Why can't people have a choice either a disc or download? Priced accordingly.

Why can't people have a choice either a disc or download? Priced accordingly.

Hi! Personally, I favor the download-option, not just concerning Vortex's offerings, but all software, files, music, videos etc. I think this is a HUGE enviromental question, and given the choice I will always download instead of having plastic discs stuck in plastic cases packed in shrinkwrapped, cardboard boxes driven to the post-office later flewn by plane etc. etc. delivered to me.

There is of course the issue of servers & bandwidth, wich can be rather costly for a small company... You can mail a whole lot of DVD's for the price of a digital delivery system, gotta consider the money as well, (wait, that's how this whole thread started).

I will also say that I did get Doug's EX1 DVD's 2 weeks before I got my camera last March, saved me a LOT of time/money/bother, would buy again at twice the price, even if I had to swim over there and pick them up myself, great stuff Doug, Thanks!!

Magnus

I have bought a few items now on download recently about 4Gig. My connection isn't that fast.

The Vortex media for the EX-1 is only available as NTSC not everyone has an NTSC player I only have a region 2. Of course I could always play it on the computer which is what I guess most will do anyway negating any security concerns of it ending up being a potential illegal download. The only other consideration might be that the thing comes as a whole with the artwork and case that maybe helps justify a higher price tag.. If I was selling something like this I would want to sell as many as possible at a price the customer is happy with and one that means return business. In that regard I would want to make the whole process as easy and accessible as possible. What would a seller rather do? Sell a thousand at $50 Or a hundred at a $100.. All things have to be considered. I guess though for a business the best way is first send freebies to reviewers who will then write a good review.. Then sell at what a richer customer would pay and then to keep sales coming in at a certain rate by reducing the price as demand reduces.. Then finally upgrade the product with must have information where the customer has to buy the whole thing again.. In the case of the EX-1 a new version featuring different film looks and how to use the picture profiles effectively.

The Vortex media for the EX-1 is only available as NTSC not everyone has an NTSC player I only have a region 2.

The Vortex DVD's are region free (the region of the player has nothing to do with PAL or NTSC). You will find that your DVD player will play such an NTSC disc with no problems at all. If you have a television that was bought any time after the late 80's or thereabouts it should handle NTSC signals no problem.

In fact if you bought your DVD player in the UK in the last three or four years the chances are that it is actually capable of playing all regions by default, if not by using a simple key combination that can be found easily on the internet by searching for your player model.

Most new DVD-players here in Europe play NTSC DVD's.

I have seen and tested several DVD-sets (F350, EX-1, EX-3, Z7U/S270, How to shoot great looking interviews) from Vortex Media on my PAL equipment with various DVD-players. I only can tell that it looks great on my 40" Bravia LCD, even if it is NTSC.

Sell a thousand at $50 Or a hundred at a $100..

Tons of assumptions in that statement, the most significant one is market size. I wonder if Doug priced his DVDs at $2 if he'd really sell 1,000,000 units. Somehow I doubt it. Marketing 101.

Like others, I bought my Vortex EX3 DVD a few weeks before my EX3 arrived and yes, it's more expensive than my "Star Wars Holiday Special" bootleg DVD (the worst production *ever*) but it's all about value. The cost of Doug's DVDs are noise when compared with the time I have saved not re-inventing wheels, not beating my head against various walls, and most dangerous of all, not developing incorrect superstitions on how things work.

Going from 0 to 60 for $125 in training on a $10,000 camera. Bargain of the century.

Thanks to Doug and the crew at Vortex, I was comfortable enough with the EX3 and its workflow that I was shooting almost immediately and used it on its first real gig within a couple of weeks.

Time is money and so is knowledge.

^^^^Exactly^^^^^ Very well put.

QUOTE
You will find that your DVD player will play such an NTSC disc with no problems at all.

Sorry Simon Not in my case.

QUOTE
Tons of assumptions in that statement,

The only statement I made here was about marketing If you have read more into it Please explain?

The only point I was trying to make here was how a download could actually be more beneficial to all..

Well Mark, you must have a *very* old DVD player and television. Or you are still muddling up Regions with NTSC/PAL. If your player isn't region free (I'd be astounded if it couldn't have a code input but anyway) then it would not play a Region 1 USA disc. However it *will* play a region free NTSC one unless it really is an old and creaky player. What model is it?

The reason I know Simon is because I bought my DVD recorder when they were fairly new out I actually paid over a thousand pounds for it.

Now.. I have a region one Superman DVD that I tried and doesnt work I also know the player is a region two player only.. But this entire debate about my DVD player is pointless because I would maybe buy the Vortex DVD "download " it it was available because of the savings on postage and materials However the price for me as it stands is to high.. The reasoning is as has been said what is a thing worth to you? Well for me who knows how to operate the camera with the occassional need for the instruction book the price was to much for that luxury.. Also as a side note I could still buy the Vortex DVDs and play them on my computer which of course is where I'd watch them anyway.

I bought my DVD recorder when they were fairly new out I actually paid over a thousand pounds for it.

Mark, that's Simon's point. Your player is so old that it is not as compatable as are the today's players.

Now you can buy a very nice DVD player that will play just about anything you put in it (except for a grilled cheese sandwich). It will cost you a small fraction of what you paid many years ago.

Tons of assumptions in that statement, the most significant one is market size. I wonder if Doug priced his DVDs at $2 if he'd really sell 1,000,000 units. Somehow I doubt it. Marketing 101.

Like others, I bought my Vortex EX3 DVD a few weeks before my EX3 arrived and yes, it's more expensive than my "Star Wars Holiday Special" bootleg DVD (the worst production *ever*) but it's all about value. The cost of Doug's DVDs are noise when compared with the time I have saved not re-inventing wheels, not beating my head against various walls, and most dangerous of all, not developing incorrect superstitions on how things work.

Going from 0 to 60 for $125 in training on a $10,000 camera. Bargain of the century.

Thanks to Doug and the crew at Vortex, I was comfortable enough with the EX3 and its workflow that I was shooting almost immediately and used it on its first real gig within a couple of weeks.

Time is money and so is knowledge.

Excellent viewpoint.

I've been considering the EX3, but knowledge and cost of recording media were the two road blocks. Amazing thing is that in 2 days of being online here at DV (i) I found the solution to both problems.

For me personally going from "0 to 60" is priceless. Add that with the media reader and use of regular Sandisc 32gb memory cards and I'm golden. :)

What a great time to be a videographer.

Perhaps Sony should be including one of these disks with each camera sold.

QUOTE
Now you can buy a very nice DVD player that will play just about anything you put in it (except for a grilled cheese sandwich). It will cost you a small fraction of what you paid many years ago.

----------------------------------------

Why? I have a perfectly good DVD player. I certainly wouldn't buy one specificly to play the Vortex DVD's .

A DVD player is on my near term shopping list though because Im poised to make the leap into HD home entertainment from my current setup although I cant really see any reason.. I currently have a 53" 4:3 Sony rear projection TV which is excellent when set up right. HD TV is not yet broadcast mainstream here and I get as good a picture probably better than ordinary plasma or LCD. I also have a Seleco 350 CRT projector running an RGB signal with anamorphic on an eight foot screen. I can tell you that this is a darn sight better than any Consumer cheap HD projection that I have seen. The quality is like being in the cinema. Probably many experts will tell me Im wrong and I need glasses who cares because its what I can see Maybe I'm as blind as a bat? BUT Im a happy bat. So for now for me HD is more of a downgrade. My other concern monitoring HD film I have a 1920 laptop and am thinking of buying the dell monitor for color correction.. Maybe my birthday.. We'll see.

Why? I have a perfectly good DVD player. I certainly wouldn't buy one specificly to play the Vortex DVD's.

Evidently, you don't, based on what you've said above regarding the problems you're having playing a variety of DVDs.

Besides Vortex, there are many other NTSC DVDs available, including many fine Opera and Ballet performances. Not forgetting to mention RAMBO 9, 10, 11, 12 etc.

In short, having the facility to play DVDs from all over the world is a bonus. You can buy a good DVD player for less than £50 from most supermarkets that will play NTSC and PAL.

However, after spending over £1000 for your current DVD player, I can see your point about not wanting to splash out on a new player :-)

QUOTE
Besides Vortex, there are many other NTSC DVDs available, including many fine Opera and Ballet performances. Not forgetting to mention RAMBO 9, 10, 11, 12 etc.

--------------------------------------------------------------

This xmas I watched the Dark Knight St Trinians Transformers Rambo 4 all on poor old region two.. I never found a need to buy any other region than region two DVDs.. In fact all the latest releases get released on Version two as well.

You know what? If I had been missing out I would have bought a new DVD player and the thought has crossed my mind but in the end my reasoning and logic has determined its not for me.. Believe me I'm very hot on making sure I get what I need when it comes to all things film and a new DVD player is pocket money But even pocket money can be wasted When you dont need something.

Thanks for your concern.. Don't worry.. Really I'm not missing out here and I wouldn't have bought the Vortex DVD anyway unless it had been available as a download. And then I would have only watched it on my computer..

I'm sure your DVD player will do what you want for the forseeable future. Save the money.

QUOTE
I'm sure your DVD player will do what you want for the forseeable future. Save the money.

-----------------------------------------------------------

I'm sure too!

I purchased Vortex's 'Master the Ex 1' DVD even tho I had just purchased the EX3. (The EX3 DVD wasn't out yet) It was a great purchase and familiarized me right away.

I would like to know if any information has been updated enough to justify another purchase. I'm sure you'll wonder what I think is "enough" and I guess the answer to that is anything more than the cosmetic changes. Updated Picture Profiles would be nice / other settings, etc.

I have just received notice from Parcel Force that my Vortex DVDs (Sony EX3) has arrived in the UK and is ready for delivery. The only problem is that they want £29.04 for this service. I have allready paid $125 for the DVDs and $22 for postage this would make a grand total of £132 or $188.00.

Sorry Doug, I tried to support you with my purchase, but this is the straw that has broken the camels back, I have decided not to pay the extra amount and the DVDs will be making their way back to you. No doubt the DVDs are excellent, I will never know.

I think a downloadable file would be the best way forward for non-USA users.

Wonder if Doug realises the future is the internet :)

(hes managed a nice 75min intro on his web site so suggests the know how is there)

I have just received notice from Parcel Force that my Vortex DVDs (Sony EX3) has arrived in the UK and is ready for delivery. The only problem is that they want £29.04 for this service.

Hi Vincent,
I'm sorry to hear about the fee, but you are NOT being charged for delivery service. I’m sure it is a customs tax, or a VAT tax, or whatever the UK calls it. We have no control over it, and we assume that customers in foreign countries are aware that their country may tax incoming goods. We don’t like it anymore than you do!

We try to offset it a little by not charging the full price that it actually costs to ship a package, but beyond that there isn’t anything we can do to get around it.

For many reasons that I won’t get into here, distributing over the Internet is not a viable option at this time.

FYI, we do have a page on our website that lists our International Resellers so that customers can buy within their own country whenever possible.

I think a downloadable file would be the best way forward for non-USA users. Wonder if Doug realises the future is the internet :) (hes managed a nice 75min intro on his web site so suggests the know how is there)

Hi Matt,
The future, as you say, might be the Internet but this isn't the future. This is today.

The free 75 minute video I put online works okay for what it is, but it would be way too small to make an effective training presentation where it’s necessary to read camera menus, computer screens, see subtle changes in picture profile settings, the differences between shutter speeds, etc.

And who wants to sit in front of a computer for three hours?? Not me. I want to kick back and watch videos on a big screen.

I feel very limited by releasing on DVD, let alone on the web. I’d love to ship on Blu-ray. That would be great!!! But it’s not a viable option at this time, either.

Thank for the suggestion, but I have to respectfully say no thanks.

If anyone thinks they have better idea for me, pelase contact me offline. This subject is not appropriate for this forum and I won't be discussing it further here. Please understand if I don't reply anymore to this thread.

Doug

Thanks for your reply Doug,

Actually it is £15.54 for Customs duty (vat) and £13.50 for delivery. I know this is beyond your control, but after having paid $22 for delivery I am not prepared to pay again for the same.

I wish you the best of luck with your fine products and if you get a UK distribution on this DVD then I will buy it.

Don't worry about a refund, just donate my money to a charity of your choice

Not trying to sound funny Vincent, but it does strike me as odd that you are complaining about an extra £15 for customs duty, but are prepared to just let the money go to charity (where no doubt it will all be spent on managers wages rather than going towards actually helping anyone).

Actually in total it is £29.04, and it’s a point of principal. I do not want to cause Doug anymore embarrassment, nor do I want to spend my time haggling over money.

Like Doug, I also withdraw from this thread and consider the matter closed.

The matter has been resolved now.

Thank you Vortex.

I think the charges added on by the courier are illegal.

Thanks for your reply Doug,

Actually it is £15.54 for Customs duty (vat) and £13.50 for delivery. I know this is beyond your control, but after having paid $22 for delivery I am not prepared to pay again for the same.

I wish you the best of luck with your fine products and if you get a UK distribution on this DVD then I will buy it.

Don't worry about a refund, just donate my money to a charity of your choice

On the EU borders, two charges may be added on top the value of any import from outside UE:

- duty
- VAT

So, Oliver, I guess of the two components you mention, one is the import duty and the other is the UK VAT - not delivery.

I might be wrong, though...

So, Oliver, I guess of the two components you mention, one is the import duty and the other is the UK VAT - not delivery.

I might be wrong, though...

Yes, you are wrong, one is VAT, the other is Parcelforce clearance fee.

I have just ordered the EX3 training DVD from Vortex. While I was aware of the charges up front there is no getting away from it that UK based customers are getting a bit of a raw deal. Now I am not blaming Vortex, well I suppose I am in a way, it just the situation as is. However what they could do, and I know this has been mentioned in this thread before, is to make it available, as other content providers do, through itunes or as a straight download. This gets around the whole problem of delivery charges. Just think of the carbon footprint of the said DVD. Come on Vortex and others who plan to market such items, the days of sending non-physical stuff by mail is no longer feasible. I don't mind paying taxes its what makes schools and hospitals work but what I do mind is manufactures not taking these global factors into consideration.

A not so famous famous scotsman named Patrick Geddes once said around 100 years ago "think global act local", a term that has been repeated by many, we need more people to follow this advice.

Now how far have I strayed fro the original point...I think I need to go lie down.

I'm seeing a few of the "training DVD" companies are getting away entirely from DVDs and going to download.

There are some issues with that though. Sometimes, the DVD can give you a critical quality improvement given the data rate and that might be important when looking at EX video (although it's heavily compressed either way).

Some people don't have the broadband speed for what would be a huge download but Europe, in general, has much faster speeds that USA (but there are many exceptions).

The economics can get quite tricky considering some of these companies (like Vortex for example) are very small and this increases the complexity of sales.

Some companies offer either DVD or download but for others it may well mean having to charge more which negates the benefit of no shipping cost.

I found the Vortex Sony EX3 on Amazon but surprise surprise " Warranty issues and manufacturer restrictions prevent us from shipping " to Finland.
They have it on sale for 99$ and shipping is usually really great.
I'm frequently buying DVD titles from them but that will not be the case with Vortex Sony EX3 as I'm ( Europeans) forced to buy it from Vortex direct where no download options are available ( surely they don't have a technology making that possible)
so the hardcore good old rip off postal fee and price over hundred and twenty bucks are available.

Vortex Sony EX3 is no doubt, great, but it's clear that the good old market customs are pulling the threats with that: MONOPOLIST position. You have a great product without competition, so sell it the way you want and charge as much you think people will give.

Throughout DV info net forums I think real knowledge is changing minds and it's free of charge. I'm glad about being part of this community.
This naturally doesn't mean that Vortex should give their stuff free.