The limitations to the standard HDR-HC9 in Nightshot mode seem to be that the lens is always at full aperture and the gain setting is always on full. I understand that you can buy a "converted" camera or have your own camera converted. The conversion involves the removal of the existing IR cut filter and replacing with an IR pass filter. This means that the camera can be set on any aperture or any gain. If it is to be used for normal daylight use a filter must be added to obtain natural colours.

Can anyone give me any idea how successful a converted camera is for recording wild life with Infrared lighting at night and also at dusk when there is a mixture of day light and infrared?

I know nothing of the camera you mention, nor it's "NightShot" mode, so I'm going blind here.

If the said "NightShot" mode does actually allow the camera to work with IR light sources, then there can be no IR cut filter in the lens/ sensor system.

If there was, it wouldn't work with IR light at all.

I'm gonna take a punt and suggest this is a CMOS sensor camera?

OK, do this test.

Go find any common or garden IR remote (for anything whatsoever).

Arrange camera and remote so that you can see the LCD screen whilst pointing the remote into the lens whilst the camera is on.

If, when you press the remote buttons, you can see the IR led on the remote light up on the cameras lcd, it has no IR filter, as most CMOS units do not.

If this is the case, there is no mod capable of improveing the cameras IR ability.

IR occupies such a small part of the spectrum, you'de need to run the cam at full aperture and full gain to get a decent picture, which is why the camera does just that.

If you cannot see the IR led light up doing the above test, there is, indeed a IR filter.

However, it is my understanding that those sensors that do require IR cut filters have them applied to the sensor block / other bits in such a way that removal is simply not possible without trashing the entire system

The only way to get better low (er, zero) light performance with any cam is to invest in either an IR nightscope that attaches to the lens or a photon multiplier unit ditto.

Quite where you'de source such a device in Oz is a mystery to me.


CS

Hi Chris,
I do not own an HDR HC9 either but I understand that it does have a “Nightshot Mode”. This mode is used in conjunction with a built in Infrared light. To make best use of the limited output of this light the camera is automatically set to full gain and full aperture when “Nightshot” is selected. The IR cut filter is also retracted and replaced with an IR pass filter in “Nightshot”.
I would like manual control of aperture and would also like to avoid full gain. I am prepared and in fact own more powerful infrared sources that I use with other cameras for wild life work.
There is at least one firm (MaxMax) that offers the conversion that I outlined above . As I mentioned they remove the IR cut filter (permanently I should add) and replace it also permanently with an IR pass filter. This means the camera is permanently sensitive to Infrared unless an external IR cut filter is added.
I am hoping to hear from someone who uses one of these converted cameras.

I too am planning to modify my Sony HDR-HC7 camcorder so I can use the system in the daytime and nightime with night-shot mode for 24/7 IR.


This link is useful (see the video)

Internet Archive: Details: Sony DCR-TRV110 - How To Receive Both Infrared And Visible Light (http://www.archive.org/details/Sony-DCR-TRV110-HowToReceiveBothInfraredAndVisibleLight)

and you might like this site:

The HandyCam X-Ray Guide (http://www.x-raycameras.com/)

Finally, an idea I am also going to try is to use a motion sensor card that also turns on a servo motor which can be connected to the night-shot switch on the camcorder. This way, you get full color in the day, and IR at night.

Bigfoot boards components trail camera (http://www.bfoutdoors.com/bigfoot.html)

Hag's House (Powered by Invision Power Board) (http://www.hagshouse.com/forums/index.php?)

http://www.bfoutdoors.com/PDFS/bigfootlanc.pdf

Keep your eyes open and I will be posting to the hagshouse forum if I am successful with my attempt to modify the camcorder. I am also going to consider just using the servo approach instead.

Bryan

Thanks Bryan,

I have looked through your links. The most relevant to my application seems to involve the acquisition of a 1998 camera. This does not have much appeal at the moment. I would be happier with a more current model.
I have had some success for my nocturnal wildlife work using a cheap Taiwanese surveillance camera that for the price gives surprisingly good results, unfortunately exposure control is automatic only. To record from it I simply connect its composite out put into the input of a Sony PD150. If I cannot get any good news from a MaxMax user or from MaxMax I will look harder at the surveillance camera options.

Alastair

Alastair

I am going to use a PicAxe circuit the folks on the forum have designed and let it control a hobby servo which will actually move my night-shot switch on my Sony camcorder so its in night-shot mode in the dark, and regular color mode in the day; the best of both worlds.

Here is that thread:

Board Message (http://www.hagshouse.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=33718&st=0)

Good luck!

Bryan

Alastair - About a year ago I looked all over for a professional camcorder that could do high definition infrared and I finally gave up. I did come across the one company mentioned above that can customize units for infrared work, but I wasn't brave enough to contact them (at the time it didn't look like they had modified any professional camcorders). So I ended up using my Sony CX7 and HC3. They have a lot of shortcomings including lack of a real manual focus and the small lens, but I see no other options. I've built some spotlight/illuminators that can get me out to about 50 yards. Go to the link below and click on "Infrared (IR) and Night-time Video":

Nature and Wildlife Filmmaking Tips and Tricks (http://www.pronghornproductions.com/Filmmaking_Tips.html)

If you come up with a better solution I'd like to hear it.

Thanks Dan, I have checked your link – we seem to have similar problems.

I am a bit puzzled by MaxMax, I have had no answer as to whether their conversion would be suitable for wild life work or if they can refer me to someone or to articles by someone who has used one of their cameras for this purpose.

I have just discovered a BBC – Science & Nature site that gives some information behind the scenes of their wild life documentaries. The site mentions newly developed cameras used in Big Cat Diary and elsewhere for infrared work. Some superb sequences are shown. However no camera details are given but as these cameras are used with 40:1 zooms I suspect that they are well out of my league.

When I find out how, I will post a sequence or two taken with a cheap security camera.

I seem to remember something years ago when these first came out about people looking at girls on the beach in nightshot mode. Sony then responded and changed the camera so that it wasn't useful during daylight.

If that is true then that would imply it is something in the software, not a physical filter, that causing it to be difficult to use in daylight.

Of course, yo could partly solve the problem with a string ND filter.

--Darin

I shot this footage with my HC1. (Obviously this is a low-res YouTube version of the original and does no justice to the hi-def original).

YouTube - Raccoon Just Hangin' Out (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_tJF3QKWNA)

I am constructing a box of tricks to record timelapse (onto the memory stick) that will automatically switch between IR and normal as well as turn on IR illumination as required. I think the out-of-the-box capability of the camcorder is quite remarkable given its price.

The wildlife folks I know generally use 12volt security cameras coupled with a battery powered DVR for this kind of thing. The cameras are IR-sensitive but with sufficient iris control to handle daylight. The color models are less IR sensitive than the monochrome ones. Some of these cameras have better-than-1080P resolution, for example, google "Sanyo VCC-HD4000"

I seem to remember something years ago when these first came out about people looking at girls on the beach in nightshot mode. Sony then responded and changed the camera so that it wasn't useful during daylight--Darin

Darin, the story I heard was that when set to Nightshot the IR cut filter is removed and an infrared light is turned on. Sony then modified the system so that the exposure and aperture are both set to maximum; steps that will ruin daylight shots while leaving some IR capability. ND filters may restore some function but it does not help me.

The Max.Max conversion sounds interesting, however it has taken three months to get a response to my eMail and even then they cannot put me in touch with anyone who has used a conversion for similar purposes, neither do they say whether it will or will not suit my purpose.

[QUOTE=John Miller;1056166]I shot this footage with my HC1. (Obviously this is a low-res YouTube version of the original and does no justice to the hi-def original).

Hi John, thanks for showing your IR shot of the raccoon, I would like to see the HD version. I will have to find out how to post some of my material. What lighting were you using? I have been using a lighting set-up that it is well away from the optic axis and this seems to reduce the eye-shine problem and also helps with texture.

[QUOTE=Graham Hickling;1056597]The wildlife folks I know generally use 12volt security cameras coupled with a battery powered DVR for this kind of thing.

Thanks Graham, as I mentioned above I have had some success with monochrome security cameras but I am having trouble finding one with manual exposure control. I will check out the Sanyo VCC-HD4000

I used this for illumination:

Weatherproof IR Illuminator (http://www.supercircuits.com/Infrared-Illuminators/IR25)

and I recorded directly to a laptop (for 8 hours!) while I slept.

The camcorder was about 50 feet from the tree. The IR lamp was a similar distance but off-axis by about 30 degrees. At 90 degrees, the shadow of the feeder fell on the trunk of the tree.

[QUOTE=John Miller;1058304]

I used this for illumination:
Weatherproof IR Illuminator[/url]

and I recorded directly to a laptop (for 8 hours!) while I slept.


Thanks for the details of your light, it sounds interesting. I have been assembling kits with 32 IR l.e.ds. per kit, so far I have assembled 9 kits at great expense, a lot of soldering and not much output. Luckily my subjects are usually less than 3 feet away. I have been directing the output of my surveillance camera(s) into a PD 150. If I am using two cameras I select the output of choice with a simple switch in which case I have to be nearby. Otherwise I just let the camera run and I can get out of the animal's way.

hi Guys i thought i might add my test footage using near infrared now this camera is a modified CCTV its a typical Silicon CCD but i have removed the band pass filter so the sensor now sees from 380nM to 1.2uM ok not quite 1200nM its QE drops like a sack od S**t after 1180nM but heres the test anyway light is home made 216 x 850nM ultrabright LEDs rinning on a 2.8Ah lead acid gel battery (YUASA) which too me 5 hrs to solder the bloody thing together
YouTube - Mike Dixon helps test the new lights (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-c_lPvTDKrE)
Dont expect nothing wonderful guys its still in the test phase although ive done a bit of work with itand its only SD 576i

Hi Tony,

The LED panels that I used in the post above came in kit-form from Keno. Each kit uses 32 LED's and draws ~ 300 mA at 12 volt DC. Does all this sound familiar? I have soldered up about 10 kits.

Also what was the original function of the camera you used? Did you use an IR lens?

Hello Guys and Girls
OK lets kick off with i have a new channel on You Tube to throw the odd idea at you guys Infrared lighting for the outdoors is a subject that seems to go above even the pro group as i have asked what they use and i get oh that a trade secret which to me translates to I dont have a clue cos Trevor built it in his shed for the BBC... so heres my 2 bobs worth of clips while testing my very own hany work and the fact ive been doing this since the days when camcorders used full sized VHS tapes.
YouTube - outithewoods's Channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/outithewoods)
This in conjunction with wall2rockclimbers channel have mad the odd IR video in even adverse weather now dont expect too much as you tube is in 480p at best and the master recordings are only 576i AVI with sound being 16bit 48KHz PCM but it gives you an idea
ATB Tony

The limitations to the standard HDR-HC9 in Nightshot mode seem to be that the lens is always at full aperture and the gain setting is always on full. I understand that you can buy a "converted" camera or have your own camera converted. The conversion involves the removal of the existing IR cut filter and replacing with an IR pass filter. This means that the camera can be set on any aperture or any gain. If it is to be used for normal daylight use a filter must be added to obtain natural colours.

Can anyone give me any idea how successful a converted camera is for recording wild life with Infrared lighting at night and also at dusk when there is a mixture of day light and infrared?

OK guys this is the test i did 1 scrap CCTV camera ala Skip ,removal of BANDPASS filter and rebuild vs a Panasonic 3CCD Camcorder.
YouTube - Infrared Camera Test (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzLjC3jH1Xk)
This channel is mainly for testing field video kit made from very basic consumer kit and salvaged scrap if and when found in the rubbish at work.
please take note of this when you comment on Picture & Sound quality and feel free to add any constructive advice if you are a pro producer of video.

Hi Tony,

The LED panels that I used in the post above came in kit-form from Keno. Each kit uses 32 LED's and draws ~ 300 mA at 12 volt DC. Does all this sound familiar? I have soldered up about 10 kits.

Also what was the original function of the camera you used? Did you use an IR lens?

it took me 5 and a half hours to build the IR216 light thats 216 5mm ultra bright water clear 850nM LEDs so yea i know lol :0)
OK the Camera its a junked CCTV camera from work, i removed the bandpass filter and rebuilt it focal length is a little off without the filter so i had to move the lens in closer to the CCD as it is on this camera and for those who want to know CMOS are the same as far as their QE at IR silicon based sensors drop out at about 1180nM (1.18microns) so for near Infrared imaging the work ok if you flood the area with Ir light low enought so you and any mammal cant see it but not so low as you loose the sensors peak which is about 950nM before it starts to drop , so yes 940nM LEDS do work and are totally invisible to us but more expencive if you have the money the look at RAYTECHs RM300 IR light and their full range .oh for a lottery win right now new cameras and lighting here i come :0)