Hi there,

I like shooting handheld, but I do find it hard after a while, so I've started fantasizing about something that would help. On my wish-list... something that's:
- not too big and cumbersome
- not too expensive

I like the look of the Merlin, but it seems to me the EX-1 might be too heavy (I have an external mic, an RF mic, and a sony w.a. lens attached). Is the Merlin able to handle the weight of an EX-1? People on other threads (on other forums) have said the weight and heft of the EX-1 throws the Merlin off and it's unusable; others have said that if you add a metal plate here, or a weight there, it's fine.

I like the look of the SteadiCam Pilot too. Yes, it's verging on the cumbersome, from the looks of the pix of seen, but this may be the price you pay for nice smooth tracking shots. Again, from the pix I've seen, it looks like they've got a monitor and extra batteries attached... I'll live with my EX's lcd, so I don't think I need either of those add-ons.

Is anyone on this forum familiar with both of these items, or something else like them?

Thanks, Malcolm

Off the top of my head Merlin is about $800 US (but close to $2600 with vest and arm) whereas Pilot is around $3500 I believe.

You should add GlideCam 4000 about $400 or closer to $1000 with vest an arm.

There's also SteadyTracker Extreme for under $300.

I've heard Merlin is cutting it close as far as max weight but I understand some have gotten it to work with EX1 and Tiffen has a user recommended setup for it. SteadyTracker only has slightly higher max weight but is not a gimbal system. GlideCam 2000 is cutting it close on max weight too.

I'm looking at these too. I think posting here is more appropriate than in the stabilizer section since it certainly seems the EX1 falls into a "rare in between" weight class being in the 6.5 - 8 LB area depending on battery and other hook ups.

I'd thought I'd post links from DVInfo Sponsor B&H for these items for those also doing research.

Merlin
Steadicam | Merlin Camera Stabilizing System - with | MERLIN (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/521721-REG/Steadicam_MERLIN_Merlin_Camera_Stabilizing_System.html)

Merlin with vest & arm
Steadicam | Merlin Camera Stabilizing System - with Arm and Vest (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/493331-REG/Steadicam__Merlin_Camera_Stabilizing_System.html)

GlideCam 4000
Glidecam | 4000 PRO Camcorder Stabilizing System | GL4000 | B&H (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/193814-REG/Glidecam_GL4000_4000_PRO_Camcorder_Stabilizing.html)

GlideCam 4000 with vest & arm
Glidecam | Smooth Shooter Support System Kit | B&H Photo Video (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/540790-REG/Glidecam__Smooth_Shooter_Support_System.html)

SteadyTrackerExtreme
NetMarket | 210039 SteadyTracker Xtreme | 5046 | B&H Photo Video (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/568492-REG/NetMarket_5046_210039_SteadyTracker_Xtreme.html)

SteadiCam Pilot
Steadicam | Pilot-NCO Camera Stablization System | PILOT-NCO (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/580607-REG/Steadicam_PILOT_NCO_Pilot_NCO_Camera_Stablization_System.html)

I do wish there were more hardware trade shows. Stabilizers are almost like shoes. What's perfect for one person may be a horrible "fit" for another. How can one try by reading a spec sheet and any number of people are likely to have very divergent and contrary opinions.

Craig, thank you for all the links.
Like you I felt that this question fairly EX-1 specific. I had read some posts on the Stabilizer site you mentioned, though, which is why I hadn't asked about the Glidecam (people seemed to feel Glidecam hasn't kept up with the times; their arm technology in particular isn't as good as SteadiCam's).
By the way, someone on one of the other sites mentioned that Phil Bloom uses a Merlin, so I'm hoping he weighs in.
Malcolm

Merlin is listed as just over 5lb payload or 7.5lb with vest and arm.
Their "cookbook" doesn't show the EX1
Welcome to Tiffen - Steadicam Merlin Cookbook Settings (http://www.merlincookbook.com/)
BUT
when you add the user submitted settings (look at 2nd from last at bottom of the page)
Welcome to Tiffen - Steadicam Merlin Cookbook Settings (http://www.merlincookbook.com/user.php)
it does (with the smaller BP-30 battery).

BTW I was researching all this today so it's quite coincidental that you posted. I looked through the DVInfo stabilizer section and I just wasn't convinced I'd get enough answers specific to the EX1. All the more reason why specs aren't adequate. I wish there were some trade show where I could try this on and run around a hall.

GlideCam might be "clunky" but there just doesn't seem to be many options for a camera in this weight class. Of course when you get in to the Pilot price range there are more options but then you're dealing with expensive systems trying to handle a "light weight" camera.

My understanding is that Phil Bloom used the Merlin with vest and arm (but his blog seems to be down at the moment).

I've heard some people mention this
Steadicam made in Italy - Sanda100 (http://www.sanda100.com/)
but it's apparently not yet available (nor is their english translation).

(edit)
. . . and my email to them bounced.

Let's throw this into the mix since it can handle up to 8 lbs
VariZoom Flowpod at $460
VariZoom | Flowpod Stabilizer System | VZ-FP | B&H Photo Video (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/280013-REG/VariZoom_VZ_FP_Flowpod_Stabilizer_System.html)

Verizom with vest at about $1800
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/408116-REG/VariZoom__Navigator_System_w_Flowpod_Stblzr.html

Sorry to keep adding but I want to be thorough.

Anyone familiar with the Ind!Cam PILOT 214 ($2500)? It can handle a 2-14 lb payload.

indicam.com - Home (http://indicam.com/)

Terry Thompson produces a fine piece of gear. While it does not have all of the bells and whistles of the Steadicam Pilot the Indicam is made with quality and from everything I've heard, produces quality images with lots of practice of course. It's a nice way to get into a stabilizer for a good price.
Terry posts here quite often, look him up.

Don

Hi there,

I like shooting handheld, but I do find it hard after a while, so I've started fantasizing about something that would help. On my wish-list... something that's:
- not too big and cumbersome
- not too expensive

I like the look of the Merlin, but it seems to me the EX-1 might be too heavy (I have an external mic, an RF mic, and a sony w.a. lens attached). Is the Merlin able to handle the weight of an EX-1? People on other threads (on other forums) have said the weight and heft of the EX-1 throws the Merlin off and it's unusable; others have said that if you add a metal plate here, or a weight there, it's fine.

Is anyone on this forum familiar with both of these items, or something else like them?

Thanks, Malcolm

Malcolm, the way you phrase it, it sounds like you're looking for a device that would somehow alleviate the stress of working handheld, but most systems you're looking at are either just as stressfull or worse, as far as I know. And they are definitely not meant for long periods of shooting. They are designed to produce steadicam-type shots, that is their main objective. They are not made to facilitate handheld shooting.
I worked with the Z1 in combination with the Merlin and was not able to produce shots longer than give or take a minute. I will not even try putting my EX1 on the Merlin unless I'm looking to self-inflict... The vest and arm would work well, I guess, but it's 'big and cumbersome'.
I have a Varizoom LSP shoulderbrace that works very well with my Z1 and I expect it do the same with my EX1. It's foldable, flexible (many adjustment points for a custom fit), light and I used it for for hours on end with relative ease.

If you're looking at, quote: 'something that would help my handheld shooting because it's hard sometimes...' get a shoulderbrace, not a steadicam-type device.

Just tried out Merlin's user cookbook settings,works for me!of course no accesories and standard accu!But EX1 too hevy for longer steadicam shots.With vest and arm ,i think works quiet well.

Best regards

Raul

The Steadicam Pilot would be the perfect rig for the EX1. Obviously coming from a full-size rig I see this with different eyes, but I have a tough time thinking of the Pilot as "cumbersome" and is going to be the smoothest and best way to stabilize an EX1. With supplied weight kit you can easily customize even a bare EX1 to hit the "sweet spot" of the stabilizer.

As Jeroen brought up, however, this is assuming you actually want a camera stabilizer and not just something to relieve the awkward handheld configuration of the EX1. Malcolm, your initial post hints at a shoulder-mounted and counterweighted support rather than an actual stabilizer, as working with that neither feels like nor produces images like handheld. Stabilizers also have a lengthy learning curve; most people who try them for the first time feel that their handheld footage was actually easier to watch! With a lot of practice however, it's a whole different animal.

If you haven't already seen it, you might get some use out of my review of the pilot, right here at DVi ( http://www.dvinfo.net/articles/camsupport/steadicampilot1.php). I had a Canon A1 onboard which is not dissimilar from an EX1--you'd just have a few less weights on the top of the rig.

The next best rig would be a Merlin with vest and arm, although I think it would restrict the accessories that you might add to an EX1. I too would not recommend flying the EX1 on a Merlin in handheld mode except for shots that required that sort of mobility, or for operators who have Popeye-size forearms...!

As far as the other rigs and manufacturers mentioned--I would be more likely to dismiss many of them as "cumbersome" and in some instances less effective, than suggest that they are simply missing "bells and whistles". However there are some good budget choices in there as well.

Charles, nice article on the Pilot.

Recently a friend gave me a "Hollywood Lite" without instruction manual or DVD. Your article and the great video helped answer many of my questions.

I appreciate training videos with a sense of humor...

With my typical clients/shoots a vest may not be practical due to combination of budget and/or time. I'd certainly like the vest option if the client/budget called for it though.

Here's my own dilemma based on the above:

Merlin many not handle EX1 without vest but don't know for sure. Raul have you tried sled only? Is it practical for short shots (walking for 5 minutes for example)?
GlideCam 4000 would be give me both sled only and vest option as needed.
SteadyTrackerExtreme seems to be a low budget sled only solution but I have no idea if it's at all practical for EX1.
Flowpod supposedly can handle 8 lbs and has a vest option.
Sanda100 - seems to be MIA but looks like that would present a sled only option
IndieCam - doesn't have specs for sled only by the kit looks very much like Glidecam 4000

I wish Tiffen had something like a "Merlin Pro" between Merlin and Pilot. What I'd really like to see is a sled only option in an 8-10 lbs camera range and does seem that Glidecam 4000 is the most flexible option. I've used Glidecam 2000 both sled and vest and found it very "clunky" to set up (and my be related to Malcolm's comments about the arm technology too when I used it with the vest). I wish I could test SteadyTrackerExtreme since it seems like a cheap "throwaway" option when I need to do such a shot in hurry (which is often my situation with my clients). Flowpod might work.

Sorry about thinking out loud. So skipping the vest has anybody tried the above sled only options?

8 to 10 lbs is way too heavy for a handheld stabilizer, it's just not practical. Even with a reasonable weight on a handheld, even a 5 minute walking shot would not be "short" by most people's standards, that is actually quite a long shot at that point in terms of fatigue.

The upper limit of the Merlin's weight capacity with metal gimbal is really all that is practical for handheld stabilizer work, and that only for short bursts.

I can vouch that the Pilot/EX1 combo is excellent.

Trying to run the EX1 with a handheld rig is going to be very tough. I would avoid that if at all possible.

Thanks for that Charles. Maybe I'm overestimating the weight of the camera though.

I just checked the manual and it says camera, lens hood, eye cup, BP-U30 Battery, one SxS card is 6lb3oz (or 2.8kg).
Add Sennheiser G2 receiver 5.6oz (158g)
Add Sony WA Lens 10.6oz (300g)
Add Sony 673 Shotgun 4.8oz (135g)

I threw the other stuff in because Malcolm mentions them. I think that's about 7lb8oz. So it's closer to 7.5lb then 10lb.

I may be making misjudgment based on using a Sony PD-170 with Glidecam 2000 though. Alas that's why I wish I could try some things out.

I'm looking for something myself. A shoulder mount system might serve me better though.
This one looks good, and Phil Bloom gives it a thumbs up. Might work for you.

Check out the demo video too.

Creative Video CVP SM1 Shoulder mount camcorder support bracket system - Ideal for most handheld DV / HDV camcorders (http://www.creativevideo.co.uk/public/view_item_cat.php?catalogue_number=cvp_shoulder_mount-1)

FWIW.... I fly an EX1 with 2 g2 receivers and a LP-micro on a pilot all the time.

Rarely even turn on the micro, but it's there as an obie just in case.

All works fabulously and I have no complaints..... been known to wear the whole rig for over 5 hours at a time. I've even run down cobblestone alleys with it Don Juan style.

I did start out with a Z1 on a merlin.... then a Z1 on a merlin with vest/arm..... but the pilot is much more stable than the merlin...

BTW Glidecam is about to update their product line. I noticed a new "HD" after the sled with something like "accepting orders" on B&H site. The Glidecam site doesn't mention this so I contacted them. Available mid to late December 1000HD, 2000HD, 4000HD. They confirmed it and even sent me a screen shot of the 2000HD. They didn't mention updates to vests/arms but I didn't ask.

Notice the difference in the build, particularly where the weights would be.

As Jeroen brought up/ this is assuming you actually want a camera stabilizer and not just something to relieve the awkward handheld configuration of the EX1. Malcolm, your initial post hints at a shoulder-mounted and counterweighted support rather than an actual stabilizer, as working with that neither feels like nor produces images like handheld

Many thanks to all of you for your advice (sorry to be responding so late; I've been visiting my parents, couldn't connect to the internet). Jeroen and Charles - - you raise very good points, and you've made me consider and reconsider what I'm looking for. I do shoot a lot of handheld, as I mentioned, and when I do, I'm always moving the camera—smooth pans, moving in and out, up and down... just a little, mind you, but enough to make the shot more interesting (in my opinion). I've been doing this kind of handheld stuff for a long interview that I do once a month. The interview is an hour, non-stop, and I've noticed the quality of my 'moves' deteriorates by the end. That's why I was wondering about something that would help.
So I'm still wondering—am I looking for a Merlin+vest combo, or a Pilot?
You have me wondering about your last comment (above), Charles. If I were, in fact, to shoot this interview with a stabilizer, would it look like a much more professional version of what I've been doing, or would it look odd?
Thanks all,
Malcolm

Hey!For clarity..It's possible to balance EX1 with merlin(of course EX1 without any additional accessories and standard battery.But sure its too hevy..anyway if u need to to some preplanned steadicam shots,good to know that U can do it.Longer work - forget it!
EX1 settings for Merlin available at merlincookbook user settings.


Kind Regards

Raul

Hey!For clarity..It's possible to balance EX1 with merlin(of course EX1 without any additional accessories and standard battery.But sure its too hevy

Paul, I appreciate the clarification, but would like a little more. It's probably just a minor language thing - - "too heavy" would mean, to me, that it doesn't work. I think you're saying the EX-1 is heavy, but it's still workable on the Merlin... but only for short periods of time. Have you used this set-up? If so, how long can you comfortably shoot with the EX-1/Merlin combination? Also, if you have used the Merlin, have you done so with the vest support?
Thanks, Malcolm

Hi Malcolm.

For shooting an hour long interview, you will absolutely want a body-mounted stabilizer. Either the Merlin or the Pilot will be light enough to shoot for that long without being too much of a burden, once you get used to it, but it won't look like handheld, for better or worse. For what you are describing, I almost wonder if a small dolly-mounted jib would be the most appropriate, in that you can maintain the type of subtle movement through space you are describing without the need to wear the rig. Until you get used to a stabilizer, there will be a lot of extra erratic motion that may be distracting to the results, different in look but perhaps similar in effect to what happens when you get tired and your handheld starts to suffer. A jib should eliminate that. Just a thought...

Hi Malcolm,

I have an EX1 as well as a Glidecam handheld stabilizer. I only use the handheld unit with the smaller cameras I have and the EX1 is used on the Pilot. The EX1 is heavy enough that its not practical to handhold it on the Glidecam or any other handheld stabilizer for more than about 3-5 minutes. I just can't do it any longer with any quality at all. With the Pilot I can run the camera for a very long time and keep the camera under good control. But as Charles and others have said it will have a much different look than a handheld camera (even a handheld stabilizer will have a much different look). This may not be he look you are after in an interview.

In case this isn't over-re-stating what everyone else has said - a stabilizer isn't a tripod. It isn't a replacement for a tripod or even a hand held operator. They are very hard to hold still. They work best when you have somewhere to go and something to do with the camera. The most difficult thing I've worked to get proficient at is being still. It is ridiculously hard to do for more than a few seconds.

Based on what I've read here in this thread you will be better served with a really good shoulder mount for the EX1. Among the benefits are - lower cost than a stabilizer and body harness, much less tiring than hand held, shorter learning curve, and the look of the shots will be more compatible with what you've already shot.

Chris Medico

Hi Malcolm!

I think U got it right!As Earlier guys talks - EX1 works with the Merlin but U can't use it for long period.As i owned merlin before,then i just tryed out it - possible to stabilize EX1 on merlin - sure.Maybe You can do few shots if needed..but longer period vest and arm is a must.I think too that pilot is the best combination with EX1.So if U dont have steadicam right now and want some for u ex ,then look for pilot.If u have merlin already look for arm and vest for merlin.

Best regards

Raul

In case this isn't over-re-stating what everyone else has said - a stabilizer isn't a tripod. It isn't a replacement for a tripod or even a hand held operator. They are very hard to hold still.
I have taken a lot of looong footage of nature with EX1 on a rigid tripod - exploring the possibilities of such a tecnique - but now exploring further with sloow panning and possibly moving the camera on a dolly or maybe a stabilizer like Merlin or Pilot.

I saw a demo video of Pilot or Flyer with the camera at the bottom, up-side-down. Have you tried that? I´m thinking of close-to-ground shots showing the perspective of mouse or something, walking very, very slowly. I want to get the 3D-impression one gets with a dolly but not with panning with a tripod. You might check Pictures-Come-Alive! - Plants 4 (http://lentovision.com/vaxter4_e.htm) - a 3D-effect might make even a scene with nothing moving quite interesting.

I do have a Glidecam 4000 for my EX1.
First of all, it's way too heavy to be handeled more than few seconds.
But the most important is that it sooooo difficult to balance.
Having the right weight at the bottom is not that easy. Then, balancing the camera is nearly impossible. You have to unlock the plates and move them, trying to stay parallel, then lock them... Really difficult. And I spent a lot of time trying.
I don't have the name, but I would really recommend something better for the EX1 or any camera that weight, moreover if you're using a 35mm converter + rigs.
Try to find something where you can balance the plates with rotating knobs. It will be much simpler.

Thanks for that info Sebastien.

Basically it seems that the EX1 is just at the weight point that hand held stabilizers are near useless.

I did run into this in my searches. They claim it holds up to 22lbs and it's only $1150.
It certainly looks like they made an attempt at rotating knobs.
The CineCity*::*Flycam Stabilization systems*::*Flycam Stablization Steadicam system*::*Magic Arm & vest with Flycam 6000 stabilizer steadycam Steadicam for DV HDV upto 22LBS camera Weight (http://www.thecinecity.com/tcc/product.php?productid=41&cat=0&page=1)

They claim one can handle up to 14lbs ($349) and a heavy duty version up to 24lbs ($375).
It's the oddest approach I've ever seen for a stabilizer. It looks like it would be a bit bouncy to me. Looks like if you ran fast it could fly over your shoulder and kill the person behind you.
The Indy Steadycam (http://www.theindysteadycam.com/index.htm)

I wonder what shipping to North America would cost? Several hundred I'd assume.

I have taken a lot of looong footage of nature with EX1 on a rigid tripod - exploring the possibilities of such a tecnique - but now exploring further with sloow panning and possibly moving the camera on a dolly or maybe a stabilizer like Merlin or Pilot.

I saw a demo video of Pilot or Flyer with the camera at the bottom, up-side-down. Have you tried that? I´m thinking of close-to-ground shots showing the perspective of mouse or something, walking very, very slowly. I want to get the 3D-impression one gets with a dolly but not with panning with a tripod. You might check Pictures-Come-Alive! - Plants 4 (http://lentovision.com/vaxter4_e.htm) - a 3D-effect might make even a scene with nothing moving quite interesting.

I don't want to push this OT but do a search for posts using the telescope motorized heads for video work. This looks like so much fun to program the moves into the thing and see what you get.

I use the EX-1 on a pilot. I even add all the wheights that came with it.
Then the arm is close to it´s max payload, but works perfectly.
I have an EX-3 coming tomorrow, but I don´t think the pilot can handle it.
(The EX-1 is my friends(

As far as the Indicam goes, I can attest to some good and, well, less-optimal things about the experience. First off, Terry is a top-notch guy who takes all of your questions himself and will spend as much time as you need talking to you about the equipment before -- and after -- you buy. Secondly, the arm and balance are very nice -- they fall short of Steadicam quality IMHO, but they do help you produce smooth shots on an EX1.

The problem for me was the backpack vest -- I couldn't make it comfortable no matter how I adjusted it. Terry insisted it was feasible to find a fit, but I couldn't. So I eventually returned my Indicam.

But, that right there is another huge positive for it -- Terry took my return and gave me a refund. That's pretty awesome for an expensive piece of gear.

Lots of folks seem to like the Indicam, so I would take a look at it. The vest didn't work for me, but the customer service can't be beat.

The Indy Steadycam looks interesting, and the price is certainly right. Not exactly Steadicam results yet not a hand-held look either. Fully refundable within 30 days, which is the only way to go if you've no other way to try it out. I wonder how well it really works.

I have attempted the EX1 with the merlin, Indicam Pilot (sold it) and Steadicam Pilot. I would agree that the steadicam Pilot is the best amongst all for the job even with extended batteries.

The Indicam Pilot is very good as well. As Marc remarked, I couldnt fit the backpack very well (indicam now has a vest option) so I sold it eventually. I'm not sure if the vest is better now but for the price and superb customer service from Terry, I would say it great for folks who are just starting out, more so that they have a 30day return policy for the lucky folks in the US.

The Merlin does have problems handling the EX1. I cant seem to balance it properly even with extra weights. I think the accessories plate is required to make it work.

I'm not sure of forum on mentioning publications but EventDV December issue has an article on the Indicam Pilot. He explains that although the Indicam and Glidecam sleds look similar, there are significant differences to the Indicam's advantage. There's quite a bit of detail on the function of the device (ability to adjust).

He also comes to the conclusion that if you have the budget the Steadicam Pilot is best with Indicam Pilot being the affordable alternative. He also mentions Glidecam Smooth Shooter and Glidecam X-10 which, for various reasons, he didn't find competitive.