Just aquired a GY-HD200 U unit with a 17x5 Fujinon lens. I shoot in DV 4:3 as we haven't made the transition to HDV as of yet.
This is a very elementary question but...How does one focus with this unit/setup? Simply put...I zoom in, focus tight, pull out and everything is soft on dub out. It looks okay in the viewfinder and with Focus Assist on..everything is reading blue both tight and wide. I've checked the back focus adjustment and it seems set okay. I've tried this in both a low light setting, outdoor shoot, and studio setup. All three ways produce a soft output.
I'm using TC3 settings. The color and everything else seems fine. However, I can't get a true focused shot to save my life. I'm sure it's something I'm missing but I'm clueless at this point. Any suggestions of other items/ways of shooting/settings to try? Thanks.

If this is happening then it is likely your backfocus adjustment.

The only other thing that could cause this is an improper seating of the lens mount.
Follow the correct backfocus procedure (http://www.dvinfo.net/prohd/Sample2.html) again and if the problem persists then remove the lens, ensure the mount is clean and free of metal burrs and then re-mount and re-backfocus.

Make sure to use an external monitor for setting backfocus as the LCD doesn't have enough resolution to make an accurate call. I agonized over focus for the first two weeks I had mine, then set it up with an external HD monitor (I shoot 720P60 with mine) and everything became tack sharp.

I've been told that this camera is WAY different than the Sony DSR-250 I had been using. However, I've got to thing that the camera/lens combo would allow (with adjustments) me to focus a shot and not have it look soft. Is that a safe assumption? I guess the main question is...should this camera react different and limit me in DV mode vs. HDV mode? I would think not as a camera can focus if setup properly...correct?
Would there be any internal settings that should be adjusted as well? I know the menus are deep and are close to factory settings.

Tim,

Fix your back focus well and have your detail setting at normal at first. That way from there you can adjust it to suit your taste. Most of us even found the camera "too sharp" out of the box and lowered our detail. Some even put it at MIN. In my case , since I use it with a lens adapter and the GG introduces diffusion, i only lowered it at -1 to compensate.

BUT FIRST get your back focus right. Use a large monitor and your focus assist to nail it.

A word of caution, make sure that your peaking is not high since this gives you an illusion that your shots are sharp. I recommend only a dash of peaking + focus assist to nail your shots. -again this is with the assumption that your backfocus is already set.

This Camera is really different from the sony, that has a fixed lens while the jvc has a professional form lens. Even the amount of tweaks in the menu that you can do with this camera is very professional. Do not be intimidated though, give time to learn this baby and this will give you great footage.

Ted

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll run through all of them and see what comes out. I attribute some of this to the new setup but I can't think a sharp focus in DV, 4:3 mode isn't possible with this camera. I've been going crazy stepping through menus and setups. THanks again.

No offense Tim but stay out of the menus and set up the lens. The issue you've described is caused by ONLY one thing: back focus. If it's in focus at the tele end and soft at the wide end, it's back focus. Ted gave you the right idea around detail. Leave it at standard before setting up back focus.

As well, ensure you haven't accidentally engaged the macro function on the lens. The macro ring should be fully locked or else you'll never get focus throughout the zoom range.

Shaun,

No offense taken. The only adjustments made in the menu are to setup the True Color 3 menu settings and adjust to 4:3 DV Mode. Otherwise, nothing else has been tweaked. Unfortunately, I've had my JVC rep. and another video professional in the area check the back focus as well and come up with the same results. I have the JVC rep. coming out again next week to take a look at it. Also, the macro is locked in place.
I had an outdoor press conference shoot earlier this week. Sunny day so lighting (or lack thereof) wasn't an issue. Shot it and through the view finder things looked okay after focus. However, in dub out (and viewing on monitor from composite out from camera), things looked a bit soft on the framed shots of the speakers. That was the last straw with regard to really starting to reach out for help. I've had (3) inside shoots and those brought the exact same results. I've put the camera to the side until I meet with the JVC rep. next week. We'll setup a studio-type setting and go through the paces as noted and see what shakes out. I'm expecting similiar results but keep hoping it's something as simple as the back focus. Thanks again.

Yup, that sounds like a legitimate problem. Please let us know how this gets resolved. And it sounds like you're in good hands if you've got the JVC reps involved.

One other note as I wait for the JVC rep visit....here are the only changes made in the menu other than the bold notifications in the manual...some of these were done to get me to the TC-3 setting as well as some by the JVC rep during his initial visit...just making sure something here doesn't jump out to anyone...

CAMERA PROCESS
(menu 1/2)
Detail-Min
Skin Detect-On
(menu 2/2)
Knee-Manual (90%)

Advanced Process
Gamma-Cinema (Level -1)

Otherwise, things are the same other than going DV, 4:3.

Detail at Minimum will cause the image to go "soft" but not out-of-focus. If you're used to the edgy sharpness of Sony DVCams in "normal" configuration this MAY affect one's perception of in-focus.

Tim,

Shaun is right about that min setting. A friend of mine who has an HD100 always felt his lens was off. His back focus was also not set well and the perceived softness was exacerbated by min setting in detail.
As I suggested, bring it up to NORMAL first then set the backfocus. ALSO try not to set your iris at full OPEN and use anything below F2.8. full open on this particular fujinon tends to soften the image and introduce lateral CA.

I have the HD100 and HD200 to confirm my findings on this.

Ted

Well...we have put the camera at NORMAL for detail and adjusted the black stretch a bit. It seems better but I have to field test it later this week to see. We tried a 250 model with an 18 lens and it was better. I tried using my eye rather than leaning on focus assist and that seemed a bit better. However, the field test will prove if it was a me thing or what. I'm not in a true news environment but rarely do I have the time to setup lighting and/or do much more than white balance and roll. We'll see if this settles down. Thanks again for all the help along the way. I'm hoping I'm seeing the "focus" at the end of the tunnel now! :)

Well...we have put the camera at NORMAL for detail and adjusted the black stretch a bit. It seems better but I have to field test it later this week to see. We tried a 250 model with an 18 lens and it was better. I tried using my eye rather than leaning on focus assist and that seemed a bit better. However, the field test will prove if it was a me thing or what. I'm not in a true news environment but rarely do I have the time to setup lighting and/or do much more than white balance and roll. We'll see if this settles down. Thanks again for all the help along the way. I'm hoping I'm seeing the "focus" at the end of the tunnel now! :)

Hi Tim,
At this stage i would take it back. There is something wrong as this camera will give you excellent results.

Just aquired a GY-HD200 U unit with a 17x5 Fujinon lens. I shoot in DV 4:3 as we haven't made the transition to HDV as of yet.
This is a very elementary question but...How does one focus with this unit/setup? Simply put...I zoom in, focus tight, pull out and everything is soft on dub out. It looks okay in the viewfinder and with Focus Assist on..everything is reading blue both tight and wide. I've checked the back focus adjustment and it seems set okay. I've tried this in both a low light setting, outdoor shoot, and studio setup. All three ways produce a soft output.
I'm using TC3 settings. The color and everything else seems fine. However, I can't get a true focused shot to save my life. I'm sure it's something I'm missing but I'm clueless at this point. Any suggestions of other items/ways of shooting/settings to try? Thanks.


I had the same problem..Do this...

- Hold the camera so that the smart side is facing you (where you see all the controls)
- On the lens you'll notice the word "Macro" with 2 vertical lines
- Right below the lines, there will be a little screw or knob
- Make sure that the two vertical lines are not off...they should be aligned with each other.
- If they are off, then loosen the screw and align them....also make sure that the Macro is not turned on

Hope this helps...I learned this the hard way!!

I had the same problem..Do this...

- On the lens you'll notice the word "Macro" with 2 vertical lines
- Right below the lines, there will be a little screw or knob
- Make sure that the two vertical lines are not off...they should be aligned with each other.
- If they are off, then loosen the screw and align them....also make sure that the Macro is not turned on



This is not entirely correct.

Please refer to your manual on setting your backfocus using a siemens star or a focus chart approx 3 meters away. A use of a reliable monitor is recommended.

Its not just a matter of "loosening the screw and aligning the lines".

Ted's right, back focus is critical but you really shouldn't be having this trouble this camera is usually excellent.

With DV I would start with detail at normal and I wonder if your skin detail is properly set-up? I'd switch it off and have another go.

Okay...follow-up to original question....I'm setting up for an indoor shoot. I've got a ton of light (too much probably) thrown at the interview set. The iris is cranked wide open. If it drop the gain to -6, it closes a little (2 to 2.8 in auto). However, the image is still WAY too dark. I'm using the preset in the camera so I've not tweaked anything other than the safe area being shown.
Still seemingly pulling my hair out trying to get this thing right. I would imagine that the focus issue could be linked to poor light pickup but not sure.
Understand this isn't point-shoot but I've never seen reactions out of a camera like this seemingly right out of the box.
White balance is in 3200K...
Any suggestions/thoughts? I'd hate to shoot and have to "fix" in post but I've got to do something as my other camera is down right now.

Is the shutter engaged? How about neutral density filters? Polarizer or ND filters in front of the lens? Any of these will decrease the amount of light hitting the imager.

Shaun...Shutter is OFF, ND filter OFF, no filters on the lens. I've shot outside with no realy issue like this and with ND1 on. That's what is puzzling to me about this setup. I have a loaner lens from the JVC rep right with mine due in this afternoon. I doubt that will alter anything but I've got to figure it's something with the camera settings and/or in general that I'm missing completely.

Okay...follow-up to original question....I'm setting up for an indoor shoot. I've got a ton of light (too much probably) thrown at the interview set. The iris is cranked wide open. If it drop the gain to -6, it closes a little (2 to 2.8 in auto). However, the image is still WAY too dark. I'm using the preset in the camera so I've not tweaked anything other than the safe area being shown.

There are a few basic issues here.


There is no such thing as "too much light" on any indoor set. You can always compensate with iris, shutter or ND filters to reduce the light entering the sensor.
There is no negative gain available on the ProHD cameras. You have increased your gain to +6dB, hence increasing the sensitivity by about 2/3 of a stop, but also adding video noise. For the cleanest image leave the gain on 0dB.
It sounds like you are relying on auto iris to determine your exposure and it is consistently too dark for your liking. You have tried to compensate by adding gain, but the camera just closed down the iris to give you the same exposure. You could crank it to +18dB and the iris will continue to close down to give you the same exposure.
If you don't want to set your exposure manually (M/A switch on lens) then you can adjust the preferred auto-exposure level in CAMERA OPERATION --> AE LEVEL. Positive values will give you brighter auto exposure levels. Try +2 and see how you like it.
The auto-exposure uses averaging of light levels in the scene to determine exposure. However, if you have a "hot spot" in the set (or interviewee backlit by a window) it can throw things off and the AE may try to iris down to compensate.
If you are still unhappy with the exposure after trying the suggestions above then go into the ADVANCED menu and try an alternate gamma curve and/or increase the gamma to shift the sensitivity in the mid-range.


This has gone off topic a bit but did you ever solve your back-focus issue?

Tim...as for the focus issue...I'm not sure...By saying that...the image appears to be less soft with the detail now adjusted to normal from the previous MIN setting. However, it's tough in some regards to really tell as the darker issue could be "clouding" the result. I was wide on an outdoor parade shoot so it was tough to pickup on softness as much as it had been with previous tapings where I was in close.
The shoot I'm working on between responses calls for tighter shots mixed with wide. The result appears to be better. The only real adjustment was the detail setting.
Sorry about the -6 db...you are right...+6...
I had been trying to use manual IRIS but since it was maxed out anyway with darker than preferred amounts I just went to AUTO. You are right about adjusting the gain as it really doesn't make that much of a difference...slight but not overkill for what I'm seeing.
As for the AE level...it's on NORMAL right now.
As for the GAMMA, it's on standard with NORMAL level.
Black is also set at NORMAL with the stretch level at 4 as well as the compress level at 4.
Skin detail is ON at -2.
Master black is -3, detail is normal as is V/H. Not sure if any of these settings indicate anything at the moment.
The Sony DSR 250 I had before seemed to operate fine under these exact settings with lighting and locations. I'm still learning what's what with this camera. I like the colors but find everything is darker than I prefer and there is/was the issue with the softness in output.
I've quit using the Focus Assist and just go naked-eye in an effort to see what's what without factoring any other option/viewpoint into it.
THanks again for the information. I'm going to try your suggestions and see where that leaves me.

UPDATE....I tried the AE adjustment while in Auto Iris...I didn't see any change in the view finder by moving anywhere off NORMAl...I tried up to +3 and down to -3 with no change in what I was seeing.

I did adjust the Gamma Level to +4. That seemed to help and I'm going to try that setup and see how it goes with brightness. The IRIS is still at 1.4 (# might be wrong) but it's one step below OPEN. It seems to teeter between 1.4 and OPEN.

Shaun...Shutter is OFF, ND filter OFF, no filters on the lens. I've shot outside with no realy issue like this and with ND1 on. That's what is puzzling to me about this setup. I have a loaner lens from the JVC rep right with mine due in this afternoon. I doubt that will alter anything but I've got to figure it's something with the camera settings and/or in general that I'm missing completely.

Of course there is something wrong with the camera. Take it back. Even if you do use auto iris it is still able to get enough light.

Well loath to add to the confusion after better people than I have helped. but here are my 2 cents worth.... It's review I know, but just in case I add something the anyone may have missed or forgotten about....

1. I check backfocus about once a month or before every paid project. focus-star at least 12 feet preferably farther from camera. Live output to a 32" or larger HD monitor. Keep the light as low as possible (ND1 or 2 if necissary... yes I know I can't spell) to keep the aperture wide OPEN to narrow the depth of field as much as possible. Zoom all the way in, focus, zooming back watching the center 1" of my field of view on my 32" HD monitor looking for the moir pattern, set backfocus. Repeat at least 4 times because I'm obsessive compulsive. Chain link fence across the street is also a good choice if you lost your star.. just open the window so the muck on the window doesn't confuse the issue. I have a 16x (everyone laugh now) and with all lenses, (especially the 16x, que the laugh track) they are alway softer full wide (except maybe the 13x, that lens simply rocks) and it's much more noticable in HD than SD.

2. Forgive this statement. With SD, focus is an after thought since a medium aperature will pretty much have everything in focus at most focal rangers and with SD who can tell except at full tele on the lens anyway..... HD is having to be serious about where you focus again. For a wide shot, pick a spot at the bottom of inside your rame, focus, pan up, shoot. OR if you don't have time.... the old rule was (with a med wide/wide shot) focus set at 5 feet. Aperture 5.6. Shoot. (the 16x lens pick 4.5f) If you have time, focus on your subject. Of course medium/tight, different story, zoom in, focus, zoom out to medium shot.

3. Master Black -3? I've moved back to Master-Black normal from -1. This really helped out in low light situations. I also keep Edge Enhancements at Normal or -3 for natural environments for snappyness, but around man made objects/straight lines (or close ups of peopel's faces) about MIN or -8.

I wouldn't put much faith in specific menue settings from the Sony line to the JVC line. I would start over at factory defaults and move from there, though defaults from both will be fairly similar of course.

I've since made these changes:
Master Black: Normal

Detail: Normal

Black: Normal

Gamma: Standard

Gamma Level: 2

The thing is, under typical room lighting, my iris is still hovering (on Auto) between 2-2.8. Don't know if this indicates anything to anyone with regard to this.
Thanks again to all for the assistance and advice.

Ok, REALLY dumb question: have you used zebra to confirm that you are in fact dark and it's not just a really dark LCD and/or viewfinder?

Shaun, as I'm learning...nothing is a dumb question.
yes....when I look at everything on my editor...I'm seeing the same response as I'm seeing in the viewfinder while shooting. The Zebra is reading the areas of brightness but the whole image seems bumped down even though the iris is OPEN or very close to it.

Hi Tim and other ProHD users,

I too have to learn to use the HD201 camera. Coming from the Sony DSR400 (DVcam) the HD201 is a whole different game. Filming in low-light area's seems sometimes allmost impossible. I do a lot of broadcast-interview programs on location and even with my cameralight full open it's not very wise to take a few steps back. That results in having the iris full open wich makes the image look out of focus. Perhaps it's the stocklens that makes it worse. I'm thinking about buying the 13x3.5BRMU Fujinon, hoping it improves the sharpness and gives me extra light. Does anyone know if this makes a big differance?

I've also been trying some camera-settings lately. The TC3 by Paolo didn't seem to work on my cam. Colours were great at first glance but faces turned out much to red in the end. I tried the DSC CDM28 last week wich made faces look yellow. After colourgrading the image was great though. I really liked the look (caused by the stretched blacks?). I'm hoping to test some other Dash-settings very soon. Tips are always welcome! As I said, I mostly use the cam for interview-programs on location for television broadcast (PAL).

The masterblack at -1 also gives me the idea that it takes away some light. Is this correct? What is the idea about setting the masterblack at -1? Can I leave it on 'normal' while using some of the Scene File Recipes?

Greetings from Holland and best wishes for the coming days!

Jeen de Vos

Jeen,

The Paolo TC for the HD200 series is not good for the red spectrum.

Paolo nailed it though for the HD100.

For the HD200, however, which has newer AD chips I found Tim dashwood's superwide setting VERY good.

You may however change the black stretch settings to Normal or 1 if you want good blacks straight out. I however to use stretch 5 since most work i do i color grade in post.

The Stock lens have a lot of "quirks" which you must learn to avoid. For instance, avoid using f stops wider than 2.8. f 2 upwards to f1.4 to open will exhibit lateral ca. And as you suspected a rather soft image.

A friend of mine owns a 13x which he is selling, he hangs out here too, Eric Gulbransen sold me his HD200 with the 16x in addition to the HD100 we already have.

They said that using the 13x is like having a new camera! They say its performance is outstanding.

-1 masterblack darkens your dark areas a bit but not so much.

Avoid using gain if you can help it +9db is still acceptable though for me in some cases.

Ted

Hi Tim and other ProHD users,

. I'm thinking about buying the 13x3.5BRMU Fujinon, hoping it improves the sharpness and gives me extra light. Does anyone know if this makes a big differance?

Hi,
If I can chip in here and tell you that the 13x lens gives an amazing difference in low light. We shoot display homes at night and the stock lens would be unusable. We do not use the iris full open however, just off or the colours tend to go a bit pink. I had an EX1 on loan the other night and the JVC111 with 13x is not much difference. That should give you an idea of how much better it is than the stock lens. If you have tested an EX1 you will know what I mean. Low light is amazing even though they look like a toy.

Question about lens...I have a 17 x 5 lens and have suffered with softness and a lack of performance in indoor settings. The IRIS as noted is usually screaming open or close. Would this lens with this camera cause this? And, would I get better performance with the 13x that some of you have noted?
My JVC rep is coming out again tomorrow for a look-see as my issue with dark images in well-lit indoor setting is continuing. As for focus..it seems better with the detail setting at normal.
I'm trying to cover all angles here and wonder about the lens with regard to some of hte more recent comments.

Hi Tim,

There is no doubt the lens is sharper if not wide open. It should never be closed off either. Use the ND filters if it is too light. I always back it off just a fraction then the picture is sharper. My detail is always set at normal. The 13x is amazing but I always got sharp pictures with the stock lens. I think your camera is buggered. I have no doubt. Something electronic inside is not right. Even if one has never used a camera before the auto iris works fine on these cameras. I use manual but cant see why you have a problem. Get the rep to give you another camera to try out.

Dennis,

I'm inclined to wonder about the camera as well. However, I want to cross off as much as a I during this process. I've had the camera about a month.
I've never been happy with the output from day one with regard to soft focus and darkness in the video. When i was shooting last week, I really started paying attention to the IRIS. Again, it was OPEN to 1.4 in a room with decent lighting as well as (2) Lowell lights (1 RIFA, 1 TOTA) on the interview area. The gain was at 0 db, the ND filter was definitely off, and I left it in AUTO iris just to make sure. Sure enough...I had to adjust everything in post due to the lack of distinction in the darks in the video and overall dimness of the output.
With my older SONY DSR-250 under the exact same conditions and in AUTO IRIS, I had no issues and could take it straight to dub out without adjustment.
I'm still hoping it's the camera or something I'm completely missing but I watched a 1 hour, 50 minute training video provided to me on the camera. It was a "this button is this, that button is that" type setup done by a JVC Engineer earlier this year. I watched it just to make sure I wasn't missing anything and I didn't see anyhting jump out to me as if to say, "Hey, this is it".
Bottomline for me...I don't see how a camera, even on basic factory settings, can't give me a decent picture under decent lighting situations.

...I had to adjust everything in post due to the lack of distinction in the darks in the video
That's what black stretch is designed for - extra response in the shadow areas.
I watched a 1 hour, 50 minute training video provided to me on the camera. It was a "this button is this, that button is that" type setup done by a JVC Engineer earlier this year. I watched it just to make sure I wasn't missing anything and I didn't see anyhting jump out to me as if to say, "Hey, this is it".
I'm curious what video this is? I've never heard of it.
Do you have a copy of my DVD (http://www.dvinfo.net/prohd)? It has almost 4 hours of material with cause and effect demonstration of each image control.

Tim this video was a demo given by a JVC person for the Air National Guard. They did it via satellite and burned a copy. My JVC rep gave it to me after delivering the camera as a "this might help you from time to time". It's nothing special but does cover teh basics with teh camera and highlights some of the options that aren't explcitly covered in the manual.
I don't have your video but have looked around to see where I could get it. I'll check your link and see where it leads me. Thanks.

Its worth getting......

Just to clarify, I believe John is talking about Tim Dashwood's video which many ( including myself) have found very useful.

yeah sorry, thats exactly what I meant..... it is much more pleasant than reading the manuals ;) hahaha, gives more info too !

If so, that would mean they would provide illegal copies from Tim's great video.
I doubt JVC would do that...

Marc, It wasn't Tim D's DVD that he got from JVC. It was something done by a JVC Rep.

this video was a demo given by a JVC person for the Air National Guard. They did it via satellite and burned a copy. Ah yes, the old "let's just video Bob's live presentation and burn a DVD out of it" maneuver. Well, you get what you pay for on those deals.

I don't have your video but have looked around to see where I could get it. Look no further than the banner ads on this site... but here's the ordering page:

DV Info Net -- The Complete Guide to JVC ProHD Training DVD by Tim Dashwood (http://www.dvinfo.net/prohd/preview.php)

it's not Tim's video just a demo a JVC person had given. It covers the basics with the menus and setup for the camera. Good for an out of the box viewing as it covers more than enough to get you started. Very low tech but quality stuff instead of sorting through the manual.

Tims video is the single best instructional video I have ever seen or could even imagine for a camera. I've watched it twice in two days and am really starting to understand this beast. It is worth five times the price and more. My boss even watched it and liked it ALOT and he is picky about stuff.

Just to update the status of things...I visited with someone in my area who has (3) 250's in use. The output of my 200 matched his 250 with regard to the lighting situation. It appears to me that,due to the chip setup of this camera and my previous use of the Sony DSR-250, the lighting pickup is much different. My biggest concern is using it in an ENG situation where I don't have the ability to throw a ton of light on the setting for taping. I've shot several pieces since this started and have added more and more light to finally get something that I don't feel I have to tweak in post due to dimness of image. I'm working with the mid-range gain and throwing as much light as I can and kicking down the IRIS using the Zebra. This brings about something that still calls for adjusting as I'm battling those extreme hot spots. My lighting skills aren't the greatest but certainly I'm getting better pickup out of my eye than from the output of what I record both to tape and teh hard drive. There is a severe learning curve here as to what will and won't work.
In relation to the focus, that seemed to creep in when the iris was jam open and I got a general softness in the video.
I've been told to avoid using the focus assist in the DV mode as it really doesn't seem accurate. I'm not ready setup wise to move to HD at this time and hopefully over time I will and things will pickup.
Thanks again for all the updates and responses from everyone.