There has been mention of a "big brother" to the recently announced GY-HM100.

Preliminary GY-HM700 Features:

1. Compact shoulder form factor of less than 4 kg (8.9 lbs.) in operation
2. High quality 1/3” progressive 3CCD with unique JVC’s H/V spatial offset
3. Newly developed 14x high-quality interchangeable lens by Canon
4. Newly developed high-quality LCOS viewfinder
5. Newly developed large LCD display
6. Double-memory hybrid recording system using optional KA-MR100G SxS memory card recorder
7. HD SDI output, SD down-convert capability over IEEE 1394 interface, USB 2.0 interface

The GY-HM700 is scheduled for delivery in March 2009. More details will be released by JVC in February 2009.

JVC Press Release - New Final-Cut-Pro™-Ready Solid State Camcorders (http://pro.jvc.com/pro/pr/2009/releases/solid_state_release.html)

I figured it was only a matter of time before JVC released their own sold-state camcorders. But darn, I wish it had at least 1/2" chips. Is that "spacial offset" technology similar to what Panasonic does to their HVX line?

I concur with Glen. Part of the original appeal, for me, of ProHD over HVX (besides the expensive P2 media) was the 1280 X 720 resolution being delivered on actual 1280 X 720 chips.

Mind you, I think that there is definite validity to spatial offset technology. Definite validity. But I was really hoping that JVC was going to go with 1/2" chips with actual 1920 X 1080 pixels - a la Sony's PMW-EX1/3 range. Especially for the improved low light performance (of 1/2" sensors over 1/3" sensors).

The big positive of these new JVC models is the solid state recording. No more "mid-clip breaks" when capturing from tape using FCP!

There are so many benefits with ProHD and the only two real downsides for me with the original ProHD cams were low-light performance and tape capture problems with FCP. JVC have just solved one of them (capture) with the new models and I'm hoping Tim can test a pre-release HM700 to see whether newer technology has improved the low-light performance of 1/3" chips.

I'm also keen to know if JVC's implementation of spatial offset technology - "JVC’s unique H/V spatial offset" - will be superior to Panasonic's implementation of spatial offset.

I've seen side-by-side comparisons of HVX200 1080p on 1/3" chips against PMW-EX1 1080p on 1/2" chips:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/802600-post1.html

In that test, the HVX200 was very noticeably softer. But I have a lot of faith in the JVC engineers, so I'd love to see side-by-side 1080p testing of HM700, HVX200 and PMW-EX1 for low-light response and comparative resolution, if at all possible.

Anyway, one thing is for sure. Anyone looking to upgrade their camera in 2009 is going to be spoiled for choices!

But I was really hoping that JVC was going to go with 1/2" chips with actual 1920 X 1080 pixels - a la Sony's PMW-EX1/3 range.
I believe the number one appeal of this camera is the physical size. With the progressive chip, all the other format support, PCM audio, and answers to a lot of the complaints of the previous generation of cameras in this range, this camera fills a need as yet unanswered.

It would not have been smart, in my view, to go up against Sony and come in second. Because of its size and auto features, this camera can support just about every other camera on the market and I predict -- providing the camera does what it is supposed to do -- will be a market leader in this new class.
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SORRY, this post was meant for the other new JVC camera!!!
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I was able to have a hands-on inspection of the Panny HCM-150 the other night. For 1/3" chips, it has amazing low-light capabilities. If the JVC LoLux can approximate the 150, it should be pretty good, but I do like the depth of field you can get with larger chips.

I was able to have a hands-on inspection of the Panny HCM-150 the other night. For 1/3" chips, it has amazing low-light capabilities. If the JVC LoLux can approximate the 150, it should be pretty good, but I do like the depth of field you can get with larger chips.
I like the depth of field you get with the smaller chips.

Sidney Lumet said that he prepares shooting in HD video over film because of the greater depth of field he gets with video. (See extra features on the "Before the Devil Knows Your Dead" DVD.)

It has been my experience that you get greater depth of field with the smaller chips. Larger chips seem to decrease the depth of field, causing all kinds of problems in some situations.

no more 1/3inch chips and non pcm audio. These are awesome camera's thus the reason I have one, but anything that smacks of pixel shifting I'm not interested in, the higher 35mbps bitrate is a good progression and obvious with Discovery etc accepting it, but to keep in the race definitely need a min of 1/2inch chips, and pcm audio!

I wonder what the price will be and how it compares in low light to the current JVC cameras. Also maybe thats why I got a special offer from Focus tech. on their JVC on board drive, maybe they know those products have a limited life expentancy.

Hope the "spatial offset" is only for 1080- and we don't lose the native pixel 1280x720. That was a big reason I've gone for ProHD over DVCProHD: the off-sets on the hvx and hpx produce an image that's just a little soft to my eye.

no more 1/3inch chips and non pcm audio. These are awesome camera's thus the reason I have one, but anything that smacks of pixel shifting I'm not interested in, the higher 35mbps bitrate is a good progression and obvious with Discovery etc accepting it, but to keep in the race definitely need a min of 1/2inch chips, and pcm audio!

I wonder if Discovery HD would accept a 1/3" chip cam for main acquisition, even if the bitrate is 35mps. They're pretty strict.

Remember the Sony JVC alliance announced at IBC and JVC's SxS recorder?
Hasn't anyone noticed that JVC is going with the XDCAM EX codec?

Sony's looking to make that codec the next Beta stretching from Betamax to Betacam. They're battling with AVC and Panasonic.

I'll bet both Sony and Panasonic are courting Canon.

Doesn't anyone find it interesting that JVC announces this at CES? Think about the motives.

I wonder if Discovery HD would accept a 1/3" chip cam for main acquisition, even if the bitrate is 35mps. They're pretty strict.

They already do with "Little People, Big World" which is shot with both the GYHD200 and GYHD250, and that's 720p 24 at 19Mbps.

Doesn't anyone find it interesting that JVC announces this at CES?

Just to keep the records straight, the introduction of the GYHM100 was done at the Final Cut Pro User Group SuperMeet in San Francisco. JVC Professional Products Company did not make any announcements at CES and the ProHD gear was only on display at the SuperMeet.

By the way, JVC Professional will next be at Sundance with the HM100 and GYHD250 cine rig from Friday, Jan. 16 to Sunday, Jan. 18th at the New York Lounge, 545-B Main St., Park City. We'll be there under the Variety Magazine banner. Come check us out!

They already do with "Little People, Big World" which is shot with both the GYHD200 and GYHD250, and that's 720p 24 at 19Mbps.

Yes, it is. But that show is already established - in it's 4th season, I think - so they might have gotten a special pass from Discovery.
Still, for a network that frowns on HDV and 1/3" chips, two of it's bigger hits - The Deadliest Catch, and Little People - use that format.

Yes, it is. But that show is already established - in it's 4th season, I think - so they might have gotten a special pass from Discovery.
Still, for a network that frowns on HDV and 1/3" chips, two of it's bigger hits - The Deadliest Catch, and Little People - use that format.

I bet (no first hand knowledge with Discovery) that it's just like stating minimum requirements for job postings. State the best match as a minimum and see who actually shows up and go from there. Also I know some other channels state "DVCPRO-HD or HD-CAM etc" but what they really mean is the final version is in that tape format (sorry HVX-200's tape only please?) and as long as no one questions the quality of the production or image quality and no auto iris/focus/auto I think they really don't care that much. That does NOT mean they accept uprezzed however. That being said, shooting with CineAlta with super duper lenses means that they are going to take it more seriously. But in the end they want something entertaining to fill slots on budget preferably cheaper the better.

I bet (no first hand knowledge with Discovery) that it's just like stating minimum requirements for job postings. State the best match as a minimum and see who actually shows up and go from there. Also I know some other channels state "DVCPRO-HD or HD-CAM etc" but what they really mean is the final version is in that tape format (sorry HVX-200's tape only please?) and as long as no one questions the quality of the production or image quality and no auto iris/focus/auto I think they really don't care that much. That does NOT mean they accept uprezzed however. That being said, shooting with CineAlta with super duper lenses means that they are going to take it more seriously. But in the end they want something entertaining to fill slots on budget preferably cheaper the better.

I understand what you're saying, but many of the HD networks - Discovery, History Channel, BBC, etc. - have very strict parameters on what cameras they allow for acquisition. All of them pretty much state that they will not allow HDV (including the HPX200, although this may be do to the pixel-shifting) or even Super 16 film for more than 10% of a program's content. I've heard from one producer who said ESPN HD won't accept cameras below 2/3" chip size, but who knows.

That said, what I find interesting is the fact Discovery HD allows XDCAM HD and EX content for full acquisition (on Silver level programs), assuming it's shot at full 35mbs.
Lo and behold, here comes the HM700 with pretty much the same capture parameters as the XDCAM line - 1080i/720p at 35mbs, long-GOP. Except, the chip size is smaller. So, how will this new camera be treated? As previously stated, the HD200/250 are already in full use on a TLC HD program and it seems to do just fine. I own an HD200, so the wider acceptance this camera has, the better for me.
If the low light performance of the HM700 is several steps above the HD200 line, then this camera sounds like a winner. Gotta love the SDHD capture medium.

Just to chip in here that I'm very excited about the evolution to new product here. It's bittersweet of course, when you don't have the "latest & greatest" model anymore, but it's been a good ride!
The higher bit rate formats are what I find exciting. I'm happy to stay with the family of interchangeable 1/3" lenses, and the compromises of this chip size. In the real world, often DOF is your friend with HD.... We have the awesome 13x lens, the 16mm PL converter, and 3rd party SLR adapters for great telephoto capabilities.
Economy and and size are nicely balanced as well. I don't think the interchangeable 1/2" glass is out there yet, and that's a hurdle.
I'll be interested to get more exact specs on this camera. Especially the imaging chip. If it's native 720p, with spatial offset to make 1080, it could be right in the ballpark. Of course, most of us know the proof is in the final mix, and the strength of the weakest link often determines the result.

Re Discovery, or any high end buyer, there are specs, and there are other factors. It's a complex formula of percentages and the subject matter/uniqueness is a major factor. Your personal track record carries a lot of weight too. I wouldn't ever suggest deceit in delivery, but having awesome cinematography in your presentation could go a long way.

The HM-700 can record to both SDHD and SxS cards, correct? Is there an inherent advantage to recording to either format, besides initial costs?

SxS can handle overcranking but I don't see S&Q feature listed on the JVC cameras. If the JVC cameras don't use S&Q then I think there's little reason to go SxS. SxS through an Express port on a laptop does transfer faster since it's PCIe so that might be of value if you're doing ENG work with very short turnaround. It might help if you're doing Same Day Edits on weddings too. Then you could shoot ceremony on SxS and the rest on SDHC.

The HM-700 can record to both SDHD and SxS cards, correct? Is there an inherent advantage to recording to either format, besides initial costs?

The HM-700 can record to both SDHD and SxS cards, correct? Is there an inherent advantage to recording to either format, besides initial costs?

SxS can handle up to 2.5Gbps (2500Mbps) transfer speed when connected to a PCI express bus so that is approaching the speed of SATA drives. By comparison USB2.0 is 480Mbps, firewire400 is 400Mbps and firewire800 is 800Mbps. The speed of the SDHC cards required for use with the HM series is minimum class 6. All frame rates, bit rates and formats the camera can write should be available on both types of cards.

The other advantage of SxS over SDHC is the physically larger size and overall rigidity of the card. Of course SxS is much more expensive than SDHC, and not widely available at every consumer retail outlet (from Walmart to BestBuy) like SDHC.

Thinking loud...
How about skipping the HM-700 and buy the nano flash when it is out?
Cheaper solution for: higher bit rate flash card recording, and if I am not mistaken the ability to record to Quicktime.

Thanks.

Johnnie

Thinking loud...
How about skipping the HM-700 and buy the nano flash when it is out?
Cheaper solution for: higher bit rate flash card recording, and if I am not mistaken the ability to record to Quicktime.


If you already own a HD250. HD-SDI is required for the Convergent-Design boxes.

MacVideo - Camera Technology - Features - JVC introduce the GY-HM100; the world's first camera to record high quality native QuickTime files for immediate editing within Final Cut Pro (http://www.macvideo.tv/camera-technology/features/index.cfm?articleId=109356)

Speaking of the HD 200/250, there's a silouette of the 700 towards the of Craig's HM 100 presentation where he alludes to the "big brother" camera. TO my eyes it looked like the outline of the HD 200.

It would make sense to keep the same form factor to me.

[url=http://www.macvideo.tv/camera-technology/features/index.cfm?articleId=109356]Speaking of the HD 200/250, there's a silouette of the 700 towards the of Craig's HM 100 presentation where he alludes to the "big brother" camera. TO my eyes it looked like the outline of the HD 200.

It would make sense to keep the same form factor to me.

Yes, we've kept the footprint and the lens mount the same, as well as the Anton Bauer Gold Mount to keep all of the accessories interchangeable. The internal circuitry has been newly designed to implement the new processing technology and increase the resolution of the captured images. JVC has invested in a new chip design for both the HM700 and HM100, as I had stated in my SuperMeet presentation. You'll also find more tangible feature advancements when the model rolls out.

Please, let one of those feature advancements be better low light sensitivity.

What about us IDX - V-mount users? Do we have to switch to Anton Bauer if we go with the 700?

Dennis Tzeng
dennis@thinkhero.com
http://www.thinkhero.com

I bought a V-mount adapter for my HD200 from JVC, so I'm assuming you can do the same for this camera. If not, B&H Photo sells A/B to V-mount adapters. So, no, you don't have to give up V-mounts.

Yes, it is. But that show is already established - in it's 4th season, I think - so they might have gotten a special pass from Discovery.
Still, for a network that frowns on HDV and 1/3" chips, two of it's bigger hits - The Deadliest Catch, and Little People - use that format.
I don't think any network is going to frown on quality content. Networks are looking anything that is quality now since more and more people are turning away from the trash. Even commercials are getting trashy.

2c

Discovery HD/History/TLC and others have some of the more stringent requirments for accuisition, however many of their top shows are shot 100% in HDV. Anthony Bordain (used to be DVCPROHD, now Sony HDV), Man Vs Wild (Sony HDV, he likes the cameras because they are disposable), Deadliest Catch (HDV primarly) and others mentioned earlier. so I stress it's content more than anything else. SciFi's Ghost Hunters is I believe DVCPROHD with HVX200's... I think... they were in SD just the Panasonic DV30's for 80% of the broadcast.

That being said, I don't know of any broadcaster useing AVCHD. Also most or all of the shows above after editing are output to one of thier accepted formats. This can cost $150 per hour in conversion to full sized tape. (often more)

Now if you shoot with a HPX-500 or better camera and you are pitching the idea with the minimum full length 5 episode sample, it will get it looked at first. No question. But a good show, shot correctly within the limits of HDV technology or 1/3 chip or even 1/4 chip design, I think you will be fine. If your show gets picked up, they may or may not even air your 5 eps, but give you money with a new list of requriments to shoot 5 more to thier liking. As long as your tape (they stilld don't like HDD's shipped in the mail) works seemlessly with their workflow and the results are good, I haven't heard of a problem. Outputting to film (a thing I believe will be perfected about the same time theaters switch to digital projectors completly and hence be meaningless) it is a different story.

Personally I'm quite interested in the 700 specs. What chip size, dynamic range etc.
As far as they comments on too much money for the HM100, the similar camera, the Sony XDCAM-EX is around $7,500 or more. It does have 1080p 1/2 chips and is a dandy of a camera, no question, but it's basically twice as much. JVC has given us the same workflow and a probably a nice image (with lower res/size chips) for 50% of the list price. Nothing to complain about here.

I doubt that direct competition between companies is intended by the companies.

For that matter, it would seem likely that part of the licensing deal JVC has with Sony precludes the manufacture of a 1/2" camera that would be in direct competition with the Sony cameras.

JVC is offering a new professional product that is missing (the small, multiformat camera with detachable handle) and the planned upgrade to the shoulder mount HD line. (As a matter of fact, I was told over a year ago by a JVC rep that a full 1080p was on the big plan for the shoulder mount camera.) 1/3" chip technology will likely improve, not degrade and the top 1/3" Fujinon lenses are pretty good for a modest price when compared to comparable 1/2" lenses.

For that matter, who has rights to the lanc interface? Perhaps the lack of lanc on the new JVC small camera is part of the deal.

For that matter, who has rights to the lanc interface? Sony owns it; Canon has the right to use it. JVC and Panasonic have never had LANC, unless I'm mistaken.

Does anyone know why JVC abandoned Fujinon lenses and went with Canon on the 700?

I wouldn't say they've "abandoned" Fujinon -- these cameras are freely interchangeable between Canon and Fuji glass, so you can stick whatever lens on that you want. Camera companies usually make deals with lens companies in advance for a particular stock, out of the box configuration... previously JVC went with Fujinon for the GY-HD series, and now they're going with Canon for the HM700 this time around as the lens du jour. The HM100's built-in lens is still a Fujinon though. Ultimately you can have it any way you like, be it Fuji, Canon or whatever... as long as it's a 1/3rd-inch broadcast mount that resolves for 1080 (or 1/2" with an adapter plus the resulting crop factor).

Canon has had lenses specifically for the JVC 1/3" HD cameras (and I suppose the Sony Z7 or Z270) since NAB 2007.

I'm really hoping there is a camera-only configuration available when the HM700 is first released.

I wonder if Discovery HD would accept a 1/3" chip cam for main acquisition, even if the bitrate is 35mps. They're pretty strict.

Discovery is airing a lot of material shot with lesser of the equipment. As the example you can see "The Deadliest Catch" and "Iceroad Truckers" and "Everest" As the matter of fact most of Everest was shot in HDV (Canon as I recall), some of the footage from the summit with a single chip pocket camera. Content will go a long way with them, of course don't expect to get paid top $$$ if your footage will require a lot of tweaking by their broadcast engineers. Also a big role plays (as usual) past history of work with such channels. Anyway- content will play a major role anyhow.

I'm really hoping there is a camera-only configuration available when the HM700 is first released.

Amen to that. If the stock Canon is significantly better than the Fuji 16x5.5, I may buy the kit JUST to have an option to move lenses around, otherwise, I'll just use one of my 16x Fuji's until I settle on whether to do the Fuji 13x wide or spend the big cash on the 18x4.2.

Do we know what the focal length of the Canon lens will be at widest - details just seem to say "14x"?

Wider than the 5.5mm of the Fujinon standard lens... please!?

We don't know yet. Probably a little bit wider since we've all complained for four years about how 5.5mm isn't really wide enough for EFP/ENG work.

Argh! My favorite prosumer HD(v) camera gets a well deserved update and I'm already too in love with HD DSLRs! Why, oh, why!?

But seriously, this looks great. As far as image quality goes, I've always preferred JVC's cameras over any of the other indie filmmaker choices, with the EX1 and EX3 being the exception as they, in my opinion, succeeded in putting an F900 into the sub-$10,000 arena. JVC also accessorized the heck out of the HD200 series too over time as well. If there is enough of an image quality bump, this could be the camera to beat for a lot of folks. Also, if anyone doubts the significance of this series of cameras getting upgraded to 1080p, please go out and rent or Netflix the action film "Gabriel" and see what the JVC cameras can really do.

As far as some of the concerns about the sensor size staying 1/3", I agree, it would have been nice to have JVC bump to 1/2" sensors but, hey, it's hard to complain with a release date so soon. Also, I'm really looking forward to checking out the handheld JVC camera they announced as well. Bravo, JVC, bravo!

I applaud the release of another camera to the marketplace, but at the same time, does the marketplace really need another 1/3" chip camera?

I guess the technical hurdles are too large to make it work financially, but the 1/2" chip size has been left in the dust.

I am sure it will be a nice product, but the price will determine a lot.

, please go out and rent or Netflix the action film "Gabriel" and see what the JVC cameras can really do.


the funny part they taped Gabriel only a few weeks after the HD100 was first released and with I believe the stock lens recorded HDV to tape. They had a huge problem editing because Final Cut Pro wasn't HDV compatible yet. The movie still looked good to great with very little prep time on the equipment and workflow etc.

Hmm reminds me, I think someone borrowed that DVD and I can't remember who has it... Hmm...

If you already own a HD250. HD-SDI is required for the Convergent-Design boxes.

The Nano flash also HDMI input I believe so would be OK for the 100/200 series?

Steve

The Nano flash also HDMI input I believe so would be OK for the 100/200 series?


The HD100/200 series don't have HDMI. In fact, none of the JVC HDxxx series cameras have HDMI out. The HD250/251 has HD-SDI out. The HD100/110/200/201 has analog component.

Sean. I clarified your post above to be specific to 'HD" series cameras. The new HM100 has HDMI out but I'm not sure about the HM700 (it does have HD-SDI though.)

I suppose that was one bit of short-sightedness from JVC not putting an HD out of some sort on the HD100/200. I remeber when the Canon XL-H1 came out, folks were raving about the HDSDI out more than just about anything else - and with the advent of the likes of the Flash XDR etc., you can really see why now.
Steve

Thanks Tim. The new cameras are going to take some getting used to, from a point of nomenclature.

PS. Does the HD1xx series have analog component out, as you have appended my previous statement? I thought they only had composite.

PS. Does the HD1xx series have analog component out, as you have appended my previous statement? I thought they only had composite.
Yep. Component YRB as well.

What happened to the pic of the camera? And the posts that talked about it?
The pic is gone from the Australian JVC website.

I suppose that was one bit of short-sightedness from JVC not putting an HD out of some sort on the HD100/200. I remeber when the Canon XL-H1 came out, folks were raving about the HDSDI out more than just about anything else - and with the advent of the likes of the Flash XDR etc., you can really see why now.
Steve

Yes but it made the camera more expensive then the HD100 at that time.
Now there are more levels to choose out at JVC including HD-SDI options.
Which gives you exactly what you pay for.

What happened to the pic of the camera?Removed per request of JVC. Apparently it was *not* representative of the camera's final design. Of course we'll have plenty of pics on hand immediately upon its official unveiling.