Hello players:

First, an announcement. I'm cancelling the December challenge round. Reason: I was sick for two weeks in November and am terribly behind on everything and need room to catch up. We will resume in January.

Second: I'm giving some thought to re-tooling UWOL for next year. Yes, you're right, I can't just seem to leave things alone.

My thought is on having 2 separate competitions that run side-by-side.

The regular short-form contest will go on, business as usual. The major change is that we will be offering it 4x/year instead of 6x/year.

We are also thinking of offering a separate long-form contest which would run alongside the regular contest. This would be your chance to try your hand at a sustained narrative or experimental piece, to produce something for a film festival, with a minimum length of 20 minutes (no maxiumum).

You would have one year to sign-up and complete your film. You would post 5 - minute segments 4x/year, posting a feedback thread at the same time that the regular players post, requesting feedback for a problem or set of problems that you may be trying to solve. There would be no theme announced -- the topic would be your choice, but it would have to fit the spirit of UWOL.

There will be separate judging and a "best-in-show" winner for the long-form contest. But completing, as always, would certainly be its own huge reward. And your final product, after all the great feedback from this community, would be very much better than if you tried to take on something like this alone.

I would like to see a show of hands from people who would be interested in participating in a long-form contest, such as this, to gauge interest and see if it is worth pursuing. We'll do it, or not, based on interest, and I would want a minumum of 5 participants to make it fly.

Whether or not we do the long-form contest, I'm still scaling the short-form contest back to 4x/year. One has no bearing on the other.

Let me know what you all think.

I love it...I need the focus...I need the inspiration...I want the feedback...

Both hands up!

Hi, definatley up for the long format - actually have felt a little frustrated in the three minutes a couple of times this year, this would certainly be the answer.....

Cheers!

Rob

You pushing hard Meryem !!!

But I am ready for a long term,may bee this is the right steep to take.
Going in to the pro-term.


Jumping into deep-wather!!!??


VJV.

________________

well, glad to see you boys getting ready to ride the long-form train...

just to be clear, this thread is a discussion thread...a separate, actual sign-up thread will appear in January, and i will probably let it stay open for 2 or 3 weeks, while folks have time to think it over - it's a bigger commitment and will probably take a bit more consideration. once you have signed up officially, you can get started right away, however.

I'm all for a long form version.
I'll try to enter the short ones too. :)

Well, we just need one more and it'll fly. :)

one other comment - with only 4 regular short-form Challenges, there won't be any hard themes, only the "little vacation" variety....the long-form Challenge will be the hard theme substitute....

4 masochists ready to apply, only one more chirping in, and this thing could be a go, nice!

Meryem... the long one sounds good... I will probably try this one out. I’m thinking about one issue, the language… I guess that up to the player what language he/she would choose… but to get feedback on VO it’s only one way.
I’m been thinking about to coproduce a UWOL film with some other player (like Kevin and Bob) but expand it to mix different countries in one film, maybe this would work in the long competition. Just see if any one would like to make something together :)

Markus

Well, that's five in less than five hours and there's still plenty of time before the signup window opens. Whooo Hoooo!

I've thought about the language thing, too, Markus -- I think providing a Word doc of some sort with a transcript would help, just to help the players grasp the story...but as long as they can follow the action, then certainly all other aspects, like lighting, composition, cinematography, audio quality, etc...can be all worked on pretty easily. I don't think that there is a need for full on subtitling - just an uploaded Word doc should cover it.

But I want people to work in their native languages. Our world, your vision.

I really think this is an excellent step forward for UWOl because of the opportunity to work toward a professional outcome that can be entered in film festivals.

let me see if I have this straight. There would be an announcement for a "long form" contest and those of us that sign on would have dates with which to send in 5 minute clips of the product (kina like homework assignments). People would comment with helpful criticism and we would take the criticism and make adjustments accordingly. The last date we would showcase the long version of our film. One film might win "best of show".

What I love about this concept is that we would have a lot more time to work on the film which hopefully would help in producing more pro like results.

A couple of questions

1. It seems harder (at least to me) to get a good quality compression for a longer film...would we have more space to showcase the final product?

2. Would we have a chance to share our story/concept idea to the community so that we can refine that part as well? Is that even a good idea?

3. Can we get started very, very soon?

Jeff

I really think this is an excellent step forward for UWOl because of the opportunity to work toward a professional outcome that can be entered in film festivals.

let me see if I have this straight. There would be an announcement for a "long form" contest and those of us that sign on would have dates with which to send in 5 minute clips of the product (kina like homework assignments). People would comment with helpful criticism and we would take the criticism and make adjustments accordingly. The last date we would showcase the long version of our film. One film might win "best of show".

What I love about this concept is that we would have a lot more time to work on the film which hopefully would help in producing more pro like results.

A couple of questions

1. It seems harder (at least to me) to get a good quality compression for a longer film...would we have more space to showcase the final product?

2. Would we have a chance to share our story/concept idea to the community so that we can refine that part as well? Is that even a good idea?

3. Can we get started very, very soon?

Jeff

yes, you would post 5-minute (or longer) clips right alongside the regular UWOL contest...your feedback thread would look like this UWOL LONG-FORM "My Inspired Movie" by Jeff Hendricks...

...and you would get and give feedback from/to the other players, playing alongside in the rest of the UWOL community - once again, you would be in the grist mill, learning not only from what you make, but from the feedback process as well.

Why UWOL has turned out so many great filmmakers in such a short time, in my opinion, is a function of the whole process, not just making films, but watching what others do and being in a like-minded community, commenting on each others' stuff. In my ideal world, long-form and short-form complement each other and the two combined give everyone Challenges that are appropriate to their needs. It is important to me that these two work together, at the same time, because it plays to the strength of keeping the "all in this together" community spirit.

(High School Musical, anyone?)

Let me throw another scenario out there. In theory, you could post an entire 20-minute film in your first feedback thread and spend the next 8 months massaging it. How you use your 4 feedback opportunities will be flexible. At the end, UWOL will archive your final product, but not your drafts. But while it is in progress, we will keep copies of your draft "live" for feedback.

To answer your specific questions:

1. good question - there will have to be some allowances for compression and size - Let me think about that, and I'll roundtable it with Kevin and Mat, or else throw out your thoughts.

2. I would say that you will have to share your concept/story with the community - if the open process disturbs you or you think that your idea is so good that someone would steal it, then you probably should not execute it in this context...I want to help you improve at this, not give you cause for anxiety....maybe do your second-best idea as a practice round for your best idea, which you will then have the skills and confidence to execute on your own.

3. I'm open to varying definitions of "soon" - the goal would be to have the short-form and long-form contests both post their projects by the last week in January/first week of February. This does mean that long-form would need a bit of a running start. I'll post the sign-up in the 2nd week of December, and once you sign-up, you can start. This will give early adopters a week or two of advantage, but since this is a marathon, not a sprint, I don't think it will much matter.

So, is it _A_ five minute clip of five one minute clips? :)
I just ask because I seldom have stuff strewn together until late in the game.
I doubt I could come up with a five minute sequence in January. I could certainly talk about my concept and show five minutes worth of footage and get feedback on how to craft it etc.

I already have my idea. I've been wanting to work on it for a while.
Just need to figure out what approach I want to take with it.
I guess I need to make sure it's something that can sustain an audience for 20 minutes or more.
Certainly harder than it sounds.

Looking forward to this one!

I'm certainly interested in both.

Good point Kevin,

will the clip have to be 5 minutes or is that the max time limit...like could we post something shorter or post various clips in a sequence?

or

will the 5 minute segments need to stand on their own as mini film within the bigger picture?

I too have something that I have been wanting to do...this will be the PERFECT venue.

I am super excited about this!

Meryem is a genius!

Jeff

Let me throw another scenario out there. In theory, you could post an entire 20-minute film in your first feedback thread and spend the next 8 months massaging it. How you use your 4 feedback opportunities will be flexible. At the end, UWOL will archive your final product, but not your drafts. But while it is in progress, we will keep copies of your draft "live" for feedback.
.

well Jeff if you would read instead of skim you might not ask such dumb questions.

I love the idea...It feels like forever since I have last been here

I will definitely keep doing the regular "short uwol" videos.
But the concept of the Long form is absolutely interesting too. It is a great way to push your own skills long steps forward.

I love the idea of a long form UWOL project for several reasons. But the one that appeals to me the most if getting feedback along the way.
We have such a diverse group of filmmakers from all over the world that I think it's kind of our secret weapon to make our films better.

I really look forward to putting my idea out there and saying this is my vision, this is some of the stuff I've shot, what do you think?

Oftentimes you're so close to a project it's hard to be able to step back and take a look at it with fresh eyes.

Can't wait for the starting gate to drop on this one! :)

I’m been thinking about to coproduce a UWOL film with some other player (like Kevin and Bob) but expand it to mix different countries in one film, maybe this would work in the long competition. Just see if any one would like to make something together :)

Markus
Hei Markus, making an uwol film together, either the regular short, or the long form, could have been real fun.

Hi guys.

Of course I think the idea of the longer format piece is a great one. For those that choose to take up the challenge it will also show just how much 'story is king' and with it be a valuable education in longer format writing and producing.

I have to raise a concern about both film length and timescales. Twenty minutes minimun really is a much longer format but more so a year gives a lot of potential for 'drop out'. I know the critique phases should keep things bound together. But a year is a long time to maintain momentum within a competition format and it would be quite deflating to both take part and run things to see 10-15 starters fall away to just a couple of finishers.

Now feel free to tell me if I'm just being pessimistic here but something is telling me a 6 month timescale and a 10 minute minimum might be more realistic !!??

Mat,

I can see your point about going out a year vs. six months. It's going to take some dedicated filmmakers to work on it for that period of time.

I still like the year 20 minutes plus though. I think the long form is set up to be something more for people who want to do something more than just hobby shoot.
So the original short form would still work for those that just want to have fun but the long form would be something for those that want to take it to the next level.

What's a half hour shoe on the tube now about 24 minutes?

I think it's going to be a huge challenge for me to sustain people's interest for twenty minutes. But I figure with opportunities to get feedback and suggestions I can do it.

But, I'll certainly go along with what everyone else wants to do.

I still like the 1 year and 20 minutes because like Meryem said you can feel free to turn in your 20 minute film on the first date and then make fixes from there based on feedback. So you don't have to take an entire year to complete a film you can finish in 1 month or 6 months or 12 months depending on what you are able to accomplish.

also

If it doesn’t work out right we can change the timeline next year...after all it's only 365.25 days.

Jeff

Hei Markus, making an uwol film together, either the regular short, or the long form, could have been real fun.

Sounds good Trond... We can begin with a short one...

How about collaborations? It is tough to make a film "by yourself". The film I worked on was 12 people for 8 weeks to produce 80 minutes, so that means 3 people for two weeks to get to 20 minutes? Plus 13 weeks of pre-production and 13 weeks of post.

Ya, I would be game.

Jim

I think it's a great idea, running both. I'm not sure I have the stamina for 12 months though, I think I would find myself getting bored with something that ran for that long, especially if it was a more rigid theme that someone else had decided upon.

Seeing as we are having fewer "short" contests, what about making them four weeks rather than three? Or am I just being selfish? I can't be the only person who only has weekends free and faces the gamble of unpredictable weather. Not a big issue, just a "would be nice"!

Meryem: I think this will be excellent, and I support 4 short one and 1 long one! And if the short one could be extended in time, e.g 4 (5?) weeks of production, would fit better for me.

Per has returned! Good to see you, my friend....

I'm glad to see a positive response to this idea. So many of you are becoming so good at the short film, I think this will be a good challenge.

Here's a few thoughts.

1) Yes to collaborations - you may even sign up openly as a team if you like, fine by me - longer films tend, by nature, to be collaborative to some degree

2) You are not bound by the 1 year/20 minute concept - 20 minutes is a minimum, but your mileage may vary -

anywhere between 22 - 24 minutes is the common producer's specs for a TV broadcast. it depends on the broadcaster. 54 - 56 minutes is common for hour-long programming.

also, you have one year to complete it, but you can certainly wind it up sooner - submit it to a festival or whatever...

4) regarding the time frame of the short-form contest - given that these are fewer and further between, i'm happy to extend it to a full month (4 weeks), unless anyone has any strenuous objections to that change? it will actually make all the planning easier....i think 3 weeks puts the right amount of pressure on everyone, but if having few rounds means wanting to spend more time shooting and crafting your short films, i'm open to it.

5) Another scenario to consider for the long-form - You may not even shoot a thing for the first round, you may spend your first feedback round scripting and researching and getting feedback on your ideas and concept before you even get out there -- you may even storyboard a bit, instead of running around randomly chasing images. You may have to spend time lining up interviews, etc. There will probably be a good deal more pre-production than you are accustomed to...you don't have to use your feedback thread just to post footage...I expect that most of you will put up some footage, because we all like shooting, but you can upload other ideas, scripts, projects outlines, etc., and we will have an ongoing conversation, similar to "tales of wonder and woe" where you can share your successes and failures and help each other out with how to work out the problems which you encounter.

Why not have a 1-2 mouth signup and script writing + feedback (for those who want) and then 10 mouth with 4 feedback threads to finish the film. I would love to discuses and work on my script first and then start the contest. The biggest and best thing with UWOL is the enormous skill tat we all got together. If anyone doesn’t want to share each idea it’s up to them. I would love to bounce ideas before… ‘cause that’s my weakest point.

Markus

5) Another scenario to consider for the long-form - You may not even shoot a thing for the first round, you may spend your first feedback round scripting and researching and getting feedback on your ideas and concept before you even get out there -- you may even storyboard a bit, instead of running around randomly chasing images. You may have to spend time lining up interviews, etc. There will probably be a good deal more pre-production than you are accustomed to...you don't have to use your feedback thread just to post footage...I expect that most of you will put up some footage, because we all like shooting, but you can upload other ideas, scripts, projects outlines, etc., and we will have an ongoing conversation, similar to "tales of wonder and woe" where you can share your successes and failures and help each other out with how to work out the problems which you encounter.

what a wonderful learning experience this will be too...to be able to see how other people organize and prepare.

it will be beneficial to me anyway because I always struggle with that part of filmmaking.

I like the sound of this challenge very much...excellent idea!

If things go well, I hope to have a new camera in February, so the timing is perfect.

The only thing I will miss, due to being open about our ideas, is the "surprise factor" we get with the shorts.

So count on me signing up.

That is, if you don't mind Meryem... ;)


Bob

Norway, Rocky Mountains, zombie movie in Yellowstone .... Yep I'm in.

Call me

Jim

I'm not sure how valid my input for this topic will be as I cant se myself being able to get involved much but I thought I should say that I would be all for taking part in a long film if I were able to.

Making 20 min-ish films for entry to festivals seems to be the logical next step for many people involved with UWOL. I'm itching to see what some of the Norwegians come up with on this one. I wouldnt be suprised if the odd victory speach needed preparing.

perhaps in a few years I'll get a chance to join in.

I'm sort of in the same boat, Peter.

The way I see it, a lot of people have been in UWOL since the beginning and are ready for a bigger challenge. Relative newcomers like myself find the prospect of a 20 minute film way top daunting right now, and need to spend longer cutting our teeth on the shorter films for the time being.

I won't be ready for a big film come January, but maybe the next year.

That is, if you don't mind Meryem... ;)



So you're saying that you're up for something that is hard and involves working with other humans? Great!

Glad to hear you chiming in, Peter, even if you can't play. We are always happy to hear from our UWOL gang, even when they can't play. And I'm sure the participants are always happy for any feedback, if you're so inclined. There are many ways to play, without signing up.

Mike, if I were you, I'd avoid phrases like "I'm sort of in the same boat as you, Peter" -- you might want to think twice before you get in a boat with that guy..."Another cup of tea, Mr. Joslin?" heh. ha. heheheh.

http://www.uwolchallenge.com/challenge9/31_UC9_howhardcanitbe.mov

So you're saying that you're up for something that is hard and involves working with other humans? Great!

As long as I don't have to work with them face to face... ;)

Mike, if I were you, I'd avoid phrases like "I'm sort of in the same boat as you, Peter" -- you might want to think twice before you get in a boat with that guy..."Another cup of tea, Mr. Joslin?" heh. ha. heheheh.

http://www.uwolchallenge.com/challenge9/31_UC9_howhardcanitbe.mov

Blimey, I'd forogotten about that one. Was that a boat? I thought it was a bathtub!!

meryem,

I think this is a grand idea. I will support it for certain. I evenhave a couple of great ideas to pursue. It is also great that you can select a topic within the uwol theme that you are fired up about!!!

there has been great stuff in the last two years but I suspect this will bring out even better work across the board!!!

Also: I think having Uwol shorts 4 times a year is a good idea.


I was hoping to not have to film in January this year!!!! the -25 to -40 stuff is just plain raw!!! And what to film at that time is always a difficult call.


Meryem, my entusiasm was waining a bit to be sure after 2 years, but this has my motor revving up for the challenge!!!




dale

Meryem,


The 1 year time frame is perfect, it allows one to do things that change throughout the year. for those that do not require it it gives a lot more latitude when you shoot, great for shooting outside!!!

great idea meryem, like it very much
don't know if i got time because i am a "schoolboy" - how i like that word :)
i do have a plan though for a 20 min story if it so happens i'll join in again :)

geir inge

Well, that seals it for me. If we can suck Geir back into UWOL just by throwing a long-form party, then I'm sold! When do we start??

Just kidding. I'm still pondering, so keep the suggestions coming.

Blimey, I'd forogotten about that one. Was that a boat? I thought it was a bathtub!!

It was originally a boat....I'm not sure exactly what you could describe it as now....kindling perhaps.

I was hoping to get involved in this Decembers contest (Nick and I had a plan for suitably high tempo and exciting international whirlwind piece to celebrate the end of 2008) but it will have to wait for another time.
Till then I welcome the opportunity to play without playing.

Hi all,

Well done Meryem, I like the changes. Although I have been around since the start of the the UWOL forum, I have been unable to enter the competition because of the limited editing time I have for 9 months of the year. With the new 4 and one long comp plus a small lifestyle change for myself I will now have a chance to enter.

Mick

M & PP Wildlife Video & Travel - Homepage (http://www.mppvideos.co.uk)

I will definitely keep up with the short films and am very interested in the longer format. I feel it's quite a big step up and it will be much more of a challenge. But, hey that's what it's all about.

Meryem, I like the idea of 4 short and one long. Like Per I would also like to see the time lenthened. I travel a lot so sometimes getting time home to video and edit can be touch and go. Bob

Yes, I would like to see the short ones extended to 4 weeks since it's only 4/year.
Maybe that can give more people some time to complete the challenges.

This sounds great!

But the long 1 year competition might be a bit to long for most people.
Its very easy to say for everybody now to say it sounds perfect, but it demands ALOT of everyone to stay focused over time. I guess all the people falling of the challenge over time would make it boring for those that are left competing as well.

Teaming up with other people would help the contestants staying focused over time and keep working on the project and will also give another level of collaborations across the borders :) I would recomend people afraid for falling of the 1 year competition teaming up with eachother.

Still i think that a 6 or 8 months competition would have been better for this first time long competition. And if people make it work, then you can make it 1 year the next time?

Im totally up for changing the short uwol challenges to 4 weeks !

I think a year will go by a lot faster than people think.

I like the idea of having all the seasons at my disposal. If I finish early, there are still the short form films to work on so it's not like I'll be sitting around twiddling my thumbs.

If you limited it to six to eight months, you eliminate the opportunity for me to shoot Iowa at it's best in the Fall.

Winter and Fall are the best times here for me to film. Spring is so-so and Summer is down right ugly, hot and humid.

People will drop out no matter what the length. It's the nature of the beast. If Meryem extends the short form challenge to four weeks, there will still people who will drop out.

I'd rather have more time than I need than less time for the long form.

If I try to do any of the short form challenges, that shortens the amount of time I have to work on the long form.

This sounds great!

But the long 1 year competition might be a bit to long for most people.
Its very easy to say for everybody now to say it sounds perfect, but it demands ALOT of everyone to stay focused over time. I guess all the people falling of the challenge over time would make it boring for those that are left competing as well.

Still i think that a 6 or 8 months competition would have been better for this first time long competition. And if people make it work, then you can make it 1 year the next time?



I have to say despite all the positive discussion on the 1 year/ 20 minute thing I'm still very much with Vegard on this.

I was actually sitting there the other night and pondering various potential options and I've almost talked myself out of doing this. Writing something 20 minutes long that has the ability to hold a viewers attention and present enough quality footage for me to be happy with I think is a step too far. I still think 10 minutes is a much better story length for where most of us are at in the development of our skills.

I'm not so bothered on a personal level about the 1 year time frame but for UWOL I don't think it will be good because I think we won't get many finishers. Again, call me pesimistic but thats my gut feeling on this!

Why even put a limit on it?
If someone wants to take a year to make a 60 second spot then let them.
If someone wants to make a two hour film then let them.

Do away with the whole minimum time limit and let everyone make their film the length they feel is best.