I see a lot of Avid comparisons to FCP and Adobe, but DVStorm2 seems to be a major player. Has anyone compared these two systems side by side?

Does anyone know of a website that has done so? I understand Avid is the industry workhorse, but DVStorm seems to be doing great things, and it includes hardware based real-time effects and hardware MPEG2 encoding. Most people agree Canopus's ProCodor is the best for MPEG coding, so isn't that a pretty good selling point. All of Avid's advertisements include the disclaimer: we're the best software-only NLE. That sounds like they're bowing down to Canopus right there. What am I missing?

The truth is, I'm pretty sold on the DVStorm2, but I don't want to regret it later on. What does Avid have that's so special, other than it's what "everbody" is supposedly using.

Has no one used both Avid and Canopus? There are no thoughts on this matter?

DVStorm 2 is a CARD. The NLE is usually Premiere. You said you had seen comparisons between Avid and Adobe - that should be your comparison.

Hmmm . . . that is a good point. DVStorm2 is actually an editing suite (StormEdit) that relies heavily on it's hardware card. But the point remains and is well taken. Thank you.

I'll re-phrase my question. Will I get noticably better quality from the DVStorm2 card than from a software-only solution like Avid XpressDV?

I just learned that Avid XpressPro with Mojo (DNA family based hardware accelerator) comes with the FilmMaker's Toolkit including Avid FilmScribe, AutoSync, Dupe Detection, Script-Based editing, Avid Log Exchange, Film Effects, IllusionFX, Image Stabilization, Avid Pan and Zoom, Sorenson Squeeze 3.1 Compression Suite, Boris GRAFFITI LTD, Sonic Solutions ReelDVD and Profound Effects Elastic Gasket.

I was thinking I'd have to purchase those things separately. I guess Avid just doesn't feel they need to market those things, the name sells its self.

I don't think I'm considering the Canopus any longer.

What are your needs? I have Avid 3.5, FCP4 and a DVStorm2 with both Premiere and Edius. I do a lot of events like dance performances, and the real "realtime" of the Storm ensures that it is my most used system. Why? Because of instant color correction, white balance, etc. If you have time for long renders, then Avid would be a good solution (although money wise, I still would go for the Storm). That said, I use all of the systems for different reasons (I teach video production at a high school, that's why I have Avid and FCP - I want my students exposed to a variety of NLE's), but my primary is the Storm. I think the first question you always need to answer when looking for an NLE is, which system meets the most of my needs? None of them will make you a better editor. Some are just better matched to your skills or personal preferences.

Jeff,

Thank you, that is just the response I was looking for. Now, if you had to choose one and lose the others forever, in the event business you're in, which one would you choose?

(quote)>>I think the first question you always need to answer when looking for an NLE is, which system meets the most of my needs?

Alex, the best NLE usually depends on what you need to do with it. Are you shooting multicam or just one camera? Do you need titling, lots of color correction, and DVD encoding?

Now we're talking. Primarily one cam, and yes, I want all those things expecially the DVD encoding.

For reliability, speed, quality and general all around usefullness, the Storm or the other Canopus RT products are it hands down for my business.

I've recently moved to Edius which is still fast, more powerful and still reliable. Plugs right in in place of StormEdit, RexEdit, etc.

Once you use real real time, there is just no going back.

Avid would be a reasonable choice if I had to take my video further than just to DVD or VHS. If I had to send the work to an on-line suite (probabaly an Avid) for absolute compliance to, say, the PBS Red Book, then I would look at Avid.

But the Canopus products work very well for commercial cable and any corporate/wedding/event work you will ever need to do.

The only time I reach for something other than a Canopus editing product is when I need serious compositing (AE) or picture prep or creation (Photoshop).

And the ProCoder LE that comes with Edius does a great job of encoding for DVD.

I will chime in on this one too...

I purchased a Storm and use Premiere 6.5 with Pro on the way. I also puchased XDV and have it on the same machine...

For what I do, which is multicam editing that goes to local cable and broadcast each week, I never leave my Storm/Premiere bundle. I use a multicam software to cut my project together and have realtime everything with the Storm. The only reason I use Avid is because it's industry standard. Other than that it slows me down and doesn't provide what I need as a DV man, on stict deadlines: reliable real-time.

If you have to work with others who work with Avid, then go Avid, just because they can be a pain to work with always wanting to have the Avid vs Premiere, Avid vs FCP, etc.. debates, and it gets old after a while.

I get my work done and on time, that's what matters to me.

Thanks!

Hi all.

How about the Matrox RT-X100 Xtreme?

Best regards,
Arnaldo

Doesn't have nearly the good rep as the Canopus products.

My only experience with Matrox support was not good. Others have had great luck with them.

The other big problem with Pinnacle and Matrox is that they have more new models than the automobile companies. When they come out with something new, the old product usually loses support if one can believe the posted laments by the owners of the abandoned products.

My oldest Canopus product is almost 5 years old. It still is kept up to date by Canopus. For the first time I recently bought updated software from them. An entirely new editing program that is quite good right out of the chute.

Their older software still works fine and is supported at no cost. Their drivers have kept up with NT, 2000, and XP while the software itself has been upgraded at no cost to handle dual processors and other embedded tools created by the microprocessor makers. Plus their Codecs have always been the yardstick against which others are measured. Did I mention that the systems are fast and the RT is real RT? Always has been.

If I want to speed up my Canopus system, all I have to do is upgrade my computer. I'm not limited by the on-board hardware on the edit card. Most other systems cannot do this and now the other manufacturers are starting to understand and support the concept.

So while others have been changing editing systems to keep up to date, the Canopus users have Just Been Editing. It seems a simple thing but it makes a large difference at the end of the day, month and year.

Hi Mike.

I'm happy with Matrox. My RT-X100 is my workhorse and never let me down. I get Real Time worfklow (no rendering) and RT mpeg-2 encoding for DVD with very good quality.
Matrox released The RT-X100 Xtreme and I upgraded mine at no cost with zero problems.

Nevertheless it's good to hear other opinions like yours, and it will be taken into consideration on my future purchase decisions.

Best regards,
Arnaldo

Bit of a tangent but, Mike, what usage or performance issues led you to choose a Canopus NLE for Storm2 versus continuing with Premiere? I've never been clear on the pros and cons of selecting an NLE for a specific card, provided all contenders are supported of course.

David Hurdon

The new series Matrox RT-X100 and even the smaller RT-X10 Xtreme are similar to the Canopus RT systems.

Matrox were a bit late but they are up now with the scalable technology (hence you upgrade the PC to get more video streams and effects in real time)

What I've heard is that Matrox is a bit more picky for the hosting computer than the Canopus which usually work on the fly with wilde range of systems.

David,

You can still use Premier with a Canopus card. It gives it wings (or so I hear).

The Matrox cards have limited scalability. They have hardware limitations that the Storm does not have.

I selected Canopus on the basis of hardware reliability after fighting with FAST, Matrox and Pinnacle Systems products. The only other contender was one of the appliance editing systems but the lack of PC connectivity killed it for me.

I had been using Ulead's Studio Pro for editing. When I purchased the Canopus product, it also came with Ulead as well as RexEdit. Note that I do not have the Storm, I have its predecessor.

Once I tried RexEdit, Ulead became a very distant second choice.

Most video is comprised of cuts and dissolves. Very little else. So I went for speed in handling large numbers of clips, quality of the results, and simplicity of use, and a fast and good titler. Not in any particular order.

I have very little use for tons of 3D transitions. All I need is good clip handling, and (now) RT color correction, audio and video filters, etc. Also, their slow motion is second to none—something that is useful in Wedding Videos. What I needed (and have) is an industrial-strength editor with no mysterious crashes.

When I need more than RexEdit (or now Edius) it is because I need serious compositing or Rotoscoping.

All the complaints over the years about Premiere crashing and doing strange things kept me from trying it although I do now own a copy. Just too lazy to learn it.

Mike,
Please descride your system (processor, ram, video card, etc.)

"What I needed (and have) is an industrial-strength editor with no mysterious crashes."

We're all looking for this!!

I have two systems that are constructed with Canopus-approved bits.

Oldest system is SuperMicro P6DGE motherboard with twin PIII 850's and 1 gig of memory. Canopus xPlode display card. 900 gigs of EIDE and SCSI disk space.

Newest system is Asus P4T-E with P4 1.5 gig, 512 memory, Matrox G450 display card. 400 gigs of EIDE disk memory.

As soon as I get done with the current batch of editing projects, I'll replace the older system with an ASUS P4C800-E DELUXE motherboard, P4 2.4 gig Hyperthreading processor, 1 gig of registered RAM, and another dual-monitor display card that has not yet been selected. I don't want to pay $600 for a gamer card, but I want one that will accelerate After Effects rendering which is my big bottleneck now.

Can you tell that I don't ever use leading edge products? Those are the ones that launch arrows at their owners.

Note that these are components that are known good for Canopus products. Not necessarily for editing products from other companies.

Also note that other applications do crash on these computers. But the Canopus products don't. The worst behaviour I can get is on the older computer when I have RexEditRT, After Effects, Photoshop and Sound Forge all loaded at the same time. Once in a while the overlay disply will get funny and I will have to shut all the software down and restart it. I suspect the Adobe products to be the culprits in that instance.

One other thing, I test every piece of software I put on the older, main, editing system, on the P4 system first. And the older system is never connected to the Internet.

BTW, I spent 3 months trolling through all the system distributors in Silicon Valley before I selected the Canopus products. I saw Avids and Media 100, Pinnacle and larger FAST systems all crash several times during the demos. Only the Canopus and the appliance editing system did not crash.

At the time, the Canopus DVRex was also $5K less expensive than the 'industrial' editing products from the other companies.