Anyone else annoyed by the way Sony has gone to that 3 switch gain button? They used to have it set up that once you fully opened the iris dial that it would then increase the gain.

The problems are:
* Limited to 3 presets that need to be set in the menu. Indoors I usually need 12db so then you're left with a compromise of
0,6,12 missing important middle ranges of 3 and 6
3,6,12 missing no gain and 9
3,9,12 missing no gain and 6
3,6,9 you get into a low light situation that you need 12 and your screwed

* The switch is hard and when you need to adjust the gain during live shooting, you'll get a visible vibration from the switch and an audible click. Even an off camera mic (3ft away) picks up the sound.

I shoot a lot of dance performances with black backgrounds where you have to shoot using manual exposure and it just annoys me to have to toggle that dam switch through the entire performance.

Anyone else annoyed by the way Sony has gone to that 3 switch gain button? They used to have it set up that once you fully opened the iris dial that it would then increase the gain.



That is only true for consumer cameras. Most professional cameras have the same switch setup as the FX1. I too have a FX1 and most of the time have it set at 9db for theatre video shooting which means the iris is somewhere around F4 to F5.6 most of the time giving good depth of field for the stage. Meaning I can set the focus and leave it that way as depth of field will cover most of the stage unless I zoom to the max. Increasing gain after the iris is full open will give minimum depth of field and require continuously refocusing.

Ron Evans

I agree Pete - I shoot performances and it is indeed a nuisance not to be able to smoothly add gain. I would prefer some sort of wheel or knob which would add gain in 3dB increments. Recently I've been doing pretty much what Ron suggests though. A 9dB gain boost is still pretty clean. For my most recent shoot I set the switch at 9-12-18. There was one scene of the opera where the only light came from two flashlights - pretty crazy for a production in a 3,000 seat theatre...

You can set up a picture profile with a max auto gain limit, say 12db. Then set the switch at 0, 6, 9 or whatever. When it's too dark for that, hit the auto gain button, and it will go to your 12db limit. This effectively gives you a fourth value.

There is a setting which ramps the gain change when you use the switch. For myself I rather have simple metal Nagra switches which give the assurance of taxtile feedback than plastic pretties which have to be stared at whilst you try to hold your shot nd may break.

You can set up a picture profile with a max auto gain limit, say 12db. Then set the switch at 0, 6, 9 or whatever. When it's too dark for that, hit the auto gain button, and it will go to your 12db limit. This effectively gives you a fourth value.
thx. good tip, I'll use that next time.

still annoyed that they no longer have gain incorporated with the iris control dial.

I agree Pete - I shoot performances and it is indeed a nuisance not to be able to smoothly add gain.
like bob hart says you can control the speed at which gain changes take place in the menu

I would prefer some sort of wheel or knob which would add gain in 3dB increments. Recently I've been doing pretty much what Ron suggests though. A 9dB gain boost is still pretty clean. For my most recent shoot I set the switch at 9-12-18. There was one scene of the opera where the only light came from two flashlights - pretty crazy for a production in a 3,000 seat theatre...
Usually no consideration is given to lighting for the video camera. Which means you have to cover a wide exposure range with dark and high contrast lighting. I wouldn't have a problem with them lighting for the audience, unfortunately they usually complain its too dark after they see the video.

3,6,9db give excellent brightness with low noise. 12db is a necessary evil to keep customers from complaining. 15+db is just awful and i refuse to go there.

There is a setting which ramps the gain change when you use the switch.

What setting is that Bob, I must have missed something? Gain setup only lets you assign a gain level to each switch position. Just looked through my Z1 manual and am not sure which setting you're describing....

What setting is that Bob, I must have missed something? Gain setup only lets you assign a gain level to each switch position. Just looked through my Z1 manual and am not sure which setting you're describing....
In addition to the presets, you can control the speed at which gain changes are made. For example if you had your presets 0,9,18 you'd probably want a slow change so when adjusting the gain while shooting you wouldn't see a sudden jump when you changed the gain.

I understand what you're saying, but HOW do you adjust that parameter? I don't see it in the menus. The only slightly related item might be the AE response time, but I thought that only worked with automatic mode.

Specifically, what menu choices do you need to make for this to happen?

I understand what you're saying, but HOW do you adjust that parameter? I don't see it in the menus. The only slightly related item might be the AE response time, but I thought that only worked with automatic mode.

Specifically, what menu choices do you need to make for this to happen? I think thats the setting and yes I assumed the same thing until recently.

From the Z1 manual (page 61)


AE RESPONSE
Select the speed used to adjust the exposure automatically in accordance with the brightness of the subject. [FAST], [MIDDLE], and [SLOW] are available.

I just fired up my Z1 and this was set at the default (fast). Flipping the gain switch produces a noticeable immediate jump in image brightness. I then set the AE response to slow and tried flipping the switch again. Absolutely no difference from what I could see.

I think this only affects automatic settings, so it's no help for those of use who prefer to keep everything on manual.

My apologies for misinforming you. I use the auto settings to verify my manual settings but oitherwise shoot manual on mostly fixed settings. I thought I was being a clever fellow by remembering the reference from the manual and having tried it. That one got past me.

From the Z1 manual (page 61)



I just fired up my Z1 and this was set at the default (fast). Flipping the gain switch produces a noticeable immediate jump in image brightness. I then set the AE response to slow and tried flipping the switch again. Absolutely no difference from what I could see.

I think this only affects automatic settings, so it's no help for those of use who prefer to keep everything on manual.

I tried it and it works for me in manual. set your pre set to 0, 18 to see the difference. when set to Fast it takes a second, Slow takes 3 seconds. although it seems to only effect increase in grain when i went from 18 down to 0 it took 1 second for either setting.

Even when shooting in full manual, the Z1 will still compensate ever so slightly for exposure. The effect is minimal and really only noticeable when panning/tilting from extremely bright to extremely dark areas and vice versa...and when the AE Response is set to medium or fast. Under these conditions, the screen will appear to instantly gain up or down just enough to be annoying and destroy your shot.

I recommend for most people that they set the AE Response to "slow" and forget about it.

Now, about gaining up and down smoothly...

Step 1
Open a picture Profile and set the AGC limit to your liking. For stage performances, I prefer 12db. Leave this picture profile on while shooting.

Step 2
Run everything in full manual, except for both the iris and gain.

Step 3
Set one of your assign buttons to Spotlight mode and turn it on.

Step 4
Set another one of your assign buttons to AE Override and turn it on.

The iris dial now acts as a single controller for both the iris and gain and will adjust them both in accord with each other as you ride this dial. Effectively, the dial is now controlling what you might call the "brightness" which equates to a setting between -7 and +7. As you "brighten" up the picture, the transition will be smooth and lag slightly behind the dial (by about two seconds or so) resulting in a higher gain setting without the noticeable "click" that you would get with the switch from L to M to H. (As an exercise, you can display the iris and gain settings on the LCD as you do this to see exactly how the two features work together.)

I greatly prefer this "semi" automatic method to full manual for stage performances with lighting changes drastic enough to require gain changes mid-performance. Although it at first sounds amateurish to rely on such a setting rather than go full manual, the smooth transitions between gain settings and the greater dynamic control afforded me trumps the one ill effect...that the camera will tend to slightly overcompensate for a 100% dark stage, The picture does not go haywire or anything like that during this time, but if the lights do come up suddenly for the next act, the picture will be a little bright initially (for a couple seconds) as it adjusts to the new lighting conditions. This effect can mostly be negated by riding the brightness down when the stage goes dark and then ramping back up as the lights come back up. It's really not that difficult at all. Plus, if you are using a less-than-veteran shooter, there is no better way to simplify the exposure process.

Alec Moreno
http://www.1Day1ShotProductions.com

Now, about gaining up and down smoothly...

Step 1
Open a picture Profile and set the AGC limit to your liking. For stage performances, I prefer 12db. Leave this picture profile on while shooting.

Step 2
Run everything in full manual, except for both the iris and gain.

Step 3
Set one of your assign buttons to Spotlight mode and turn it on.

Step 4
Set another one of your assign buttons to AE Override and turn it on.

May be I should try this setting for some night events. Thanks for the tips :)

Alec, that sounds like a clever solution. However, my performance shoots are fairly "mission critical" around here and there is no opportunity to repeat them. I think I will continue to rely on what has worked for me over the past few years in full manual mode.... at least I know all the "gotchas" there.

The iris dial now acts as a single controller for both the iris and gain and will adjust them both in accord with each other as you ride this dial.

This is an interesting tip, so I tried it out. It seems to do as you say, though I think I see a colour shift at the extremes. I almost thought it would make more sense to use the Back Light setting instead of Spotlight, cause we're looking to increase brightness in dark conditions, and the Back Light button should open the iris more to compensate for underexposed faces. But it didn't work.

So I tried Spotlight. I checked it out in the manual, but it doesn't say how it achieves its purpose. I'm guessing it reduces exposure a bit under the usual auto level? But doesn't that leave us with an unused ceiling of brightness?

(As an exercise, you can display the iris and gain settings on the LCD as you do this to see exactly how the two features work together.)

I can't figure out how you do this. When you put them on auto, the values disappear. If I recorded while I messed around with it, I could display the data code on playback. Is that what you mean?

Thanks a million.

...I almost thought it would make more sense to use the Back Light setting instead of Spotlight, cause we're looking to increase brightness in dark conditions, and the Back Light button should open the iris more to compensate for underexposed faces. But it didn't work.

So I tried Spotlight. I checked it out in the manual, but it doesn't say how it achieves its purpose. I'm guessing it reduces exposure a bit under the usual auto level? But doesn't that leave us with an unused ceiling of brightness?...
No, think of it this way. In a theatrical setting, there's a lot of dark and a few spots of light. But the auto-exposure of the cam wants to make everything a fixed average level of gray, so it will bring up everything, including all the black areas, until the picture averages that gray level, blowing out the highlights in the process. So SPOTLIGHT is designed to prevent it from doing that so the blacks stay black and people's faces aren't blown into white. Back light does indeed compensate for underexposed faces, but in a theatrical setting you're often dealing with OVERexposed faces. Unless your director is Boyd's nutjob who lit the actors with only two flashlights.

You can achieve the same effect just by shooting in full manual and riding the iris and/or gain and using your zebras -- in effect exposing for the faces and not the backgrounds. Or frankly you could set up a Picture Profile with AE SHIFT set to -3 or -4, which would prevent the cam from overexposing highlights in a dark situation. I just got back from a night soccer game tonight where the Zebras were going nuts all over everything with the cam set to auto -- I had to shift AE four slots down to get the exposure right.

Note that on the FX1, there are permanent hard buttons for BACK LIGHT and SPOT LIGHT rather than ASSIGN buttons.

But the auto-exposure of the cam wants to make everything a fixed average level of gray, so it will bring up everything, including all the black areas, until the picture averages that gray level, blowing out the highlights in the process.

Yes, I understand that, which is why I said Spotlight probably reduces exposure under the normal auto level.

I guess I was moving beyond the theatrical setting, and wondering if the tip would be useful for more general event work, much of which happens in low light. But does the technique leave us with an unused "headroom" of exposure possibility, because Spotlight is using a setting less than normal auto?

In a low contrast situation, probably. On overcast days I've experimented by toggling it off and on and all it does is make everything darker.... so whatever detail you might pick up in your highlights, you lose in the shadows.

Quote-
(As an exercise, you can display the iris and gain settings on the LCD as you do this to see exactly how the two features work together.)

I can't figure out how you do this. When you put them on auto, the values disappear. If I recorded while I messed around with it, I could display the data code on playback. Is that what you mean?
-End Quote

Yes, that is what I meant Vito. Also, like the the others have said, the Spotlight mode forces the "auto settings" of the camera to darken the picture to approximately where you and I would adjust the exposure for a dark stage. Without the spotlight mode, a pure auto approach would yeild an overexposed shot.
____________________

Boyd,

I know where you're coming from and I feel the same way in approaching my own shoots. Generally, I cringe at the thought of auto settings and I wouln't give up full-manual for the world...except for when I know that I will definitely have to adjust the gain while simultaneously acheiving a great continuous shot (say for a one-camera shoot). For this purpose, and for the occasional unseasoned second shooter, this setting is a charm and I really recommend that you investigate its potential and pitfalls.

I actually learned this semi-auto method on some free time I had to tinker around at a local dance performance. I had no intention of using the footage for anything but analyzing what its limitations were in this mode, so I was free to experiment like mad...and I did. I purposely over and underexposed shots, whip panned across the stage, compared similar shots to full-auto, and everything else I could think of doing. I now use it for paid shoots with comfort. Also, as I forgot to mention earlier, it's a quick and easy way to fine tune an unmanned camera's exposure for just about any lighting conditions.

Alec Moreno
http://www.1Day1ShotProductions.com

Looks like a good approach but does not work on the FX1 as the assignments are Z1 specific. I also miss the black stretch too!!! All things to look for on my next camera!!!

Ron Evans

Thanks, Alec, great info. Funny how you think you know your camera's options inside out, then someone comes along and says 'check this out.' There's always something to learn...

Step 1 Open a picture Profile and set the AGC limit to your liking. For stage performances, I prefer 12db.
Step 2 Run everything in full manual, except for both the iris and gain.
Step 3 Set one of your assign buttons to Spotlight mode and turn it on.
Step 4 Set another one of your assign buttons to AE Override and turn it on.

The iris dial now acts as a single controller for both the iris and gain and will adjust them both in accord with each other as you ride this dial. Effectively, the dial is now controlling what you might call the "brightness" which equates to a setting between -7 and +7.

I can use your tip on how to enable Spotlight. I can't understand why its not in the Picture Profile or the main menu. I've never really liked settings like Backlight or Spotlight, they're dumbed down consumer terms that don't explain what its really doing. I'd rather have something straight forward like an exposure compensation dial on the camera.

I've already tried something similar with limited success (auto with AE -7). Unfortunately, it still over exposed the faces, I needed more than -7. Your method doesn't increase the AE compensation rather it allows you to control it using the iris dial. It's not bad as long as the scene isn't too black. For a long shot of the entire stage, too much of the black background fills the frame for this method to compensate. The inherit weakness of auto (even with AE compensation) is you don't know what gain the camera is using. You can set a gain ceiling but it could be maxed out to let's say 12db for most of the performance.

Even when shooting in full manual, the Z1 will still compensate ever so slightly for exposure. The effect is minimal and really only noticeable when panning/tilting from extremely bright to extremely dark areas and vice versa...and when the AE Response is set to medium or fast. Under these conditions, the screen will appear to instantly gain up or down just enough to be annoying and destroy your shot
I've seen this before and I thought my eyes were playing tricks on me. I'm not really sure this is a good thing or not but its strange given the fact when you set it to manual you're expecting just that.