HI everyone, I'm a newb here and I need some help. Last I was involved in Video was in the Hi8 days early nineties. I want to do some more and have narrowed it down to these three camera's, the Sony HVR-A1U the HDR-FX7 or but not likely the Panasonic DVX100B. They are all somewhat older technology which makes them more affordable I guess and I realize they are all a compromise. Which one would have the best picture quality overall, which one has the best features package and which one has the best Bang for the Buck. I know about the audio limitations of the FX7 (I would add an XLR box w/audio control) but the rest is a but of a mystery, I have never seen more widespread results between reviewers on any camera? Both pro and private. The DVX100 has great potential even upressed to 720x1240 (HD) But beyond? and my concern about the A1U is that it might be too small for my rather large and arthritic hands. All the footage I have seen was on Vimeo and the exposure room and I am worried that it is not always fair to judge it from those types of down streams versus home HDV set. Any tips and opinions will be most apreciated. Thanks, Ed

Well, you've sure opened a can of worms here. You will likely get many strong opinions here -- that's what I like about this site -- advocating or denigrating each of those three choices.

I have eight Sony HDV cams spanning four different models, and if I could only keep one it would be, hands down, the FX7. And with the FX7 supposedly being re-introduced next month at a new, much lower, price, to me it is unquestionably the best bang for the buck as well.

I originally chose the FX1 over the FX7 for its heftier build and more solid feel, and now I have three FX1s and two FX7s... yet I hardly ever use my FX1s anymore. On my monitors, the FX7 is much sharper, has better autofocus, truer colors and even better low light (which I know makes no sense, what with the 7 having smaller chips, but the FX7 is much cleaner in low light with identical gain). And most people actually like the audio abilities of the FX7, given that there are no "pro" connections.

The Sony A1 is much beloved, but at their respective prices, unless the form factor of the HC1 is a critical plus for you, I think the FX7 is your best bet.

We have a very knowledgeable and experienced poster here who will undoubtedly weigh in, who just *hated* his FX7 and found it unusable in low light. But his experience was so opposite mine that I have to think he got a bad one -- or a series of them. Or else my old eyes are just going...

Another thought: If you can go up to $3000, and can wait a month or so, you might want to check out the upcoming Sony FX1000, which looks fantastic on paper and should be out the end of November. I will be selling my FX1s to buy one (or two).

Second vote for the FX7, at least of the three you mentioned. The A1U is an older design (not sure if it's older than the DVX100), I'm thinking the DVX is SD not HD since you mention uprezzing, and frankly trying to create info that ain't there never made the tinyest bit of sense to me...

Personally, I love the FX7 for the intermediate size/weight, the features of more expensive cameras, and if you know how to tweak it, it's about as good as any other HD cam in low light (no taking video of black cats in a dark room even if it is halloween!). For the $, it's a great deal - although there may be "better" cameras, realistically you've got to raise the budget to get to them.

I've downsized due to the economy (shooting SR11/CX12s heavily accessorized - small but incredibly good image quality for the $$), but wouldn't hesitate to recommend the FX7, though as already noted, there are new cameras that show some promise if you raise your budget (is that an option? what IS the budget?).

Remember that to edit HD in any flavor, you're going to need a computer with some ponies under the hood and don't forget to budget for that!!

If your total budget is high enough, the FX1000 and the Panasonic HMC150 both look like pretty nice cameras - since I've shifted to tapeless, the HMC150 intrigues me, Sony is sleeping in the lower end of the prosumer market and staying with tape, for reasons beyond me... but those are at least not so far up the foodchain that they are completely out of the question... figuring you're budget is 1500-2000 for the camera (more if you want to accessorize w/lenses, batteries and such), another 1000 for computer, less if you can upgrade, and a couple hundred for a decent editing/DVD authoring program.

Fill in the blanks a bit on the budget and your expected shooting situations and it may help us guide you to the right solution.

"Well, you've sure opened a can of worms here." I like to rock the boat a bit ;-) Thanks Adam and Dave, 2 strong endorsements for the FX7 right of the bat, not what I expected but I like it. let me answer a few questions that Dave asked, my budget was $2000.- (Canadian) but when I found out more about the A1U I upped the budget to $2200.- then looking again at a few more (used models) and reading more about the FX7 I found out that the FX7 is smaller and lighter then most and with the top handle would make a great candidate for me ergonomic wise (and that is an issue for me) reading a few more reviews, I had to include it so up the budget went. (I have $500.- for acces) But this is the max especially if I have to get a audio mixer/XLR unit and a descent mic (I hope to get by without for a while). I do have an almost new 2.8 Intel 24" Imac with 2GiG Ram and I will get the Final Cut Express editing SW. Adam you mentioned it yourself about the size of the FX1 it is a beast to hand hold and thank goodness to expensive for me ;-) I think the FX1000 will likely be of similar size also just a bit to much $. I will be using it for travel short films and nature documentary but purely for fun and hobby, so I can afford to compromise a bit. The one other reason the FX7 stood out for me is the highly rated 20X lens, the A1 would have to be fitted with a tele converter lens.
I am actually nervous about the A1U being to small for my rather large hands that tend to cramp around smaller things. It sounds like a great little camcorder. I would love to go for the Panasonic HMC-150 tapeless and all, but it is really to much $. The DVX 100B is a great unit and can now be had relatively cheap but I agree that upressing is not the ideal solution. Thanks a lot for the help so far, love to hear some more. Ed

I have a dvx100b and a relative new xh-a1, I think the dvx is superior in many way's compared to a fx7 but one and that's resolution. Especially with ntsc and working in 16:9 mode it doesn't look pretty on a big lcd screen because you even loose more vertical resolution. In pal country you get a bit more resolution but even downrezzed xh-a1 footage looks noticeably sharper when the lens is wide.

It also depends for what you will be using it for, if resolution is not such a big deal for you a second hand dvx will give you a lot of controll, xlr and 25p, a dvx has one of the best colors I have seen right out of the box, I still use it for paid jobs and clients often tell me how nice the colors look.

If you would use it mainly for the web, then hd is the way to go, you can get crystal clear footage with the h264 codec, the first video I place online from my xh-a1 had a "looking trough a window" look to it, that I never could have achieved with my dvx. The same should apply to the fx7. Even downconverting will still give you noticeably sharper images on a big lcd.

If I had to choose I'd also go for the fx7, it looks very similar to a vx2100 I had and that should mean you get the basic control you need but with much more resolution to work with.

Thank you Noa, exactly what I needed to hear about the DVX 100B, i suspected this but had no way to see it with my own eyes, the joys of living in the boonies. We have a 52" HDTV and it needs a pretty good picture to be pleasant to watch. So yes resolution is a big deal. We have a local troop of performers in town with whom we plan to do some short films and would watch those in peoples living rooms. Chalk up one more fore the FX7. Thank you so much, Ed

I'd find FX1 or Z1 in good condition instead of FX7, it's 1/3 CCD and FX7 is 1/4 CMOS,
if you put them side by side, you'll se the picture difference naked eye, that's what i did and went with FX1,
cheers :)

The DVX100 is fine for SD work but essentially obsolete in the era of widescreen TVs, unless you add an expensive anamorphic adapter to get a proper widescreen image. And the A1U is a single-chip camera which has limited potential for anything involving high contrast or low-light shooting. That leaves the FX7 as the best choice of the three cameras you mentioned, but I'd second the suggestion to save up for the FX1000 instead.

Not having XLR inputs on the FX series cameras is a bit of a downer, but someone pointed out to me that the level controls on XLR adapter boxes are arguably easier to use than on-camera controls. I've gotten by with XLR adapters for many years on both SD and now HD cameras, and the extra weight is a minor nuisance I've learned to accept.

... reading more about the FX7...I had to include it so up the budget went. Note that the new list price will be $1999 so it shouldn't require an increase in budget. If you wait a couple months it should be lower still.
The one other reason the FX7 stood out for me is the highly rated 20X lens, the A1 would have to be fitted with a tele converter lens.Yes, this is a huge advantage, particularly if you are doing sports... one that even the new FX1000 can't match (it's also 20x, but starts out much wider so you don't get nearly as much at the tele end). Also: the FX7 eases in and out of zooms very smoothly, while the FX1 (and I'm guessing the A1) doesn't. And yet another advantage: the FX7 shows all your camera data all the time in your LCD if you want it to, even in full auto, something none of my other cams do.
I'd find FX1 or Z1 in good condition instead of FX7, it's 1/3 CCD and FX7 is 1/4 CMOS,
if you put them side by side, you'll se the picture difference naked eye, that's what i did and went with FX1,
cheers :)I've done that as well, and there is indeed a difference, but shockingly, it's the FX7 that's much better in nearly all lighting conditions, even low light (night sports, theater). It makes no sense but that's how it is on mine, across multiple units, and they are all using identical customized presets. Go figure.

Just to throw a clinker in here....

I have a stack of Sony cams, from Digital 8, to VX 2000, to FX1. I love their solid build and ruggedness....

But in place of considering the A1U, have you considered the Canon HV30 ? I think you would get as good an image, and have 24p to boot. I have the older HV20, but I am continually amazed at how much image these $ 700.00 cameras actually pack.

The first scene of this film, family gathering for picture, and the interview was shot with a Z1, but the rest of the present day insert footage was the HV20. Check it out here:

Uniform Changes on Vimeo (http://www.vimeo.com/2102988)

Admittedly, you have to dress this camera up to look professional to impress in those situations that you need to, and there are control issues that you will have to learn to work with, but this camera also disguises nicely as a tourist cam in those situations you want to be unobtrusive.

I've done that as well, and there is indeed a difference, but shockingly, it's the FX7 that's much better in nearly all lighting conditions, even low light (night sports, theater).
well, that's not just mine oppinion :http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/digital-video-industry-news/129342-sony-unveils-hdr-fx1000-hvr-z5j-10.html, read from post #138,
Ed, take the blank tape, go to the store where you can try both, play with both cameras, put the footage side by side on your screen, i don't think it'll take you long to make a decision
cheers :)

Yes, as I said in my first response, there are a variety of opinions on both sides of this, and the posts you refer to are the same ones I was talking about.

But it is indeed solid advice to do a side by side comparison and see which best suits one's needs.

Wow I love all the help and the opinions, I'll reply in order of posts received. Buba, I actually looked at those earlier but it seems that most go for very high prices especially when I account for the lousy Canadian dollar (it dropped 25% in a week and a half and they say we don't have much of an economic problem). either way more then a FX7 would cost. Kevin I'd love an FX1000 but being retired and not much to save it would take a long time. I want something soon so I can practice for when I want it for my daughters wedding during a cruise in the Greek isles next spring. Adam and others who mentioned the price drop, I hope we'll see it here in Canada at the same time, that does not always happen but I will check on it with Sony.ca Chris, I don't want to diss anyone but I am not crazy about Canon color, I kind of felt the same about their still camera's. (I chose a Fuji S5) As far as 24p goes I don't think that is much of an issue since that can be achieved afterwards as well. (afaik) Buba and Adam, I would love to pop over to the store and do that but the nearest one is a four hour drive (one way) and they only have the A1U in stock and the nearest store that has both is 10 hrs (o.w.) I love living here but sometimes it sucks ;-) I really appreciate all the opinions and will include the FX7 in the short short list and leave the DVX 100B. I probably have to take that long drive. Best regards, Ed

Kevin you mentioned having used various XLR boxes, how much of a difference in Quality is there between phantom powered or non powered mic's ? there is quite a difference in price for the CX211 unpowered and CX231 phantom powered juicebox? Is there a big difference in microphone price maybe? Thanks , Ed

I'm not an audio expert, but I've been satisfied using standard Beachtek adapters with Sennheiser G2 wireless microhones. By the way, you might consider buying a used Sony FX1 instead of the other cameras you mentioned, as it uses slightly larger sensors. You can see examples of FX1 footage in the deck shots from recent episodes of "Deadliest Catch".

The FX7 only has 1/4" chips, doesn't it? I'd go for an FX1 if possible, or as somebody mentioned above, look for a used Z1. Just because the cameras have been out more than 2 years doesn't make them obsolete.

The A1U provides a nice image for a single chip camera, but it is, for me, a pain to use. First, it's a bottom-loader, which means you have to remove it from the tripod to change tapes. Second, it has that cursed touch screen, and just about everything you need to do is deep in the menus and cumbersome to adjust, especially audio. If you set it on automatic and are doing hand held run and gun type things, then it would be great. The quality of the image is excellent, better than you'd expect from a single 1/3" chip, but I find it very awkward to use.

The DVX100b looks good for SD, but it does not have 16:9 chips and we're rapidly becoming a 16:9 world, also an HD world. I'd stick with 16:9 chips and HD.

Thanks Kevin I like the idea of going wireless. I heard (and listened) to a recording test on the Juice box and they where quieter then the Beachtek, plus they are cheaper ;-) As far as the used F1X goes, I went through the Ebay listings again last night and they are consistently expensive for used units all though some had very few hours on them but by the time I convert to Can. $ they are all 1000 or more over my budget and some FX7's were more then they are new in the store??? Then there is the size the FX7 is smaller and lighter then all the other except for the A1U which is why I looked at it in the first place. so that gives me the middle of the road in $ size and Quality, I would be happy with that. Thanks for your help Kevin

Ed -
You've gotten a pretty good set of non-biased advice, and I stilll would lean towards the FX7. I've owned the FX1 and the Z1U - they are noticeably bigger and heavier, which you indicated was a consideration - the FX7 is just enough smaller and lighter to make it a bit more practical for the sorts of use you describe.

For a short time I had the Z1 and the FX7 side by side, the image differences are not huge, and the only potential downside is the smaller CMOS vs the larger CCD - you can read up on that and decide, but as the price differences may be too much, it may be moot. You CAN pick up used FX1's on rare occaision for around what FX7's are currently going for, but presuming the re-issue press releases/prices are correct, a new FX7 will be a great deal.

The FX7 is a great cam for the price point, and any criticism must be balanced with that. Used there's always the "deal" that comes up here and there, but you don't have the time luxury to wait around too long, and I don't know that you're OK with "used", some people are, some aren't.

I never owned an A1U, but I've owned a gaggle of HC1's from when they first came out. I'm thinking that the extra added mic module and all have to make it less than balanced, although the HC1 was a nice handling camera (if you could overlook bottom loading and touch screen). The practical fact is it was the FIRST HD camera in the prosumer space, and the technology is aged enough that it really won't cut it against the current crop of cameras when it comes to image quality. Handling wise it beats all of them, but IQ is not able to keep up in lower light (shooting in good light most HD cams do phenomenal). Don't get me wrong, 1/3 CMOS single chip can provide amazing image quality, and even the HC1 will knock your socks off when compared to SD, but put it up against the current generation or against the FX7 (about one generation back), and you might be a bit disappointed.

If someone said "grab a camera and shoot" and the FX7 and A1U (and any of the others mentioned for that matter) were all laid out on a table... I think I'd go for the FX7 without hesitation - big 3.5" screen, dual VF and LCD simultaneously, easy control layout with the buttons at your fingertips, easy to drop the shutter to 30 to get a smidge more low light, not too big, nice focus assist function (meaning you can leave the cam in auto, but you can adjust manually at the same time), and so on. Some of those functions are only available on the Z1U... at WAY more $$.

As far as wireless, you might want to check on conflicts before you buy anything - I've had several venues that used so much wireless gear that it wasn't practical to try to even try to figure out which channel was "open" - we live in a wireless world, and a small dedicated recorder with a lav is the weapon of choice for many of the wedding/event guys here (I myself have droped wireless except for a couple of the Sony bluetooth mics that work ONLY with their small cams with the AiShoe...), for the reason noted above. You mentioned Greece, and I seem to recall something about problems with wireless in Europe... may want to search the DVi forums or post in the audio section for more info.

No Kidding Dave, a great bunch of people here. Yes size is important but it does not hurt that the Fx7 rates good for IQ as well. As far as the A1U goes I saw some stills compared to the Z1U and they were pretty close and the reviewer said he frequently cut A1 shots into his Z1 productions, but it is getting older and "behinder" and I believe the FX7 is worth the extra $ even if it does stay the same here. I just found a news letter from B&H talking about the reintroduction of the FX7, SONY'S HDR-FX1000 BREAKS THE MOLD | B&H Photo Video Pro Audio (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/find/newsLetter/HDR-FX1000.jsp) And they already show the new price on the cat. page, of coarse for me it is still $2400.00 by the time I get from them or here but I'll give it a few weeks and see if we get a break to. (The $ is also bouncing back a bit) patience may be rewarded. On the wireless, thanks for the heads up on the conflict issue, I don't very often work in busy urban events but it is a concern when I do. What do you think of the blue tooth sound quality? is it worth the $? but then the FX7 does not have the Aishoe anyway. And I will look into the Euro/wireless issue.
One more thought, what kind of tape do you use, do I need to use $30 HDV tape? Or will $5/6 DV tape do. Thanks a lot.

Handling-wise, when comparing the FX1 to the FX7 I think there is one thing you need to consider; the zoom range. The FX1 goes wider but is shorter at the tele end with a 12x vs 20x on the FX7. Personally, I've found the wider view at the wide end of the FX1 to be more useful than the higher magnification on the tele end of the FX7. If you are a wide shooter like me, you may need to get a wide adapter (0.8x) for the FX7 and this will significantly affect the superior handling balance of the FX7.

Also I prefer the FX1's placement of the LCD to that of the FX7 and heard a lot of people who felt the same. The HC1/A1's menu-based controls will take a lot of practice and getting used to. I never liked it. You mileage may vary.

Best
Wacharapong

One more thought, what kind of tape do you use, do I need to use $30 HDV tape? Or will $5/6 DV tape do. Thanks a lot.
Tape rules:

Don't waste your money on HDV tapes. There is no difference in picture quality between these and regular MiniDV tapes -- it's all digital. Sony Premiums are fine and can be had online in bulk for a little over $2 each.

Tape manufacturers often say that HDV tapes are built to higher standards than regular MiniDV tapes. That's frequently claimed but so far no one has ever presented any statistical evidence, anywhere, that this is so.

Even if it is true you need to do a cost-benefit analysis to decide if overpaying for all your tapes is worth the reduced chance of a dropout, especially if such dropouts are easily cut around (as they are in all the shooting I do). If it's a once in a lifetime event and you want to maximize your chances of having every frame be perfect, then the more expensive tapes may be worth it for you.

When I first started shooting DV I used the TDKs available at Costco for about $2.50 each. I used a couple of hundred without a dropout or any other problem. Later I switched to the Sony Premiums because even with shipping they were cheaper. I’m on my fourth case of 100 and have had maybe three dropouts total in two years. Costco now sells the Sony Premiums instead of the TDKs.

Don't mix tape brands. Sony uses a different lubricant than others and switching could gum up your heads. If you do switch brands, run a cleaning tape for 10 seconds and then pick one brand and stick to it.

Never re-use your tapes. They should go through your camera exactly twice: once when you shoot and once when you capture.
Handling-wise, when comparing the FX1 to the FX7 I think there is one thing you need to consider; the zoom range. The FX1 goes wider but is shorter at the tele end with a 12x vs 20x on the FX7.
This is an excellent point and one you should consider. Note that the FX7 is nearly twice as long at the tele end as the FX1 (390mm vs almost 750mm in 35mm equivalent). For me it makes a big difference in shooting sports.

Wacharapong Chiowanich, Good point indeed about the zoom range, for me this is actually an attractive one living in the mountains and often finding myself in places where I need as much zoom as I can find (I do still photography of birds of prey and other wildlife) of-coarse there are times that I would like to have a bit more wide angle Which I can find with a $200.- wide conversion lens while a good tele converter can easily cost up to $1000.- So for me this will work. The Lcd placement may very well be an issue for those who have experienced the new layout but since I have not (my last camcorders where 2 Sony V5000 Hi 8's) I don't think it will border me. The A1U drawbacks you mention are the reason why I am still looking and realized that I discarded the FX7 from the list to soon, I had read a 2 reviews which hammered al the short comings of the FX7 but left out all the great features. Now I am strongly leaning to the FX7 al though I still need to feel how it handles and see if it is not to big or heavy. I don't think it will be. Adam, Thanks for the Tape info, that makes me feel a lot better I was worried about the ongoing cost of tape and if i would have to resort to reusing them, but at those prices I can use them once and archive them. good to know about the no mixing brands to, I actually always tried to stick to those rules with my previous VHS and Hi 8 equipment. Bill Pryor, I think I failed to respond to your post, I appreciate your point on the advantages of the FX1 sensor and features but for me it is to big and to expensive, even for a low hrs. used one and the Z1 is even more. I know it is a compromise but this is not to make money with and I have to stay reasonably within budget, Nonetheless thanks for your insight. Best regards, Ed

i have an fx7...a1u...and a dvx100a not b...fx7 hd is my fave of the 3 and shoots sd also if you need it and the fx7 sd footage i feel looks better than the sd footage i get out of the dvx100a...i like all 3 of course for different reasons but if i had to just keep 1 it would be the fx7...

Keep in mind that it's the HC1 that is really the closer equivalent to the FX7 than the A1 (since neither of the first 2 have black stretch or XLR connections). New HC1s still show up occasionally on EBay, for around $1000.

I have the HC1 and FX7 and the pictures cut well together. The FX7 has the edge on image quality and handling - however I carry the HC1 with me far more frequently because it is so portable. It is a bit fiddly with its menus - so the key consideration between the two (and the A1) really come down to: priority on portability or on handling? Since the FX7 is lighter than the Z1 and other similar camera, it is not too shabby in portability itself. Remember to factor in a Beachtek with both the HC1 and FX7.

If I was interested in 24P (I'm not) on a tight budget I might go with the HV30 (though it has no Lanc, darn it!).

If you could bump your budget 2-3X, and aren't detered by avhcd, then right now the Panasonic hmc150 does look tempting (slightly lighter than the FX7 with a wider 28mm-equivalent lense and lots of nice shooting modes)

Sony premium tapes are cheap and I've never had a problem with them... so you're safe there. As far as the size/weight of the FX7, it's not too bad, and it's the smallest cam you'll get that has any kind of usable manual controls nowadays. It handles quite well overall, I was hoping Sony would come out with something solid state memory based but similar size and controls (sort of an answer to the HMC150)...

The old TRV900 would be a good model for Sony to dig up and follow, basic controls, but all easy to access... in a "slightly larger than 'handycam' size"... but that's not likely to happen anytime soon.

They seem to either like to make super compact cams with little control (don't get me wrong,the little AVCHD cams are great fun to shoot and work quite well), or big really expensive cameras... not much in the "in-between" realm.

The vision I think many of us share is something with big glass and decent size sensor(s) for good low light, but compact so it's not so noticeable or a pain to lug around, and basic easy to access buttons and knobs to adjust the manual functions... and around the 2K price point. Sadly this vision seems to escape the manufacturers entirely...

Sounds like another strong vote for the FX7 from Mathew. Graham I can't quite see the HC1 being closer to the FX7 then the A1 It still being so much newer, in production and readily available but I'm not very familiar with the HC1 other then what I've read. If I had to choose between the A1 and the HC1 it would not be a hard choice even though it is a bit more you get more, A1 all the way. I can see your point on portability though. When you mention the FX7 and portability and then factor in a Beachtek or Juice box are we still ahead of the FX1 or the Z1? 24P is for me also not much of an issue, I wouldn't mind having it to experiment with but that's it. I do want Lanc though since plans for a jib crane are in the making. If I could bump my budget I would be buying the HMC150 with out a doubt, even if it meant hiring a assistant to cary it ;-) just kidding. Dave also mentions it, and later when you (Dave describe the perfect camera, in my mind you describe the HMC150 "MINI" maybe with a little longer glass. My first Video was a JVC (can't remember the model#) first portable color home unit with a 7.5lbs camera and a 24lbs cassette recorder over the shoulder, I lugged it around for 6 weeks around Europe and 1yr around N.America. I know I'm not that tough anymore, but all of the choices of today are a very far cry from those early days. The FX7 sounds like the cam for me and since the worry I had about expensive tapes is once again put aside by you I have no excuse to spend to much and buy the HMC150. I do however still plan to go to Calgary (closest town where they have 3 stores to shop and compare) to hold the A1U and the FX7 in my hands to make sure I do the right thing size wise. I don't believe it would be a better option but where does the V1U fit in ? I thought it was the same size as the FX7 just more features and $, but no one has mentioned it. I have not found one on ebay or elsware for less then $3400.00 Can. so it is really not an option for me but I was curious about it. Also running a single Camcorder is there a big advantage to still have Time code? like the A1U has but not the FX7? I didn't think so but I have never worked with it. Best regards, Ed

No problem, but be aware the HC1 and A1 are the SAME physical camera except for the XLR module and firmware. In Sony's line-up the HC1 parallels the FX7, and the A1 parallels the V1. The HC1 and A1 were released about the same time.

Grahm about covered it, HC1 is the "consumer" version of the A1U (when you mention "A1" I think there is some confusion with the Canon "A1" - which is more in the FX7 class...)

So too, the FX7 is the "consumer" version of the V1U.

In both cases there are firmware options for more control of the video parameters in the "pro" versions, and "better" audio (the XLR module for the A1U and the XLR inputs for the V1U, which incidently ELIMINATES the onboard stereo mic of the FX7.). The actual "guts" are otherwise supposed to be identical... mainboards/sensor blocks/lenses and probably the major portions of the shells pop out of the same molds for the most part. IOW, basically the same camera with different capabilities in the firmware...

I'd be sure to call ahead on BOTH the A1U and the FX7, as they may not be stocked just anywhere... NEITHER would be at any of the "big box" retailers anywhere around me... I'd have to drive an hour + I'd guess, and I'm not that far out of Los Angeles...

Also running a single Camcorder is there a big advantage to still have Time code? like the A1U has but not the FX7? I didn't think so but I have never worked with it. Best regards, Ed
All DV and HDV cams record timecode, which is necessary for editing. Some higher end models allow for external input of timecode and syncing multiple cameras to the same timecode.

Your lovely V5000s (I had six at one point, but they all died... <sniff>...) didn't have this feature, not even the Sony RC timecode offered on some of their other Hi8 analog cams.
Keep in mind that it's the HC1 that is really the closer equivalent to the FX7 than the A1 (since neither of the first 2 have black stretch or XLR connections).
...In Sony's line-up the HC1 parallels the FX7, and the A1 parallels the V1.
I think I know what you mean here but it has the potential to be confusing. The HC and FX are parallel in that they both lack pro features, but I wouldn't say the HC1 has much in common with the FX7 other than that they are both "consumer" level. They really are quite different cameras in form, design and function.

Briefly:
A1U=Pro version of the consumer HC1 (1-chip CMOS)
V1U=Pro FX7 (3-chip CMOS)
Z1U=Pro FX1 (3-chip CCD)
Z5U=Pro FX1000 (3-chip Huge 1/2" CMOS)

Adam, I just meant that the HC1 is more like the FX7 than the A1 is like the FX7. But you sum it up nicely.

Yes I should have made it clear which A1 I was referring to, having been confused by this my self, I was talking about the Sony as you figured out. Graham, I was not aware however that the HC1 was the same as the A1U basically, I thought they fundamentally differed. Dave, I will call ahead for two of these stores. I know however that one has these in stock, I will still check before I make the ten hr. drive for sure. Two of these stores cary a lot of pro and prosumer equipment. The reason why I asked about the timecode Adam is that I thought that the FX7 did Not have timecode, but you lead me to believe that it does is that right? 6 did you say 6 V5000s..... Wow, I did love that camera but yes it did not have timecode and I too wished it did would have saved a lot of time. I will have another read on the FX7 specsheet I may have missed this. Thanks, Ed

The reason why I asked about the timecode Adam is that I thought that the FX7 did Not have timecode, but you lead me to believe that it does is that right?
Again, all digital formats inherently have TC. It's part of the spec, I believe, so that may be why it might not be mentioned in individual cam specs and descriptions. Even Digital 8 does, I think....

God, what a cam the V5000 was. How I wish there was an HDV equivalent, but my understanding is that Sony killed it during Gulf War I because it was cannibalizing sales of the more expensive Pro cams... news organizations would buy them by the dozen because they were practically disposable.

The Sony HVR-HD1000U has the same form but isn't even close in terms of real controls (real switches and buttons). But for the price it's a great cam if it's what you need. I'm not sure it would be right for your situation, though.

Isn't the HD1000 just an HC7 (single CMOS) in a pseudo-shoulder mount shell?? Thought it still used the touch screen interface as well, making it rather fiddly for manual control. May as well buy an HC9... not a bad camera, but probably NOT what Ed is looking for...

Again, if Sony would take say the SR11/12 (which is a significant jump from the 7 series sensor block), put buttons and firmware so you could access WB, shutter speed, aperature, gain, and maybe a couple custom preset buttons and put a proper focus ring on it... wouldn't be THAT much larger, and would be a welcome addition.

As it is the control wheel and button aren't bad, and suffice if you know how to use the AE shift to "rough" the cameras preset exposure into the right range, and the "exposure" to fine tune via the knob/wheel.

I suppose it's marketing and market segmentation that prevents such a simple "semi-pro" camera solution - most consumers wouldn't know what to do with the extra buttons (thus the big blue "EASY" atrocity...), and most "pros" seem to want a "big box" for show. It shouldn't be too much to ask for something akin to the old TRV900, with HD... probably not going to happen though... sigh.

Isn't the HD1000 just an HC7 (single CMOS) in a pseudo-shoulder mount shell?? Thought it still used the touch screen interface as well, making it rather fiddly for manual control. May as well buy an HC9... not a bad camera, but probably NOT what Ed is looking for...
Yes, that's exactly what it is, and unless you specifically want/need that form factor (I do for some of the work I do), you're right about the HC9 being a better choice. But I've always hated small handycams for handheld work.

Thanks Adam, I found some other spec sheets that do mention time-code, so I think you are right in saying that it may not be mentioned sometimes because it is part of "standard" HD spec. I never heard that Gulf war connection story, very interesting and I can see why they chose this camera as a field camera. I paid about $1800.00 US for mine while in Canada they where about $3200.00 Can. What a deal. No the HVR HD1000U is not what I want way to big and not nearly the camera the FX7 or the FX1 is from what I've seen even the HDR A1U Is a better and certainly more portable choice. So Dave you got that one right. My daughter just bought an SR12 and al though I like the pictures there is still something missing in them and it is actually to small for my liking. also no basic direct controls at all and like Adam says to small and unstable to do good handheld work, you always try to make it bigger with shoulder supports and the like to make it usable. I have another question but I'm not sure If I should start another thread? Someone tell me if I do please, it is about what software to use, I've got a new 24" iMac and was going with the Final Cut Express. Is that enough or should I spend more right now to get FCPro or Adobe premiere pro? I'd rather keep it simple and lower cost but I don't want to waste my money on something too simple. Thanks, Ed

Sounds like you have a pretty thorough understanding of all your candidates.

In terms of editors, why don't you try out FCE and see how you like it? I bet it does everything you need, at least for now. At some point you could upgrade to Pro or an Adobe product if you needed the extra features. And I believe you could actually import an FCE project into FCP if you did upgrade at some point.

But go on over to the editing forums and do a little reading... tons of very sincere opinions there too....

Thanks to all the great help here I do feel I have much clearer picture of what I should be looking at and what makes sense for me. In the mean time I have done a lot of reading and clip watching on the net, also of models above and below what I think I want and need and all together it is much more palatable then a week ago. It was largely a matter of playing catchup from the early nineties which was the last time I did anything in video. Also pleased you think FCE is a good starting point, This will also be easier on my wife's health $ and I can sort of stick to a budget. This is where I am new, digital editing but I know that the tools on all levels are fantastic and that I will catch on. I guess its of to the editing Forum, thanks to everyone for all the help, hopefully someday soon I can help some others. Best regards, Ed

And I came home with the HDR FX1000 from Sony, with some acces. and plenty of tape. That was about a month ago and sofar I am stoked with this camera. We have an older (5yr) HD 52" Toshiba and the video looks great on it, I just started doing some editing on FCE and it is slowly coming together. Thanks all for the help.
Ed

Just read this thread while I was hanging out in a basement jail courtroom (my day job is interesting). I have been curious about the FX7, but hesitant because I shoot most of my commercial stuff with the FX1000 in 24pscan and 30pscan.

I was cutting til really late last night on a small commercial project and I can't say enough great things about the FX1000. The shoot was an interview with a famous artist and a group of "how to" videos (final project was about 40 minutes in length and will be outputted in mpeg for the client). We shot in 24pscan and I tweaked all the particulars manually. I used my big video light kit and lit the scene well.

I used a NADY wireless lav and it produced excellent sound (redunant sound is usually captured by my Zoom, but I've lent it out to a filmmaker bud of mine, so, I had to rely on the cheap NADY). As an aside, I shot for years with the DVX and it was really great, but don't buy anything SD. After 50 or more uses, I can say, the wireless NADY's rival my wired EV using my phantom Beachtek!

Anyway, Adam and fellow posters: Will the FX7 match the FX1000 as a good b-camera even if I shoot with the FX1000 in 24pscan? Progressive Scan is still interlaced and I'm editing in interlaced, of course. The format is automatically digestable in my NLE.

If I open the shutter on the FX7 (like to 1/30) and I use the cinegamma settings on the FX7, will there be a pretty decent meshing of the two video images in the editor?

For TV, I often shoot 30pscan and it is great too. I own the HD1000U and an HC9. I've shot for TV and commercial work with both those cameras, but they are never as sharp as the FX1000. And you can tell in the editor and on the big screen! It is a noticable difference.

I'm considering selling my HD1000U and buying a FX7. Seems like it would be better optics and controls and the cinegamma would be a plus. And I gotta be honest, I bought the HD1000U for looks. Sometimes I take it to a shoot and open the bag and leave it there as a prop. It is funny, because my experience is my HC9 is just as good and with form factor even better. I use the HD1000U for a transfer now mainly. And good luck finding a tripod for it!

But I have to also be honest, I've shot pretty video with the HD1000U, I'd be lying otherwise.

Adam, what's the profile settings on the FX7? Do they match or are similar to the FX1000?

Finally, no one has an FX7 to handle and play with around here in Atlanta. Wolf camera had one and I went there and they had sold it, ha! Sony Style does not carry it in store.

I've just sold my Canon HV30 and am now grappling with the decision of what camera I should get to replace it.

I liked the HV30 but didn't like its lack of manual controls.

I'd really like a Sony FX1000. The Panasonic HMC 150 also looks like a nice camera, but my current PC is relatively underpowered and takes a very long time to render AVCHD files. Neither camera really fits into my budget, being at least $1500 ~ 2000.00 more than I'm looking to spend. Then again, I'd love an EX1 (hey, wouldn't we all love to get one?)

I thought of getting a Sony HD1000U to save some money, but found myself not liking its low-light performance. In fairness though, all single-chip CMOS cameras suffer from this malady to one degree or another, so it's a relative thing. If Vimeo footage was anything to go by, I also found myself not liking the graininess or the lack of warmth in the images it produces.

The FX7 looks like an attractive option - it would give me most of the features I'm looking for in the FX1000 at a price I can afford. I've seen footage coming from it (again, on Vimeo) and it's a real mixed bag. A lot of it looks grainy. Also interlaced (as you would expect with a 1080i camera), with blown-out highlights. And some of it looks fine. I realize
a lot of this may have to do with choice of codecs, shutter speed and failure to make use of the camera's ND filters in bright light.

Here's a couple of samples of FX7 footage I really like from the standpoint of smoothness, clarity and overall image quality, as well as colour space:

Sony FX7 on Vimeo (http://www.vimeo.com/2522158)
SimbaCat on Vimeo (http://www.vimeo.com/3422653)

The other things stopping me from getting an FX7 are the lack of 24p, 30p and Cinetone modes.

The one camera that I've taken a real liking to lately (mostly because it offers a fair chunk of what I'm looking for and really fits into my budget) is the Sony A1U. The only issues I have with the camera are its bottom-loading of tapes (minor), the fact that the manual focus wheel doesn't work well according to some reports, and its small size. I'd have no hope of ever getting wedding or corporate work with a camera this small, simply because people have been conditioned to believe that big, shoulder-mount cameras necessarily equal big quality video.

Still, the image the A1U can produce in good hands is simply stunning, and I'd dare say better than the Canon HV30. Take a look at this sample:

High Sierra HD - Backpacking the John Muir Trail on Vimeo (http://www.vimeo.com/1845374)

So, if I don't end up getting an A1U, my next best bet would probably be a used FX1 or Z1.

The FX7 is probably the best bang for the buck today, although it doesn't do everything and isn't spectacular in low light. It does have Cinematone gamma but, as you said, lacks progressive.

If you're serious about a used FX1, there are a bunch of them for sale in our classified section, including two of mine. Email if interested.

I have an FX7 and an HC1 (the prosumer version of the A1u). The FX7 produces a sharper image with better color, is no worse in low light (neither are stellar of course) and is physically much nicer to handle - less '"cramped feel", with more physical buttons for control.

(I have a Beachtek that I slip on the bottom when I need XLR connections....)

I'd look hard at a Panny TM300 before buying an A1U.