I've noticed street prices with Canon are often pretty flexible once supply hits, and if I had to guess, those prices may turn out to be on the high side... what with the economy.

These cameras look to be coming out on Amazon about a month after they are officially released in February by Canon. March 15, 2009 to be exact. They are probably going to be much cheaper on Amazon then anywhere else.

This looks like a really nice upgrade to the HF100, whereas the HF11/HG20 didn't really add much except for 24MBPS recording.

Chris can you confirm how the native 24p mode will work on the HV40? Is it the same 24F or something new?

Chris, is that a one-off custom modification of Hoodman's current HoodLoupe or is it something that Hoodman is bringing to market soon?


That's an actual Hoodman product; just saw it at their booth at macworld today. Said it would be available soon and that they're working on something similar for the DSLRs as well. I actually picked up a Hoodloupe after trying it with the 5D - even though I've gotten used to not using a viewfinder, something about using the Hoodloupe with the 5d makes it feel more like shooting with a video camera!

how do these new cams compare tot he HG21 I just bought 3 weeks ago?

I am in the same boat, see my previous post...

I think that which ever way you look at it, this new HFS10 is MIGHTY NICE INDEED.

Check out the "product description" at amazon, it reads like an encyclopedia of fantastic features, one feature after the next they just keep coming. I knew the HG series prices were dropping, I wasn't "in the know" enough to realize WHEN the new stuff was coming out!

On top of that, portability is a concern for me, and with the new flagship HS though it's lense barrel looks huge, the camera itself is SMALLER than the HG21! (10mm thinner, 8mm less height).

I don't know if this has been answered completely or not. Can the custom control manually control the zoom, focus, aperture, and shutter?

It appears that it can, but I was wondering if anybody could confirm this?

If so this camera is going to be pretty sweet.

Played with an HFS100 at macworld for a little bit yesterday... the new menu system is much better than the old one in my opinion. However, it still doesn't appear to have true full manual control. You've got aperture and shutter priority modes, but no way to control both independently at the same time. I suspect the workaround is to choose one, i.e. shutter in shutter priority mode, then use the manual exposure control to adjust the other - but it doesn't give you the explicit values this way.

Unfortunately cinema mode disables the gain limit controls... couldn't tell if it respected your last setting or not.

The custom control can only be set to one function at a time - the button toggles between auto/manual and then the dial sets the manual level. It doesn't look like you can set it for zoom, shutter or aperture - only 'exposure', focus, audio, and auto gain limit.

The gain control appears to just limit the maximum gain, so presumably with it at 0db the exposure control would only affect the one remaining property (aperture in shutter priority and vice versa).

I picked up a Hoodloupe at the show but didn't get a chance to get back and try it on the canons - however the layout of all the controls on the lcd frame will likely make the setup Chris posted above impractical as the loupe and connecting wrap would essentially block access to nearly all controls on the camera. The loupe is normally meant to be worn around the neck rather than mounted on the camera anyway and this will probably be the best way to use it.

However, it still doesn't appear to have true full manual control.No such thing as full manual on any consumer Canon camcorder, but the workaround popularized for the old HV20 still applies here... shoot in shutter priority, and press exposure lock to tweak the f/stop a bit to where you want it... this technique has been around for a long time now.

I picked up a Hoodloupe at the show but didn't get a chance to get back and try it on the canons - however the layout of all the controls on the lcd frame will likely make the setup Chris posted above impractical as the loupe and connecting wrap would essentially block access to nearly all controls on the camera.Actually it *doesn't* interfere with the joystick and function button. It only blocks some of the buttons on the left side and under the LCD, and those aren't used when taking a shot. In my opinion it's highly practical for anyone who wants to make an EVF out of the LCD panel.

How will these new cameras perform in low-light situations that is the 25K dollar question. The new HF20/200 seem to have a smaller sensor than current HF10/100 and HG2x series. Will this hinder the camera's image quality and fidelity or will DVIII advancements in AutoExposure compensate for the smaller CCD?

No such thing as full manual on any consumer Canon camcorder, but the workaround popularized for the old HV20 still applies here... shoot in shutter priority, and press exposure lock to tweak the f/stop a bit to where you want it... this technique has been around for a long time now.

Well, up until these new models there was also no such thing as gain control on any consumer Canon, so I was hoping maybe they'd gone the whole way this time...

I just think it's funny how things go with Canon - I also played with a G10 at the show. It has big, clicky, stacked DIALS for ISO, AE mode and exposure compensation. It was one of the best things I've seen from Canon. It was almost like using a real camera. I wish my mkII had those. Imagine a small video camera with a couple of dials like that - they could cover white balance, shutter speed, gain and aperture and then just need a ring or wheel for focus... I know, I know, it's a crazy idea.

What is the actual size of the lense? What i really mean is, it looks huge but then you factor in the pop up flash etc and it's not as big as it first appears. (The true and actual glass lense diameter is NOT the same as the THREAD diameter, do I have that correct?)

I am pretty much set to purchase the HFS100. My only factor in the decision will be how the low light performance is. If it sucks, I may downgrade to the smaller chipped model. if it is decent (I am not expecting 5D MKII good obviously), I will order the HFS100.

These little cameras will be a good second angle or companion camera to my DVX100A and HPX170. Different tools for different jobs.

Dan

The HF-S cameras definitely look impressive, and it will be interesting to see how well they do with low light - Sony has it's Bionz "R" sensors in their new cameras, and that technology was supposed to provide better low light performance...

Bottom line though, you can always add a small on camera light for those times when ambient just won't cut it - they work wonders. Sure, range is limited, but it doesn't take a lot of light augmentation to get a usable result.

No problem, just turn the LCD display into an EVF (see attached pics)... Hoodman USA

Has anyone tried the Hood Loupe on a camcorder? I'd love to get one for my XHA1.

I seem to remember that when the HF S10/S100 were originally announced, the time frame for release was stated as February 2009. Now Canon's website says Spring 2009, which even if accurate, could mean as late as mid-June.

Anybody know of the reason for the change? Technical issues or just adjusting to the current economy or something else?

Canon USA told me the HF-S models will be out in April, as far as I know that was their plan all along, so I don't think anything has changed.

Read elsewhere the increase in filter/thread size wasnt due to a large lens but so that the I-AF sensor could be tucked inside and still used with a wide or tele convertor.

Canon USA told me the HF-S models will be out in April, as far as I know that was their plan all along, so I don't think anything has changed.

Thanks Chris. I must have been thinking about some other electronic toy that I was lusting over that was supposed to come out in February. At least April sounds better than spring, which could mean June.

Price on HF S10 will be $1300 and HF S100 will be $1100. Perhaps these new lower prices reflect the economic reality these days. They will supposedly reach the market in early March. More details at:

Electronista | Canon prices, dates 2009 camcorders (http://www.electronista.com/articles/09/02/05/canon.2009.vidcam.prices/)

That article claims that the early March release date was a "pushed back" date, implying that maybe I am not crazy and earlier I read somewhere (not at this site) that they were going to be released in February.

You're not alone David. I thought I read somewhere dates of February, though it's true there was nothing in the original press release.

It's also possible I got confused with the release dates for the new Sony's; though I'm not sure when they are due either!

Interesting how the HV40 will be out in June. That's quite some time, considering its the same technology as in the HV30 and HV20 ... Makes me think they are delaying it on purpose to make people thinking between the two almost feel "forced" to go with the HF S10.

Here's the pricing info (rec'd via email earlier today from Canon USA):

VIXIA HF S10 $1,299.99 Early-Mar
VIXIA HF S100 $1,099.99 Early-Mar
VIXIA HF20 $899.99 Early-Apr
VIXIA HF200 $749.99 Early-Apr
VIXIA HG21 $1,299.00 On-Going
VIXIA HG20 $899.00 On-Going
VIXIA HV40 $999.99 Early-June
FS22 $599.99 Mid-Apr
FS21 $499.99 Mid-Apr
FS200 $329.99 Early-Apr
DC420 $369.99 Early-Apr
DC410 $299.99 Early-Apr
ZR960 $249.99 Early-Apr

Interesting how the HV40 will be out in June. That's quite some time, considering its the same technology as in the HV30 and HV20 ... Makes me think they are delaying it on purpose to make people thinking between the two almost feel "forced" to go with the HF S10.

A more benign explanation is that they are giving vendors plenty of time to clear out stock (HV30) in a slow retailing environment.

Not true. The HV-30's are being bought up like crazy. The NEW HV-40 is about the same camera at a more expensive pricepoint.

A more benign explanation is that they are giving vendors plenty of time to clear out stock (HV30) in a slow retailing environment.

Not true. The HV-30's are being bought up like crazy. The NEW HV-40 is about the same camera at a more expensive pricepoint.
looks to me all these new cameras are. It would have to be a earth shattering difference to justify doubling the cost of HF100 (now at B&H for $525 with free shipping).

looks to me all these new cameras are. It would have to be a earth shattering difference to justify doubling the cost of HF100 (now at B&H for $525 with free shipping).

...but the MSRP of the HF100 was/is $899. The HF200, at $749, has a lower MSRP. The question is; what will the initial markdown be at places like B&H, and how long it will take to come down? I would not be surprised if, a year from now, the HF200 isn't selling for less than $500 (Global Depressions and massive inflation/deflation not withstanding.)

Here's the pricing info (rec'd via email earlier today from Canon USA):

VIXIA HF S10 $1,299.99 Early-Mar
VIXIA HF S100 $1,099.99 Early-Mar

Right now Amazon has both those cameras available for pre-order at that price, but says the list prices (respectively) are 1,499.99 and 1,299.99.

Watch.Impress review of the HF S10:
�¬Ž›�M—Ç‚Ì�TŠ§�uElectric Zooma!�v (http://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs//20090212/zooma398.htm)

English Translated:
Translated version of http://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs//20090212/zooma398.htm (http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fav.watch.impress.co.jp%2Fdocs%2F%2F20090212%2Fzooma398.htm&sl=ja&tl=en)

Here's the pricing info (rec'd via email earlier today from Canon USA):

VIXIA HF S10 $1,299.99 Early-Mar
VIXIA HF S100 $1,099.99 Early-Mar

Hey Chris....do you know if early March is still the release schedule for the HF S10/100?
Amazon is showing April 15th.

Thanks!!!

FYI - B&H also shows an approximate arrival of the HV40 to be in April.

Hey guys...

So from what i understand the HFS 10 is the high end, top of the range consumer cam from Canon ie supposed to have the best quality image/lens?

Like similar to the HF 20 but higher pixel count/quality lens?

or which 2009 camera is top of the range from Canon

Cheers.

That is correct Mike -- The HF S10 / HF S100 is the top of the Canon VIXIA line for 2009 (so far).

That is correct Mike -- The HF S10 / HF S100 is the top of the Canon VIXIA line for 2009 (so far).

Cheers...

1 more thing, total pixels. HFS 10 has more than double what the HF 20 has. What does total pixels actually mean? More pixel's = better quality, more detail? or...? anyone know?:

HF 20:
Total Pixels:
3,890,000

HFS 10:
Total Pixels:
8,590,000

Cheers guys.

received the relatively new hf s10 canon camera yesterday and had a good play around with it. Overall, excellent camera with many good points. the biggest shock was it is really bad in poor lighting; grainy and could not manually focus.

i just purchased a load of filters before i switched on. No more scratching my lens but it looks like i will not beable to use many of the ones I purchased for indoor work.

by the way I am new to acvchd and what would be the best editing solution using the cs4 bundle.

I'd use Cineform for that format.... it makes working with acvchd very easy on your editor

received the relatively new hf s10 canon camera yesterday and had a good play around with it. Overall, excellent camera with many good points. the biggest shock was it is really bad in poor lighting; grainy and could not manually focus.


Bad in poor lighting compared to what? Other Canon camera's you have tried or?

isn't it 0.2 lux like most other recent canon models?

received the relatively new hf s10 canon camera yesterday...

Hey Marques.....where were you able to order the new HF S10?

For Paul: since he's in Tokyo, he most likely bought it in the Akihabara (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akihabara) district.

I hope this camera comes out soon in my Akihabara district ...

aka B&H :)

For Paul: since he's in Tokyo, he most likely bought it in the Akihabara (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akihabara) district.

Hey Chris....any word on when these little critters will be set loose here in the USA?

My understanding was later this month or early April... will try to get a firm answer on this from CUSA.

Any reason why the 'new' Canon Legria HF20 has never been mentioned on this site?

LEGRIA HF20

RRP $1,699.00 (Aus dollars).

It's meant to be a new model as well, unless its only an Aussie model and US doesn;t have it?

CANON USA HQ, here on Long Island, New York advise APRIL.

Dealers have received the packets but no pricing yet.

Any reason why the 'new' Canon Legria HF20 has never been mentioned on this site?

LEGRIA HF20

RRP $1,699.00 (Aus dollars).

It's meant to be a new model as well, unless its only an Aussie model and US doesn;t have it?


The HF20/HF100 were definitely mentioned, but I think they are basically seen as a small update of the HF10/HF100.....and the HFS10 got all the limelight because it's a much bigger step forward (i.e. something new)

Ah yeah... HF10/HF100 and HF20 are pretty similar, the 20 will be just a 2009 model/smaller/lighter and different sensor and higher pixel count...

I'm wondering if its really worth spending an extra $700/800 to go for the HF S10 when it comes out or stick with the HF20...

Hopefully by the end of March or Early April they will start doing full reviews of all the new camcorders and ill make a decision then..

Apparently HF S10 although being the flagship doesn't perform as well in low light as the other cheaper models... so we will see as id prefer a camera that performs better in low light

Apparently HF S10 although being the flagship doesn't perform as well in low light as the other cheaper models... It's important for you to understand why this is.

The HF S series has an 8mp image sensor. The less expensive HF series has a 3mp image sensor. As resolution goes up, sensitivity goes down. The higher the pixel count, the smaller those pixels are and therefore the less light they gather. Sensitivity and resolution are mutually exclusive... as one goes up, the other goes down. If low light sensitivity is ultimately most important for you, then you'll want the lowest res chips you can find. 3mp chips are more sensitive to low light than 8mp.

Really nice to see yet another fella from WA, by the way.

Chris, I'm sure you're right about 3mp imager being more sensitive in low light than 8mp, but low light sensitivity of HF S10 is just outstanding,
HF S10 low light 2 on Vimeo (http://www.vimeo.com/3510742)
I used to have HV10/20/30, HC9 and none of them comes even close to it,
I really like it, it has all, and even more that i wanted from backup/vacation camera.

Chris, I'm sure you're right about 3mp imager being more sensitive in low light than 8mp, but low light sensitivity of HF S10 is just outstanding
...Oh, fully agreed. I was just breaking it down into simple terms is all. Wasn't to say it's bad; more to say "might not be as good as, because..." But the proof is in the pudding, as your example shows. Thanks.

Buba:

How did you get a hold of an HFS10? I thought that they weren't available until April?

Dan

Shipping now is what Canon USA told me at HD Expo last week in Hollywood.

See also http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/avchd-format-discussion/145393-canon-vixia-hf-s10-hf-s100-box-check-images.html