I've downloaded the trial of Neo scene to use with CS3 and have successfully converted a HDV clip to a Cineform AVI with no problem. The issue arises when I place the clip on the timeline to playback. The file has above it a red render bar which means it wants to render. I've made sure to create a new project with custom settings to match the Cineform AVI with no success. Here are proj. settings:

Desktop editing mode
1440x1080
29.97
upper field first
1.333 pixel aspect
Video for windows
Cineform Compressor

How do I eliminate the need to render?

It is CS3 limitation, CS4 fixes that. Simply ignore the Red bar, it plays fine.

Title of this thread says it all.

Is there something I need to do to get Neo Scene to see my camera?

CineForm uses the Windows capture interface, so the first question is - are any other applications seeing your camcorder?

Thanks for your message David. That likely is the issue, David. I will reconnect my camcorder later and try again after a reboot when I have time. I will report back.

I'm trying to nail down some preferences for my AVCHD to CFHD archiving, and have done some tests with Neo Scene, first testing each quality setting but then using the medium quality as a baseline, I turned off the smart rendering option (I use vegas). I saw no changes in either conversion times or in output file size. I'm not sure how I would test this in Vegas, but it would seem that it isn't working because the manual says "Enable Smart Rendering: This feature is for Sony Vegas users who want faster exports at the
expense of larger file sizes. Select this option only if it fits your needs."

Here is the source data, 23 seconds, 17Mbps AVCHD, 1920x1080, FP24 from Canon HF100.

00011.MTS 49,840,128

Now the conversions:

00011-high-smart.avi 315,959,296
00011-low-smart.avi 196,836,352
00011-med-smart.avi 244,527,616
00011-med-dumb.avi 244,527,616

I have had some problems with my Neo Scene install due to older HDV installs, but I follwed a tech support response about removing all signs of previous CF products, and then I successfully reinstalled so I think everything is working as well as it should be. Can anyone confirm that the smart option is making a larger AVI output file? I was trying to quantify the claims in the manual about "faster exports" at the expense of "larger file size" but ran into this problem and wasn't able to compare outputs.

Good find, Smart Rendering is stuck on at the moment, we will get that fixed later today.

Sorry if this is right in front of me but I can't find it.

I know that Premiere handles the playback for Neo Scene AVI's but I can't find any information on how well Premiere will handle the files. I know that Prospect has a real time accelerator for Premiere so the files play back smooth. Can you give us an idea on the performance for Neo Scene as compared to something like Mini DV on a mediocre system using Premiere? How many real time streams? How about when using Premiere color corrector effects and does Neo Scene come with editing presets or do we just create our own in Premiere? Does Neo Scene support scene detect in the capture tool?

Thanks!

The native Premier engine is so machine dependent, we don't provide any guestimates. Typically Prospect is 3X faster than the native Premiere engine. Give them both a try.

I recently installed the 3 day Neo Scene trial. After uninstalling the software, every time I start Vegas 8.0c I get a 'popup' "Key Expired …. Thank you for evaluating this software. Your evaluation period is over. Please visit CineForm Home Page (http://www.cineform.com) to purchase the software …. etc. "

I've searched for any remnent Cineform files or dll's and renamed those I have located.

Does this mean I need to uninstall & re-install Vegas to rid myself of this 'popup'? or are there entries in the registry (XP) which require removal?

Thanks in advance, Graham

No. There is only one file involved, CFHD.dll, likely you PC had a lock on the file when the uninstall happened. It is located in c:\windows\system32, just delete it.

Thanks for the quick reponse David. I am sure that was the problem. I re-installed CF Neo Scene and uninstalled again. That seemed to fix it.

Again thanks

Can Neo Scene capture from my Intensity card?

No and by design. If you are using an Intensity card you want NEO HD or Prospect HD.

At the great price I thought it would to good to be true...

I'm running a FX1000 and Vegas 8.

Anyone share their experience with Neo Scene?

I downloaded the trial and let it expire before I tried it out. Actually I began to try it, had a glitch and moved on as I was swamped with non-HD work at the time and didn't have time to play with it.

I am about to begin work on some HD footage for the first time and the m2t files are definitely a bear to edit as is.

http://02bb6aa.netsolhost.com/downloads/NeoSceneV103b106-090123.zip

This is the next verion, it will also give you 3 more days on the trail.

Thank you David! I'll download it now!

Any prognostifications on when Neo Scene will be ready for the Mac?

I'm looking at 5x clip duration for spotty results just doing pulldown removal with Compressor. AE seems more reliable, but no faster. 6-8 hours of footage per project puts me up pretty late at night, babysitting Apple's unreliable apps.

The deadlines are now.

:)

Soon! More specifically it should be within the next 2-3 weeks. It's being actively worked on.

I’m using the trial version of Neo Scene, capturing 24f from my XH A1. When I drag the converted files onto my timeline the video is much shorter than the audio.

During capture/conversion the log shows:
Starting conversion into E:\neoscenetrial\CFHDCap-000.avi
Using MPEG Audio Decoder 3

Is this enough info to tell what I’m doing wrong?

File a trouble ticket with support. CineForm Support (http://cineform.com/support)
However, if it is only a few frames different, that is normal, but more that 15 frames what indicate something is wrong.

Will do. Thanks for the fast reply!

I just installed the demo for Neo Scene, and tried to capture some 30p footage from my Canon HV30. When I loaded the AVI file in an external app (Media Center), the audio was way out of sync with the video. Does Neo Scene support this mode? Upon closer examination, I realized it only has options for Maintain Source Framerate and 24p - which is different from the screenshots I have seen of HDLink in other Cineform products. I have checked to make sure I have the camera in HDV-out mode (not DV). I have filed a tech support ticket - but want to make sure I am trying to do something Neo Scene was designed to do... Thanks!

I forgot to mention that the reason I am trying out Neo Scene - in addition to a hopefully streamlined workflow - is that I have had trouble capturing video with the audio in sync in Premiere and HDVSplit - however it seems that the sync is way more off with Neo, for some reason.

Well, the problem seems to be that my core2duo laptop is still a little too wimpy to play back Cineform files at full quality in real time. Immediately after posting, I noticed the Tools menu with the Desktop Playback - Fast option. I set that, and then everything plays back fine!

Seems like you have audio problems outside of all those tools -- as there all provide correct audio sync. NEO Scene works with 30p sources without issue. Try another computer, and check you waveform in Premiere to confirm audio sync.

Yes, I should have thought of that. I'm happy you are all set.

I've been editing my HDV material natively in Premiere CS3 with great success. Since I've just bought Neo Scene to convert and edit AVCHD files, is there also any advantage to capture HDV via Neo Scene as well - or not?
Just wondering...

Yes. Editing will be less processor intensive, handle color correction better and other editing processes better. You will have larger files to edit, which is the result of converting the HDV gop to individual frame accurate files.

Thanks Chris, I'll try some scenes out today.

I have just installed Neo Scene (on WinXP SP2) and when selecting the "Split file on scene changes" option, the first clip is overwritten by the second, which has the _same_ filename ("xxxxx-001.avi").. All subsequent clips are named and captured correctly, in sequence. I have reinstalled the software, and updated to the latest version (which is '104b107' on the zip file, but states it is '1.0.3 build 106' in the logfile), and tested two different cameras - HV20 (60i) and HV30 (50i), with the same results.

Never heard of that, please file a report with CineForm Support (http://www.cineform.com/support) so we can get it fixed.

Right now I have, what I consider a great system for editing HDV with Aspect HD and capturing with HDLink and editing in PremPro CS3.

I'm considering a new camera, which is AVCHD. I was thinking of just adding NeoScene to capture and convert the AVCHD files to CF.avi so I could edit in PremPRo CS3.
Are there any potential problems having both HDLink and NeoScene on the same computer?

Are there any known problems with audio capturing the AVCHD with NeoSCene?

This seems like an economical solution instead of updating to PremPro CS4.

Thanks in advance,
John Rich

Hi John,

Aspect HD doesn't allow for 1920x1080 material, but Neo Scene does. This is the only foreseeable problem as Neo Scene also does not offer any scaling.

Getting the two to co-exist will be trivial and really just require you to manually preserve the Premiere Pro real-time components when you uninstall Aspect HD.

However, while Neo Scene is only $129, you can upgrade your copy of Aspect HD to Prospect HD for $199, which would not only make the installation/upgrade process easier, but it would give you a number of benefits you otherwise wouldn't have.

For instance, you'd get full 1920x1080 inside of Premiere, as well as the AVCHD support in HD Link. Also, if you upgrade to Prospect HD 3.x now, you'll get a free upgrade to Prospect HD 4.0 when it's released, which will ensure compatibility if you do eventually upgrade to CS4.

If, for whatever reason, you decide to just add Neo Scene to Aspect, we'll still be happy to help you set that up.

Tim,

That's really helpful. Since I am a "rookie" at this, if you wouldn't mind I just want to be sure about a few things if I upgrade to prospect HD:
1. Will I be able to capture both HDV and AVCHD with HDLink with scene selection.
2. Is any extra program required for capture of the AVCHD like Haali splitter.
3. Can both HDV and AVCHD be simultaneously converted to the CF.avi on capture.
4. Does PremPro CS3 automatically put projects for both AVCHD and HDV in the opening project list.
5. If I export the AVCHD sequence out for BluRAy is it done through File -export -movie using the Cineform HD File type just as I do with HDV now or is there a separate file type for AVCHD.
6. If I want to export AVCHD to SD do I just reset the resolution to 720x480 as I do now with HDV.
7. If I want to create a title with an alpha channel in After Effects, will the Cineform project I create work ok with the alpha channel. Right now I have to use quicktime which for HDV , but would the quicktime alpha channel work with the AVCHD as well.
8. Will AE allow me to make 1920x1080 comps so I can output quicktime at 1920x1080.
from AE. (I may already have that with Aspect's HDTV 1080 29.97 as preset).

Sorry to be so longwinded, but it would be great if you could help me out with the above.
Thanks in advance.
John Rich

I use Premiere Pro and Vegas Pro and have started converting my AVCHD footage for a higher quality post workflow.

Does anyone have suggestions re: project settings in either NLE that maximizes playback or cutting performance when using Neo Scene avi files?

I am noticing that in both Vegas and Premiere I get much smoother playback when using the raw avchd compared to the Neo Scene clips. I would love to create a preset for each app just for editing Neo clips effectively.

Thanks,
Ed

I use Premiere Pro and Vegas Pro and have started converting my AVCHD footage for a higher quality post workflow.

Does anyone have suggestions re: project settings in either NLE that maximizes playback or cutting performance when using Neo Scene avi files?

I am noticing that in both Vegas and Premiere I get much smoother playback when using the raw avchd compared to the Neo Scene clips. I would love to create a preset for each app just for editing Neo clips effectively.

Thanks,
Ed

My understanding is native files require less demands on hard drive transfer, but eat more CPU cycles, the opposite is true for frame based AVI files. I just purchased Neo Scene today after having lock up issues with editing native m2t files when embedding multiple veg files in a master timeline - cost me half a nights sleep but barely made the deadline.

One this I remember editing SD footage was that all files were ingested as AVI's in Vegas and PPro 1.5.1 - and I never had issues - I would say you need to find the bottle neck for your drives - this is where someone will probably chime in about using a RAID array to get better throughput, but I don't know for sure.

I'd rather sacrifice some playback speed for better efficiency in cc'ing and less issues around rendering. Cineform appears to provide that - although I won't know for sure until I do some actual testing.

Not sure if I answered your question or not

good info...

there are so many HD presets in each app and since I am new to cineform, I want to make sure I am using the most effecient

thanks

I just purchased Cineform Neo Scene this week. My understanding is that native m2t files require less overhead on hard drive throughput and more demands on the CPU, where as Cineform frame based AVI's are more hard drive intensive for throughput - am I correct in this?

If so, is it advisable to look at some sort of a RAID setup for editing with Cineform files in Vegas Pro 8? I currently use separate single sata drives for editing and rendering - all 7200 RPM drives.

Any advice greatly appreciated.

Fast SATA drives should be plent fast enough. RAID 0 is optional.

Thanks David :)

One more thing. Right now Cineform files are NOT optimized for CS4. They work, but very slowly as they use the Vfw (video for windows) interface.

Cineform will be releasing an updated version that will work better with CS4.

It should be comming out in about a week.

Some are have issues with explorer.exe not liking Neo Scene 1.1. If you are one of those users, please try this build :

http://www.miscdata.com/cineform/NeoScene-1.1.0.108a-Setup.zip

Let me know if that solves the crash with explorer.

P.S. If all is working, there nothing new here in this download, just a small change to the licensing software.

Let me know if that solves the crash with explorer.


Yes that seems to have solved it, at least for me. Thanks for the quick work (on Sunday!)

I just purchased Neo Scene to work with my 5d Mark 2 files on my Mac Book Pro. The trouble I am having is when I go into After Effects 7 and try to use the files, I get no picture. I can import the files and play them. I hear the audio but the picture isn't there, just a blank screen of white.

I will upgrade to CS4 eventually but want to wait until CS4 is supported.

Any help would be really appreciated.

AE7 is not an Intel native application, you need at least AE CS3 for Intel support, required by any Intel based codec. CS4 is not yet support on the PC, but no issue on the Mac (we just use the QuickTime layer.)

I just purchased Neo Scene to work with my 5d Mark 2 files on my Mac Book Pro. The trouble I am having is when I go into After Effects 7 and try to use the files, I get no picture. I can import the files and play them. I hear the audio but the picture isn't there, just a blank screen of white.

I will upgrade to CS4 eventually but want to wait until CS4 is supported.

Any help would be really appreciated.

You may need to disable some pixel formats in the preference pane. I ran into the same problem with iMovie on a Mac Book (non-pro).

Craig, AE7 is a PowerPC only application, within the Intel native implementation, Intel based codecs don't show up.

The new "b" version fixed the problem for me also.

Thank you for fixing it so fast.

Without having changed any settings, whenever I try to convert AVCHD files via Neo Scene, there is no audio on the clip. Playing it back on Media Player, there is no sound, but if I import the clip into CS3 or PE7, there is just a continous machine-gun type sound...