I am just about ready to order an A1 to replace the aging XL1s for wedding work.
I have really gotten my hopes up that even in standard definition, the A1 will be a big improvement over the XL1s.
To those who have made the same change, will I be disappointed?
I understand that low light is a little more challenging and I am prepared to use a little extra lighting. what I am confused about is most people are saying don't go over 6db gain or the footage will be grainy.
I use 18db regularly in very low light because I prefer a little grain over unnatural direct lighting.
is the A1 on 18db gain really that bad?

You must take all in HDV (no SD, with A1), than make downconvert for SD.
Gain +6dB is all right for most situations, for extrem lowlight you can use +12dB (I prefer gama1 and not so sharp image).

Mark, we haven't upgraded to the A1s from the xha1, so check out what I'm saying to see if it applies to the new model, but: You can record just fine in the SD mode on the A1 without downconverting, if you choose.

However, we have noted in our 4 xha1's, and a collegue who attended a national seminar found people there with the same response, that the SD quality from the A1 leaves something to be desired...a sort of blurriness to the image that looks like , well, overcompressed jpegs look, is the best I can describe it. Now, this may be a thing of the past with the new video processing chip in the A1s, but we have uniformly found that our consumer-level HV20's shoot rings around the A1 in SD mode, so there is something odd going on....as I say, this may be fixed in the new model, so check it out before you buy...

Battle Vaughan/miamiherald.com video team

PS occurs to me that Pavel is in Europe, where maybe the versions there don't have PAL output or something; the US XHa1 cameras have a choice of HDV or NTSC Standard def...selectable in the recording menu. /Battle V.

Yes, it is PAL version XH-A1, but there is no problem with option for SD. There is only fact, that in SD XH-A1 have less pixels on CCD and signal procesing is not very good (I make test with JVC GY-200, HPX500, Sony Z1, there was everythink all right). Try rendering to mpeg2 and you will see those differences.

Without a doubt the A1 is not good in SD mode - definitely not as good as a dedicated SD camera (I used to use an XM2 and that is better) - don't even bother with it - I've tried everything to make it look better by adjusting the custom presets and failed. However, HDV footage converted to SD (done in post, NOT in camera) generally looks better than footage shot on a dedicated SD camera though the difference is not that great. So if you're thinking of shooting in SD don't buy the A1. I originally thought I would use it in SD mode but have found shooting in HD then converting pretty painless and worthwhile. On lots of other levels it is great camera though. I would be interested to know if the A1s is any better...

Thanks for the response everyone.
I'm in a tough position now. The XL1s is in rough shape and I've already started booking weddings for this year, so I have to do something.
I anticipated needing a new camera, and planned on the A1, so I have started telling clients that I will be shooting in HD this year. Thing is, there was absolutely ZERO interest in getting the product on Bluray.
I guess I will get the A1, shoot in HD, burn a bluray for safekeeping and then down res to DVD for the final product.
Is it possible to edit in HD and then take the HD master file and convert it to SD?

Hey Mark,

I am new with my xha1....I shoot in hd mode, edit in hd, and render to mpeg2 mainconcept ntsc widescreen (all in vegas) and the footage looks fantastic whether on my high def 42" 720p tv or 19" colored tv(letter boxed). I just don't want you to think that you have to shoot sd to get sd. My first day shooting with my camera, I was zoomed in 30 ft away and could see small bugs crawling around on the ground, clear as day. I was blown away. Here is a link to my vimeo page that shows some of the footage and a low light test that I did. Hope this helps you make an informed decision.

Michael Hutson on Vimeo (http://www.vimeo.com/user1090961)

best regards,
Michael

I use 18db regularly in very low light because I prefer a little grain over unnatural direct lighting. is the A1 on 18db gain really that bad?

Ouch! Blech! Blah! Gak!

18db is stinko. I can't even deal with 12db. Shooting night racing under spotty lights I get better results by pulling down (to make them brighter) in post.

Mark, if you have no foreseeable need for HD, I suggest you consider getting a second-hand XL2. In my opinion, the SD picture quality of the XL2 is way better than what you get from the XH-A1 (after downsampling to SD). The XL2 image is more solid when there are a lot of fine details and movement, the camera controls are more in line with what you are used to (e.g. OIS button is on the lens) and you won't have to muck about editing HD files when DV format is so fast and easy. The only real downside (for SD work) is that the XL2 lens doesn't go so wide.

Of course I don't expect to get much agreement with this point of view on this forum, but anyway that's my opinion. :)

Richard

Thanks Richard, that makes a lot of sense.
I had been toying with the idea of getting a GL2 and saving some money as well. I really like the idea of going to a smaller camera, the XL1s is a bear to handle sometimes.
My hesitation is that if HD is the standard in another year or so then I will have wasted money.
Unfortunately, the real clincher is that I have already started telling customers that we will be shooting HD by spring.

I am now counting down the hours before I press the "buy" button! The pressure... can't ...take...the...PRESSURE!!!!

Hi Mark. OK then, in that case you should get good results with the XH-A1. It's a nice camera, I've been using one for just over 2 years and still love the results it gives me (especially in HD). It is a bit noisy though, so watch out for that (use coring and NR when needed) when the lighting is not so good.

Richard

Sorry, but I have to oppose some of the statements here.
True is: Using the factory setup, the A1 gives poor results in SD (PAL).
True is also: If you alter the setup in a good way (which does NOT mean to use / increase NR and coring - the opposite is true, at least for the PAL version), it'll give you really good results in SD. I am using it for professional tv productions since nearly two years now- not a single complaint from clients so far.

Just pulled the trigger on the A1.
It's a big gamble, but I like to live on the edge!
Thanks for the links michael, they were very helpful.
I think I will need to keep the XL1s with me at receptions just in case I need it for the super low light conditions.
If the A1 is at least a little better than the XL1s it will be a steal at $2999 (B&H) since I paid almost 4K for the XL.

Jan, very interested to know what settings you found for SD (although ours is NTSC it might be applicable). We're just not happy with the SD results in the A1 although the HDV is excellent and we are otherwise very happy with the cameras after more than two years with them. If there is a magic formula to sharpen up our somewhat mushy-looking sd, for those occasions where we have to record SD (pool video to share with the local tv stations, for example) we'd love to hear it! //Battle Vaughan/miamiherald.com video team

Mark Ganglfinger,
Don't forget the training DVD!
Studio Daily Store | VASST | Inside the Canon XHA1 and XHG1 (http://www.studiodaily.com/store/vendor/6/146.html)

Remember : Auto Gain Control To OFF! Page 60 in the manuel " It can ruin some shots leaving it on"

Best to You!

Mark Ganglfinger,


Remember : Auto Gain Control To OFF! Page 60 in the manuel " It can ruin some shots leaving it on.

Fortunately, the first thing I learned to to when I started wedding video was to run on manual all the time (usually riding the shutter speed), Nothing on "auto", hopefully the controls are laid out in such a way to make this easy.

Congrats, Mark! Looking forward to seeing some footage from ya.

Hey Mark,

I am new with my xha1....I shoot in hd mode, edit in hd, and render to mpeg2 mainconcept ntsc widescreen (all in vegas) and the footage looks fantastic whether on my high def 42" 720p tv or 19" colored tv(letter boxed). I just don't want you to think that you have to shoot sd to get sd. My first day shooting with my camera, I was zoomed in 30 ft away and could see small bugs crawling around on the ground, clear as day. I was blown away. Here is a link to my vimeo page that shows some of the footage and a low light test that I did. Hope this helps you make an informed decision.

Michael Hutson on Vimeo (http://www.vimeo.com/user1090961)

best regards,
Michael

Michael,
How do u downconvert to SD? My trials have produced very soft footage

Sorry, but I have to oppose some of the statements here.
True is: Using the factory setup, the A1 gives poor results in SD (PAL).
True is also: If you alter the setup in a good way (which does NOT mean to use / increase NR and coring - the opposite is true, at least for the PAL version), it'll give you really good results in SD. I am using it for professional tv productions since nearly two years now- not a single complaint from clients so far.

I'd also love to know what those settings are Jan!

Congrats, Mark! Looking forward to seeing some footage from ya.


For $500 I can produce a whopper of a wedding video, but nothing I would want to post on this forum!
My clients are very happy, but when I when I look at my stuff after its been burned to DVD I cringe.

Michael,
How do u downconvert to SD? My trials have produced very soft footage

David,
Here is my workflow, David. Keep in mind that I shoot in hd, edit in hd, then render to ntcs dvd-widescreen.....I like my footage in widescreen format as the end result(when viewed on widescreen tv(16:9)=full screen widescreen ; when viewed on SD tv(4:3)=wide screen(letterboxed).

Note: My NLE is Vegas 7 and use DVDA4.

1. In Vegas, create a new project. PROJECT PROPERTIES: HDV 1080-60i (1440x1080, 29.970 fps)
2. Place my HD footage (16:9)on the timeline and edit.
3. I render the video using TYPE: MainConcept MPEG2, TEMPLATE: DVD Architect NTSC Widescreen video stream.
4. I render the audio using TYPE: Dolby Ditigal AC-3, TEMPLATE: Stereo DVD. (IMPORTANT: Name the audio file(ac3) with the same name as the MPEG2 video file. Doing it this way will allow DVDA to automatically pull the .ac3 file to the timeline when you pull the mpeg2 file to the timeline)

5. I then open DVDA and drop the file into the timeline and hit "Make DVD."(Grab the mpeg2 file.....then the ac3 should go with it)


Note: When you render your project in the mpeg2 format as above, DVDA does not have to re-render the timeline....It will write it straight to DVD, which means one less rendering step in your project.

I use this workflow upon the suggestion from the vegas forum here a long time ago. It was the first workflow method I tried when I got my xha1 for Christmas and it worked!.....so I have not used any other work flow when going to dvd.(Don't fix it if it's not broken theory)

I hope this helps you, David. Please post whether this works for you.

Regards,
Michael

yeah, Michael this is very clear. In terms of posting on Vimeo, did you just load up an interlaced format? Or did u de-interlace (progressive) scan convert you work?

This will answer all your questions about editing to vimeo:

TUTORIALS: Vimeo HD exporting guides from many editors in the Vimeo Technical Help Forum (http://www.vimeo.com/forums/topic:3671)

This should answer all your questions.

good luck,
Michael (going to watch football now)

Hi everyone. My first post here. I have read all the posts I can here about the picture quality of the Canon XHA1 in both HDV and SD. I understand that I'll get better results if I shoot in HDV, edit in HDV and downconvert to SD for delivery at the end. I sure do that with FCP 6 and compressor since I already own a Canon HV30 and it's great.

But for events -weddings, conferences, some small budget commercials for a local tv station I need to get a professional looking camera. A fact of life! I have been using an XL-1, A classic no doubt! but clients take me seriously!
But now, it's time to upgrade and the XHA1 is what I can afford but I'm concernded about the SD quality because some clients just need the footage on SD- not HDV.

I read here that the 4:3 SD footage with the XH A1 is not very good...I can live with that, but could anyone tell me how good the 16:9 SD footage from the XH A1 is compared to footage from a dvx100 (in 4:3 SD)? Not the same ratio I understand, but in terms of clarity, definition, sharpness..etc... (the XL-1 is too soft to compare!).

If the 16:9 SD is good then for those clients who just want the footage in SD,I can give them nice 16:9 footage- but I get concerned when some people here have described the SD footage from the XH A1 as "muddy" and too soft...

thanks for your input...great forums.

E

Erick I can say that the SD footage in 16:9 on the A1 is better than that shot in 4:3; I guess that's because it is native 16:9 and the chips handle it better. You can get an OK image by going into the custom presets to sharpen things up but the downside is that that increases noise. The main thing I adjusted is coring which seemed to be the key to the mushiness people mentioned. But I can't say I was entirely satisfied.

Geoff

Well, I did get the A1.
I planned on posting some side by side footage of the A1 and the XL1s for others who might be in the same situation as myself, but alas, my computer won't even capture HDV footage let alone edit it! (currently saving pennies for a new computer now)

FWIW, it will post a few of my observations anyway.
I don't get the concerns about low light performance. It seemed noticably better than the XL1s. I haven't had a chance to edit the tape yet, so maybe I will see a difference in the computer, but in the camera it looks fine. Maybe it is possible that in HD the grain stands out more? I did notice that 12db was pushing the limit, and whoever thought of putting 36db as an option must have been on something good!
The auto-focus seems to be much better than the XL1s.
The iris ring is AWESOME!
It feels like a toy! I've seen playschool products that felt sturdier than this thing. My Xl1s and my GL1 both feel much more solid than the A1. My XL1s even took a fall from over 6 feet, bouncing off pavement and was shooting a wedding 5 minutes later. I doubt the A1 is going to handle this type of abuse.
Setting both cams to 16:9 SD, they looked pretty compatible for a mult-cam shoot. The overall pictures looked similar except the A1 being sharper.

For the money, I am very pleased and will probably buy another one.

you can see pictures from JVC GY-200 (SD 16:9) and XH-A1 (SD 16:9), resize to 200pct, side by side.

Thats quite a difference Paul. Fortunately there is over a 2K price difference between the 2 cams and the JVC is way out of my price range, otherwise I would be bummed.

I am curious if anyone can vouch for the claim that the A1 is exactly the same image quality as the XL-H1. Is the difference really only in the features available?

You are wrong. JVC is there only becouse I use this two camcorders.

This mistake has only Canon Xh-A1, all other camcorders are ok.

FX1, Z1, and so on.

It feels like a toy! I've seen playschool products that felt sturdier than this thing. My Xl1s and my GL1 both feel much more solid than the A1. My XL1s even took a fall from over 6 feet, bouncing off pavement and was shooting a wedding 5 minutes later. I doubt the A1 is going to handle this type of abuse.

Mark, Don't worry, the XHA1 is pretty tough. There is a video of a guy dropping one from over 6 feet and continuing to film ( i think it even shows it from the camera POV & someone was also filming him). His tripod head broke while he was holding it up in the air to get a over the shoulder shot.

Hi Battle, Hi Geofffrey,

sorry for the late reply, I had a lot of work to do. I wouldn't call it a 'magic formula', but the settings do at least work for a public broadcaster, that has got quite strict technical regulations, although they seem to be a little bit more tolerant regarding videojounalists like me, compared with a regular ENG team. Plus, the 'dv route' ends after recording. The edited reports are directly transferred from AVID MC to a Digibeta VCR. Sound- and picture quality are checked afterwards on High-End equipment. And altered, if necessary.

The settings were sorted out with the help of a professional cameraman:

GAM:1
KNE: A
BlK: P
Ped: 3
Set:0
SHP:5
HDF: M
DHV:4
COR:-7
NR1:0
NR2:0
CMX: N

.... the rest remains unchanged. Would really like to know, what you think about it.

Regards,

Jan

P.S. Last but not least, I fixed the the AGC switch with tape. After it had nearly 'killed me' one job ;-)

going back to the wedding question:

record now in HD and on the (hopefully still) happy couple's 5th or 10th anniversary - when HD screens will be in every home - you can offer them an HD version of their wedding video.

Another income stream...

Ian
Festival Video and Audio Previews - Festival Previews Ltd (http://www.festivalpreviews.com)