1) You can NOT set a slow shutter-speed (1/60th sec.) which means a strobing on fast action. There is a BS mode that promises a "low"shutter-speed. And, indeed the displayed STILL speed is a near perfect 1/40th second. This mode strobes like crazy! Looking at the picture, you can see there is NO motion blur at all from a fast moving car.

The other pix shows lots of motion blur and the video does not strobe as much. Yet this was shot in non-BS mode. The STILL shutter-speed was 1/320th second.

Clearly something very odd it going on. I continue to suspect the BS modes do not determine the movie AE operation.

2) The biggest problem with all these handholds is they are almost impossible to hold steady. (At least I can't.) One solution I've found is the Stabilize Video Filter in Avid Media Composer. It can track up to 4 points. (I use 2.) Like magic, the shot looks like I used tripod.

Also, avoid zooming and avoid any BS modes that turn-off EIS.

PS: an Avid Media Composer works perfectly with the Casio. The camera's SD card works as a source of QT files that are imported as 720p30 DNxHD files which work perfectly in a 720p30 Project.

Of course, 1080i60 files are handled the same way and work in 1080i60 Projects.

"The other pix shows lots of motion blur and the video does not strobe as much. Yet this was shot in non-BS mode. The STILL shutter-speed was 1/320th second. Clearly something very odd it going on."

PUZZLE SOLVED!

HD Movie Mode uses it's own Programmed AE function that attempts to meet two goals: (1) keep ISO as low as possible over most lighting situations; (2) keep the iris as open as possible to maximize image quality.

As illumination (EV) increases the camera behaves as follows: The left column shows the way AE is controlled for still photographs. The right column shows how gain (ISO) and iris are controlled to keep shutter-speed in the range of 1/30th to 1/100th second. As illumination reaches certain levels, ND filters are automatically engaged.


EV09 100 f/2.8 1/60th == 800 f/2.7 1/30th

EV10 100 f/2.8 1/125th == 400 f/2.7 1/50th

ADD 2-STOP ND FILTER

EV11 100 f/2.8 1/250th >> -2EV=EV09 == 200 f/2.7 1/50th

EV12 100 f/2.8 1/500th >> -2EV=EV10 == 250 f/3.0 1/100th <<<<<

EV13 100 f/4 1/500th >> -2EV=EV11 == 160 f/6.8 1/50th

EV14 100 f/5.6 1/500th >> -2EV=EV12 == 200 f/8.4 1/50th <<<<

EV15 100 f/8 1/500th >> -2EV=EV13 == 320 f/8.4 1/100th <<<<<

ADD 1-STOP ND FILTER

EV16 100 f/11 1/500th >> -3EV=EV13 == 160 f/8.4 1/100th <<<<<

EV17 100 f/16 1/500th >> -3EV=EV14 == 100 f/13.4 1/100th <<<<<

EV18 100 f/22 1/500th >> -3EV=EV15 == 100 f/17 1/100th


An 3-stop ND filter should drop EV17/EV16 (very bright sunlight) to EV14/EV13 bringing shutter-speed to about 1/50th second -- which is perfect for video.

An 2-stop ND filter should drop EV15 (bright sunlight) to EV13 bringing shutter-speed to about 1/50th second -- which is also perfect for video.

HOWEVER, all too often, when pressing the shutter-button half-way to set Focus and Exposure and then pressing the AF/AE LOCK button, the movie will be recorded at 100 f/2.7 to 3.0 1/500th. Outdoors in bright light you won't notice this exposure since it is reasonably accurate. The 1/500th shutter-speed will result in strobing. However, indoors, the video will be very dark. Under florescent lighting you'll see rolling bars. For some reason, although HD movie recording starts -- the movie AE Program is not being engaged.

If the AF/AE LOCK button is pressed and a movie recording is started, the movie AE Program IS engaged.

So, after power-up, press the AF/AE LOCK button twice (ON/OFF). From now on, press the shutter-button half-way to set Focus and Exposure and then press the AF/AE LOCK button to lock both. Now, the movie will be recorded using movie AE Program.

=========================

LV18 Bright reflection off a sunlit object, including reflections off sand and snow
LV17 White object in full sunlight
LV16 Light gray object or skin in full sunlight
LV15 Gray card in full sunlight
LV14 Typical light level for side-lit daylight shots in good afternoon light
LV13 Typical shadow cast in a daylight scene; cloudy bright days
LV12 California bright overcast
LV11
LV10 Dark, dreary overcast day in Boston, London or Paris; Well lit florescent room.
LV 9 Typical room lighting

Great Find, Steve, I will experiment with this.

What setting is your mode dial on? Also, what settings do you find most usefull for HD movie recording?

What setting is your mode dial on? Also, what settings do you find most usefull for HD movie recording?

The default (red) mode. None of the BS modes do anything I need done.

I turn-off Digital Zoom and Face Detection.

I turn-on Continuous AF as it makes focus much faster. Then Dynamic Range = 1. See my other posting on settings.

I'm confused by the EV versus LV thing. EV is illumination, what is LV? "HD Movie Mode uses it's own Programmed AE function". ? Does this mean that you cannot manually control iris or shutter speed in HD movie mode? Also, are there any major differences in how this would work in the F1 vs. the FH20?

Thanks ahead of time.

Hi to everybody, I'm new here ;)
I've recently purchased a EX-F1 and thís forum was the most usefull for me, because your detailed tests ;)
Thanks!

I'm confused by the EV versus LV thing. EV is illumination, what is LV? "HD Movie Mode uses it's own Programmed AE function". ? Does this mean that you cannot manually control iris or shutter speed in HD movie mode? Also, are there any major differences in how this would work in the F1 vs. the FH20?

Thanks ahead of time.

Sorry, LV = EV

You can limit the shutter-speed range which is typically what you want. You can adjust exposure as well as. Focus is manual or AF.

I would not go for the FH20. It is way too tiny!

I would be using it on a sturdy tripod or on a rail system, so the small size is not a problem. It's half the price, and the range of the lens is much more versatile, 35mm equivalent of 26mm-520mm. The main issue I can see is the lack of manual control work-arounds in HD video mode.

I would be using it on a sturdy tripod or on a rail system, so the small size is not a problem. It's half the price, and the range of the lens is much more versatile, 35mm equivalent of 26mm-520mm.

The main issue I can see is the lack of manual control work-arounds in HD video mode.

You do not NEED WORK AROUNDS. That's what Nikon and Canon users need. :)

You have 7.5 of the 8 possible MANUAL controls.

1) You have MANUAL WB via direct menu -- you do not need to use SETUP menu.

2) Full MANUAL focus using a wide rubber lens ring.

3) You have +/- 2 stops of exposure control -- which as much as you can safely do with digital video. This is a MANUAL dial.

4) Your shutter-speed will stay within 1/30 to 1/125th -- so this is the half. You can use ND filters to force shutter-speed lower.

5) MANUAL Black Stretch through Black Compress -- via setup menu.

6) MANUAL selection of 100IRE, 108IRE, and 115IRE peak-- via setup menu.

7) MANUAL Saturation -- via setup menu.

8) MANUAL Sharpness -- via setup menu.


I'm not really sure what's missing.

PS: You can use the peak IRE if you view via HDMI. Seems like the output will pass up to 255 YUV. For some NLE's (those that use RGB) you need to keep peak to 100IRE because that YUV value (235) gets converted to RGB 255. Other NLE's are fine with 108IRE which is legal.

First, great info here about the film part of the camera.
Steve, your insights have made me go a buy an EX-F1
and I'm very pleased with it.

Thank you ever so much!

In about two weeks I'll be shooting with a green screen for the first
time. It will be interesting to see what the results will be.
I will shoot some video for a band for their new website.
(Animations of the band members)
I'll try to get both 720p30 video and high speed footage.

Great news. I haven't yet tried the ability to use the Focus ring to switch/slide to and from 300fps. This could be a really interesting FX.

Also with the .56" CMOS chip -- getting minimum DOF should be EZ. And, the focus ring may allow rack focus tricks.

I think I'll be LEARNING for months.

Please post your results.

6) MANUAL selection of 100IRE, 108IRE, and 115IRE peak-- via setup menu.

Steve, where is this in the setup menu and how do you use it?

6) MANUAL selection of 100IRE, 108IRE, and 115IRE peak-- via setup menu.

Steve, where is this in the setup menu and how do you use it?

100IRE = Normal Dynamic Range

108IE = 1 Dynamic Range

115IRE + 2 Dynamic Range

Great news. I haven't yet tried the ability to use the Focus ring to switch/slide to and from 300fps. This could be a really interesting FX.

I use the set button instead, it feels like it's only an on/off switch anyway if you use the Focus ring. 30-300-30-300...

You do not NEED WORK AROUNDS. That's what Nikon and Canon users need. :)

You have 7.5 of the 8 possible MANUAL controls.

1) You have MANUAL WB via direct menu -- you do not need to use SETUP menu.

2) Full MANUAL focus using a wide rubber lens ring.

3) You have +/- 2 stops of exposure control -- which as much as you can safely do with digital video. This is a MANUAL dial.

4) Your shutter-speed will stay within 1/30 to 1/125th -- so this is the half. You can use ND filters to force shutter-speed lower.

5) MANUAL Black Stretch through Black Compress -- via setup menu.

6) MANUAL selection of 100IRE, 108IRE, and 115IRE peak-- via setup menu.

7) MANUAL Saturation -- via setup menu.

8) MANUAL Sharpness -- via setup menu.


I'm not really sure what's missing.

PS: You can use the peak IRE if you view via HDMI. Seems like the output will pass up to 255 YUV. For some NLE's (those that use RGB) you need to keep peak to 100IRE because that YUV value (235) gets converted to RGB 255. Other NLE's are fine with 108IRE which is legal.

I'm speaking of the lack of manual control in the FH20, I was interested in it because of its lens, 26mm at wide, vs 36mm wide with the EXF1. and half the price. But I'm pretty sure the manual controls are not as easy(or even there) on the FH20

Just trying to make sure I understand this:

To avoid the HD video exposure bug you described, one needs to toggle the AE/AF lock once after power up. From that point on, use the half shutter press + AE/AF lock operation, then press the record button.

Did a full set of A/B test recordings against my Canon HF10 this AM with various contrast and dynamic range expand values on the EX-F1 under a variety of light conditions. Except at the lowest light conditions (very dark), the EX-F1 720P mode was superior.

Thank you for the details on the workings of the contrast and dynamic range settings, its great to have this kind of control on a consumer camera.

Cheers,

Michael

Except at the lowest light conditions (very dark), the EX-F1 720P mode was superior.


Thank you for checking against your HF10. Glad to know I'm not going crazy. If I had to put a word on the F1 video quality -- I would use "clean." No aliasing on thin lines. I hate to say it, but more like film than video.

Please let us know if the AE on/off keeps you free of the bug. I showed the bug to a Casio rep at CES with his camera. It would be nice if they released a firmware fix.

----------------

The real advantage of the half-press is if you wait for the focus indicator to go green. Now you know you are in perfect focus!

And, you can use the various types of focus -- I assume.

The same may be true of the various types of exposure sensing. Hopefully, pressing AE/AF locks the current focus distance (after going green) and the current exposure reading from the half-press.

This is a powerful SLR type feature on a video camera.

I had a chance to really test out the EX-F1 at a horse show yesterday. Its certainly not the best digital camera I've owned in terms of image quality, but the ability of the camera to get the image I need from a stream of fast action more than makes up for the need to post process the images.

Here's a few shots from the show. The better versions of the HD videos are on Vimeo (Note: Vimeo seems to be having some issues this morning, 2/1), links below. The photos are resized to 1024x768 for online viewing.

Equine Affaire 2009 - a set on Flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/eskin/sets/72157613233654878/)

As a video camera, I'm impressed. Here's a couple of test shots from the same event:

HD of my wife having some fun with a little Haflinger:

Cute Haflinger horse at Equine Affaire 2009 on Vimeo (http://www.vimeo.com/3041348)

Edited SD Slo-mo of a 19 hand Shire horse and rider:

Jena and Big John on Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/eskin/3245200270/)

Next, I have to get some ND filters to try and improve the HD video strobing. I tried a standard polarizing filter (its what I had in 62mm diameter) figuring it would act as a -2 ND, but it seemed to create other issues with focus and exposure. I'll have to try a circular polarizing filter instead.

Tried some tests this morning with stacking a 62mm linear polarizing filter in front of a 62mm circular polarizing filter, with the circular polarizer on the camera side. I was able to use them as a controllable neutral density filter to reduce motion strobing on the HD video, but whenever I use the stacked filters, I'm getting this general washed out appearance on the video, like every gets gained up a bit too much. Same results for circular on circular, linear on linear, always washed out.

Not sure what is causing this. Using a single polarizer, no problem, using any combination of two polarizers, image is washed out. Almost doesn't seem to matter on the orientation of the polarizers.

If I had to ask for one feature in a future firmware upgrade it would be to display the actual shutter speed, f-stop, and gain in use during video shooting. Even if I can't control it directly using on-camera controls, at least it would be useful to help me find the right filter sets to use to reduce strobing.

Steve, how were you able to determine the actual exposure for the video based on exposure value, did you extrapolate from the photo EV ND filter/f-stop/shutter?


Anyone else tried stacked polarizers yet?


Michael

Edited SD Slo-mo of a 19 hand Shire horse and rider:

Jena and Big John on Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/eskin/3245200270/)

WOW!

Absolutely wonderful!

I've found I can mix slomo and 720p. The quality difference seems to add to the slomo -- in fact one could sepia the slomo clip to make it stand-out more. Although color worked great with your video.

How are you editing?

I know nothing about polarizing filters and video.

Steve, I'm trying to figure out based on the EX-F1 video exposure solution you came up with, what would the ND requirements be to minimize strobing in bright sun conditions for shooting HD videos of fast action (horses).

Looks to me that having a single polarizer gives about a 2 EV decrease, so perhaps that's sufficient. Time to run some experiments!

Editing is with Vegas 7. Much easier than dealing with AVCHD, where I had to transcode everything to Cineform for editing. I still have that option with the EX-F1, but don't have to.

Steve, I'm trying to figure out based on the EX-F1 video exposure solution you came up with, what would the ND requirements be to minimize strobing in bright sun conditions for shooting HD videos of fast action (horses).


I bought a 3-stop which is OK, but a greater reduction would be fine (6-stop), but very expensive ($120). Some say you can stack two 3-stop. Some say you can't. One 3-stop and one 6-stop would be ideal.

These ND filters don't increase noise?

Why would they, assuming sufficient light to keep the shutter speed relatively slow and the ISO low?

Ok, so it's not the same to rec on low light, than filter the amount received by the lens ;)
I'm still learning ;)