I finally got around to downloading and installing the Neo HD trial. I wanted to see if I could convert the MOV files from my Canon 5D mk II to something which I could edit in Premier Pro CS3.

I have 2 installations of Windows XP (with the latest service pack and all the latest patches): One installation has everything installed on it, including the kitchen sink (anti-virus, anti-spyware, Production Premium CS3, Nero, Firefox, MS Office etc etc). The other installation (on a separate disk), is a clean Windows XP installation with only Production Premium CS3, TMPGEncXpress and some other support software.

I installed Neo HD on the first XP installation and after setting "Resize video" to 1440x1080, I was able to convert the 5D mk II MOV files to AVI, but HD Link would crash if I tried to add more than 4 MOV files to the queue at a time. Sometimes it would crash after converting the first file in the batch, or the second, or sometimes it would crash without even completing the first!

I installed the software on the clean XP installation. HD Link wouldn't convert any files, but would immediately crash.

The log shows no error messages, as HD Link is actually crashing Windows... the only error message is from Windows saying that HD Link crashed and asks if I want to send a message to Microsoft about it.

I was able to convert 28 video files from a recent trip to Long Beach, to the CF format , doing them in batches of 1 - 4 files at a time, then closing down HD Link and doing the next batch.

Needless to say, at this point I'm glad I've been able to try the trial software, rather than spend $500 on the full suite, only to experience these problems. Ultimately, though, I'd like to use Neo HD, if I can find out why it's crashing (especially on a clean Windows XP installation). Any ideas what may be going on?

Thanks,
Julian

NEO HD is using existing tools on your system to support the Canon 5D Mk II file conversion, as 5D is not yet native. Currently we recommend using the CoreAVC decoder (a $15 add-on) and registering the mp4splitter.ax (use regsvr32.exe) located in c:\program files\CineForm\NEO HD\. This should get you stable and reliable 5D conversions.

Many thanks, David.

I've requested the trial version of CoreAVC and am waiting for the download link to arrive. I figured that Cineform must be using something on my system... why else would it work on the version of XP which has everything, but not on a clean install of XP?! Is there an up-coming release of Neo HD which will have native support for 5D mk II files?

I'll report back on my progress once I've received the CoreAVC trial.

Thanks again.

Julian

Yes, expect that feature for NEO HD v4, which will be a free upgrade to anyone purchasing NEO HD v3 today.

Sounds good. Thanks for the info. I'm still waiting for the CoreAVC trial to come. I guess those guys don't have the process automated, like Cineform! :-)

David, in interest of consolidation, I'm, continuing our very similar conversation from this thread (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/cineform-software-showcase/134161-canon-eos-5d-mk2-video-2.html#post987862) here.

I bought and installed CoreAVC as you suggested. The Haali splitter you mentioned in the other thread is included as a component of that software.

I also tried registering the mp4splitter.ax file you mentioned, although the whole procedure is Greek to me. I googled "regsvr32.exe" and used this site for guidance (You can use the Regsvr32 tool (http://www.uninets.net/~blaisdel/Regsvr32Info.htm)). But whether using the command prompt or the "Run" command, I never got a confirmation message that anything was in fact registered. If you can talk to me like I'm a four year old to tell me how to do this, I'd be happy to retry.

In any event, after rebooting, I converted a Canon mov file via HDLink and had the same problem, upside down, mirror image video. I should also mention that the audio in these files is always about half as long as the video, so some weird audio temporal shift is happening there as well.

Elizabeth,

I opened a command window and navigated to the c:\program files\CineForm\NEO HD\ folder (I have a "TweakUI" Windows addition which allows me to simply right click on the folder icon at the top left corner of a window and chose "Command Prompt Here" which does the same thing in less steps!).

From the c:\program files\CineForm\NEO HD\ folder, simply type:

regsvr32 mp4splitter.ax

and press the Enter key. A message should pop up saying it was registered.

I haven't been able to test anything else out, yet, as a download link CoreAVC still hasn't been sent to me.

Good luck.

Julian

Or from the run window, cut & paste

regsvr32 "C:\Program Files\CineForm\NEO-HD\MP4Splitter.ax"

If it succeeds you will get a popup like:

Julian, thanks very much. I followed your procedure before David posted and got the file to register, complete with confirmation message.

Unfortunately I am now getting errors in the HD Link log for the first time when attempting a file conversion. The program never actually shuts down. It just stalls in the apparent state of converting (the curvy arrows by the file name indicating conversion is ongoing) while never actually completing the task.

Attached is a screen cap of the last log generated.

Since I didn't hear back from the CoreAVC guys, I went ahead and purchased the software. I installed it on my Has-Everything XP system and registered the MP4Splitter.ax file as previously described. I shot a bunch of short MOV files with the Canon 5D mk II and ran HD Link. I told HD Link to resize the video to 1440x180, selected all 24 files, and told HD Link to do its thing (convert to CF AVI).

HD Link progressed smoothly, until it hit the last file, "MVI_0400.MOV". This file is 53,932KB, and is not the largest or smallest of the 24 files selected for conversion. HD Link stopped converting the file and placed the following error messages in the log:

Error in m_mediaControl->Run() (0x8007000e - Not enough storage is available to complete this operation) in( DirectShowGraph.cpp at 218)
Error in m_convertGraph.StartGraph() (0x8007000e - Not enough storage is available to complete this operation) in (CFCaptureDig.cpp at 2373)
Error in m_convertClip(next) (0x8007000e - Not enough storage is available to complete this operation) in (CFCaptureDig.cpp at 2430)

When I tried converting just that last file, HD Link crashed with the same error message I was getting before I installed CoreAVC - that Windows was reporting HD Link crashed and asked if I wanted to send a message to Microsoft about it.

I restarted HD Link, successfully converted the last file and opened a new project in Premier. I imported all the CF converted AVI files and found NONE of them had any audio with them.

My system is a Dell 720 QuadCore with 3GB RAM, 4 internal hard drives (all with hundreds of gigs of free space). Firefox was running, as was Thunderbird, and there was no shortage of system resources available. After the crash, I noticed my Windows swap file was up at about 2.40GB, so something was gobbling it all up. Normally, nothing makes it go above 1GB.

I've attached screen shots of the log file and the HD Link window.

Julian

Julian, thanks very much. I followed your procedure before David posted and got the file to register, complete with confirmation message.

Unfortunately I am now getting errors in the HD Link log for the first time when attempting a file conversion. The program never actually shuts down. It just stalls in the apparent state of converting (the curvy arrows by the file name indicating conversion is ongoing) while never actually completing the task.

Attached is a screen cap of the last log generated.

The Log report is helpful. Any chance you have CS4 installed? NEO HD is not yet fully compatible with CS4. This is the reason we don't use the forum for support, machine configuration issues are such a big factor, you can end up talking in circles for days. If CS4 installed its AVC decoder is take precidence over CoreAVC, yet it doesn't work (the CS3 one does.) If you have CS4 run this:

regsvr32 -u "C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe Premiere Pro CS4\ad2dsh264.ax"

Then try your conversion again. If not talk, to support on Monday.

Julian,

I don't understand your memory loss, and you send the file that caused that? In repeatable tests I'm not seeing any memory issues.

As for audio, none of our 5D sources have audio, can you provide a clip that does?

Hi David,

I'd be happy to send you whatever you need. However, like I said above, after shutting down HD Link and restarting it, I was able to convert the troublesome file, so I'm not sure just sending you the single file would help... it seems more likely that there's maybe a memory leak or something similar which, over the course of converting 2 dozen files, eventually eats up the system resources.

That said, I'd be more than happy to send you any of my test footage which contains audio. I have a yousendit account, so give me an email address and I'll upload one for you.

Thanks for your help.

Oh, one more thing, prior to installing CoreAVC and the MP4Splitter.ax, the converted clips had audio.

Julian

As an additional note to the above message... I just re-ran HD Link and reconverted all the 5D mk II files. This time, I watched the Windows XP Task Manager. As each file began processing, the page file usage jumped. When the file was converted, the page file did not shrink again. When the next file began processing, the size of the page file grew from where it left off. The result was like looking at a series of steps, which continued upwards until all the page file resources were consumed and the program crashed. This time, I got to the 18th file before it crashed (last time it was #24 out of 24). Again, all of the converted files are missing the audio.

That is interesting. I wonder if Mp4splitter.ax is not supporting audio from the 5D, and wonder which splitter was. My Canon 5D clip definitely don't have audio, so please email to dnewman at cineform.

You might be able to restore you audio by unregistering the mp4splitter (regsvr32 -u ...). If that works I would like to know which splitter or file reader is being used. If you install GraphEdit and drop the 5D MOVs onto it, it will shows what components are needed.

When I convert multiple files that is not happening, so I will need any sample to see if it is source related. If would be cool to see what graphEdit shows.

Found an audio clip to download. Issue is the malformed 44.1kHz 16-bit stereo that explains why there may be a difficultly connecting -- my audio device will not connect to it. Basically the mp4splitter is output to audio type "twos" which is not a PC audio format (Mac only) so that will to be fixed (pretty easy.) Have to check that out back at the office, but it is something that we can address in v4.

Ok, thanks for looking into it. I installed CoreAVC on my clean system, ran the same batch of MOVs through HD Link and the batch completed successfully. In fact, I watched the Task Manager and the swap file began at 250MB and never went above 540MB... much better than the 2.5GB on the other system. So, it seems there is *something* on the other installation which is screwing things up (other than the mp4splitter.ax problem). Maybe it's the antivirus software or anti-spyware software. I'll disable them both and check again.

I don't know what graphEdit is, or how to use it, but would be more than happy to try it out, if that helps any.

Julian

MP4Split. That's the problem. I unregistered it and re-ran the batch job to convert all 24 MOV files. I watched the Task Manager and the Windows page file went from about 800Mb to 933MB, but no further. The entire batch converted fine (still no audio, though).

I then deleted all the converted files and re-ran the batch. Part way through the batch, I re-registered MP4Splitter and, starting with the next file to be converted, the page file usage began to grow in the same way as before. The page file grew with each successive conversion. While the batch was still running, I unregistered MP4Splitter and the page file usage plateaued until the batch ended.

Julian

Good investigation. The mp4splitter is what I was using, and not seeing a memory leak, but clearly it seems to be doing something wrong on your PC. The GraphEdit stuff I will not need now, as I have confirmed it is Mac audio that is not being correctly interpretted on the PC (but fixable.)

Thanks again for your help, David. I was sure it was PC-cillin that was causing the problem, as the issue disappeared right after I killed PC-cillin... but then I remembered that I'd also unregistered MP4Splitter prior to my tests. I conducted the tests covering all the variations, and found MP4Splitter was the culprit and caused problems whether or not PC-cillin was running.

BTW, I have no idea what MP4Splitter is supposed to do for me, as I see no difference in the CF converted files whether it's running or not.

One thing I have noticed, is that when the 5D mk II files are converted to AVI and dropped into the Timeline, Premier shows the red line above the AVIs in the Timeline, meaning the Timeline needs rendering for a full preview. Scrubbing through the timeline by grabbing the CTI and moving it forwards or backwards, is not as smooth or as quick to react as "regular" files captured directly from HDVSplit (for example). Also, if I want to render the preview timeline (by pressing Return), it's INCREDIBLY slow. A 3 minute clip may take an hour or significantly longer, even with no effects applied. The same length footage captured directly from the camera with HDVSplit doesn't need rendering to preview (or, if effects are added, it may take just a few minutes). Is this normal?

Julian

For Premiere Pro you want to use Prospect HD, not NEO HD, as Prospect has Premiere accelerator. That Red bar is misleading, as we play fine, but Premiere (without acceleration) saying everything needs to be rendered if it is an external format whether it can play or not -- this is fixed somewhat in CS4 (marking external footage as yellow, only red if it can't play without rendering.) Give Prospect HD a try.

Hi David,

I saw your suggestion on trying Prospect HD, but unfortunately, as a hobbyist, $749 is way out of my price range - I was stretching it quite a bit for Neo HD at $499. I appreciate all the help you've given me in the past few days, and I hope I've been some help to Cineform too, but it looks like I won't be a Cineform customer after all. Sorry about that.

Julian

Found an audio clip to download. Issue is the malformed 44.1kHz 16-bit stereo that explains why there may be a difficultly connecting -- my audio device will not connect to it. Basically the mp4splitter is output to audio type "twos" which is not a PC audio format (Mac only) so that will to be fixed (pretty easy.) Have to check that out back at the office, but it is something that we can address in v4.

Any software that accesses QT directly (Adobe Products, Vegas and I believe MPEG_Streamclip) will decode the audio properly and anything that uses DirectShow loses the audio. I've also noticed that some of the pre-production 5D MKII MOV files that are online, have the FOURCC audio code as SWOT (little endian Apple Sound PCM)!

The problem also has nothing to do with MP4Splitter, since if you don't register it, the MainConcept MPEG-4 demuxer that comes with Adobe products will produce the exact same bad result with the 5D MOV files.

Methinks that Canon wanted to focus on the Mac workflow and didn't care if the 5D MKII files worked properly on a PC or not. ;-)

Ok, the same problems here that Elizebeth Lowrey talked about here. At first, Neo HD would run and work but make the videos upside down. So I installed CoreAVC and ran the
regsvr32 "C:\Program Files\CineForm\NEO-HD\MP4Splitter.ax"

And now I get the same error message that she posted from the Cineform log.

So now I am DOA. I do not have Premiere pro CS4 installed but do have cs3 installed.

Any thoughts?