After a great 4-year run, CineForm is discontinuing Neo HDV effective immediately. Neo HDV was the industry's second HDV editing product after Aspect HD, so discontinuing Neo HDV is, as with Aspect HD, nostalgic for us.

Why are we making the change? As the HD camera market has evolved with sub-$1000 consumer price points and new formats like AVCHD, we have decided we can better serve new customers by offering a new entry-level product called Neo Scene that is priced at $129. Neo Scene will convert HDV and AVCHD source files to 10-bit CineForm files at up to 1920x1080 spatial resolution. We have removed many of the more professional features from Neo Scene that many in the sub-$1000 camcorder category will have less use for. So Neo HD and Neo 4K remain the "premium" products. Neo Scene is immediately available for Trial download and purchase from our website: CineForm Home Page (http://www.cineform.com).

Neo HD and Neo 4K remain with a richer set of features for independent and professional projects. We describe feature differences in more detail by following the link below. We are offering our Neo HDV customers a number of migration choice for your next CineForm product. Rather than spell out the migration details in this post, the following link describes the choices. Scroll down the page to the discussion about Neo Scene and Neo HDV.

December 2008 Product Updates (http://www.cineform.com/products/ProdUpdates0812.htm)

Not to be lost in the product changes, also note that effective immediately we have lowered the prices of Neo HD (both Windows and Mac) from $599 to $499.

Happy New Year!

Wow, this is fantastic news. Neo Scene is a really great deal.

Trying to decide between the Panasonic HMC150 and Canon Mark II. Will Neo Scene transcode both?

Thanks,

Trying to decide between the Panasonic HMC150 and Canon Mark II. Will Neo Scene transcode both?

Thanks,

Canon 5D Mk-II is not an HDV or AVCHD camcorder so it requires more than NEO Scene offers. Neo Scene is HDV/AVCHD only. All our other tools do support Canon 5D Mk-II.

If I download the new neo and neo hd as both demos to get a comparison to my neo hdv are they going to conflict with it and vegas

Hugh, you simply need to uninstall one before installing another. Don't deactivate anything, just uninstall.

Question: If I'm currently using Neo HDV and upgrade to HD, is there still the checkbox in "Preferences" if I'm using a Sony V1U or a Canon HV20 to "Remove 3-2 Pulldown"?

Also, if I'm taping in 8 Bit and then using Sony Vegas, will there be any problems using HD if it changes the footage to 10 bit?

One small gripe (as 99% of the time I'm a huge Cineform fan): if I choose to not upgrade with Neo HD, I'm either stuck with a choice to not get future upgrades with Neo HDV or pay for an upgrade to a different product. I know it's petty, but it'd be nice to be able to switch over to the lower grade product without having to pay $69.

Question: If I'm currently using Neo HDV and upgrade to HD, is there still the checkbox in "Preferences" if I'm using a Sony V1U or a Canon HV20 to "Remove 3-2 Pulldown"?

Yes!

Also, if I'm taping in 8 Bit and then using Sony Vegas, will there be any problems using HD if it changes the footage to 10 bit?

No!

One small gripe (as 99% of the time I'm a huge Cineform fan): if I choose to not upgrade with Neo HD, I'm either stuck with a choice to not get future upgrades with Neo HDV or pay for an upgrade to a different product. I know it's petty, but it'd be nice to be able to switch over to the lower grade product without having to pay $69.

I know, I have to pay for software upgrades from time-to-time, and you (I) always take a deep breath when pulling out the credit card. All software companies do this - it's an important part of the business model that allows us to continue adding new features which we do frequently. In this specific case, if we didn't discontinue Neo HDV we would have moved shortly to version 4 for which there would have been an upgrade charge anyway.

I understand about the upgrade. It's only the exact emotion you described. But understandable. I'm probably going with Neo HD anyways as I may be going with the Sony Ex-1 or 3 soon.

So I downloaded Scene. Have Vista machine from Dell. 3 gig memory. Quad Core form Intell.

Using Vegas. Intalled, but I did not download an AVC encoder, as it suggested.

In trying to start HDLink a runtime error is immediately reported. Is anyone else dealing with this type of issue ?

On top of that, the Adobe pdf manual file won't open. If I uninstall and try to reinstall again, will the trial be gone ? This happened to me on Aspect trial a while back, so I never got to try it.

Chris, we apologize. There was an error in the build that made the manual unreadable. The application installer is fine. A new build with the proper manual install will be up soon. In the mean time here is a direct link to the manual: http://www.cineform.com/downloads-other/Neo_Scene_Manual_v1.0.pdf.

David and all:

Thank you. I added the AC3 encoder. I am having the problem depicted in film posted below, at start up. I can't even get into program.

I have been having trouble with HDLink NEOHDV on both my XP and this machine (a Dell XPS 420 with a media center, with Vista). And I am able to capture with HDVSplit, so I am not thinking its a firewire issue. It is the HV20 I use as my capture deck.

Seems to be a device driver issue as that is the first thing HDlink does. Do you have AJA, Decklink or Matrox drivers installed?

Dave:

This Dell does have a TV card installed. I don't use it, and I just might pull it out, and uninstall any software, and see if that might be a problem. I'll let you know.

(OT: By the way, did a film for DVC15 using NeoHDV for pulldown removal with my HV20, shooting 24p, and FX1 with Cineframe24. Really came out pretty nice.)

Hi, David.

Neo Scene looks like quite a bargain and will probably meet most of my needs. Is there an upgrade path from Scene to Neo HD or Neo HD 4K if I need more later on?

Brian, we have always provided full value for earlier purchases as credit towards upgrades. We'll do the same for those that purchase Neo Scene and want to upgrade later to Neo HD or Neo 4K.

Excellent! I'm downloading Neo Scene as I write this! Thanks for the great product and service!

Maybe this is a slightly off-topic question but in reviewing the NeoScene product page, I have a few questions..

#1) Does NeoScene include either HDLink or a similiar utility for capturing directly from my camera and encoding into a file? I always enjoyed encoding simultaneously in Cineform .AVI & .m2t at the same time.

#2) Does NeoScene have the ability to convert - during capture - my video from its native 1440 x 1080 HDV 59.97i footage into a true 1920x1080 30P cineform .avi material?

Jon

Dave:

This Dell does have a TV card installed. I don't use it, and I just might pull it out, and uninstall any software, and see if that might be a problem. I'll let you know.

(OT: By the way, did a film for DVC15 using NeoHDV for pulldown removal with my HV20, shooting 24p, and FX1 with Cineframe24. Really came out pretty nice.)

Took Out the TVCard, and still can't get Scene to go. Out of curiosity, I tried Windows Movie maker--- same message about runtime shutting down program. However, I can capture HDV with HDVSplit, Vegas, as well as with HDLink through NeoHDV, except when I have some kind of linking or synching problem with the HV20. Anyone got any ideas. Only have a day left on the Scene trial.

#1) Does NeoScene include either HDLink or a similiar utility for capturing directly from my camera and encoding into a file? I always enjoyed encoding simultaneously in Cineform .AVI & .m2t at the same time.

Yes, it's the same interface but without as many features. For HDV sources you can capture and convert simultaneously, or else you can capture in one step and convert in a second.

#2) Does NeoScene have the ability to convert - during capture - my video from its native 1440 x 1080 HDV 59.97i footage into a true 1920x1080 30P cineform .avi material?

Neo Scene will not resample from 1440 to 1920. For resampling you'll need Neo HD.

Took Out the TVCard, and still can't get Scene to go. Out of curiosity, I tried Windows Movie maker--- same message about runtime shutting down program. However, I can capture HDV with HDVSplit, Vegas, as well as with HDLink through NeoHDV, except when I have some kind of linking or synching problem with the HV20. Anyone got any ideas. Only have a day left on the Scene trial.

Sorry I don't have an answer, the fact that Window Movie Maker fails definitely points to a device driver issue outside of our control. As for the license about to expire, use a NEO HD trial to work though the issue -- their HDV capture interfaces are close enough if you don't use the extra features.

Thanks, David. I will report back with any resolution.

What, if any, compatability issues are out there regarding use of Sony Vegas Pro 8.1 and Vista 64-bit?

Jon

Vegas 8.1 is not compatible with the 32-bit VfW codec. You need to use Vegas 8.0c.

Hugh, you simply need to uninstall one before installing another. Don't deactivate anything, just uninstall.

This applies to testing the demo of NEO HD. You will have to activate, if you decide to purchase the upgrade from NEO HDV to NEO HD. Right? At least I had to do that, when I made the switch.

This applies to testing the demo of NEO HD. You will have to activate, if you decide to purchase the upgrade from NEO HDV to NEO HD. Right? At least I had to do that, when I made the switch.

Yes, my instructions were for testing the demo. After purchasing the upgrade you have to activate Neo HD.

One small gripe (as 99% of the time I'm a huge Cineform fan): if I choose to not upgrade with Neo HD, I'm either stuck with a choice to not get future upgrades with Neo HDV or pay for an upgrade to a different product. I know it's petty, but it'd be nice to be able to switch over to the lower grade product without having to pay $69.

I agree. Even with the full credit for prior purchases, it seems to me the full credit is for the neoscene cross license, e.g. only $69, vs what was paid for the neo hdv.

And if there would have been a version 4 upgrade, then at least the product would have been supported, so if the choice was not to upgrade, it would have been an option later (even if more expensive) or at least support for the old version assuming it was on the same code base as the next release.

I am too a cineform fan, but somehow feel very let down by this.

I think a smarter cross-grade (really downgrade I think) policy that had a sliding scale based on purchase date, or just a smaller license fee, would have felt much more fair. If I am forced down into the lower product, then don't charge me much - I have already paid $$ to you and if I pay a small amount, will then be on the license path for the other product anyway, e.g. future upgrades.

I feel kind of stuck - not wanting to license for $69, but not wanting to upgrade either. So for the current situation, it's no new $$ for cineform, and I am stuck in a product that won't be supported - a lose / lose. If I had a more palatable downgrade, it would be $ for cineform, better for me, and I would be back on a supported / upgradable product path. or, a bigger discount off the upgrade to the neo HD, so it feels like a good value (vs. the $49 off which to be honest on a $250 upgrade while big, does not come across as any real deal, b/c we will still have to pay for upgrades to that).

So, despite wanting to like cineform, it just feels a bit like a bit of a slap to prior paying customers, who probably helped fund the development of the new stuff (maybe).

Can I cross-grade from ConnectHD? I never upgraded to Neo as it didn't really provide anything I didn't have with ConnectHD, but now I want to get back on the upgrade path and there doesn't seem to be one!

Thanks

Simon

I just added an upgrade from Connect HD to Neo Scene as an order option for $99. Click on Neo Scene to purchase, and the upgrade order options from Neo HDV or Connect HD will be visible.

I just read the .PDF documentation for NEO Scene and, although it is implied, it does not specifically state that NEO Scene uses a VFW-compatible Cineform codec. Will NEO Scene allow me to decode and encode 1920x1080-60i Cineform .AVI files in VFW-only applications like Virtual Dub?

Also, I currently use v3.3.0 Cineform codec in Vegas v8.0c on all my intermediate files, including 720x480 SD footage, does NEO Scene support all standard resolutions up to 1920x1080, or just 1440x1080 and 1920x1080.

Does installing the v346b NEO Player update "break" 1440x1080 encoding in Vegas?

Thanks,
John Cline

Will NEO Scene allow me to decode and encode 1920x1080-60i Cineform .AVI files in VFW-only applications like Virtual Dub?
Yes.

Also, I currently use v3.3.0 Cineform codec in Vegas v8.0c on all my intermediate files, including 720x480 SD footage, does NEO Scene support all standard resolutions up to 1920x1080, or just 1440x1080 and 1920x1080.

The HD Link portion of Neo Scene will only convert HDV and AVCHD files at their source spatial resolution. But any rendering performed by 3rd party apps using our VfW codec will support all resolutions up to 1920x1080.

Does installing the v346b NEO Player update "break" 1440x1080 encoding in Vegas?

No, it just adds updated decoder components. You should experiment yourself, but I think you'll be better off at least adding Neo Scene as the encoder is MUCH newer than the old encoder shipped inside Vegas.

Thanks, David. I'll go buy NEO Scene right now.

Alright, one more question... I am dual-booting WinXP and Vista64 on the same machine. I just purchased NEO Scene, will I be allowed to install my one purchased copy in both operating systems? Is the machine ID generated for authorization tied to the OS or the hardware on the machine or some combination of the two?

Alright, one more question... I am dual-booting WinXP and Vista64 on the same machine. I just purchased NEO Scene, will I be allowed to install my one purchased copy in both operating systems? Is the machine ID generated for authorization tied to the OS or the hardware on the machine or some combination of the two?

Yes. The official licensing policy is one machine per serial number. But we're also pragmatic, and we'll allow a second license for laptops, for dual-boot situations like yours, and for other valid scenarios. Neo Scene comes with two activations allowed with the same S/N for exactly this scenario.

Procedurally you'll have to do another full activation on your second machine (or boot) using the same S/N. The "System Code" will not be the same for the second activation. Our activation codes are keyed off the System Code.

Terrific! That seems like a perfectly reasonable policy. It's a pleasure doing business with you.

I am hopeful someone will be able to answer a couple of questions. I will post the other in another thread.

I used HDLink with the HDV trial product without a problem converting my .m2ts files for 24p and 60i. NeoScene errors out though with the following in the log.
Errors are:
Converting [file names appear]....
Building conversion graph
Error: m_graph->ConnectDirect(outputPin, inputPin, 0) (0x80040240 - IDispatch error #64) in (DirectShowGraph.cpp at 298)

Error: GetPin(pUpStream, PINDIR_OUTPUT, %outputPin) (0x80004005 - Unspecified error) in (DirectShowGraph.cpp at 296)

Error:mgraph->ConnectDirect(outputPin, inputPin, 0)(0x80040207 - The owner SID on a per-ser subscription doesn't exist) in (DirectShowGraph.cpp at 298)

Error:ConnectPin(VideoDecoder, cfEncoder)(0x80040207 - The owner SID on a per-user subscription doesn't exist) in (ConvertGraph.cpp at 3079)

I am running Vista 64 bit and as stated before, the old version of HDlink that came with HDV product works fine. Just to make sure there was no conflict, I re-imaged the machine to a state prior to when HDV was installed so NeoScene is a fresh install and it has the same errors.

Note: Is there an easy way to save the error log so I don't have to type it in?
Precise Steps to Reproduce the Problem: 1. Select the files
2. Select Prefs
3. Leave all defaults ...or ...24P
4. Click start

This is an AVCHD file from a Canon HF11


I have this opened as a case with Cineform, but they are probably busy with the new release. Thanks in advance.

Support is now back, no more support posts on the forum please.

I have a Canon HV30 that was shot in 24P mode and HDLink is not consistently creating the files correctly. When I bring the converted files into Premiere Pro CS4, some of the converted files are VERY choppy and unusable. I have determined that when they are in this state, Premiere things they are a 23.97 fps file and not a 23.976 file (the ones that come in as 23.976 work fine). The strange part is I can't get it to consistently fail or succeed. I shot the footage on a brand new tape and stopped recording twice (no rewind, just stop and then hitting record again). I can capture it in PPro as an HDV mpeg file no problem and edit it ok in a 60i timeline. When I convert the mpeg file over using HDLink and set it to split the files, it creates 3 files (the first two only take up 3 minutes the rest of the tape is an hour). The first two that are created are small and come into PPro correctly as 23.976 fps files. The third one however consistently is created as a 23.97 fps file and does not work. If I just record a 10 minute segment instead of letting it run the entire length of the tape, many times it creates the 23.976fps file correctly, but not always. Is there something that needs to be done to correctly convert and remove the 3/2 pulldown? Has anyone seen a 23.97fps file created by HDLink before?

I have also tried performing the capture directly from HDlink connected to the camera and I get very similar results.

Any help would be greatly appreciated as I am anxious to buy this product, but if I can't reliably convert files it will be a problem.

23.97? that is not coming from HDLink. Do you mean 29.97 and that the pulldown is not being removed? Please file a trouble ticket at cineform.com/support.

Question for the forum should be user related, how to do this or that. Technical failures or bug reports go to support as they can't be addressed by other users.

I just added an upgrade from Connect HD to Neo Scene as an order option for $99. Click on Neo Scene to purchase, and the upgrade order options from Neo HDV or Connect HD will be visible.

Excellent! Thanks, will order tonight (When I can get at my serial number).

Is this PC only? I have not used Cineform products but at this price it sounds appealling but looks like it's PC only. Is there a comparable final cut pro option?

Is this PC only? I have not used Cineform products but at this price it sounds appealling but looks like it's PC only. Is there a comparable final cut pro option?

We're planning a Mac version of Neo Scene but don't have a schedule yet.

For those with AVCHD "Error:ConnectPin" issue, that is now fixed. Download the preview of Neo Scene v1.0.2 here: http://miscdata.com/cineform/NeoScenev102b105-090106.zip

Please report back if you fixes your conversions.

I am running the demo of Neo Scene and when I put the new intermediate clip next to the original AVCHD in vegas 8.0c the AVCHD still plays back at 24 fps while the Neo avi drops to about 16 fps. The preview monitor is set to preview full. The AVCHD is approx 100mb and the Neo avi is about 550mb. I used full HD high setting. I expected vegas to have a harder time playing back the AVCHD than the Neo avi. Is it the file size? If so this product won't work for me.

The weird thing is, that when I click on the avi in the media bin, it plays fine in the auto preview window- but as soon as I add it to the timeline, playback slows way down.

My project file is the HD 1080-24p (1920x1080) preset in vegas. My machine is a Q9450 quad core/ 3 gig ram DDR3/win xp 32/9600GT 1GB DDR2 all service packs and drivers up to date

also, my Neo avi's render without audio??

any ideas?

Vegas is slow for third party codecs at full resolution (you will see the AVI plays fine outside of Vegas,) however if you set playback to preview Half as you will see performance gains as the CineForm performance scales much better than AVCHD files with Half and Quarter preview modes. We have talking to Sony about their slow full-res handling, thing sound promising that things will be easy for third parties with Vegas 9 (can't give details.)

sorry Dave, I modified my post after you responded... am I missing something re: no audio in my AVIs?

sorry Dave, I modified my post after you responded... am I missing something re: no audio in my AVIs?

Did you install the AC3 filter? Download from: SourceForge.net: AC3Filter: Downloading ... (http://downloads.sourceforge.net/ac3filter/ac3filter_1_51a.exe), install and try your conversions again.

I will try it when I get home. One question remains about intermediate Neo Scene in general-

how does this codec claim to be better than the original file, quote from the press release: "higher visual quality than editing native camera sources". I always thought that you can not increase color or resolution beyond what the camera's raw footage creates.

I understand it as this: Neo Scene will not increase resolution or chroma in the footage as it is percieved viaually, but will convert it into a file that will handle post processing better than the native file will. Basically you can throw more effects/corrections/adjustments at it than you could at the native file, and the final render would come out better in the end.

Am I correct in this assumption?

And further more, once one buys the product, is this new 1920x1080 v4.5.0 codec avail for use as an export option out of Vegas or Premiere Pro without going through Neo first? I like the idea of upgrading Vegas' crusty old cineform codec.

thanks,
Ed

Ed, you're exactly right. At the point of conversion the CineForm file is not better than the source. But after you render effects, transitions, etc, the result is better than if you rendered using the native codec.

Also when chroma is increased from 4:2:0 to 4:2:2 we aren't *adding* chroma fidelity that didn't exist in the source, but the 4:2:2 container adds lots of headroom for chroma preservation during the rest of the workflow.

The press release tends to simplify the topic, but for those that want to dive down deeper, you've nailed it.

Yes, Neo Scene updates the very old CineForm encoder inside Vegas to the new Neo Scene encoder.

sounds good, the only drawback I see is how large the file sizes become. But with 1.5 TB drives costing about $120 seems like a non issue. I have 1TB now for my capture drive, and at 35GB per hour, that should give me about 28hrs of space for the converted footage :) I can live with that.

If I purchase it, do I have to uninstall the demo first, or can I put in a serial number. I dont like the install-uninstall-install again thing