I think that people will struggle with 1 year and 20 minutes …I will…but isn’t that what this is all about? Struggling, climbing the 20 foot brick wall to achieve something great, learning by making mistakes, and then sharing your joys and frustrations with the UWOL community? I think that it will be very hard and at times very stressful…but if it was easy everyone would be making movies. I believe that what is so great about this concept, is that we can share every aspect of the filmmaking process with the community; from pre-production to story to production to post and all along the way, because of this setting, because we are sharing, there will always be that hand reaching out to us to help pull us out of the fast moving stream and on to dry land when we are screaming for help.

I am still for 1 year and a 20 plus minute film…

I fully expect to feel moments of frustration and futility where I feel like I want to chuck the whole thing and make it go away.

If I didn't feel those things I'd worry about my passion for the project.

I'm sure we're all going to hit the wall at times and struggle and feel that we're not making progress. But if you can push through it with help from fellow filmmakers in the same boat I think when you're done it's a journey you'll be happy you made.

Twenty minutes plus will be tough, no doubt. To hold an audience that long without falling asleep will be a huge challenge in and of itself. But I figure that's why all you are here to let me know what's working and what's not.

If you think 20 minutes is too short, go after your 90-minute feature-length documentary, and good luck with it, it is totally doable, and I would love to see some of the amazing talent in this group take that quantum leap.

20 minutes is a minimum. Just a minimum.

Once again, we have a range of skills and abilities within the long-form challenge, so the goal is to make this as flexible as possible for the greatest number of people.

Some of you will think 20 minutes is an eternity, others among you will think it is too easy.

To some degree, y'all have to take responsibility for these choices. No challenge will be all things to all people. And no one has to sign up for these, in order to make their own films.

Really, all that UWOL does is provide a context and some support for your ideas that you can't get elsewhere. The rest is entirely on you.

I think these are great ideas, even if a 20 minute / one year project looks like an unreachable mountain off in the distance to me. :-) Still, it'd be great to try even if not as an official contestant. Having longer for the 4 short rounds would be a help too, especially after finding life dealing me no time to try for the last one.

I think that people will struggle with 1 year and 20 minutes …I will…but isn’t that what this is all about? Struggling, climbing the 20 foot brick wall to achieve something great, learning by making mistakes, and then sharing your joys and frustrations with the UWOL community?

I am still for 1 year and a 20 plus minute film…

I agree with you, BUT ! Learning something in 3 weeks, digesting what you've learnt , seeing the results and then changing, re-thinking and trying something different in the next 3wk challenge is a fast moving and eductional process. A fast process that see's people develop, make mistakes but not worry too much because the next UWOL is just round the corner.

So why not make the long form players exempt from having to sign up and if they want to participate in the short form challenges they can do so after the theme has been announced?

They can still get the feedback they want right away after the challenge while still working on their long form project.

One other point...you can finish your film in 8 or 9 months or whatever...and start shopping it around to film festivals or other venues. There is nothing stopping you from finishing it earlier than the deadline, in fact, I encourage it. They will just all be judged at year-end, at the same time. But you don't have to take the full year to finish it, if you're done early, great. Just submit and wait.

Then get started on your next one...Just kidding, those of you who have ever finished a long-form film know how much more work it is to shop the thing around and submit it and find proper venues. Finishing a film just means that you're ready to take on the next round of work: MARKETING and DISTRIBUTION!!

And we will stick with the sign-up process, and time frames, and the deadlines. What makes UWOL work is a combination of the commitment that the players have and the discipline that the Challenge imposes. The model is proven, and we're not radically changing the model, just the parameters of the model, to give some of you more room to develop your ideas.

Well, I've been spinning my head for next year uwol and here's some of my thoughts. I will be planning long form entry based on my local wildlife area. There's lots of ground around here I never been to and I think this challenge could help me to fullfill the wish I have to make a documentary of this area. My plan is to make the documentary within one hour drive from my home.

I also planning to make the narration in my native language, what do you think about that guys? Don't think you're gonna understand a word of what I'm telling (except for Trond, Geir Inge..., maybe Marcus too...?)

This area consist of mostly forest divided by small lakes and rivers. No high peak mountains, no musk-ox and so on...

But it's a diverse wildlife there, you got moose (Alces alces) - the king of the forest around here, the smaller roe-deer (Capreolus capreolus), red-fox (Vulpes vulpes), the hare (Lepus europaeus), if I'm lucky maybe I'm able to get some footage of a sparrowhawk (Accipiter nisus) or a goshawk (Accipiter gentilis). I've already started to feed the non-migrating birds in a small hide in the local forest, sunflower seed and tallow is the favorites! Some red squirrels (Sciurus vulgaris) is already common at the place.

I will try to show you how the wildlife and scenery are changing during the seasons, the quiet and cold but still very beautiful wintertime, spring where everything explodes to life, summertime - flowery meadows, creepy crawlers (some spectacular macro-shots!) and the colorful autumn.


I'm not quite sure if I understand the new rules for next year uwol. Could I use footage from the long entry form in the regular 4 entries or must they be something completely different? Meryem, anyone...?

By this coming weekend, I'm going to draw up a formal set of rules for the long-form contest, I think, and post them. That will give another week for anyone just signing on, to voice their opinions on this thread, before I finalize things. For the long form, I will allow some previous footage, but there will be a limit -- maybe 10% or 3 minutes or something like that...because I know a lot of you will be basing a long-form project on something that you already shot for UWOL.

Unless anyone objects strenuously, I think I will extend the short-form to 4 weeks each round. There seems to be a lot of desire for this, and I have no objections. If it looks as if it is creating more room just to be a slacker, I can always push the deadline back to 3 weeks, but I'm happy to try it out...

Hey Per

I think this is exactly the sort of idea that would potentially work for this type of challenge. Its realistic, constant and and develops throughout the year. Finding a interesting story within this framework of course is still a big challenge.

I wouldnt worry too much about understanding it at the moment fella. Its just all up for discussion at the moment, still no decisions made as yet....well at least not that I'm aware of!

Meryem, excellent that you will draw the rules so fast! I think many here will do some planning during december before signing up for the competition. Knowing the rules at a early stage is important.

One other note. Chris (Hurd) annonced some time ago that it will be possible soon to host video at the DvInfo-site. I'm not sure but I think he was mention a kind of vimeo/youtube style (streaming). Could be nice if next year uwol-challenge could be viewed this way, without "the time consuming downloading before viewing method".

Meryem what happens if one doing the long form does not have time to post anything for one of the four times a year that you set? Will this disqualify your video? It's hard to know what ones schedule is going to be for a whole year.
Thanks.

Gordon

As far as I understand it.

The four smaller challenges are not mandatory by taking the long format. What will be, are regular posting at stages throughout the production. SO, you will have to post something at A.Scripting stage B.Pre-prod C.Shooting etc etc...It has to be this way otherwise it just means we all go off for a year, have iregular contact and with no consistancy to the production schedule.

Or have I completely mis-understood.....:-/

Hi Mat
The way I understand it when doing the long form was you would post the same time as the players with the shorts where posting.
Consistancy is something I don't have in my life. As some could do this in less than the year set for it what would be called regular posting?
Thanks.

Gordon

Hi Gordon - glad to hear from you, it is a good question....

This is actually the central question that I'm struggling with, on a couple of fronts, including the one that you mention, and it comes down to this:

To what degree is the long-form Challenge a contest, and to what degree is it a participatory community experience?

To me, the contest is always the carrot on the stick to get out there and do something, but since it is a contest, there are people who actually sign up to win the thing. It is both, there is no getting around that, and people are motivated by both elements, in equal parts.

The big strength of UWOL is the community and that, to me, means participation in that community. Otherwise, you could all just go out there and shoot your own stuff. The rules are our way of holding you accountable and keeping you consistent. So, to answer your question, I would say that you would need to meet the (soon-to-be) written deadlines in order to participate in the contest.

If this works out this year and we decide to do it again, I would consider opening next year up to non-competitive long-form entries, but only from long-time supporters of the contest, like you. Every time that I make a big change to UWOL, I have to keep a fairly tight lid on the rules at first, otherwise people get confused and then disgruntled. So I want to try this for a year before I tweak it anymore. One big tweak at a time is about all that I can handle and still keep the contest feel clear and fair to all the participants.

When I post the written rules, they will include the deadlines...and then you can decide for yourself whether you can meet them or not. I get it, that this is a large commitment, a year ahead of time -- but I'm making it, too...sometimes you guys forget that you can choose to show up for these things or not, but when I set them, I also lock myself into them. So you need to choose to do it...or not.

Man did I take a walk on the wild side. Which led nowhere. Sorry to have been gone.

Yes Meryem, I like your idea of change. More pushing. More challenge.

Not sure about the rules yet but who cares. Can you imagine the challenge to create something entertaining enough to keep browsers from so easily clicking you off - FOR TWENTY MINUTES!!!???

My goal in this will be simple. At 0:18:35 in the video I plan to have an 86 year old man run across a field of Buffalo dressed like a chicken. If anyone mentions him in their comments, I'll know I succeeded.

Despite the big adjustments that will be required to make this a success, especially managing time, I can see huge benefits for all who tackle this more serious long film format.

For those of us who do not have experience in film festivals, I do have a number of questions:

1. What is the significance of sending your work to a film festival? What is the purpose/aim of film festivals? How will one benefit from submitting a film?

2. How does one find a suitable festival to enter if this is the main aim of the long film? Will help in this regard be forthcoming and will participants share this sort of info as well, so we all perhaps end up competing in the same film festival/s?

3. What is the process that one goes through when submitting to a film festival?

For those of us who do not have experience in film festivals, I do have a number of questions:

1. What is the significance of sending your work to a film festival? What is the purpose/aim of film festivals? How will one benefit from submitting a film?

2. How does one find a suitable festival to enter if this is the main aim of the long film? Will help in this regard be forthcoming and will participants share this sort of info as well, so we all perhaps end up competing in the same film festival/s?

3. What is the process that one goes through when submitting to a film festival?

1. Glory, prestige, and ego, of course! Just kidding. It's not something that you have to aim for, to me it is a logical step past making web videos. Seeing your work screened on the big screen shows all its flaws in giant relief, in front of live humans, and will therefore motivate you to become even more skilled at video production, to avoid future embarrassments. Plus, it's just fun, you get to meet other people, talk about filmmaking, maybe a little Q & A, depending on the festival format. You can make a lot of good connections.

2. I believe that a big part of the long-form group's conversation will center on discussing venues and sharing ideas. I'll be supplying some guidance on this as well. But your best bet is to just start looking:
www.withoutabox.com
Wildlife-film.com - Wildlife Film Makers News and Information (http://www.wildlife-film.com/)

No one has to do this, it is just a suggestion for stretching people who want the challenge in new directions. The film festival idea is just a logical venue for placing your projects in the public eye, once it is completed. It is not the only option, nor is it a requirement for participating. You can just do this for the challenge and leave it on the UWOL website, when all is said and done.

Thanks Meryem.

Marj,

Its kind of like watching our UWOL films but in person and on a much bigger screen. :)

You make a lot of contacts and you get to hang out with like minded people who not only love making films but loves watching them too.

I attend my local film festival every year if I can even if I don't have anything in it.

Trying to figure out what UWOL film to submit for next year.

Thanks Kevin. Sounds intriguing and is obviously something worth investigating and working towards.

I am not even thinking about film festivals at this stage - although I will now keep my eyes open for a suitable local one and try to attend - just to see what is involved. Like many around here I am still trying to get to know my camera and still trying to get things like lighting and exposure and white balance right never mind anything else!!

Unfortunately my work always puts a lot of pressure on my time so I am definitely restricted to the short films for 2009. I really look forward to making them and doing only four per year with a slightly longer time frame will certainly make things easier for me.

The main reason I taking part into this challenge are to develop as a wildlifephotographer and to improve my way of telling a story. In fact even if I have been away for some time the last months, I have been reading this forum.

Lauri Kettunen last replay was interesting reading (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/958038-post15.html) and I've ordered the book "The art of photographing nature" by Martha Hill and Art Wolfe. I've also in the middle of reading som books on documentary making.
Not that I believe that just reading a couple of books will do all the tricks, but for me to have som basic understanding before going out in the wild is essential I think!

It's also good to be part of a community toghether with fellows with the same interests and goals. This way we can learn a lot of each other, viewing how others solve the different challenges in their own ways.

I will definitive try to accomplish a long form entry - "not because it's easy, but because it's hard" to quote a famous adage.
Hopefully others will too...? Even if I don't planning heading for any film festivals, my great interests for making wildlifefilms and my ardency of improving my own skills force me to try out this new long form challenge consept!

I've also in the middle of reading som books on documentary making.


Per Johan, which books are you reading?

I'm currently reading Barry Hampe's book, "Making Documentary Films and Reality Videos", but I would love some more recommendations.

Bob T.

I think Barry's book is one of the best.
Two others I have are "Writing, Directing and Producing Documentary Films and Videos" by Alan Rosenthal.
Another is "Documentary Storytelling for Video and Filmmakers" by Sheila Curran Bernard.

I had Art Wolfe's book years ago when I was doing still photography. Very good book.

I find that still photography books help me so much more than any video or film books because there just aren't very many nature and wildlife video books out there.

I subscribe to all the nature and wildlife photography magazines out there but don't subscribe to any video magazines.

John Shaw and Moose Peterson all have great books dealing with nature and wildlife photography that I think transfer over to video.

...Two others I have are "Writing, Directing and Producing Documentary Films and Videos" by Alan Rosenthal...
Bingo! That's one of them, the other one is - Direcing the documentary by Michael Rabiger. I got them just a couple of days ago, so actually I have just turned over the pages by now. But I will study them during the next weeks or so...

The "The art of photographing nature" by Martha Hill and Art Wolfe is very much what I was hoping for when I ordered it. As Kevin also tells, studying books on wildlife still photo helps me much out in doing good composition.

My thanks to both of you...

And my apologies for the blatant thread jacking...

Bob T.

ok, my friends, here are the rules that I promised - this is my rough draft, so feel free to make suggestions - i am going to close the suggestions period in one week, and we will begin sign-ups by the 2nd week of December, so this is your chance to help me tweak these....once we post them to the uwolchallenge.com website, we will not make any additional changes.


the one question that i have is: should we have one big feedback thread per player or 4 separate feedback threads per player (my sense is that four could get confusing, that you'll be better served by one ongoing thread, but then this may not get the attention you need...) what say the players?
--------------------------------

UWOL LONG-FORM

1. You must sign-up on the long-form contest sign-up thread at Dvinfo.net before the contest begins. The thread will close after two weeks, and no new entrants will be allowed after the thread is closed. A free account at DVinfo.net is required to play. Activation of your account may take up to one week, so if you are new to UWOL, you will need to get this done quickly.

2. By signing up, you are committing to one full year to make a long-form film
Minimum length: 20 minutes Maximum length: 90 minutes

3. You are required to post short versions of your work on a feedback thread 4x throughout the year. Your work can be defined as scripts, storyboards, footage – anything that brings you closer to the final production of your film. Your feedback thread should: give some context to your work, explain the effect you desire to achieve, and ask questions that you think will guide your community to giving you useful feedback.

4. You will give feedback to other players and receive feedback on your work on your threads on an ongoing basis. You may use these thread to pose additional questions throughout the year.

5. Your postings will take place during the weeks of February 8-11, May 10 - 13, August 9-12, and October 11-14. This should give you a window which will allow you to plan for these in advance. You must post to your feedback threads within each of these windows to be eligible to continue participating in the long-form contest. Missing a deadline disqualifies you from continuing on to the next deadline.

6. Keep in mind that the sooner you post, the more likely you are to receive the valuable feedback that will strengthen your project.

7. You must post a minimum of five minutes worth of footage during each feedback period. The sole exception to this rule is during the first feedback period, February 8-11, when you must post a minimum of 3 minutes worth of footage. The planning stages may consume more of your time on the front end, so the footage minimum is more relaxed.

8. File dimensions cannot exceed 428 x 240 and cannot exceed 180 mb in size. If you are making a longer film, we would suggest either shrinking the file dimensions or posting your draft footage to your own website or to the free footage site of your choice and providing a link back to your feedback thread. You are free to host your own draft material, if you decide that you want to exceed UWOL’s file sizes and dimensions.

9. Your final project must be posted the week of November 15, at which time your entry will be available for final judging. You will not post a feedback thread at this time, instead you will upload your file to the UWOL site. We will have a thread announcing the finalists and linking to your entry. This will be the one Giant Final Feedback thread that will serve all the finishers.

9. UWOL will archive your final project, but all draft footage materials will be discarded at the end of the contest, to save server space.

10. The winner will be announced December 1, 2009

11. We must have a minimum of five completed entries for the judging to take place.

12. Many of you will be basing your long-form project on an idea that you formulated during a previous Challenge round. Therefore, you can use up to 3 minutes of footage shot for previous UWOL short-form contests. All other footage must be unique to this Challenge and shot specifically to meet the requirements of the long-form contest.

Thanks for making up the rules for this long form challenge Meryem!

A question comes to me, when reading the rules for the long form. There will also be additional 4 short ones, which will be annonced, each one with separate themes, doesn't it Meryem?

So that players who don't want to take part in a long competition for a whole year can compete in those short ones? And players who take part in the long form can even compete in the short ones too?

Will the short ones and the long form run in the same timeframe (February 8-11, May 10 - 13, August 9-12, and October 11-14)? Players who compete in both will have 2 separate entries in every round? If so can players use footage from the long form entry into the regular challenge (if the footage fits to the theme)?


I will definitive try to make room to be able to compete into this challenge, both the long- and short ones if possible!

7. You must post a minimum of five minutes worth of footage during each feedback period. The sole exception to this rule is during the first feedback period, February 8-11, when you must post a minimum of 3 minutes worth of footage. The planning stages may consume more of your time on the front end, so the footage minimum is more relaxed.

Should this be edited footage? Or footage put togther in a presentable format to keep people from running out the day before and shooting anything just to make the timeline?

I am looking at the 4 posting as homework assignments to help me keep on track in making a film that I have been dreaming of for quite some time. I plan to share every aspect of my filmmaking process so that I can learn and get suggestions from the community. I plan to share my long range plans, my script, my shooting schedule, just get everything out there so that the community can say "Whoa, wait Jeff! That is NEVER going to work!". So my other question is...can we do that...put EVERYTHING out there...?

You also mentioned earlier that we could use a small amount of pre-shot footage. Is that the case?

I hate to have to go out and reshoot the same thing all over again. :)

Jeff, I think it would be great to have you document the entire process. We'll see what Meryem has to say about it.

I'm thinking mine will be out of sequence starting in the winter her so not sure if it'll make any sense.

Besides, I usually put mine together at the last moment anyway. :)

Look forward to getting this one started!

Should this be edited footage?

Oh, I hope not. I rarely edit anything until I look at everything I have to work with. :)


On a personal note, not really a problem with the rules...
I won't be getting my new camera until mid-late February, so anything I shoot for the Feb posting will, more than likey, not be in the final film.
So I don't know how that plays with the rules.

Bob

Hi Per: Yes, there will still be 4 short-form challenges, business as usual...the only thing that will change about the short-form is the dates. I didn't post the short-form rules because everybody here knows them now.

Even Dale! Right, Dale?? (just teasing ya...)

Yes, Kevin, you can use 3 minutes -- the equivalent of one previous UWOL -- in your long-form film. I'll add that rule...

and yes, Jeff, you can put up EVERYTHING...this is about exposing your process, to get the feedback that you need to make it great.

and i prefer edited footage be uploaded for review - the purpose of this is to help you solve storytelling problems and critique your cinematography, audio, etc., and if we can't see your story, then we can't help you. you don't have to use these edits -- believe me, the first long-form piece that i ever edited had to be re-done several times --MAJOR re-edits will occur, sustaining the story is a big challenge.

and one reminder: anyone who feels like they would rather do it their way, *should* do it their way, on their own time. if you think that this method doesn't work with the way that you work, then you should find the work habits that suit you best and stick with them.

you can always shoot, edit, and deliver your own way, on your own time, and get great feedback from the regular "Under Water, Over Land" forum...no one has to play this game, but those that play, have to play by the same rules.

Well, should be interesting as my film will start probably in the Spring so the stuff I shoot in December-February will be somewhere towards the end. So, not sure if it'll all make sense but we'll see. :)

Hopefully in the next month or two, I can have a story locked and start shooting towards it.

Good evening,

Yes, Dale a chronic rule breaker, can be taught. Still have trouble with stop signs in the middle of the vast open prairies!!

I will be doing a full, probably two part, film on the Saskatchewan Falconry.

It will be from taking a a baby and nurturing it until it is a competant hunter and then Hunting with Falcons through an entire season at various gamebirds.

An outdoor tv station has seen some my other work and have been pushing me to produce a couple features for them, so if I like it I have a place for it already.

Storyboarding is my hardest endevor, scripting second. Well, to be honest its all kind of hard, but if it was easy what is the point?

Having it due in November presents a bit of a problem so I will start by getting winter footage starting as soon as possible through February 28th.

Posting progress four times should be no problem at all.

I will be taking on a two partners in the endevor: My wife to do some filming and critiquing, and Nairn Gillies , a naturally talented camera man with a creative soul.

I think the rules are fine and I am sure others will have some fine suggestions.

I even like the dates for submissions.

The posting of progress reports is interesting and I suspect on thread per person is best as one can go over more of the progress discussions and give more succinct suggestions.


We need to know what percent of a project can be prior footage.

I will be stepping up to HD come February so that ought to add some fun to the program as well.

I have the cameras out today and getting everything tuned up.

When can we start filming!!

Revved and Ready

Rule #12, the one Kevin pointed out, is now up...(it will move to a different spot in the list in the final form, but it was easier to tack it onto the end)

The one thing that is still chewing at me is whether we should have the short-form and the long-form contests posting at the same time. The way that I set up the dates, we could have short-form entries due the week before. Or we could have the whole thing, both short- and long- entries land at the same time - I can't decide whether that would be chaotic or convenient.

Thoughts?

Rule #12, the one Kevin pointed out, is now up...(it will move to a different spot in the list in the final form, but it was easier to tack it onto the end)

The one thing that is still chewing at me is whether we should have the short-form and the long-form contests posting at the same time. The way that I set up the dates, we could have short-form entries due the week before. Or we could have the whole thing, both short- and long- entries land at the same time - I can't decide whether that would be chaotic or convenient.

Thoughts?

I feel that you should keep the feedback times for the two contests separate to avoid complicating matters - especially for those doing both forms.

In my experience it takes a long time to give feedback to each contestant and when one is trying to do this before the judge selects the winner it is a pretty intensive time. After that the site is pretty dead till the next contest.

Now that we have even more time in between contests wouldn't that be a good time to deal with the long-form films and do more justice to their critiques?

The long-form films won't be judged until the end of the year so their critique is not as urgent as the short-form films each round and can basically be done anytime between each of their postings.

Just another small by-the-by - in S.A. we have limited bandwidth and it’s possible I may not have enough available to download all the additional movies. Consequently I may only be able to download and crit the long-form films the following month anyway.

Meryem,

I personally weould like to have them at different times, perhaps by a month.

1. This allows me to focus on the short form with no worries.

2. I always need the full time frame to complete these, never quick and easy for me.

3. while I will be working all the time on the long form I would prefer not to have excess pressure for either one.

4. If they are both at a similar time I fear if things do not go just right I may end up in the shark tank. Want to stay out of there.

5. It also sprreads out the response time so one will not feel overwhelmed setting at the computer for continious hours as you would like to give a prompt response.

ok, i guess it never occurred to me that you all would want to do both! let me give the scheduling of both a bit more consideration....i don't want to prevent you people from fully torturing yourselves!

As others already have mentioned, I also would prefer the feedback for the long- and short form challenges should be separated by at least a week (or two) and not at the same time.
This would give the players time to concentrate about one film at a time.

Meryem I have a question.

What if the theme that someone has chosen for their long-form film does not prove viable after say six months of working on it - for whatever valid reason - be it unexpected, unfavourable conditions, subjects don't show-up, not working out the way they visualized it - what choices do they have?

Do they have to remain committed to the theme regardless or pull out or can they change their theme?

If so, how far down the line will you allow people to do this?

I can imagine quite a few people could re-think their themes at the beginning after laying out their ideas and getting responses and I can see that some folk could run into trouble even three months down the line after filming has started, but I am thinking too that someone could conceivably decide at the end to drop the film they have been submitting for comment all year because it is not working out for them and submit a film that no-one has seen before.

There would be no theme announced -- the topic would be your choice, but it would have to fit the spirit of UWOL.


This is from Meryem's first post...

It seems unlikely to me that someone would do a complete 180 at the 11th hour, that would be a lot of work stuffed into a short time frame, but I do expect many of the projects to evolve in new, even radically new, directions, over time. As long as your film is following a logical, visible trajectory of development, I'll allow it. Since we have five posting opportunities to track it, I don't think this will be difficult to observe.

Marg,

Just a couple thoughts: On the short challenges I can see this kind of thing happening and it has with oftentimes the person changing their project, but still on theme, and a few tankers because of it.

On a long challenge such as this I suspect people will be doing something they arre passionate about and know just what they can do with it. I would actually not expect to see the problems we see in the short form.

I think Meryem has been pretty understanding of the various issues people have come up against and I am certain that will continue within reason.

Hope we can start shooting soon, I need winter footage that is presently available to me!!

Hi Dale: One of the distinguishing features of the long-form is that you can start shooting immediately, as soon as you sign up, and we are about 2 weeks away, so I hope you'll be able to get the footage that you have in mind.

Thanks for the replies. Just wanted to establish how far players would be locked into their topic once they had decided on it.

Meryem,

I personally weould like to have them at different times, perhaps by a month.

1. This allows me to focus on the short form with no worries.

2. I always need the full time frame to complete these, never quick and easy for me.

3. while I will be working all the time on the long form I would prefer not to have excess pressure for either one.

4. If they are both at a similar time I fear if things do not go just right I may end up in the shark tank. Want to stay out of there.

5. It also sprreads out the response time so one will not feel overwhelmed setting at the computer for continious hours as you would like to give a prompt response.

I agree with Dale...

...me too! Fully agree with Dale. I'm planning to take part in both challenges if possible...

My concern is this. I want to enter the long challenge, however, I will not be able to shoot any of the video till the end of May early Jun. So how can I turn in feedback footage in Feb and May? Bob

I am considering entering the long one and the point Bob brings up is quite valid.
What I want to do would not require filming until April and then on and off for a couple more months, followed by hours of editing. Although a lot of ground work would take place before April hide building etc, there would be little need for any filming.

I am sure entrants from all over the world with different season are going to encounter similar problems, maybe there is a need to look at the number of clips that need to be uploaded. Maybe an idea would be that you have to submit 3 out of 4 and you can opt out of which one you wish.

Just a though

Mick

no interviews, nothing? no effects work?

That's good feedback, but I really think it has more to do with your guys' thought process on whether this is right for you, or not. If I make these sorts of exceptions or complicated sets of rules, then it becomes my responsibility to track them.

That may be something to consider for the following year, but the first time around, it is important to keep the structure of things tight, while making periodic allowances for some specific circumstances.

("I'm getting married tomorrow and forgot that my wedding is on the same day as the deadline, can I post a day late??" Well, ok.)

After doing this for two years, you learn to keep things relatively simple. Or lose your mind. Whichever comes first!