing.
Blu-ray playback of commercial copyprotected disks. I think Apple is smart not to screw up the OS for this. I do think one should be able to playback non copyprotected disks as one might make or receive from clients.

Blu-ray authoring for commercial replication. This is actually not critical for those of us dealing with small corporate and personal business disc creation. Certainly Toast and Encore are being used in this area (small client delivery) and it would be reasonable to expect DVDStudioPro to handle this.

I do think at issue is Apple's outlook on Optical Disk Authoring in general. Apple made virtually no improvements in DVDStudioPro between Final Cut Studio 1 and FCS2. In addition, Apple has made virtually no change in iDVD between iLife 08 and iLife 09. In fact iDVD isn't even mentioned in the packaging of iLife 09 although it's there. It seems Apple genuinely thinks Optical Disk is dying. To leave it off the consumer package indicates that it has no market value at all for Apple. They certainly have shown no interest in improving the features in either their consumer or professional Optical Disk authoring tools.

Given that Apple has opted not to match Toast's Blu-ray video features in iDVD I don't hold out much hope for Apple adding Blu-ray authoring in their software/hardware. They aren't blocking it per se since Toast certainly works. They may feel that the demand is so low that they don't want to invest the R&D and will leave it to third party developers.

The "battle" seems to be between disk vs online vs file based delivery of HD. Personally each has their place though. I don't see disk dying. It won't be dominant the way DVD had been but there's still a need.

I think the problem is that people characterize disk vs online when it comes to Apple nor is it a complete picture. Some may feel delivering a file when complex menus aren't needed, may be more effective. I suspect this more accurately reflects Apple's position (not that it's a position I agree with though). I do think it all comes down is whether Apple feels the R&D for Blu-ray authoring, in its simplest form, is profitable for them or not. Apparently they feel it's not (relative to other things those finite R&D resources could be put in to).

There was a "rumor" that the reason that Microsoft went with HD-DVD for the X-Box was to dilute the waters and make consumers less interested in ANY high definition optical disc formats. The same rumor is that this is why Apple isn't coming to the Blu-Ray party. Both companies want consumers to forget about optical discs and move to downloads (iTunes, etc...) where THEY can make money.

I hope this is not the case as they will NEVER be able to offer the same quality in a download as they could on an optical disc. If they did, it would take way too long for most consumers to download. Now if we can suddenly get similar internet service to what Japan is enjoying (50mbs download) then maybe downloads will work. But I don't see that happening any time soon. :)

I'd thought I'd add another issue important to us EX users as a separate but important related subject.

The EX codec at MPEG-2 35mbps VBR in and of itself falls within Blu-ray spec. People at Sony have told me this much first hand.

What is REALLY needed IMHO is a way to burn the file to Blu-ray disk, WITHOUT RE-ENCODE (no additional loss) so that one can hand such disk to a client that can be played in any Blu-ray player. I don't think any app does that. In effect it would be file based delivery to a disk with basic authoring specs so it could play on a Blu-ray player.

Given that Sony is the "prime mover" behind MPEG-2 Long GOP you'd think they would have motive to create such an app as a cross platform utility.

Mitchell, as I mention in my post I think download vs optical miscasts the issue. File based delivery doesn't require EITHER optical or download (but can involved both) and that's the wild card.

I do think the companies that have to invest R&D in software and hardware have to look at the cost vs returns vs the longevity of the format. I suspect they find Blu-ray may be short lived or, at least, not have the market share portion that DVD had at its peak.

I think there's actually a lot of "market insecurity" where delivery is going and one thing for certain is that delivery may not be tied to a specific media. One can deliver a codec many different ways now.

One example: I can make an H.264 file that will play on a hard drive, can go to a big HDTV that would look spectacular . . . but might choke on an optical disk. In other words one may hand the file to a client but the media might not be an authored optical disk. It may even be on an optical disk to be copied to a hard drive. That doesn't involve authoring though.

Also it seems many things "consumer" are driven by convenience over quality even if some of us wish it were otherwise.

While the bandwidth for HD download still isn't there for much of the world or the USA it is getting close. HULU and NetFlix are certainly looking in that direction. Keep in mind download doesn't have to be real time (although that would be a big plus).

Really the whole issue isn't about single thing but a convergence of technologies and issues which, in total, make Blu-ray authoring and the R&D involved less attractive to companies like Apple.

^^^^^Great points! I agree.

Maybe people are thinking they can "deliver" on thumb drives (they are getting VERY cheap) and bypass optical discs. (just thinking out loud)

Yes Craig good points. I use thumb drives with WD player with some customers but some request BluRay. So it is nice to have the options with Toast 10.

The other possibility is flash card, possibly write once flash card too. Don't forget Blu-ray as data disk is a form of delivery which requires encoding but no authoring.

Delivery methods are becoming broader and broader so developing software tied to a specific media may be less lucrative for some companies.

Again this doesn't mean Apple is blocking Blu-ray, they may simply feel Toast is adequate for simple Blu-ray video delivery.

Also note that Adobe is not selling Encore as a separate utility either (nor does Apple for some time with DVDStudioPro). As an aside, many folks do report Encore as being buggy so apparently Adobe didn't make it a major R&D priority even while including the ability to author "primitive" Blu-ray.

Basically, except for the "high end" authoring software for optical disk, it appears not to be a lucrative market.

It's not that online or file will replace optical disk, it's just that optical disk on its own, isn't as dominant as it once ways and that certainly impacts the R&D motive for authoring software.

^^^^^Great points! I agree.

Maybe people are thinking they can "deliver" on thumb drives (they are getting VERY cheap) and bypass optical discs. (just thinking out loud)

^^^^^Great points! I agree.

Maybe people are thinking they can "deliver" on thumb drives (they are getting VERY cheap) and bypass optical discs. (just thinking out loud)

I just delivered a 47GB Blu-ray project. Thumb drives have a ways to go.

Charter Comm also announced their new high speed internet service which could make full HD download a reality, but it's $140/month. As for the rest, time will tell.

At the end of the day, I am grateful to have Blu-ray tools like Encore and Toast BD. I have not yet given up on Apple, they will deliver when they feel the time is right.

I have not yet given up on Apple, they will deliver when they feel the time is right.

I'm crossing my fingers that you're right.

I have dropped a mov straight from the camera via clip browser into Toast 10 Blu-ray and it has seen it and burnt it.

Steve-How are you using Clip Browser to copy clips to Toast? Finder doesn't show the blu-ray disk and shows everything grayed out in the Toast folder.

I could just add the files from within Toast, but I'm looking at the "To archive media from an SXS card to hard disc or other media, the Sony XDCAM EX Clip Browser application must be used" warning in the CB manual. Using an LG external blu-ray burner.

I have dropped a mov straight from the camera via clip browser into Toast 10 Blu-ray and it has seen it and burnt it.

Steve-How are you using Clip Browser to copy clips to Toast? Using an LG external blu-ray burner, Finder doesn't show the blu-ray disk and shows everything grayed out in the Toast folder.

I could just add the files from within Toast, but I'm looking at the "To archive media from an SXS card to hard disc or other media, the Sony XDCAM EX Clip Browser application must be used" warning in the CB manual.

Mike:

1) Use the Clip Browser to copy your files from the SxS card to your hard drive. (this is the process Sony wants you to use)

2) Now you have a BAPV folder on your hard drive.

3) Launch Toast 10 and create a new disc.

4) Drag your BAPV folder into the Toast window

5) Burn disc

What Sony DOESN'T want you to do, is copy your files from the SxS card to your hard drive using the Apple Finder. They want you to do it using the Clip Browser software. (as shown in Step 1)

Thanks, Mitchell. I'm copying files that have already been copied onto an archive hard drive and wanting to get the extra insurance with a blu-ray disk as well. So I'll just drag them in.

I'm almost positive that's your only option Mike.

The only other thing I could possibly think of, if you want to be extra, extra, sure that your data is in good shape before you copy it...... You could run a disc maintenance program on your hard drive before you copy the files. It will fix any errors with your files. Then when you drag them into Toast, you can feel better that they are "perfect".

But honestly, I think that would be a waste of time unless the files are really old, and are on a hard drive that has had lots of data written to it and then deleted and then rewritten, etc...

In addition, if I remember correctly, Toast does some error correction on your files as it prepares to burn the disc. But check out the manual before you take my word for it. :)

Just tried it using the + function; brought the files into Toast and burned a bd-re 25gb and they open fine in XDCAM transfer and then into FCP. Going to try a DL disk next. Thanks.

I did my edit in FCP, then exported as a Quicktime, then brought that into Toast.

I import into FCP with Sony Clip Browser, edit, export as a quicktime, bring it into Toast and out via the Blu-ray plugin. Works a treat.

Hi all

Read through this whole thread. Learned alot.

I'm just now sticking my head back in to HD authoring after having been burned as an early adopter in the HDDVD camp. As above, one name I have not seen in this discussion thread is Netblender. They have a pretty cool authoring package, in my opinion. It is Windows only, at least for now. But it does offer a nice feature set for the price.
I got a chance to meet and get to know the company at a seminar they did. I found them all to be hard working excited guys.

I think they have something that fits in this BD authoring space pretty well.
Jeff Bach