could be my preferences, but I wouldn't get anything but a seagate for my HDDs. I have had ZERO problems with my desktop seagate drives (laptop form factor on the other hand is different, and probably due to bad case design / cooling).

the stock cooler should be fine for your CPU assuming you don't OC, and assuming your case has good air flow. a bad case an almost eliminate the advantage of a pimped out cooler.

I have the Antec Nine Hundred Two case and it has fairly decent airflow. You have switch controls on the back of the case to change the speed of the rear and top fans. Two front fans have individual knob controls. I have both turned down to low and am running idle temps on all 4 cores between 37 and 39C. If you need a really quiet aire cooled case you may want to look at another product. If I had to do it over I would probably go with water cooling as the Core i7-920 Bloomfield 2.66GHz throws out a fair amount of heat.

the stock cooler should be fine for your CPU assuming you don't OC, and assuming your case has good air flow. a bad case an almost eliminate the advantage of a pimped out cooler.

Actually, with decent case air flow, an i7-920 (D0 stepping, which any new 920s sold at resellers should be of) with stock cooling (assuming that the CPU has been purchased in a retail box with its stock cooler included) should be able to be safely OC'ed to around 3.5GHz (stock is 2.66GHz). And since I got my i7-920 upgrade, I have been able to sustain an overclock to 3.5GHz with just the stock cooler - on an Intel-brand motherboard. (Granted, the Intel DX58SO I'm using allows overclocking and many of the essential voltage tweaks; however, like a lot of motherboards, it allows DIMM voltage tweaking only in increments of 0.04V. I use 1.66V for my 1.65V-rated DDR3 memory; the mobo's default setting for most memory is 1.54V.) Buying a better CPU cooler should allow you to squeeze a few hundred extra MHz worth of overclocks with this processor.

Intel recommends a maximum sustained core temperature of 70°C for its i7 processors. An overclock to 3.5GHz with the stock Intel boxed CPU cooler will achieve this maximum or slightly above at 100% load. Intel also allows peak (short-term) temperatures in the 80s and lower 90s (by default, the maximum core shutdown temperature point is 96°C).

All this assumes that you also have good-quality RAM to go along with the processor and motherboard. The first set of memory I bought for my i7 made Windows or the NLE crash every time I tried to render a long HD video project even with the CPU at stock speed so I had to replace the bad RAM modules. Bad or incompatible memory makes everything unstable even at stock.

I've had both Seagate and HITACHI in the past never had a problem with either one.
I will probably bypass the fancy coolers for now since my room is always cold in the winter but I might get one before the summer. Also I want to monitor the stock cooler for the next few weeks to see how it performs. At some point I will OC but for now I want to keep everything at it's default value to get some kind of a baseline then if needed I could start slowly tweaking. Any advice on the power supply I'm wondering if I should get a 850W instead of a 750W I might add another video card at some point. Either memory I listed would work fine right?

thanks again.

Either memory I listed would work fine right?

I think both of those speeds are available in a variety of latency ratings. The i7 memory controller seems more sensitive to latency timings than to memory clock speeds.

Second, it is best to keep the memory multiplier to as low as possible. If all of the "overclocking" guides recommend keeping that memory multiplier to 6 or 8 (compared to the base frequency of your CPU, which in all i7s and their cheaper derivatives is 133MHz at stock), this means that you normally should not run memory any faster than DDR3-1066 (PC3-8500) when you run your 920 at stock speeds. If you do stretch out the memory multiplier well above 8, you might end up actually increasing the overall latency of the memory subsystem, causing some drop in overall system performance. (An exception to this rule is higher-speed memory which has auto-detection of XMP profiles for the rated speeds of those modules; in such a case, the difference in memory bandwidth then becomes great enough to offset the increase in overall memory subsystem latency caused by stretching the multiplier too far.) But purchasing higher-speed memory does give you some room for overclocking your CPU.

hey everyone thanks for your help.

The choice between the two depends on the quantity of systems to be resold or given away and the frequency of such resales: If you're only occasionally building a few systems here and there to resell to someone else, you'd need the System Builder edition; if you're regularly building a bunch of systems to resell to other people, you'd need the OEM edition. If on the other hand you are building systems for your own personal use, the only edition of Windows that's legitimate for your use would be the retail-boxed edition.

I may be misreading the tone here but I find this reply a little overly negative. All versions of Win 7 would be "legitimate." The OEM and system builder just do not come with back of house support and yes the system builder license is for someone building for someone else but it does not prohibit you from being the end user, it does require you provide your own support. So any of the above installs would be legitimate but only the retail boxed edition comes with Microsoft support. When was the last time you contacted a Microsoft tech for support, anyone?

Kajito,
I am an avid Hitachi fan. I have had issues with seagate drives in the past and even though I know I am in the minority on this I have avoided them ever since. I have run deckstars in 320GB, 500GB, 750GB, 1TB, and now 2TB variants and have never had an issue once. I do know that the 1.5 TB were a little glitchy on XP when they first came out but do not know of anyone having issues with them since.

As to the power supply, I would recommend the 850W. It leaves you more room for expansion without starving your system down the road. I run an Ultra x4 850W on my i7 build and have been quite pleased. Although for the components you listed it seems like the smaller PS would suffice, the 850W leaves you plenty of room to max out HDD and opticals down the road without stressing your system. Hope that is helpful.

hi Bryan,

I already placed an order for the 750W I'm expecting delivery tomorrow but thanks anyway.

I've actually had a System Builder version of Windows, purchased at a computer store, whose Windows Update and its automatic update function ended up being permanently disabled simply due to the failure to resell the system to another person. So, I could no longer even get any updates for that Windows installation until I replaced that copy with a retail-boxed version. It turned out that Microsoft can legally send you software which permanently disables the function and won't even let you know about it until it came time to update the system (the easiest way to do so would have been to simply register the software with the same name or address for both the system builder and the owner). They've actually done that to quite a few machines even though none of them were using "p****ed" copies. (This came back in the early days of Vista; Microsoft instead now sends you software which simply causes an annoying change in the desktop wallpaper at varying intervals if the Windows installation is so flagged.)

hi Bryan,

I already placed an order for the 750W I'm expecting delivery tomorrow but thanks anyway.

I am sure it will work for you, especially considering your current config. Let us know what you think of your upgrade. Happy building.

Randall,
Sorry to hear you had such a negative experience. I must say it is the first I have ever heard of anyone experiencing this with a verified product key. Is it possible you got a hacked key by accident? I have heard of some people buying online (from an auction site) and getting a valid item but the retailer selling the key to multiple users. Glad you got it squared away though. In my case, i registered everything under me and have had no problem updating Win 7 Ultimate 64-bit.

Never had an issue with a OEM version of Windows...gotta watch where you buy it I guess. Newegg, tiger direct sell good ones.

well i just ordered vegas9, and want to buy a pc already setup, best buy to do basic editing, not animation, 3d or anything fancy. my old computer is so slow, taking several hours to render one hour of hdv in cineform set a high. any suggestions...as i am new at editing, even tho i have shot for years on hdv. finally can afford a computer in the $1200 range or less. bill

Good afternoon,


Hp has a desk to with an i7 processor and two docable bays for hot chnage of hard drives. It runs about the amount you want to spend. I recomended it to a friend instead of the Dell equivalent (which I have, an xps studio) and he has had no complaints yet.

Oh yea it was on sale at costco.


dale guthormsen

i checked costco and there is no hp available..only del and another manufacturer. any other suggestions?

is CostCo the only vendor you are able to use for the purchase? They will most likely only have lower end "consumer" systems and for your price point, you could build a fantastic i7 system.

Also, do you need everything associated with editing, or just a refresh on the actual tower? In other words, do you need a shuttle Pro (highly recommended), software plugins (VASST / Excalibur, etc), monitors, HDDs, etc etc.?

I agree, building a system is the only way to go. And it is much easier than you may think. This web site, MY SUPER PC How To Build A PC - A Computer Building Guide (http://www.mysuperpc.com/), is really all you need to learn it.

thanks..no i am not limited to costco..simply the former respondents reply. i hope to find either refurbished, etc anywhere. windows 7, intel chip i7? thanks again for all the suggestions. bill

Randall,
Sorry to hear you had such a negative experience. I must say it is the first I have ever heard of anyone experiencing this with a verified product key. Is it possible you got a hacked key by accident? I have heard of some people buying online (from an auction site) and getting a valid item but the retailer selling the key to multiple users. Glad you got it squared away though. In my case, i registered everything under me and have had no problem updating Win 7 Ultimate 64-bit.

Actually, that key was verified when it was originally installed but the original installation disc and the booklet containing the product key were later stolen from me (I hate burglary!). Then, when it came time for updates my installation came up as "p****ed."

... i hope to find either refurbished, etc anywhere. windows 7, intel chip i7? thanks again for all the suggestions
William, since you don't seem interested in building, have you considered contacting Tiger Direct and getting a system built by them? They are very good in quality and service and could help you design the system you need. There are many companies out there who build custom systems if you want to search them out just make sure they have a good reputation and a good service plan. The Geek Squad here (part of Best Buy in case readers are not familiar) will create custom systems too. You can also buy custom configurations direct from HP and Dell but I find their pricing and extra software problematic. Good luck and let us know which way you go and how it works out.

Actually, that key was verified when it was originally installed but the original installation disc and the booklet containing the product key were later stolen from me...

I would say that is the reason you had the issues, not the OEM. It would be helpful to mention that in the future. Thanks for the update.

Hi All --

Since this tread is several months old, I would like to know what are the latest/greatest PC specs as of now (I'm having a new machine built)? I've been all over the web taking in as much info as possible -- and I think my head is about to explode. Some questions:

Processor - i7 950? What's the fastest/best deal now?
mobo? x58? Intel?
RAM -- how much what type?
*Graphics card (CUDA, yes?) which one?
Power - 750W?
Ports? how many and which ones?

Or, if this latest info is compiled somewhere on the web (that I missed) -- please point the way.

Running Vegas 9 - 64 bit -- Win7
Editing - AVCHD, HDV

Thanks for the help!

I would never obsess about the CPU, especially now that Vegas 10 is going to include some sort of CUDA acceleration. I would wait and see what video card is required. The few paltry cores you'll get with expensive CPUs means little beside the hundreds of GPUs in that video card.

With Vegas processor is still of prime importance. Dollar for $ this chip seems to be the best value right now. Newegg.com - Intel Core i7-950 Bloomfield 3.06GHz 4 x 256KB L2 Cache 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor BX80601950 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=19-115-211&SortField=0&SummaryType=0&PageSize=10&SelectedRating=-1&VideoOnlyMark=False&IsFeedbackTab=true#scrollFullInfo)

I could be mistaken, but from what I've read gpu acceleration in Vegas 10 will not make any difference in AVCHD or M2t performance on the timeline. The above chip is the fastest for the money, and very overclockable.

James, it is tough for us to recommend what size hard drives you need, etc. You need to know this yourself...based on your workflow and needs. I have many terabytes of hard drives, but you very well may not need what I do.

Generally speaking the Samsung 1TB drives (NOT the green drives) are a tremendous value right now at under $70. They are fast and work well in RAID 0. The WD Caviar Blacks are a personal favorite of mine, but are not so hot for RAID. The Velociraptors are overated (I have 3 of them) IMO. I would suggest a Caviar Black for your OS and the Samsungs as scratch and storage drives. SSDs are all the rage, but I haven't studied them, so I cannot help there. Disc drives are on the way out, but when run in RAID 0 can still be extremely competitive. I built a workstation for a friend of mine using the Caviar Blacks and it is super fast. I think those drive actually out perform my Velociraptors. They shouldn't, but his system is exactly the same as mine except for the drives and it just feels more responisve. Same MOBO, ram, everything. I actually ranted against the Samsungs a while back, but was wrong. I have four of them and they have NEVER let me down.

My fastest drives are actually two WD 2TB drives run in RAID 0...they actually outperform my Velociraptors in some areas and use less processor. The 2TB drives are great, but personally I have to run them in RAID 0, otherwise the time to transfer large 100GB files files is too slow for my workflow and perference. They are so cheap you can't go wrong with them.

Thanks Joe, Jeff --

Actually didn't mean to include 'what size' hard drive -- rather, brands, etc. Agreed that size is pretty much dependent on what one does...

If anybody else cares to chime -- I'd be appreciative. I like investigating all of this, getting into the technical end of things, but in all honesty, it can suck me in to the point where I get very little creative work done! I just want a solid, well built machine (that I don't have to worry about) and that will allow me to do my thing -- which again, is being creative.

If I had a list I could hand somebody and say, "here, build this" -- my life would be perfect :-) I suppose that is exactly what I am doing here -- trying to compile that list!

Thanks again --

Asust P6t vs2 MOBO, 12 GB of ram, the above drives, processor, you're good to go. It doesn't have to be difficult. The P6t is a favorite of many, and the version 2 is a refined more basic version with the kinks of the original eliminated. It has esata, firewire, etc. Newer boards will have faster SATA (6gb) and the newer usb connectors, but the speeds on the faster usb 3 are underwhelming, from what I've heard.

It is a time consuming process to select components, that is simply the way it is, however.
Good luck.

There are nice boards by ASUS and other companies with newer features, but I can't recommend them as I haven't studied them.

Thanks Jeff -- exactly the stuff I'm looking for --

From what I've seen on the tech sites, the 2 TB WD blacks are regarded as the fastest hard drives in their class. They beat older Velociraptors. The newest Velociraptor is 600 GB and has SATA 6mb/s interface and is the fastest mechanical drive on the market, I believe. But, I haven't seen any MB with more than 2 SATA 6 interfaces, so that might limit your RAID options. I upgraded in July and got the i7 930 (best price/performance ratio at the time) it's a little slower than the 950 but not much. I also added 2 WD black 750s in RAID 0 and an Intensity Pro card. Now I can capture video straight from my XH-A1 in 8 bit uncompressed at 1980x1080. I shot about 2 hours continuously without a hitch at one event. I have a 5770 card, but may switch to a 460, they're supposed to be the sweet spot for cuda price/performance, last time I checked. I need to add at least one more 750 to the RAID for 10 bit recording, but so far the system handleseverything I throw at it.

Steve, Blacks are a favorite of mine, but are notoriously unreliable for RAID, and not supported by WD for RAID use. If you scroll down the thread below you will see it is hit or miss. Works for some, not for others. I'm glad yours work fine.

[Solved] Caviar Black 1tb Raid 0 - NAS-RAID-Technologies - Storage (http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/255916-32-caviar-black-raid)

All in all, there are better drives for RAID use. Access and read times are flat with the blacks in RAID 0, but burst speeds are very fast. So yes, the blacks "might" work, but Western Digital does not recommend them for RAID, for good reason. Western Digital recommends their enterprise class drives for use with RAID.

Just food for thought.

Oh, and it is possible the newest Caviar Blacks have been changed to be more suitable for RAID, but I haven't seen that.

I may take the plunge and build this myself:

How do these parts look? Any imporvments or am I missing anything? Not sure about the Mobo -- seems to be missing eSATA.

*******

Case: Antec Nine Hundred Two Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

HD: (3) HITACHI Deskstar H3IK10003272SP (0S02860) 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive

Power: CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified

RAM: CORSAIR XMS3 12GB (6 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory

MOBO: ASUS P6X58D Premium LGA 1366 Intel X58 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard

Processor: Intel Core i7-960 Bloomfield 3.2GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Desktop Processor

OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders - OEM

Video Card: PNY VCQFX1800-PCIE-PB Quadro FX 1800 768MB 192-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Workstation Video Card

BD Burner: Pioneer Black Blu-ray Disc/DVD/CD Writer SATA BDR-205BKS - OEM

Everything looks good to me except maybe the drives...Hitachi drives are among the lowest rated. Check the drives out on Newegg and spend some time...sort them out by rating rather than price and see what you find that way.

Why not the Caviar Blacks? They cost about the same and are among the highest rated drives out there. They are nearly enterprise quality at less than half the price of the high end ones. Unless you're running RAID, then the Samsungs (F3?) would be a better choice, but hey, overall your choices look good. Be sure to check the MOBO out on a site like newegg also, for issues. Read 20 or 30 reviews if you haven't done so, or even more.

Consider Gskill memory. You can save some money, and it is consistently one of the favorites out there. You can't go wrong with Corsair (I've used it) but the Gskill is a really great value.

Sounds like you are on track to build a really nice workstation, congrats!

Jeff --

Thanks for the heads up on the drives. I'll check out the WD drives you mentioned. I only included the Hitachi because the 'videoguys DIY 7' recommended it. Should have read this thread more closely...

Wondering if anyone has any hands on experience with the mobo listed above. It looks as if it's lacking eSATA -- which seems rather limiting (I have two eSATA 1TB drives). And it appears that there are less USB2 ports in leu of USB3.

Thanks again for the feedback --

Unless USB has drastically changed its core features, USB3.0 ports should still be able to connect to USB2.0 devices.

Thanks Jason --

Anyone: Overkill on the graphics card? It is CUDA -- which will come in handy with Vegas 10. Is there another one I should look at?

I may take the plunge and build this myself:

How do these parts look? Any imporvments or am I missing anything? Not sure about the Mobo -- seems to be missing eSATA.

*******

Case: Antec Nine Hundred Two Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

HD: (3) HITACHI Deskstar H3IK10003272SP (0S02860) 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive

Power: CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified

RAM: CORSAIR XMS3 12GB (6 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory

MOBO: ASUS P6X58D Premium LGA 1366 Intel X58 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard

Processor: Intel Core i7-960 Bloomfield 3.2GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Desktop Processor

OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders - OEM

Video Card: PNY VCQFX1800-PCIE-PB Quadro FX 1800 768MB 192-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Workstation Video Card

BD Burner: Pioneer Black Blu-ray Disc/DVD/CD Writer SATA BDR-205BKS - OEM

Everything looks good to me except maybe the drives...Hitachi drives are among the lowest rated. Check the drives out on Newegg and spend some time...sort them out by rating rather than price and see what you find that way.

Why not the Caviar Blacks? They cost about the same and are among the highest rated drives out there. They are nearly enterprise quality at less than half the price of the high end ones. Unless you're running RAID, then the Samsungs (F3?) would be a better choice, but hey, overall your choices look good. Be sure to check the MOBO out on a site like newegg also, for issues. Read 20 or 30 reviews if you haven't done so, or even more.

Consider Gskill memory. You can save some money, and it is consistently one of the favorites out there. You can't go wrong with Corsair (I've used it) but the Gskill is a really great value.

Sounds like you are on track to build a really nice workstation, congrats!

True, the Hitachis are the slowest of the 7200 rpm hard drives with 500GB platters in terms of sequential (physical) transfer speeds. But the WD Blacks have serious issues with RAID controllers: Newer revisions of the Blacks have TLER permanently disabled. This means that the drives will always spin down after 8 seconds of idle no matter what - and then, they take way too long to spin back up to speed. This will result in the RAID controller marking the Blacks in a RAID array as "failed" or "degraded" even though the drives are still good! That alone makes the WD Blacks unsuitable for use in a RAID array. So, if you intend to use the Blacks in a RAID array, you will have to purchase RE4 versions of those drives - at much higher prices than what the "consumer" versions of those drives cost.

If the permanently-disabled TLER isn't bad enough, most versions of the WD Blacks still in production continue to use the same, two-generation-old platter design that those drives had been introduced with. (For example, the 1TB Black in its SATA II version WD1001FALS continues to use three 334GB platters with a maximum sequential transfer speed of barely 110 MB/s - while in comparison, a newer-design Samsung F3 1TB HD103SJ that uses two 500GB platters can achieve nearly 150 MB/s on the outer tracks. In other words, the 1TB Black that does not use the SATA 6 Gbps interface is the slowest non-Green 1TB hard drive from any brand that's currently in production. As a result, the only drives in the WD Black line that are even competitive in sequential-speed performance with the hard drives with modern 500GB platters are the 1TB 6 Gbps WD1002FAEX, the 1.5TB WD1501FASS and the 2TB WD2001FASS.)

Third, there are three things that I would change on that build list:

1. The Antec Nine Hundred Two case is embarrassingly cramped in depth (front to rear). A regular ATX mobo such as the P6X58D fits with barely enough room to spare. This, in turn, limits the size of the graphics card that it can accommodate without undue bending of the PCI-e power cable. And because of this cramped depth, the internal SATA ports may get completely blocked by the hard drives themselves - and that some SATA plugs might not fit the tiny space between the case's drive cage support frame and the front edge of the motherboard where internal SATA ports are becoming increasingly common.

2. The Corsair 750TX power supply unit was good when it was first introduced. But since that time, there have been quite a few much-better-quality 750W PSUs introduced to the PC market, making the 750TX old and a bit outdated. It is due for a refresh sometime soon.

3. Don't trust the FX 1800 for GPU acceleration in most of the newer CUDA-optimized NLEs. This is because hardware-wise the FX 1800 is nothing more than a GeForce 9600 GS (which in turn is basically a GeForce 9600 GT with a 192-bit instead of 256-bit GDDR3 memory interface). As such, the FX 1800 has only 64 CUDA cores and slow memory while for comparison the GDDR5 version of the GeForce GT 240 has 96 CUDA cores and a memory bandwidth that's roughly equal to that of a 256-bit DDR3 bus (even though the GT 240's memory bus is only 128 bits wide). Plus, if you are going to be running Adobe Premiere Pro CS5, the program will be permanently fixed in the software-only mode due to it having only 749MB of available graphics RAM (remember, Windows itself eats up 19MB of the card's 768MB of VRAM).

Randall, if you read my previous posts it was pointed out repeatedly that the Blacks are not suitable for RAID. Otherwise the Samsungs are a better choice. They are fast and reliable. The Hitachi's are famously unreliable AND slow. I have never understood Videoguys recommendations for hard drives. They also recommend larger drives for OSs which I never understood. The only drive I've ever had actually die on me was a Hitachi.

If you don't run RAID, the Blacks are a superior drive. I have Velociraptors, and the WED Blacks go toe to toe with them. Truth be told, the Samsungs, WD Blacks, and other drives I have all run about the same. The WD is more consistent. I've benchtested all of my drives, and the Blacks are just more consistent across the board.

Randall, if you read my previous posts it was pointed out repeatedly that the Blacks are not suitable for RAID. Otherwise the Samsungs are a better choice. They are fast and reliable. The Hitachi's are famously unreliable AND slow. I have never understood Videoguys recommendations for hard drives. They also recommend larger drives for OSs which I never understood. The only drive I've ever had actually die on me was a Hitachi.

Fair enough for the first three sentences. However, I never understood the recommendation for small-capacity mechanical hard drives, for that matter: First off, these small mechanical hard drives are almost always of older designs to begin with, with relatively slow physical transfer speeds by current standards. Second, for any given amount of programs and files installed, the smaller hard drive will be at a much higher percentage of full. And any mechanical hard drive will start dropping severely in transfer speed at about 60 percent full. And that's not to mention that the fuller a mechanical hard drive is loaded with programs and data, the access speed will start slowing down as well.

Of course, if that smaller drive is an SSD, the above paragraph is not applicable.

In light of the first paragraph, a 40GB mechanical hard drive is too small nowadays for a video editing rig - and even a 74 to 80 GB hard drive is marginal. Hence, if you must use a mechanical hard drive as an OS drive, the higher percentage of free (available) space remaining after the OS and programs are installed, the better. (This means that if you do use a relatively smallish capacity mechanical hard drive for the OS and programs, don't load that drive with games and other miscellaneous junk.)

We've just updated our NLE systems recommendations page. I think those on this thread will find it useful.

Videoguys Blog - Videoguys' System Recommendations for Video Editing (Oct 2010 Update) (http://www.videoguys.com/Blog/E/Videoguys+System+Recommendations+for+Video+Editing+Oct+2010+Update/0xc3f27126e09cd4486332b4d703423cf3.aspx)

Gary

...The Hitachi's are famously unreliable AND slow. I have never understood Videoguys recommendations for hard drives. They also recommend larger drives for OSs which I never understood. The only drive I've ever had actually die on me was a Hitachi...

Jeff, I have had quite the opposite experience. The only drives I have never had fail are the Hitachi Deckstars. I have had many WD and Seagate drives terminate on me. For 7200rpm drives I buy the Hitachi Deckstars with 32 MB buffer or nothing at all in the 1TB or 2 TB variety.

As to the O/S drive issue, I recently built a system with a 320GB system drive and ended up at +90% full on this drive. Of course I have a lot of Apps on my system drive because I use my workstation as a workstation and not just for editing. Fortunately, I had to replace the motherboard not too long ago and I took advantage of that moment to re-purpose an older Deskstar 750GB drive as the O/S drive. (Currently it has 478GB free.) Between applications, plug-ins, O/S files and the few things that end up in my libraries, I fully agree with VG recommendations for a larger system drive.

Well, our experiences are different, for sure. However, I am now totally against the WD Caviar Blacks which I have touted for so long. I based my recommendation for those drives on my early models which were very nice. Unfortunately a system I built with 5 new ones has some very mysterious freezing issues which are drive related, as best as I can determine.

On the other hand, I ran SCSI Raid back in the 90s, and used Seagate Cheetahs exclusively, those were some awesome drives. As far as space, I install After Effects, Dreamweaver, Fireworks, Photoshop, Premier, Vegas, the MS Office suite with virtually everything they have, and never gone over maybe 60 GB. My 150 GB drives are certainly large enough for me! You are certainly running some huge programs!

Sorry to hear about your issues with the WD Cavier Blacks. I have had several bad experiences with WD drives both on internal and external drives and avoid them because of it. I run Vegas Pro 8, and 9, Premiere, Photoshop Extended, Dream Weaver, Acrobat Pro, In Design, Flash, Illustrator, Fireworks, (and all the shared components for CS4), many New Blue Plug-ins, Plural Eyes, Norton Suite, Cisco VPN, DVDA, Cinescore, Cyberlink Blu-ray suite, MS Office 2007 Full edition, and several apps from Epson for 2 different printers along with several other misc items. After looking a little closer, it appears that my User folder is the largest space hog (accounting for about 150 GB) which includes things like "my documents," "my music", and "my photos." So there is probably a good bit of that load I could lighten with more careful attention to where I store those items.

All told, I am running around 12.5 TB internal on this system with about 4.75 TB free all spread out over 10 drives. I probably archive too much and since I have 1 hot swap cage (3 drives) and 2 hot swap bays (1 drive each) I probably have a bit too much on-site redundancy and not enough off-site redundancy but that is probably a subject for a different thread...

I store nothing in my user folder. I personally don't use the "user folder", I have only programs on my drive. I like my OS drive to be lean and fast.

So yes, you "need" more space, but you also operate in a way that I wouldn't, using your OS drive as a storage drive. But the way we each use our equipment is an individual choice. I have habits to keep my drives fast that I've been doing since pre windows 98 (don't remember what was before then) and I'm just funny that way.

My storage folders are large also. I just would never consider keeping them on the OS drive. That's why I don't understand a video editor needing a TB drive for their OS, it doesn't make sense if 90% is going to be empty. Even my temp DVDA folders are on another drive. I assumed everyone else operates the way I do. I was wrong.

Now that you've explained the user folder and stuff, I realize many people probably use the Microsoft folder to store stuff. When I help friends with computers I always set them up to store things (photos, etc) on an external drive so that if they lose their OS their important files are safe. I personally store all things in two places, one internal and backed up on one external. Beyond that it's just wasted space. I still have things I've been carrying around since 1995.

I can lose my OS drive at anytime and I'll lose nothing except possibly bookmarks on my browser. and even those I backup from time to time.

...I personally don't use the "user folder", I have only programs on my drive.

Yes now that windows 7 is here I really should revamp the way I handle these items. The ability to remap the libraries to multiple locations and drives is a very nice feature and keeps them just as accessible as though they were in the documents or pictures folders. Client files I do keep outside the user area these are mostly pictures of family and stuff like that.

...My storage folders are large also. I just would never consider keeping them on the OS drive...Even my temp DVDA folders are on another drive...Now that you've explained the user folder and stuff, I realize many people probably use the Microsoft folder to store stuff. When I help friends with computers I always set them up to store things (photos, etc) on an external drive so that if they lose their OS their important files are safe. I personally store all things in two places, one internal and backed up on one external....

I have had terrible experience with external drives (usually have WD or Seagate HDD in them) and so that is why I moved to using internal racks (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?Sku=K450-1074) that allow me to swap out assets at whim and take drives off-site for safety very easily. I am considering a NAS for on-site back-up after reading a recent article in EventDV (http://www.eventdv.net/Articles/News/Feature/In-the-Studio-QNAP-TS-559-Pro-69711.htm) magazine.

I assemble my own externals...I buy cases like this: Newegg.com - Rosewill RX81-MP-SC- BLK 3.5" SATA to USB & 1394 a/b & eSATA External Enclosure (Black) (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182122) or this Newegg.com - Rosewill RX81-MP-SC- SLV 3.5" SATA to USB & 1394 a/b & eSATA External Enclosure (Silver) (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182123) and put what I want in them.

I have to save everything "by hand" so to speak by not using windows folders, but I've been doing it so long I'm used to it. I save everything twice (in two locations.)

I personally do not use automated backup, virus protection, or anything that can interfere with my workstation.

By the way those cases above are a bit "industrial", but they have so many connections and run so cool I don't care. Very functional.

My externals are as fast as my internals cause they are all esata. I also have the option if needed to run external raid with my particular card, so I lose nothing by using externals. I've looked into the storage things for multiple drives, etc., NAS etc but it is so complicated, and opens up a whole other host of potential issues. With 2tb drives that will run in those cases I can't see the need for an expensive NAS solution and the added software, but that is just me. My PC case has built in estata and I have an extra external esata card, so I can run like 8 external esata drives. I only run 4 externals now, but it is all I need.

I have to admit that I've always wanted to try a nice big NAS type case, it does sound cool. But every time I've looked into it I just gave up, seemed too much for me in several ways. If you do that Bryan, let us know how it works out, I'd be interested.

"With 2tb drives that will run in those cases . . ."

Really? Their description says "up to 1.5 TB"

OK, with 1.5 TB drives I still don't see the need for expensive and cumbersome network backup solutions. I do run a 2tb drive in a case that only supports 1tb and it works fine, but it is not the above case, it is an Accomodata. A rather cheap case that has proven to be pretty darn effective.