Im thinking of buying a new FX7 but Im wondering about the low light issue and the 1/4"cmos because of some things Ive read.I do not have a cam. right now and I shoot mostly outdoors(surfing and skateboarding) so Im wondering how the FX7 would perform in low light outdoor,clouds,overcast,fog etc..My budget is at about $2100.00.B&H has a good price on GL2's w/a rebate offer and Ive been looking at a VX2100.I dont have to shoot in HD and at this time do not have a program to edit HD but it seems like it would be a good idea to have down the line or if someone requests it?I also like to shoot bands indoor which could be a problem with the 4lux rating?Im not making alot of money(if any) on my stuff but it seems to be heading in a good direction and I need a camera.Any input is greatly appreciated.
Thanks.

Im thinking of buying a new FX7 but Im wondering about the low light issue and the 1/4"cmos because of some things Ive read.I do not have a cam. right now and I shoot mostly outdoors(surfing and skateboarding) so Im wondering how the FX7 would perform in low light outdoor,clouds,overcast,fog etc..My budget is at about $2100.00.B&H has a good price on GL2's w/a rebate offer and Ive been looking at a used VX2100.

You may want to research exactly what people are referring to when they say "low light" -- I'd like to see some clips myself. What you described isn't low light to me, unless the sun has already set.

I just bought a FX7 myself and definitely think it's worth the money, I love the controls, ease of use, and image quality. It's a fun camera to use.

I ran some tests in what I'd consider low light (too dark for me to shoot in without adding light). From what I'd read, I expected terrible footage but I was surprised and thought it did a pretty nice job. So, I guess it depends on what's considered low light and what you're shooting.

Not much else in HD/HDV in its price range. If you don't need/want HD then a VX2100, XL2s, GL2, et al., would be a good choice. The nice thing about a HD camera is that you can shoot in HD and down convert to SD now and know you have all the gorgeous footage in HD for later.

Good luck!

Thanks Dave.About the HD/SD, thats the way Im thinking(shoot HD and edit SD)
I dont think Ill be shooting any weddings unless its a friends, which seems to be the main arguement over the 4lux.As far as the price those 3 are all in my range Ive just read so many arguments between the FX7 and the VX2100 and time is kind of a big deal right now so I need to pull the trigger on one.

Thanks Dave.About the HD/SD, thats the way Im thinking(shoot HD and edit SD)
I dont think Ill be shooting any weddings unless its a friends, which seems to be the main arguement over the 4lux.As far as the price those 3 are all in my range Ive just read so many arguments between the FX7 and the VX2100 and time is kind of a big deal right now so I need to pull the trigger on one.

I don't have a lux meter but 4 lux has got to be dim. I shot in a room lit by a 60 watt bulb and wasn't expecting much. I had no problems shooting, camera didn't seem to hunt for focus, etc. WAY better than I expected from what I'd read. I plan to take the camera out at dusk in the next week and shoot as a test.

One thing, if you decided on a FX7, since everyone (B&H, Amazon, Adorama) seems to be selling the FX7 for list price ($1999, U.S.) you might want to look at buying direct from Sony if you're thinking of getting the extended warranty. I bought the 3-year with accidental damage and discovered it would have been cheaper had I bought the camera from them for some reason.

Normally, I pass on extended warranties but a friend just paid a chunk when the Firewire port stopped working on his JVC. Six months later the main control switch broke and that repair cost a bit. He said spent $700 total. I mentioned to him that I was debating on the extended warranty and he shouted, "GET IT!" He's cheaper than I am, so I did. :-)

I've used an FX7 for a few years now and I love it, but it may not be for everyone. Most of my work is outdoors filming wildlife. So I wanted a 20x lens and a light camera and the FX7 fits the bill perfectly, perhaps better than any other camcorder. But it does have limitations, for example, the lens is fixed and the format is HDV (great, but not always accepted by the industry). Also, I think the picture quality drops off just a bit at full telephoto and with the iris wide open, but then again, my eyes aren't what they use to be. And I do think the low light complaints are legitimate. Based on what you said I would go with a HDV camera, and perhaps look at a used FX1 (I've used that and it is comparatively better in low light) or even a few of the new low-end "prosumer" models (but I haven't used those). But if you want HD, inexpensive, and portable, then the FX7 is a great choice.

"The reason this camcorder is so cheap or reasonable is because it compresses the signal to Mini DV at mpeg2. If you are going to use this camera to edit video, consider what it will look like after you compress it again to a DVD, which is mpeg2! Double compression! Unless you can afford a HD hard drive directly out of the HDMI, you're gonna wish you didn't buy this one. I say spend a little more and get the Canon XA1 HD cam."
This was one of the negs. from someone, what do you think?I normally pass on ext. warr. also but like you just said it could be alot cheaper in the long run.I was planning on buying from Sony or B&H probably Sony.
Dan- thanks for the input,the 20x is good for what I shoot also.Havent found a used FX1 in my price range,I also am very scep. about buying used.
Thanks again.

Mike - I kind of re-read your original post. With the FX7 you will not have any light problems outdoors, even on the cloudiest of days. It's only indoors where it can become an issue. Yes, if you have an extra $1,000 then the Canon XH-A1 might be a better choice, but with that $1,000 you could buy a very good tripod. As an fyi, I often use my FX7 with a Focus harddrive (saves me a lot of tape). Also, the FX7 doesn't have HDMI, but it does have a Firewire. Good luck.

Hi Mike,

1) Every HDV camera stores its footage as an mpeg2 transport stream on a MiniDV tape. That's what "HDV" means, by definition. If you want a better HD storage format you're looking at, say, an EX1 at at least twice your budget.

2) I second the earlier comments that the outdoor situations you describe are not problematic low light situations in the sense that 'low light' issues are being referred to in reviews ... the problems are in poorly lit indoor situation where an FX1 will give you an extra stop or two of exposure.

At $2000, with used cameras not in consideration, there really isn't any competition IMHO - I love mine!

Edit: the FX7 does have HDMI!

"The reason this camcorder is so cheap or reasonable is because it compresses the signal to Mini DV at mpeg2. If you are going to use this camera to edit video, consider what it will look like after you compress it again to a DVD, which is mpeg2! Double compression! Unless you can afford a HD hard drive directly out of the HDMI, you're gonna wish you didn't buy this one. I say spend a little more and get the Canon XA1 HD cam."
This was one of the negs. from someone, what do you think?I normally pass on ext. warr. also but like you just said it could be alot cheaper in the long run.I was planning on buying from Sony or B&H probably Sony.
Thanks again.

Different people have different visions, needs and expectations. One of my other cameras is a Canon HV30 which a lot of people, especially pros with deeper gear pockets, look down their noses at. Yet, I've seen a LOT of seriously awesome movies from that camera (search Vimeo) and see it used as a b-rolls to a lot of other cameras. Some people have "pimped" theirs (35mm adapters, rails, mounts, LCDs, battery packs, et al.) to make most full pro cameras look small by comparison. Some have spent $3,000+ just in customizing their setup. Instead of seeing the HV30 as a camera, they look at it as the engine in their full rig.

The HV30 has a single 1/3" CMOS and is HDV. While I like my HV30, it's the size, feel, control, and features of the FX7 that make it so nice to me. I think you'll LOVE the 20x lens that I have read even works well in digital zoom mode (which I'd normally avoid) giving you 30x!

When the FX7 was the same price or real close in price to the Canon XH-A1 I'd probably have gotten the XH-A1. It's a bit bigger but larger sensors, customizable to the max -- you can download and share presets, etc. But now that there's a $1500+ difference in price, no contest, FX7. Wait a sec. The XH-A1 is HDV, too, not HD. Maybe they were thinking of the H1A which is HD and $6,000 and not the "XA1". For $6,000 I'd be looking at a Sony XDCAM EX1 and playing with a Kensington ExpressCard reader and CompactFlash cards. WAY more camera than I need right now.

Adorama has free shipping on the FX7 as does Amazon, I think. I like Amazon as they're easy on returns. If you get one and decide you don't like it they will take it back.

Also, the FX7 doesn't have HDMI, but it does have a Firewire.

Am I missing something (won't be the first time) but the FX7 has HDMI out.

Yes Dave it does have HDMI out.You like Amazon over ordering from Sony?
Thanks for your input also Graham.

Well I stand corrected - it does have HDMI out!!! Obviously I've never used it, in fact I don't know if I've even opened the cover to the port (I use one of my other camcorders for those rare times I want to send something strait to the HDTV).

I'm reluctant to advise someone to judge video quality from the web, but I recently sold some footage to Nat. Geo and Discovery using the FX7. Go to HD Nature Footage Video Clips (http://www.hdnaturefootage.net) and type "vole" in the search box, specifically clips V02111 and V02152 (there was one other, but I don't have it at my fingertips right now). The footage was filmed indoors, but I used several lamps.

Also, when reading reviews, be aware that there are some people that are just critical and no one makes anything good enough for them. Have serious top of the line gear and see anything "less" as a waste of time and money. Or, are absolutely crazy about the pure quality of the image, even more so than content.

So, you could have an awesome surfing or skateboarding video that surfers, skateboarders and others can't get enough of watching. They'll praise your skill and brilliance in creating something so moving, and can't wait for you to go and create more. Yet, someone will see it and not see the movie for the content, but will criticize the focus, the color, find that it has too much noise in the shadow areas, the sand isn't crisp enough...

Consider yourself and your audience first.

Yes Dave it does have HDMI out.You like Amazon over ordering from Sony?

If you're not sure and want to test the waters, yes. The lower price on the extended warranty (should you want it) is outweighed by the return policy at Amazon. Then, Sony may have a 30-day return policy, too. I'm not sure. I have returned something to Amazon as it was zero hassle.

As an fyi, I often use my FX7 with a Focus harddrive (saves me a lot of tape).

What is a focus hard drive?

"The reason this camcorder is so cheap or reasonable is because it compresses the signal to Mini DV at mpeg2. If you are going to use this camera to edit video, consider what it will look like after you compress it again to a DVD, which is mpeg2! Double compression! Unless you can afford a HD hard drive directly out of the HDMI, you're gonna wish you didn't buy this one. I say spend a little more and get the Canon XA1 HD cam."
This was one of the negs. from someone, what do you think?I normally pass on ext. warr. also but like you just said it could be alot cheaper in the long run.I was planning on buying from Sony or B&H probably Sony.
Dan- thanks for the input,the 20x is good for what I shoot also.Havent found a used FX1 in my price range,I also am very scep. about buying used.
Thanks again.

OK, Mike - one suggestion, be careful where you get your "reviews" - whoever wrote that bit on compression was an idjit to put it mildly. ALL HD requires compression, otherwise you're dealing with HUGE file sizes, it's just a matter of the quality of the compression algorithm and the electronics/optics. AND as noted, there is the option of a recording direct from the HDMI, but it's not a "typical" setup. BTW, the Canon records to the same MiniDV tape, and for the most part you could take the tape out of a Sony and play it back in a Canon, and vice versa... some people should not be allowed out on the Internet unsupervised, and it appears your "neg" comes from one of those sorts!

THAT out of the way - buying a SD camera right now is throwing your money away for the most part - prices on SD gear are plummeting on the used market. The VX series is known for it's particularly "good" low light capability, so that's the only attraction there, IMO.

Later model HD cameras are doing pretty well in "low light" - those who expect to take perfect video of a black cat in a dark room are just kidding themselves. I've been OK with what my "consumer" AVCHD cameras can do, and adding a relatively inexpensive on camera light works wonders... The FX7 is pretty good, you need to remember to manually take it from 60 to 30 on the shutter speed if it gets too dark, but that's easy enough to do - that's how many of the smaller cams get their low light ratings - they rate at 24P or 30 shutter speed, along with commensurate noise (which is a more important factor in "low light" IMO... if your footage is noisy, what does it matter?!)

At the new price the FX7 is a bargain. It flopped because it was priced against the Canons that got sloppy wet kisses in all the reviews, while the FX7 got the snub. BUT, by and large find someone who owned or owns one, and they will likely be pretty happy campers (OK, there's one guy here who hated his, but... you can't please everyone!).

I was shocked to see the FX7 "re-released" - that speaks volumes, as I can't recall Sony or any other company "re-releasing" a discontinued model... there's only "new and improved" in marketing consumer electronics, resurrecting a 2+ year old model has got to be a first of some sort. Either they had a forgotten warehouse of them somewhere they needed to clear out, OR they realized it met a market and they could produce it at the lower price point and meet that market.

Personally I wanted to see them make a tapeless version of the FX7, with any upgrades in the sensor block/firmware for Bionz/EXMOR, but the FX7 is a darn fine camera any way you slice it for the price, and still a favorite for me. Underrated, to be sure, but somehow the feature set and capabilities just seem so practical when using it, and it does shoot great video under most practical circumstances. If the light is too bad, add a light.

HTH with your decision!

Thanks Dave-I always take reviews with a grain of salt>I thought Id put that one up since there are alot of knowledgeable people on here.Im also a musician and have had my fair share of reading reviews and purching equip. alot of times its your own preferance.Believe it or not Ive actually been looking on the private classifieds on DVI....started thinking of a used canon XH-A1 too many choices.Any comments on a used Canon XH-A1 compared to a new Sony FX7.Money is an issue so batt.,chargers and filters are an added bonus if its a good cam. and good deal.

Being honest having owned mine for 2 years i would not buy one again,the picture is sharp but the colours have never blown me away even now after much experimenting and getting the settings the best they have been.On my FX-7 hand held is a no go as the casing noise is intrusive admittedly better with my rode stereo,I do love the lens as the 20x with D EXTENDER is great for wildlife,but the fact that i now use my SR12 for 90% of my filming says it all for me the picture is better.

Believe it or not Ive actually been looking on the private classifieds on DVI....started thinking of a used canon XH-A1 too many choices.Any comments on a used Canon XH-A1 compared to a new Sony FX7.Money is an issue so batt.,chargers and filters are an added bonus if its a good cam. and good deal.

Hmm. XH-A1 (XH-A1s is the newest version) or FX7...well, the XH-A1 is bigger... If size doesn't bother you and knowing that it's not set ideal out of the box, meaning you'll want to download and play with some presets (lots of to choose from) to get the image you want, I'd have to say I'd get the XH-A1.

There's lots of users, tips, you can buy a video on it (as well as the FX7, there's two and a ebook on it), etc. You'll be happy either way. The FX7 is probably more point 'n' shoot capable than the XH-A1 but I don't think the additional learning curve of the XH-A1 is that steep and there's plenty of help here on DVinfo and elsewhere.

Like I mentioned previously, when the FX7 was close in price to the XH-A1 I'd have gotten the XH-A1 myself. For $1,500-2,000 less, the FX7, no contest for me and my needs. I like the size and feel of the FX7 for everyday use and carry -- requires a smaller camera bag, too.

While the FX7 has some nice manual controls and features, the XH-A1 has more. Both have a 20x zoom(!), the XH-A1 has bigger sensors (3 - 1/3" CCDs vs. 3 - 1/4" CMOS) and XLR -- which will require XLR mics. Would I trade my FX7 and $1,500 for a XH-A1? Nope. Straight across trade? You betcha.

As I'm sure you know, used video gear can be a mixed bag. You can get a smokin' deal on gently used gear and have the camera perform flawlessly for years. Or you can get something that needs expensive repairs wiping out any savings and then some. While I'm hoping I never need the extended warranty (including accidental breakage) I bought, just for the down time, I sleep better because of it. :-)

I assume that you're in the Canon XH-series forum as well, lots to like about that camera.

If I had a Canon XH-A1 and a FX7 and they were both by my front door and my objective was to take a camera out and just have some fun shooting without a tripod, maybe doing some image hunting, I'd grab the FX7 first due to the size and ease of use. On a more controlled shoot with a tripod, probably the XH-A1. If I don't think I'll need a camera but want one just in case the aliens land on the road in front of me, my HV30 or Sanyo HD700. :-)

Whichever camera you get, learn it well and make some great videos with it. That's much more important than the manufacturer's name or model number.

in passing....

i always find it interesting the number of people who write asking for opinions on cameras (they do it for nle's too, but that's a different ball game), and expect a concensus answer. camera x is the one to buy....

if you're serious about buying a camera (or anything costing a sizeable figure relative to your budget), then it makes sense to go and hire one first. YOU know what you'll be shooting, and how you'll be shooting it. it's not much use asking a nature photographer about it low light capabilities, nor a run'n'gun news cameraman about use within a studio environment.

before buying my present camera i went out and hired one, i also found a cameraman using one i couldn't hire and had him shoot some scenes under ny direction (he eventually let me use the camera myself! though i could fel his nervous eyes on me all the while!).

i'm happy with my decision, and yes, this (and other forums) confirm much of what i found out for myself - but there is NOTHING at all that matches a 'touchy-feely' session with a camera, and the inner knowledge that you made the right decision for yourself...

quiet day in the studio....

leslie

I have a friend who has an FX7 and he loves it. We took it out west to Yellowstone and the Tetons this past summer. The footage he got was absolutely stunning. I recently got an SR11 and will be taking both cams out west this next summer, shooting identical scenes for comparisons. So far, from what I can see of the shoots we have done together along the upper Mississippi River, I like the FX7 picture just a tad better than that produced by my SR11; but it is really really close. As for evening shots after the sun has gone down, but not full darkness, the SR11 does better than the FX7. But even at "dusk", the FX7 does a good job, as does my SR11.

Mike

Im sure the reason so many people ask questions about diff. cameras on here is the same reason I did.For the most part you are getting a honest review from someone who has owned or used a camera you are thinking about buying.When I see someone shooting with a cam. Im interested in, we usually talk about it.The same way I buy my music gear, my computers all the way to my surfboards and skateboards(kinda tough to hire one of those for a day).I usually do not have a budget for renting or hiring an operator because well....Im the operator.Plus Im not spending thousands of dollars for a top of the line cam.,or I would rent one first.I am very appreciative of all the input that everyone gives to any question I might have,big or small.Need to know something about my 6'1" Timmy Patterson surfboard?I could probably guide you to the one you need for your ability and price range.So once again thank you to everyone for your feedback.
Mike

Depending on how "extreme" your shooting situations, you might want to take a quick look at the SR11/12, kitted out with one of the Sony sport packs and a wide angle lens - not much in the manual control department, but for a knockabout cam you could actually take right out in the surf or use in sand/wind conditions, it's not a bad idea, and you'll notice several of us here have that camera...

The SR11 can be had pretty cheap (you need a beefy computer to edit the AVCHD, but my Q6600 cheapo Fry's special BIY system works pretty well...), and frankly the video quality is pretty darn good under most conditions.

Sure, you miss the manual control of the FX7, but for the size and capabilities, the little SR (or the even smaller CX12, which lacks a viewfinder) does amazingly well, and fits in a large pocket (not in the sport pack though<wink>)...

I think the camera we are all dreaming of is something like the old TRV900, but with tapeless acquisition (or a tape version if need be) good low light, and simple but effective manual controls all accessible with good old push BUTTONS. Wonder if Sony will ever make such a beast??? Or anyone else for that matter! The SR11 with manual controls would be darn close.

Yes i have said before an sr11/12 fitted in a canon xm2 or sony tvr 900 shell would be a dream for me.

...As an fyi, I often use my FX7 with a Focus harddrive (saves me a lot of tape)....

Dan

Can you please let us know what model of Focus harddrive are you using and how are you using it? I did a google surge and I couldn't find much.

Stelios

Dan

Can you please let us know what model of Focus harddrive are you using and how are you using it? I did a google surge and I couldn't find much.

Stelios

There's a sticky in the Tapeless Video Recording Solutions forum and if you search here you'll find other threads on the use of Focus Hard Drives. FS4 / FS4 Pro HD various topics - The Digital Video Information Network (http://www.dvinfo.net//conf/showthread.php?t=77831&highlight=focus+hard+drive)

Plus the Focus web site: Focus Enhancements (http://www.focusinfo.com/)

Mike, I just received my FX7 today. I spent some time looking at my different options. The camera I have used for many years has started to have problems. That camera my Sony TRV-900 had been a great work horse for my family and thats just about all I used it for was family stuff. My wife could use the camera well and the TRV-900 was easy to transport. I decided on the FX7 because of two reasons. The first it's size (small enough for my wife to hold) made the most sense. The second is the fact that it is HD. I myself would gladly pay twice the cost for this camera or more if it could just be smaller like my good friend the TRV-900. From what I can tell is that most if not all the prosumer HD cameras that are out there were to big for just doing the "family thing". FX7 great price, really nice HD on my Fujitsu 55 Inch Plasma. The only problem so far is Now I Really Need To Know What I'm Doing.

Sorry about the delay in responding to the request regarding the Focus FS-4 (was out of town a few days). I see someone posted a link so that should point people in the right direction - thanx. A couple of thoughts regarding the product. I primarily film wildlife and I really like the FS-4 (it's an external hard drive that connects to the camcorder by the Firewire port) because: 1) its tapeless so I'm not wasting tape waiting for the animal do do something exciting, 2) it has a pre-record cache so you can hit record a few seconds after the animal does something exciting and still get it, and 3) it works well for time lapse footage. However, a few caveats. The battery that ships with the products is very poor. The unit does make some noise so make sure its far from your microphone. Lastly, the 4-prong connection between the FX7 and the firewire cable is very loose and I've had it disconnect several times when I thought I was capturing footage. Lastly, the units were worth the money a few years ago but now with tapeless camcorders all over the place the Focus products are less compelling.

I'm using a VX2100 and going to get a FX7 soon. Would anyone who has experinces in FX7 tell me about white balance in that camcorder.I know that there is no manual WB control in FX7 so how can we get best color quality with auto and preset WB ?

I'm using a VX2100 and going to get a FX7 soon. Would anyone who has experinces in FX7 tell me about white balance in that camcorder.I know that there is no manual WB control in FX7 so how can we get best color quality with auto and preset WB ?

Having owned a 2100 and now a FX-7 i can tell you the white balances are similar,the FX-7 does have manual white balance as well as outdoor indoor and auto,i find auto gives the most acurate colour on mine maual and outdoor being a bit on the red side,you can set the color level and color phase to suite your liking as well as the sharpness.

Having owned a 2100 and now a FX-7 i can tell you the white balances are similar,the FX-7 does have manual white balance as well as outdoor indoor and auto,i find auto gives the most acurate colour on mine maual and outdoor being a bit on the red side,you can set the color level and color phase to suite your liking as well as the sharpness.
Thanks Martyn for your answer.But I think that with preset or auto WB control, we can only get medium quality color for our clip, for best quality it must be manual WB control like in VX2100 or HDR-FX1, thanks for your answer

I know that there is no manual WB control in FX7
Who told you this? The FX7 has complete manual control over WB, like its brethren.

Thanks Martyn for your answer.But I think that with preset or auto WB control, we can only get medium quality color for our clip, for best quality it must be manual WB control like in VX2100 or HDR-FX1, thanks for your answer
Vinh i told you the fx 7 does have full manual control,in some cases i use it but for myself i find the outdoor acuracy better using auto on my cam but you may prefer manual.

Vinh i told you the fx 7 does have full manual control,in some cases i use it but for myself i find the outdoor acuracy better using auto on my cam but you may prefer manual.
I knew that from Camcorders - Independent Camcorder Reviews, Ratings & Comparisons (http://www.camcorderinfo.com) in product details of FX7, if there is full manual WB controls in FX7 then it will be my first HD camcorder.Thanks for all of your answers

Not sure what you were reading, but the review on that website includes the quote:

"The FX7 offers two custom white balances, A and B. Each is set by selecting either setting A or B, then pushing in and holding the jog dial until the icon stops blinking. Manual adjustments appeared accurate in their balance."

Sounds like full manual to me.

Not sure what you were reading, but the review on that website includes the quote:

"The FX7 offers two custom white balances, A and B. Each is set by selecting either setting A or B, then pushing in and holding the jog dial until the icon stops blinking. Manual adjustments appeared accurate in their balance."

Sounds like full manual to me.
Thanks a lot to everyone who answers me, perhaps manual WB control in FX is at 2 custom WB, I've missed that detail. Anyway thanks a lot.Would you please show me link to download FX7 user's manual ?

Would you please show me link to download FX7 user's manual ?

U.S. English: http://www.docs.sony.com/release/HDRFX7.pdf

GB English (FX&E): http://pdf.crse.com/manuals/2887515141.pdf

Other languages, do a search for HDR-FX7E: Main Page*|*Sony Europe Customer Support Portal (http://support.sony-europe.com/manuals/manuals.aspx?site=odw_en_GB#m=HDR-FX7E)

You can download the manual from Sony Support.

Sony eSupport - Electronics - Select Your Model (http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/select-system.pl?DIRECTOR=DOCS)

Just select country and search for HDRFX7.

Page 35-36 of the FX7E manual. You might need the FX7P, but the page numbers should be similar.

Page 35-36 of the FX7E manual. You might need the FX7P, but the page numbers should be similar.

Thanks to all who supports me