After reading another closed post here's some advice from an old video guy;

When you work for free that's what your work is worth - nothing.

I cannot think of one single example in my 25 year video career where someone said; "This will be great exposure for you!" or "Do this project for free this time and we'll bring you more work when the project takes off." and either of these things actually happened.

These are the great lies of business and television. If you work for exposure or for free you devalue your work and the work of the rest of us who actually try to make a living in this business. No matter what the level of your experience (or inexperience) you should receive some compensation for your efforts and have some sort of written agreement in place.

I've written my thoughts on this many times over the years, but one more time...

There's a big difference between working for a client for free and working for a producer for free. I agree, I've never got a single cent of business from working for a client for free. Ever.... except more requests to do more projects for free. ANd they WILL get mad when you tell them you have to charge them... and then they will go find someone else who will do it for free, because you've already proven to them that you can.

However, when I got out of school, I spent more than a year working mostly for free for other video producers. Almost all the work I currently do comes from the people I met in those years. I still work for free on projects that I think have good network potential.

Having said that, I should also point out that I've worked for enough idiots over the years that I can usually spot the time wasters pretty quickly. This is a critical skill to have if you want to be in the video production world.

Work is the operative word here. If you are "working" you need to know your cost of doing business (CODB) and even though that camcorder you may have may be paid for you still have rent, insurance (you do have insurance?), gas, heat, etc. No one asks an employee at a company to "work" for free, it'll look good on your resume. And don't fall for the BS that if you do this one for free, or little pay, we'll be sure to send you all the paying work when that happens. Clients love this trap!!!

They won't do it. They'll get the "pro" who knows how to run the biz and won't take less for their services.

If you do the "work" for free, than why not just call it an expensive hobby and not work for those people and "work" for yourself on a short film, promotion, whatever, that will help you down the line. Or learn a new "trick" that would make your services more valuable.

Jonathan

I have offered "shooting for free" to make a demo for corporate video. It was strictly "interviews" and "demo/training videos" which has to take less than 3 hours to shoot and less than 5 min output, only digital format, no DVD, no fancy edit, just simple edit. If they want more, they would have to pay for the extra.
The purpose of my offer was for me to have examples of what I am capable of as for the corporate videos (of course, bunch of unknown bands called me and asked if I can shoot their concert or make music videos for free, though I CLEARLY stated that it's for corporate / non-profit group).
I have to break into the corporate video field and it's not easy, rather impossible to get a job without anything to show to clients. So I offered some small business and non-profit group that I would work with them for a small project.
Is this a bad idea? Is my work really worth nothing? I don't know. I don't think my work worth nothing, and for the long run, I think having some footage on my own will help me get started with my new production. Honestly, I am getting some wedding booking for next year, but no corporate job yet since I opened (which is 3 months ago). Well, there have been several calls asking price and some demo, but always turned down at demo part. My budget has been running out quick and I needed to some 'exposure..'
Am I going right direction? OR like Rick said, I should never do something like that?
Thank you, and this forum and everyone who gives out advice is always truly appreciated.

JJ

A good number of years ago when my wife was still working, I produced a freebie on the work her office did (Technical Writing) for a corporate meeting. There was never any talk of a fee. It did, however, turn into 3 paying projects later for their sales department.

I have never had a client ask for a freebie, and these days do very little video work outside the day job (government video) except for my own private projects.

I think that if you are just breaking into the business, it is ok to do a free gig or two. I'm relatively new to the TV/Video production market (I graduated college last year) and I've done some free work for a producer and she in turn has given me some contacts where she works that are looking to hire. It's a lot easier to get work if the company knows you or someone recommends you from within the company. It's all about networking. If you do free work for the right people, then they owe you a favor. Just remember to reciprocate when you get in that position. Good luck.

When starting out I believe doing work for free is a great way to begin. You are being paid: you are getting experience and that is your reward.

I personally do extra free work for clients when I want to try something new and need a demo to sell the service later. They have no idea of the value of the extra service, unless I tell them, but I don't care.

On the other hand I normally do not ever do free work for friends and relatives except for soon I will do a shoot for a very close childhood friend who has sent me a paying customer once. He needs a training video. His long-time business is close to going under, and I couldn't have it on my conscience that I didn't try to help him out.

In my opinion as a fairly new videographer. working for free as a new videographer is an apprenticeship, you are actually trading time for a learning experience. for an established videographer to work for free in hopes of gaining future work at regular prices is... well..

Two thoughts:

1. Doing a project for a non-profit (at no fee) you should still get an "in kind" receipt, which will help come tax time. Therefore, your work has "value" which you kindly contributed to the organization (as opposed to a cash contribution).

2. If you worked for free for the last client (excluding the above example), and I'm the next client, why should I pay for your work?

Two thoughts:

2. If you worked for free for the last client (excluding the above example), and I'm the next client, why should I pay for your work?

I would not tell my client that I worked with the other guy for free (for confidentiality of my other client) and that's why I set up first 5 callers only limit which will exipre end of this month, so no one comes up to me and ask "yeh, I am interested in that ad you posted 6 months ago about free shooting and stuff...)

1. Doing a project for a non-profit (at no fee) you should still get an "in kind" receipt, which will help come tax time. Therefore, your work has "value" which you kindly contributed to the organization (as opposed to a cash contribution).

Not sure how US tax law works on this but in Canada, you are then required to claim the "in kind" "revenue" as income, and then deduct it later so you're no further ahead than just doing it for free in the first place.

Have I ever done anything for free? Yes: for existing clients (value added as well as "let me try this out...") and for not-for-profit charities that I would support monetarily if not for my "in kind" donation. Not meaning to ruffle feathers but my belief is that doing something for free for someone whom you don't have an existing business or personal relationship with is either:
a) a waste of your time because the "client" would NEVER PAY for it in the first place; or
b) stealing paying work from someone else.

Edit: I DO believe that offering up your services as an apprentice while learning one's trade is acceptable, as long as you get credit and the ability to show off some of your hard work in future. I apprenticed under my mentor for a couple of months before I was offered a paying gig with him, and ultimately ran his business for a year after he passed away suddenly.

90% of my business is in the IT industry - that's where I came from, that's what I understand (not a software geek so much as an ability to tell technical stories visually).

When I first started out in video production I needed a showreel so I did a few projects in exchange for the privilege of having access to a real live business, with real people, telling real stories about real products and solutions. Those videos got shown at exhibitions, conferences, websites etc and part of the deal was that I could promote my website at the end of each video.

That was seven years ago. Since then I have not spent one penny on advertising or promotion - everything has been word of mouth springing from those two initial lucky breaks, with the first paying jobs coming within a few weeks. Now I have what I believe to be a pretty good client base (there's a list at my website) and despite some scarily quiet periods I'm making a very good living. In fact, I think I have sent my showreel out maybe three or four times only!

Would I have built this business without doing those freebies? I guess. But this gave me the flying start I needed and gave me a lot of exposure and credibility early on that would have perhaps taken longer to build if I had gone out with a 'fake' showreel.

I'm not convinced that doing a few jobs for free or very cheap when you're starting out is such a crime. Just make sure you are getting something out of it - exposure, a demo reel, a reference customer, a kind word on your website, a link here and there, your phone number/email at the end of the video.

A couple of other things I have learned over the years:

1. Working in the IT industry I have access to businesses that get software and equipment at cost or that get rid of demo gear after a few months. Where a client's budget might not stretch, I am always happy to consider the equivalent in goods. I have kept my Adobe software legal and current as a result (saving me £000's). Likewise I don't believe I have ever paid anything more than than dealer prices on pretty much any other software I use. I have had several laptops, processors, memory sticks, disks etc for free in exchange for a reduced price video. I ALWAYS come out better in those deals than if I had taken the cash and bought through normal channels. Of course if I was working in the wedding industry it might be different ("I'll make the film in exchange for half an hour with your bride". Hmmm . . .)

2. When a client says "do the first one at a huge discount and we'll pay full price for future videos", suggest to them that you'll do THIS one at full price and the second one at discount.

Of course if I was working in the wedding industry it might be different ("I'll make the film in exchange for half an hour with your bride". Hmmm . . .)

2. When a client says "do the first one at a huge discount and we'll pay full price for future videos", suggest to them that you'll do THIS one at full price and the second one at discount.

I couldn't agree with you more on last two point. Doesn't half an hour seem too short for a great wedding movie?
I will be gone to Milwaukee WI for a couple freebie for private art school (non-profit) and non-profit group that helps kids to get out of drug usage. They have some idea but not really... I am gonna help them how they can tell their story more effectively with my tools and set up shooting schedule for next a couple of weeks.

JJ

Doing freebies at the start of your career can be useful if you can spot the rip off merchants, but at the other end of your working life the 'giving something back' reflex comes into play too. I work for greatly reduced rates (just money for petrol, really) for a charity for sick kids. Does the charity good, I hope and makes me feel good as well.

"….there are few situations in life that cannot be honourably settled, and without loss of time, either by suicide, a bag of gold, or by thrusting a despised antagonist over the edge of a precipice upon a dark night."
Kai Lung’s Golden Hours - Ernest Bramah

I met an old musician friend recently who I know has talent and 'could' be heading places.
It didn't take long for the conversation to lead to us talking about a music video.
This is an area I would love to break into.
To put a long story short, on the day i was supposed to travel accross the country to shoot some footage at a gig they were playing I rang them to clarify a few details.
Basically I needed my petrol and accomodation plus food and tapes covered.

At the very mention of the small amount of money I required there was slight hesitation detected so I decided not to waste my time.

I figured one would need to invest a lot of time and energy into this project to ultimately get paid. They, as a band would need to succeed, and i would need to make this happen.

Maybe they will succeed and i'll be watching them next year on MTV but I have decided that I don't care. And i genuinely wish them the best of luck.
Meanwhile I wont step outside the door with my camera unless Im guaranteed a profit.
Although that could change when my next quiet period collides with what I (and i mean MYSELF alone) recognise as a worthwhile opportunity, we'll see.

I never work for free.

Sometimes, I'll work for something OTHER than money, but never 'for free'.

This goes to that whole 'just starting off and working for experience' - approach. You see it all the time. IF you are in fact, a newcomer, then you may be offered a chance to build your reel/resume by 'working for free'. Alright then, here's where you start building your professionalism. Draw up a contract, that outlines the amount of time you are willing to 'donate' to the project, and what you expect to be donated 'in kind'. The meals, the transportation, the tapestock, the number of copies, the right to use the footage in a demo online - whatever. These are the checkpoints a newbie should use to determine if the project is worth 'donating' their time for. If the producer balks at signing, or doesn't want to be 'held' to any kind of agreement - then move on. You don't want THAT experience. (Expect to negotiate - this is part of the experience you are gaining.)

Look, if Steven Spielberg asks for time, give it to him. The bragging rights alone would be worth a boatload of money... it's not like you're working 'for free'. But if Uncle Bob's Pit Barbecue asks for you to 'work for free' - then ask him if he'll cater your kids birthday party. If Uncle Bob is a real honest businessman, he'll see the exchange as fair - if not - move on.

If they don't have the cash, see what they can barter. Their product? Their own time? (Hey, you run audio for me on this gig - and I'll give you a day of shooting on your project -BUT PUT IT IN WRITING)

Even when I add value to a project I'm getting paid for, I 'bill' it. The client asks for some extra dubs, not in the deal- or maybe some extra service - I list it on the bill, at full market rate - then I put COMPLIMENTARY or DISCOUNT or PROFESSIONAL COURTESY on the bill by those services. They look at the bill, and realize the value they have been 'given' - They are likely to recommend my services, and probaly use them again - while understanding the real cost they might be charged in the future.

I guess the issue is what does "FREE" mean to you? Working for nothing but experience? Then the experience had better be damn well worth it. A badly run shoot that goes nowhere is worth doing ONCE - only to learn never to do it again. (You've paid for an expensive lesson)

But I'm a fan of Groucho Marx' line "Learn from other people's mistakes - you'll never live long enough to make them all yourself."

Richard,
I find your advice about writing out the invoice very helpful. I guess that's something that could make me differentiate from 'newbie' newbie to 'professional' newbie.
Thanks alot for the advice.

JJ

... I list it on the bill, at full market rate - then I put COMPLIMENTARY or DISCOUNT ...

GREAT IDEA! - Since I'm only just starting to break in to the industry on a professional basis, I'm happy to look at 'freebies' but this idea really puts the deal in perspective.

I really agree with the 'put it in writing' as well, that way everyone's clear on who get's what.

They look at the bill, and realize the value they have been 'given'

Thats all good advice I'll be taking on board.
I suppose also when they look at the bill they see you're not a soft touch either.

Glad you guys are learning from MY mistakes!

A young woman is interviewing a female businesswoman who made it to 'the top'. - "How did you get to be CEO?" she asked.

CEO - "Two words - Good Decisions"

The young woman continued - "So, how do you KNOW you're making good decisions?"

CEO - "One word - EXPERIENCE!"

The woman took down the remarks, and said - "Yes, but how do you get the experience?"

CEO - "Two words - Bad Decisions".