Hey all -

Don't know if this is already posted, here or elsewhere, but just in case...here it is:

Canon EOS 5D MarkII Firmware Update (http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/firm-e/eos5dmk2/firmware.html)

This firmware update (supposedly) addresses the "black dot" and "vertical banding" issues.

I just successfully updated my firmware to 1.0.7. Thanks for the link!

-Mark

Movie mode remains the same, no full manual controls. Do'h

Movie mode remains the same, no full manual controls. Do'h

I think you're setting yourself up for continual disappointment. The chances that Canon will update the firmware to do this are practically nil (have they ever released firmware for an existing camera that added functionality?)

Wait for the 5D Mark III and the 60D.

i feel very disappointing on the update.
there no update related to the video that we all wanted to be,
sine it was request by a hug customer.

DO CANON LISTEN TO US? i think they don't they still don't want to kill there Camcorder industry,
i hate to say that but the BIG company never listen to customer.

I tink the Sony camcorder guys listened thou. I'm pretty happy with most of the XDCAM series. As the guys said, I too doubt that Canon will ever give us the manual controls. At least the black dot and banding thingy will be minimised.

i feel very disappointing on the update.
there no update related to the video that we all wanted to be,
sine it was request by a hug customer.

DO CANON LISTEN TO US? i think they don't they still don't want to kill there Camcorder industry,
i hate to say that but the BIG company never listen to customer.

Actually, I think Canon does listen; take the XH A1s for example. After all The MkII's job is to take stills ; )

JS

Wait for the tapeless successor for XH-A1?

When do they announce their new prosumer cams?

I think they listen, and I don't think they are specifically limiting the 5D Mark II to protect their video camera business. Rather, I suspect that the video capability came rather late in the development cycle, that's - I think - why the controls are so limited, and also why the recording mode is hidden away in a menu rather than it's own button on the camera.

And I think camera makers just have a different design philosophy to computer makers. They bring out a new camera, and then they switch the development team to the next camera. They only go back to fix bugs if they have to. If they were to redesign the firmware to add new features they'd have to undertake a specific development effort to do so....that's just not the way they have done things in the past. (Actually, you could probably say that about most non-OS based electronic devices.)

So I don't think there are any big conspiracies, just realities we probably have to live with.

Wait for the tapeless successor for XH-A1?

When do they announce their new prosumer cams?

Maybe NAB in April?

And I think camera makers just have a different design philosophy to computer makers. They bring out a new camera, and then they switch the development team to the next camera. They only go back to fix bugs if they have to. If they were to redesign the firmware to add new features they'd have to undertake a specific development effort to do so....that's just not the way they have done things in the past. (Actually, you could probably say that about most non-OS based electronic devices.)

So I don't think there are any big conspiracies, just realities we probably have to live with.

You are correct. The product is design and ordered in quantity with updates limited to "fixes" that were likely underway long before any customers posted "problems." Both the Canon and Nikon use LIVEVIEW as a source of a stream of images that can be recorded.

By definition LIVEVIEW is designed to optimally present a pix to the photographer so he/he can frame and focus. In reality, a D-SLR doesn't really need LIVEVIEW because it is an SLR. Which means LIVEVIEW's main purpose is an adjunct to the VF! So it is icing on the VF cake and movies are cute flowers made of icing.

This is not the case with the Casio EX-F1. It was designed from day one around a Sony EXMO CMOS chip (about 1/2-inch) which has both minimal rolling-shutter and continuous high-speed operation. It was designed to use various size windows each with it's own frame-rate. Video is simply one of the many frame-rates. 30p uses a 1280x720 window. A 1920x1080 window (or larger) runs at 60p which is converted to 1080i60. The next size window is 300fps. The smallest window runs the chip at 1200fps. (It's strobe runs at 7fps.)

When you shoot either size HD movie a special Program AE mode limits the shutter-speed to 1/30th to 1/100th -- as it should for video. It also allows manual aperture control plus manual focus. However, you don't get manual gain control although it smartly limits gain to ISO 800 which enables recording at EV8 or higher.

Thus, while it does work very nicely as an ENG style HD video camera -- it isn't really a camcorder. Just like the Canon and Nikon are not camcorders. They are for ENG shooting like in Gaza. This craze to turn them into 35mm movie cameras is ignoring their technology as it IS and hoping somehow Canon and/or Nikon will "fix"them with firmware. They ain't broken for news photographers that need to also shoot video.

i feel very disappointing on the update.
there no update related to the video that we all wanted to be,
sine it was request by a hug customer.

DO CANON LISTEN TO US? i think they don't they still don't want to kill there Camcorder industry,
i hate to say that but the BIG company never listen to customer.

The camera has only been out a month, I think you expect too much. They quickly released a fix, pretty good in my book.

Not that I expect a firmware update that will give us more control, but Canon actually has added more functionality to their cameras in the past.
The Canon 1DsMark III when first released could not control the AF points with the back joystick. It was enabled with firmware updates.
I think the 1D series will be where Canon puts in more control with video.. There's talk about how such a camera would not be allowed in many broadcast events due to licensing issues. I don't buy that as any professional photog who breaks the rules will have their press credentials pulled and also probably sued for copyright issues.

I think you're setting yourself up for continual disappointment. The chances that Canon will update the firmware to do this are practically nil (have they ever released firmware for an existing camera that added functionality?)

Wait for the 5D Mark III and the 60D.


Michael, I don't think I'm setting my self up for continual disappointment far from it, I am an optimist and will continue to make the camera work as is. It would have been nice to have more manual controls but it not the end of my world, I can work around them.

At the end of the day I bought this camera as an upgrade to the 5D.

If no body ever questioned things, nothing would ever change.

I spoke with Canon representatives at the Canon booth at C.E.S. in Las Vegas this week. I spoke to both guys manning the DSLR desk, and was carrying my 5D mk II slung over my shoulder and wearing my press pass. I told them I loved the camera, but thought that Canon had shot themselves in the foot by not enabling full manual control in video mode. Their reply to me was, "It's a stills camera!" I explained to them that if they read any review on the camera on the web, they'd see that everyone bemoans the lack of full manual control and that those of us who want to use the camera to its fullest end up buying Nikon lenses! To prove my point, I opened my camera case, and showed him that 2 of the 3 lenses I was carrying at that time were made by Nikon. I said, "Instead of people buying $1,000 Canon lenses, we're all buying sub-$300 Nikon lenses!"

One rep told me that if they allowed full manual control in the 5D mk II's video mode, it would "eat into the professional video camera market." This is, of course, a ludicrous suggestion, as a fully manually controlled 5D mk II would still not be comparable to a professional, or prosumer camera like the XH-A1 or above. We all know that within a year or two, Canon will be making a prosumer camera with full frame sensors and it'll be much more expensive than the 5D mk II. Those who want/need the prosumer video camera will buy it. Those who want a kick ass DSLR will buy the 5D mk II.

So ultimately, it seems that Canon doesn't want to make their product better and more useful for their customers.

Julian

Good observations, Julian.

I think adding manual control to the 5D won't change the market dynamics regarding the pro market very much. Manual control won't make the 5D a competent ENG cam. It won't make it a prime wedding cam. It won't make it right for long events. It wouldn't be the right choice for unscripted documentaries.

Where the 5D shines is for incidental pieces, like a glimpse of a day in the park or museum, or an overview of a ski trip, and for scripted shorts, where the takes are short, and we have time to do multiple takes and get it right. For long takes and unscripted events where you *can't* miss the big moment, the 5D is a poor choice as a primary cam.

Manual control wouldn't change this dynamic. I would still buy it for beautiful incidental pieces and 35mm-like scripted shorts - and I wouldn't buy any stinking 1/3" sensor cam for those applications.

No, the dynamics that would change are these: I'd recommend the 5D without reservation, I'd recommend EF lenses for the job, and I'd have a better feeling every time I hit the record button. As it is, I have mixed feelings about the product and the company, and I have no desire to buy their lenses.

Adding manual control to the 5D Mark II would benefit Canon far more than it would hurt them.

PS: The ~$1,200 Vixia HF S100 offers full manual control of A/V, including microphone levels, zebras, colorbars, tone, etc. The $250 PowerShot SX110 IS point-and-shoot offers full manual controls for still shooting.

That the $2,700 5D MkII lacks manual controls - and Canon apparently isn't willing to enable the function - is a low blow.

Maybe I'm being a bit too fussy, but since the upgrade, I've noticed more horizontal aliasing on edges in video mode ... color noise sort of thing. I'm going to try and match exact shooting conditions from v 1.06 firmware and check this. I had no black dots or banding anyway .. DOH!

Regarding the manual sthing .. yes .. I've got a growing list of Nikon lenses and the adaptor. However, you can still use the AE Lock sensibly and effectively have a quick manual set. Go out of range and the ISO variant will kick in though. This is definitely a camera that you get excellent results with if you spend time to think it through first.

I sold my XH A1 to get it .. and I'm so glad :-))

example video shot under a wide range to try and see what it would do .. all within 5 days of getting it from Best Buy Topeka KS ... and so near Christmas, that I had no time..... is up on my website as zip file downloads of the original .mov untouched.
Full auto.

go here .. Untitled Document (http://www.limelighthd.tv/canoneos)

..remember that this is a much higher codec quality than HDV and about a 38Mb/sec data rate, so will stress most computers. It plays perfectly on my dual quad Xeon with 4 drive Raid0 SATA array.
My laptop just staggers along at about 8 FPS
Render it to .wmv and you'll see a smooth playback