Wow. Sorry JVC, but it looks like someone dropped the ball on this one. ONLY native FCP recording without an extra $1500? Would it have really killed you to have added another format, such as MXF? Wouldn't that have opened up the horizons a little instead of limiting them?

What I really don't understand is why the smaller camera has this option, but the larger one does not?

I don't use a mac and I don't buy products specifically designed for macs. Looks like I'm going to have to see about buying a separate digital recorder since this purchase has been taken off the table. Maybe I'd think about it if they realize their mistake and add additional recording options, although I don't know how that fits in with their licencing deals.

It's a beautiful camera and I love the idea of it, although it doesn't fit into my work flow at all and I believe I am speaking for a lot of other people who have similar work flows that I do.

From JVC Press Release:

"By attaching the optional KA-MR100 dockable media recorder, it is possible to record Sony XDCAM EX compatible .MP4 files onto high-speed SxS memory cards, while at the same time recording the same .MP4 files to inexpensive SDHC cards. Having two copies instantaneously available provides more versatility in the field with the assurance of always having a back-up. "

I'm confused. Maybe you don't need the SXS to record XDCAM EX 35mbit. Hopefully we'll get more clarification from JVC or Tim and Chris Hurd,

Interesting. Avid does import .MOV files...but, it would be nice to have the option of shooting in a native editing format. Someone needs to work on some software that will remove the quicktime wrapper w/ an alternate native wrapper. "Unclipwrap"?

Can't wait to see footage from this camera. I'm very excited.

Does anyone know what the second file format extension is when using the HM100 or HM700? The cameras are obviously .mov compatible, but I'm confused as to what we get on the PC side. What does "ISO based" mean? On the HM700 page it states that it can record to XDCAM EX compatible .mp4 files only with the optional SxS recorder. What is the extension going to be when shooting to the SDHC cards?

You act like PC's can't use .mov files. They can and do so quite easily. In fact, if the camera is using prores, you should be able to drop that into any NLE that is quicktime aware.

I've said it before, I'll say it again: I am SO excited about this news, both the 100 & 700. I sincerely expect to own 2 - 700's and 1 or 2 100's by the end of the fiscal year. I've kludged through more than 6 months of my 200's not playing nice with FCP without ProRes and I'm THRILLED to have a solid state solution WITH HD-SDI that finally plays nice with FCP. Oh, and 20% wider stock lens! Maybe I'm drinking the Kool-Aid but I drank Sony's for years so...

quote:
"Drawing from its experience in developing rack mount encoders used by major television stations, JVC developed a proprietary codec capable of providing highly efficient compression up to 35 megabits per second, a bitrate that can support full 1920 x 1080 sampling. This results in recorded images of exceptional quality."

So is this their codec or Sony's??

and for current ProHd owners, even though with peaking turned up the evf works fine, but can we bolt the new evf onto our existing cameras? More is always better agreed! And the current evf is a known weakenss when it comes to durability, so if one breaks, can one replace it with the new evf instead?


and quote:
"New high resolution LCOS viewfinder
The GY-HM700 is equipped with a new, rugged high resolution viewfinder based on a new .45-inch 1.22 million pixel Liquid Crystal on Silicon (LCOS) panel (852 x 480 x 3). This new all-digital viewfinder displays images with more than 5 times the resolution of typical color viewfinders. Its sturdy reinforced die-cast aluminum chassis and LED light source ensure years of trouble-free operation. A serial digital interface means there's no quality loss, even with razor sharp graphic overlays"

Is there anything native to FCP besides ProRes?

Here is what I am thinking. I am thinking that JVC has "developed" a 35 MBPS ProRes. This might seem crazy at first, but it's uncanny how ProRes and Avid's DNxHD codec tend to mirror each other for bitrates. Avid has a 36 Mpbs proxy size. Would it be a tough stretch to think that maybe JVC has licensed the ProRes code and come in with a 35/36 Mpbs ProRes to offer native FCP recording? And then add SxS Long-GOP recording at extra cost to support the PC side?

Honestly, if the FCP native codec IS ProRes, then nothing further need be done for PCs I don't think. PC's can already read ProRes thanks to Apple opening up the decode portion of the codec. I wonder if this little project was a catalyst for that happening.

quote:
... JVC developed a proprietary codec ...

So is this their codec or Sony's??Proprietary in that it'll go directly to an SDHC card. XDCAM is Sony's codec, but only JVC writes it to SDHC (without an Express Card adapter).

Chris, just to confirm. You are saying the HM700 can save EITHER .mov OR JVC's XDCAM variant to SDHD, WITHOUT the SxS recorder?

So, I wouldn't need to buy the SxS add-on if I want to record XDCAM to SDHD?

JVC Professional Color Brochures page (http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/color_broch.jsp?model_id=MDL101851&feature_id=12)


Link to full brochure above. .

The brochure is worded in a very confusing fashion. I think it depends on your definition of native file format. But note: HQ mode:1920 x 1080/59.94i (.mov only),So it appears that some of the resolutions can only be recorded in .mov anyway.

So, that just means a slower import/transcode in Avid vs. native QT FCP.

Native file recording—world's fastest shoot-to-edit workflow.
! Native Final Cut Pro format
Edit immediately without conversion or transcoding
! .MP4 file format
Available with optional SxS Media Recorder (This is the part that is confusing)

Are they saying that native .mp4 is only available with sxs or that the option of sxs is available in addition to sdhc and both can record in native .mp4???

Is there a utility that rewraps .mov to .mxf??


Recording media 2x SDHC memory card Class 6
Video recording Video codec: MPEG2 Long GOP
File Format: Quick time format for Final Cut Pro/ISO .MP4 media file format (w/KA-MR100)
Recording mode NTSC setting: HQ mode:1920 x 1080/59.94i (.mov only), 29.97p, 23.98p,
1440 x 1080/59.94i, 1280 x 720/59.94p, 29.97p, 23.98p
SP mode: 1440 x 1080/59.94i, 1280 x 720/59.94p, 29.97p, 23.98p
PAL setting: HQ mode:1920 x 1080/50i (.mov only), 25p
1440 x 1080/50i, 1280 x 720/50p, 25p
SP mode: 1440 x 1080/50i, 1280 x 720/50p, 25p
Audio recording LPCM 2ch, 48kHz, 16-bit.

Also, I noticed that over and undercranking is available to sdhc in 720p. Cool.

Also, I noticed that over and undercranking is available to sdhc in 720p. Cool.

Yes, same as the Sony. Good deal.

I think the hype is reaching maximum altitude. But as the cloud settles down it's going to be a minor improvement over already existing technology. It would have to be an earth shattering difference in picture quality to make me sell (with loss) my pro-hd camera and buy this one. I think Red Scarlet 35 price looks way more appealing in the price range.

Patiently waiting for Tim and Chris to give us the lowdown on the camera!! Very eager to know what she can do!

You act like PC's can't use .mov files. They can and do so quite easily. In fact, if the camera is using prores, you should be able to drop that into any NLE that is quicktime aware.

Why then doesn't JVC just use .mov file format only? I know PC's can use .mov files on import, however, aren't we going to have to render to watch? What camera uses prores to shoot? I thought this was a FCP codec that trancodes to this format.

I am just trying to find out whether my PPro CS3/PC setup will work with these files natively. I do not want to have to render if the files can't be used natively. As far as I can see these are the HD file formats I am able to use in Premiere natively: HDV(m2t), DVCPRO HD(mxf), XDCAM HD(mxf), XDCAM EX(mp4). If indeed the JVC cams can shoot .mp4 files to SDHC I am all set. However, if it uses a format Premiere doesn't support natively, this is unacceptable.

Also, what is the extension going to be if we shoot in 25mb or 19mb mode? Is it still .mp4 or something else? I used to own a JVC GZ7 full hd camera that had a 1920x1080 mode in mpeg2. Unfortunately, the files were stored in a .tod format that Premiere did not recognize and had to be converted to .mpg before import. This was annoying and I am hoping this isn't the case with these new cams.

Continuous Clip Mode- YES!

It can basically shoot one giant clip with cuts included. THANK YOU JVC!

I hate having 1000 clips per project. Hate it, hate it, hate it.

Also- REALLY looking forward to seeing 720p60 at 35Mbps.

Also I had heaps of problems with noise levels in underlight (or darkish) areas of footage from the 251e, very dissapointing, but since setting master black to -3 I have noticed a big difference in lack of noise, at the expense of becoming a less sensitive camera.
Anyone have any comments on this?

Steven, this really belongs in it's own thread. It's been discussed before, but I too have struggled with this. It's mpg2 artifacts that turn up when settings aren't optimized. Mpg2 itself tends to throw out information too soon in these areas, and it gets even uglier if you are then recompressing for dvd.

To get back on point, this is one reason to get very excited about the move to 35mps in the new generation cams. Seat of the pants tells me we won't be facing the bit starvation experienced at 720 60p with the 200 series, and 1080 30p will also be handled with aplomb.

The proof of the pudding will of course be in real life, and I hope to have the chance in the near future. Let me know if there are any specific things you'd like checked if/when I have this brief pre-release opportunity.

The "trade-in" was wild fantasy speculation, without any basis. Please let it die a natural death.

I think the hype is reaching maximum altitude. But as the cloud settles down it's going to be a minor improvement over already existing technology. It would have to be an earth shattering difference in picture quality to make me sell (with loss) my pro-hd camera and buy this one. I think Red Scarlet 35 price looks way more appealing in the price range.
The "Brain" only for the RED Scarlet 35 (smaller 35) is $7000. I don't think the this will be in the same price range as the new JVC camera once a lense, viewfinder, interface, recording device, etc. etc. etc. are added on. Also, not sure ergonmomics are going to be optimum for the kind of uses the new JVC camera is designed for.

Besides that, the specs on the new JVC cameras are so spectacular, I'm not sure image quality will be an issue as to whether one should own these cameras or not. More and more street cred and image are more important than substance, so it may be top drawer to shoot without even recording.

Yes PC's can use QuickTime - HOWEVER: Those of us who use Avid know quite well that it cannot import timecode from quicktime files. I'd rather have something that is compatible and it sounds like a lot of people would also.

The fact that no one from JVC has chimed in yet shows me that it looks like our assumptions are right: if you want to record anything with the Sony codec, you have to buy the Sony hardware. That doesn't do me any good and at that point I'd rather buy the Sony EX Camera, it looks cheaper at that point, plus you can use the SD workaround and shoot just as cheaply.

I think the hype is reaching maximum altitude. But as the cloud settles down it's going to be a minor improvement over already existing technology. It would have to be an earth shattering difference in picture quality to make me sell (with loss) my pro-hd camera and buy this one. I think Red Scarlet 35 price looks way more appealing in the price range.
I beg to differ. The red Scarlet 35 has the stratosphere dominated with hype. The JVC is a very straight ahead and logical evolution of existing technology. We are still dealing with the realities of extreme compression of higher frame rate progressive HD footage here, and the moderate increase paired with compatibility to existing economy flash cards is a practical niche for working professionals.

Jack, I think that scarlet is perhaps the ultimate tool for "shooting without recording" in this price range!

Yes PC's can use QuickTime - HOWEVER: Those of us who use Avid know quite well that it cannot import timecode from quicktime files.
Isn't that an "Avid Arrogance" problem, not a JVC issue?

Convergent Flash XDR Ships With MXF and QT Support -

If Convergent can do it than why can't JVC? Convergent uses the same Sony MPEG 2 codecs.

I don't think it is matter of anyone's arrogance. Possibly, maybe, short-sighteness on JVC's part. Because mxf is used by Avid, Adobe Premiere, After Effects, Canopus Edius and others as the file format for editing the Sony MPEG 2 codecs, among other codecs. So it isn't just Avid that they're possibly leaving out.

We are still dealing with the realities of extreme compression of higher frame rate progressive HD footage here, and the moderate increase paired with compatibility to existing economy flash cards is a practical niche for working professionals.

You nailed it- the compression! It's like you'd try to convince me that jpeg or tiff are the way to go vs RAW in still photography.
With SHXC cards at 2TB and fast write/read speed (way above 35Mb/sec) neither the space or ability to write the signal is no longer the issue.

But as the cloud settles down it's going to be a minor improvement over already existing technology.

Personally, I don't care much about the improvement in technology. Finally a shoulder mounted XDCam EX capable camera that takes industry standard lights, batteries etc. Good enough for me.

The Sony EX cameras write an .mp4 file inside a proprietary folder structure. It's an mpeg2 codec, that writes to an mp4 container. Sony Vegas will NOT import that .mp4 file and it needs a rewrap to MXF. Thus it appears to me that NONE of these NLEs understand the XDCamEX codec and ALL need a rewrap.

Sony's MXF file format will not drop into Avid. Avid's MXF will not drop into Vegas (or anything else from what I can tell).

ProRes QT files apparently will drop into anything, though it is unknown to me if it will drop in with timecode in NLEs other than Avid.

The whole thing is a mess.


Convergent Flash XDR Ships With MXF and QT Support -

If Convergent can do it than why can't JVC? Convergent uses the same Sony MPEG 2 codecs.

I don't think it is matter of anyone's arrogance. Possibly, maybe, short-sighteness on JVC's part. Because mxf is used by Avid, Adobe Premiere, After Effects, Canopus Edius and others as the file format for editing the Sony MPEG 2 codecs, among other codecs. So it isn't just Avid that they're possibly leaving out.

You nailed it- the compression! It's like you'd try to convince me that jpeg or tiff are the way to go vs RAW in still photography.
With SHXC cards at 2TB and fast write/read speed (way above 35Mb/sec) neither the space or ability to write the signal is no longer the issue.
35mb/sec is still Highly compressed. It's still gop based mpg2, not iframe. (Even DVCProHD 100mb/s has compromises). But it's enough to make a major difference in footage results for those of us working on the cutting edge.
Regarding the file formats and codec, I think this is pretty clear:
HD VIDEO RECORDING
Recording media: 2x SDHC memory card Class 6
Video recording:
Video codec: MPEG2 Long GOP
File Format: Quick time format for Final Cut Pro/ISO .MP4 media file format

Many edit systems will support one of the above right now - others may offer it in the near future. To have a robust popular system supporting it natively with this deckless, fast workflow NOW, is more than any new HD format release to date has offered.

Personally, the more I find out, the more I think this camera suits my needs.

Anyone know how many minutes a 32GB card will hold of the highest setting?

The brochure is worded in a very confusing fashion. I think it depends on your definition of native file format.

Here's the statement:

1) Native file recording—world's fastest shoot-to-edit workflow.
Native Final Cut Pro format
Edit immediately without conversion or transcoding


2) .MP4 file format
Available with optional SxS Media Recorder

Here's my take:

1) The camcorder has a built-in JVC MPEG-2 codec that records to SDHC cards. These files are wrapped as .MOV. It is not ProRes! To be edited by FCP, the audio will be PCM.

The JVC data sheet may have an error: "HQ mode:1920 x 1080/59.94i (.mov only)." Same for 50i. My reasoning is that "HQ" is the highest quality XDCAM EX setting and it would make no sense for it not to be supported by .mp4.


2) IF you add the add the SxS Media Recorder, MPEG-2 XDCAM EX data -- are wrapped as .MP4 and recorded to SxS. Both SP (25Mbps) and HQ (35Mbps) are supported.

Therefore, this is a path that's compatible with the Windows/OS X Sony Clip Browser. The Browser imports XDCAM EX for those NLE's -- like FCP via Log & Transfer -- that support native XDCAM EX editing. Premiere, for example, can also natively edit .MP4.

The Browser also can batch convert to other codecs -- such as DNxHD. Bottom-line, once you use the SxS Media Recorder, you get the full XDCAM EX workflows that already exist for your NLE.

I suspect that only 19Mbps (ProHD) and 25Mbps are supported to SDHC cards. IF so, when writing to both SDHC and SxS -- the data rate is limited to 25Mbps.
However, according to Tim Dashwoods first post here:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/jvc-pro-hd-acquisition-systems/141123-specs-new-gy-hm100-prohd-camcorder.html
The GY-HM100 will record 19, 25 and 35Mbps to SDHC cards.

This also includes the ProHD formats and 1440X1080 and 1920x1080 interlaced formats.

Wouldn't it be reasonable to think the HM700 would record these all to SDHC, even though the SXS recorder may add additional options?

Steve,

You could be right if you consider the SXS would handle a higher data rate than SDHC.

I do find it interesting that the HMC 100 can record to SDHC in all flavors without the SXS. It makes me wonder if Sony is twisting JVC's arm to sell SXS.

But this brochure is even more confusing. If you look at the boxed table on page 3 under 35 Mbits, there is an asterik by 1440x1080 60i and 50i that references the note ".mov only"

Which totally contradicts the specifications page that listed 192ox1080i as .mov only and no reference by 1440x1080.

So it is a clear as mud...

Hopefully Steve you will develop one of your great Handbook/Guides series for these cameras like you did for the HD7. It was invaluable. Because we're gonna need one.

Cheers, David

However, according to Tim Dashwoods first post here:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/jvc-pro-hd-acquisition-systems/141123-specs-new-gy-hm100-prohd-camcorder.html
The GY-HM100 will record 29, 25 and 25Mbps to SDHC cards.

This also includes the ProHD formats and 1440X1080 and 1920x1080 interlaced formats.

Wouldn't it be reasonable to think the HM700 would record these all to SDHC, even though the SXS recorder may add additional options?

Jack, I think you typed 29 when you meant 19. Anyway, I've edited my post to reflect your correction. Thank you!


"... even though the SXS recorder may add additional options."

You're right, it's not obvious what the SxS Media Recorder brings to the table if all formats can also be recorded to SDHC. Some thoughts:

Is the SDHC card's FAT32 file system a limitation for long running shots when you to try to use them in FCP? Does FCP's Log & Transfer stitch multiple 4GB files on SDHC together without error?

Will there be media-reference time-code on SDHC files? Or, only intra-clip time-code?

David, it's possible SxS offers important capabilities not required by the 100 buyer or even some 700 buyers. Nevertheless, the Media Recorder may be a "must have" for many shooters.

Anyone know how many minutes a 32GB card will hold of the highest setting?

EX1 does 16GB per hour.

Anyone think the viewfinder could possibly be backwards compatible with the HD200? It doesnt look like it to me, but I can hope.

I am interested to see how the 14x Canon glass performs.

Unfortunately the new LCOS viewfinder is *not* backward-compatible with the GY-HD series cameras.

Chris, just to confirm. You are saying the HM700 can save EITHER .mov OR JVC's XDCAM variant to SDHD, WITHOUT the SxS recorder?Sorry, Brian, that's not what I'm saying. JVC's proprietary tech can record direct to SDHC on both new cameras, but to do so on the HM700 requires the presence of the SxS adapter.

Patiently waiting for Tim and Chris to give us the lowdown on the camera!! Very eager to know what she can do!Thanks for your patience, Brian... Tim and I had a very busy, lightening-fast trip to Manhattan for back-to-back JVC and Panasonic press meetings, and Tim worked on some interesting stereo photography exercises in the city, plus we squeezed in a screening of "Fanboys" in Times Square. I've only just now returned to fire up the office. It's going to take a little time to get this stuff out.

However, according to Tim Dashwoods first post here: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/jvc-pro-hd-acquisition-systems/141123-specs-new-gy-hm100-prohd-camcorder.html The GY-HM100 will record 19, 25 and 35Mbps to SDHC cards. This also includes the ProHD formats and 1440X1080 and 1920x1080 interlaced formats. Wouldn't it be reasonable to think the HM700 would record these all to SDHC, even though the SXS recorder may add additional options?Yes the HM700 can record all those formats direct to its SDHC card slots, as long as the SxS adapter is attached to the camera.

I do find it interesting that the HMC 100 can record to SDHC in all flavors without the SXS. It makes me wonder if Sony is twisting JVC's arm to sell SXS.Whatever the reason may be, the main thing to note is that the HM100 can record XDCAM EX directly to SDHC. And while it can also be done on the HM700, to do so requires the presence of the SxS adapter on the camera.

...it's not obvious what the SxS Media Recorder brings to the table if all formats can also be recorded to SDHC.All formats can be recorded to the SDHC card slots only if the SXS Media Reader is attached to the camera, otherwise the .MP4 (XDCAM EX) recording options aren't available. What the SxS Media reader brings to the table is basically a handshake that enables XDCAM recording on the HM700. Since it's not required for the smaller HM100 camera, it's most likely a licensing provision established by Sony... that's my take on it anyway.

...the Media Recorder may be a "must have" for many shooters.You're right; the SxS Media Recorder will be a "must have" for anyone wanting to record XDCAM EX to the SDHC card slots on the HM700. I'm just wondering if it's possible to use the MxR solution (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/974576-post2.html) (SDHC card with Express Card adapter) in the SxS media reader instead of an actual SxS card...?

Chris, Thanks for taking the time to clarify the SXS confusion. Look forward to more info from yourself and Tim.

Chris,
can we hope for some impressions or maybe even footage from the GY-HM100 too or did you only deal with the HM700?
Thanks,
Matthias

Hi Matthias, even though the HM100 was announced earlier, the HM700 is closer to being a finished product. Tim shot a little bit with the HM100 in January, but that camera was only about 85% complete and there were too many functions (such as image stabilization, most notably) that had yet to be enabled... so we were reluctant to show video from it as any clips would *not* be accurately representative of a finished version.

The HM700, on the other hand, is much closer to completion and will be released before the HM100. The camera that Tim and I saw in New York on Tuesday is still an engineering sample, and apparently the only one currently in existence, but it is much further along in terms of functionality.

Tim and I split up yesterday around noon; I went off to attend the Panasonic press meeting while Tim spent more time with the HM700. We had agreed earlier to lobby JVC to let us record some clips that we can show you, but he and I both traveled back to our respective homes pretty late last night and I haven't talked to him yet, so I don't know how that's turned out.

So basically, the HM100 engineering sample that we saw isn't quite ready for showing video, but hopefully the HM700 is. We'll do our best to get some HM100 clips as soon as we can though. Meanwhile be sure to read Tim's first impressions of the HM100 at http://www.dvinfo.net/articles/jvcprohd/hm100sneakpeek.php -- hope this helps,

Thanks Chris (and Tim) for finally putting some end to all our speculation. I have to say, as excited as I am about the HM700, the realization that I need to buy the SxS adaptor, regardless of what media I choose to use, in order to record XDCam EX on the premium priced camera IS a disappointment. I believe MSRP on the SxS adaptor is nearly $1800, making the "fully" equipped HM700 essentially a $10k USD purchase. I sincerely hope that when you folks are able to show us footage, our response is "ok, I CAN justify $10k for a 1/3" chip camera with less brand recognition than Sony".

Thanks, Chris, for clearing that up. So, unless we pony up for the SxS adapter, we're stuck with ProRes QuickTime files. That's a bit disappointing. As a Vegas user, I'm not a big fan of QuickTime, as it seems to bog my system down. I'd have been happier if JVC used Cineform for SDHC instead, or as an alternative to, ProRes. I'll be curious to try some clips and see how they respond outside of a Final Cut Pro environment.

Looking forward to Tim's reports!

Jon Fauer ASC (http://www.fauer.com/) and I spent some quality time with the HM700 yesterday and I did shoot footage in most of the modes (including undercrank 10fps and overcrank 60fps) on a beautiful spring-like day in the Meat Packing District of NYC, but the restaurant was opposed to us shooting any interior "low-light" material. I did play with +18dB gain while sitting at the table and I would say that there is an incredible improvement over the last generation of camcorders. I couldn't find LoLux in this engineering sample. Luckily we'll only have to wait a few weeks before the production models start shipping.
I played again with the HM100 as well, which had a software update since I last used it in Vegas, but the OIS still wasn't installed in that particular unit.

More to come...

This generation of HM cameras uses the XDCAM EX mpeg-2 long-GOP 19/25/35mbps codec whether it is wrapped in .mov or .mp4.

The HM100 will be able to record to SDHC in either .mov or .mp4 but you will never hear mention of "XDCAM EX" in relation to the camera presumably because the license from Sony doesn't cover recording to SDHC.

In the case of the HM700 the SxS recorder (which I was told will have SRP of $1000) acts as a dongle key to unlock XDCAM EX recording in .mp4 wrapper.

To be clear: a HM700 fresh out-of-the-box will record XDCAM EX codec wrapped in .mov in all modes and 19/25/35mbps bitrates to the SDHC card slots. These files will play on any Mac with FCP installed, or any Mac with the open source Perian XDCAM codecs (http://blog.lib.umn.edu/mcfa0086/discretecosine/164630.html) installed, or a PC with the Windows XDCAM Quicktime codecs (http://www.calibratedsoftware.com/QXD.asp) installed.

Once the SxS unit is attached you will be able to record XDCAM wrapped in .mp4 to either the SDHC slots or SxS slot (or both simultaneously.) Only .mp4 XDCAM can be recorded to the SxS slot, not .mov.

The JVC people assume that an expresscard SDHC adapter will also work with SxS slot (allowing simultaneous SDHC recording to two cards) but it has not been tested.

To be clear: a HM700 fresh out-of-the-box will record XDCAM codec wrapped in .mov in all modes and 19/25/35mbps bitrates to the SDHC card slots.

My brain hurts Tim.

Just so I can be clear: if I buy the HM700 and opt not to purchase the SxS adaptor, I can record 35mbit XDCam EX to the SDHC onboard?

If I want .mp4 files OR want SxS card recording to hand to clients with an SxS workflow, I need the adaptor, correct?

Bottom Line???

SDHC w/o SXS = .mov 19/25/35 flavors.
SDHC + SXS = .mov & .mp4 19/25/35 flavors.

Like we said .mp4 will work with Avid, it is just a slower import than rewrapped mp4 to mxf.

Still a disappointment.

My brain hurts Tim.


Me too. Can we call this ConfusoCam?

Just so I can be clear: if I buy the HM700 and opt not to purchase the SxS adaptor, I can record 35mbit XDCam EX to the SDHC onboard?
Yes XDCAM EX wrapped in Quicktime .mov.

If I want .mp4 files OR want SxS card recording to hand to clients with an SxS workflow, I need the adaptor, correct? Yes. The adapter will "unlock" the ability to wrap XDCAM EX in mp4, which is how the EX1/EX3 cameras do it.
This presumably is a condition of JVC's licensing agreement with Sony.

BTW mp4 is just used as a wrapper for XDCAM EX, but it is still mpeg-2 long-GOP inside.

Ahhh.... the light is beginning to dawn. I think I get it now.

Thanks for the FURTHER clarification Tim. Already talking to Pete about these...

This wikipedia article about XDCAM formats and their implementation in different cameras (including the new JVC cameras) clairifies some of the confusion:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XDCAM

It seems MXF is not relevant, as that applies to the XDCAM format recorded to disc.

XDCAM EX, the solid-state format, is wrapped in MP4.

The article mentions that NLEs with MXF editing ability are not automatically able to edit the new MP4-wrapped version. There is not backward compatibility from XDCAM HD to XDCAM EX(except for SD).

Thus, is seems it is on the NLEs to implement the new EX (MP4-wrapped) format.

It would seem then that the JVC camera offers what the Sony cameras do, _plus_ the Quicktime wrapper option.

Sony Clip Browser software: https://servicesplus.us.sony.biz/sony-software-model-XDZP1.aspx

When you record XDCAM as mp4, then you use the free Sony Clip Browser software which in turn will re-wrap mp4 to mxf. It is a very fast process and will in turn allow you to go straight into Avid, Vegas etc. I think I read that Premiere and Edius will edit mp4 without rewrap.

BTW, the software utility is free.

It would seem then that the JVC camera offers what the Sony cameras do, _plus_ the Quicktime wrapper option.
Exactly. The bottom line is that if a NLE says it can ingest footage from an EX1 or EX3 then it will also work with the HM700 with SxS module or the HM100.

Also, there is a DV/HDV firewire port for backwards compatibility with older NLE systems or DTE recorders like the DR-HD100. All HD clips at all bitrates can be downconverted to either NTSC DV or PAL DV via the firewire port (PAL or NTSC is automatically selected based on the source frame/field rate.)

Also, 19.2mbps 720p or 25mbps 1080i/p files can be output via the firewire port as a HDV stream. I don't think the camera is able to downsample from 35Mbps to lower HDV rates, but I haven't confirmed that with JVC.