View Full Version : Aspect HD


Pages : [1] 2 3 4

Brad Hawkins
August 23rd, 2003, 02:28 PM
According to their website Aspect HD is now shipping and I would love to hear any reviews from those who have purchased the software. I am especially interested to find out if their codec will not only with Premiere, but with After Effects and other programs.

Thanks in advance,

Brad

David Newman
August 23rd, 2003, 03:44 PM
I also look forward to the reviews, in the meantime I can tell you more about the codec.

CFHD -- the FOURCC code for CineForm HD Codec -- has three system freely components: A DirectShow Decoder and Encoder and a Video For Windows (VFW) Decoder. This means this codec can be used with any tools that supports DirectShow or VFW. So yes to After Effects and hundreds of other tools.

John Eriksson
August 27th, 2003, 08:18 AM
Does Premiere Pro have native support for HD? And if so what do we need Aspect HD for?

David Newman
August 28th, 2003, 09:25 AM
Premiere Pro just like Premiere 6.5 supports HD resolutions in Video for Window mode (VFW), however this mode is not real-time, and Premiere includes no solution to convert the transport stream file to the required AVI format. Aspect HD is like a hardware accellerater card for your editing software -- like Matrox RT-X100 or a Pinancle Pro One -- yet these cards only accellerate DV video, Aspect HD accelerates 720p HD video (without plugin hardware.) So you can use Premiere 6.5/Pro alone to edit HD, making the editing experience a lot more labor intensive (all rendered) and requiring the use on uncompressed (or HUFYUV compressed) AVIs that use a very large amount of disk space (30 - 55MBytes per second.) Aspect HD files average around 8MBytes per second, with an image quality, and multi-generation abilities, way above MPEG2-TS. There is a whole lot of information about this on the CineForm web site.

Kevin A. Sturges
August 28th, 2003, 11:31 AM
How does Vegas Video work with HD? Is the display realtime?

David Newman
August 28th, 2003, 12:55 PM
Like Premiere, Vegas Video does natively support HD resolutions, however just like Premiere, Vegas it is un-accelerated. Vegas will get you a slow-ish preview (frames dropped) if you do much processing on the HD video, pacticularly for mulitple stream (2 or more.) i.e. a dissolve will not be fully real-time. There are mixed reports if it can handle transport streams directly, although it can handle MPEG-2 editing (although not in their trail version.) Video Vegas can't directly export as MPEG2-TS, so you can't output your final HD project to D-VHS without other (unknown) components. Aspect HD is accelerated (far more real-time) and can export to MPEG2-TS. Bascially Vegas can be made to work, but not as well as a solution designed for HD in real-time.

John Eriksson
August 28th, 2003, 01:15 PM
Will aspect HD and Premiere send the scrubb HD signal back to the camera for downconverting and viewing directly on the tv while editing? Or will I edit using the small application window?

David Newman
August 28th, 2003, 01:25 PM
Unfotunately encoding MPEG2-TS on the fly would kill real-time performance. Instead we recommend using a Matrox P750 or Parhelia to provide a real-time external monitor preview. Just what you need.

Chaim Bianco
August 28th, 2003, 02:07 PM
david,


a few questions:

i assume the aspectHD codec if YUV 4:2:2. if so, how is it that youve managed to get the data rate below that of the huffyUV, which from what i understand cuts very close to the bone of uncompressed datarates. is your codec lossless?

are the dissolves/transitions performed in yuv or rgb colorspace?

will aspectHD work on premiere 6.5 in Win2K? -- or is winXP it?

can avi files encoded with your codec be read and written in other programs like aftereffects?

John Eriksson
August 28th, 2003, 04:06 PM
<<<-- Originally posted by David Newman : Unfotunately encoding MPEG2-TS on the fly would kill real-time performance. Instead we recommend using a Matrox P750 or Parhelia to provide a real-time external monitor preview. Just what you need. -->>>

Ok, thanks!
But will it do "on the fly" downencoding of HD -> TV without the realtime preformance than anyways? By the way, is the realtime you are talking about the renering of fades, wipes and sutch effects? Because I donīt tink that I need that kind of stuff anyhow..

David Newman
August 28th, 2003, 04:13 PM
Chaim,

The CineForm HD Codec (CFHD) is visually lossless not mathematically lossless. Yes it is 4:2:2. We will provide mathematically lossless version for film and broadcast applications but felt this wasn't necessary for HDV given its MPEG-2 roots.

All real-time effects and filters are performed in YUV colorspace.

WinXP only.

CFHD AVI files can be read into nearly all Windows based packages has it has both DirectShow and VFW decoding support. This includes After Effects. For writing CFHD AVI files, DirectShow support is required. After Effects doesn't have DirectShow exporting ability, so I would recommend using HUFFYUV or Uncompressed for export. The resulting file can be converted into CFHD again using Premiere.

David Newman
August 28th, 2003, 04:24 PM
<<<-- Originally posted by John Eriksson :
Re: Maxtorx P750 ...

Ok, thanks!
But will it do "on the fly" downencoding of HD -> TV without the realtime preformance than anyways? -->>>

Sorry I don't quite understand the question. HD->TV conversion for the Matrox cards happens in real-time while we are doing everything else. It is a feature of the Maxtrox cards. If the editing software don't do real-time the TV out will not be real-time. Is that what you were asking?

<<<--By the way, is the realtime you are talking about the renering of fades, wipes and sutch effects? Because I donīt tink that I need that kind of stuff anyhow.. -->>>

It is that and much more (the stuff you do need.) The flashy stuff like multi-channel motion video, title ovelays and 3D Page turns etc. is all real-time, but so are the necessary tools. Your bread and butter cuts, dissolves, color correction, and 3-point color balance controls are also completely real-time. Professional work using the JVC camera will require standard and 3-point color correction, that is typically very slow on non-real-time systems.

John Eriksson
August 28th, 2003, 04:39 PM
1. Does Aspect HD handle/accelerate the use of the SD recording mode that is found on the JY-HD10U too, and itīs high framerate?

2. Is this how it works?:
*************************************************
I connect the JY-HD10U to the firewire port, launch premiere 6.5/pro, select "capture movie", select my camera, "start recordig", and Aspect HD will make avi files in the 1280*720 res from the *.m2t input ?in realtime? from the camera..

Than I start editig, adding sounds etc. And when Iam all done I select export to tape and select my cam and aspect hd will record my new edited product back to the tape in *.m2t format ??
or I take the footage and make a downconersion of it to 720*576 and turn it in to a DVD.
*************************************************
Is that right? Does Aspect HD change the premiere program like a plug-in or how does it work?
Please explain! I really need to know this before I buy.
Is this a typical work process from start to finish David? (I hope you understand what I mean, you have to excuse my bad English)!!

John Eriksson
August 28th, 2003, 04:42 PM
Yes!
That sounds great! Maybe I will need all that realtime anyways!! /j

David Newman
August 28th, 2003, 05:16 PM
<<<-- Originally posted by John Eriksson : 1. Does Aspect HD handle/accelerate the use of the SD recording mode that is found on the JY-HD10U too, and itīs high framerate?-->>>

No. The current version of Aspect HD is for 720p30 modes only (this is a limitation of Premiere 6.5 as doesn't support 60 fps timecode.) Future versions under Premiere Pro may support the 480p60 mode.

<<<-- Originally posted by John Eriksson : 2. Is this how it works?: ... -->>>

We do not use the internal capture utility. We have a tool that is run independently to Premiere called CFCapture. This tool has multiple purposes: it captures *.m2t files (with scene detection), converts them to AVIs, and allows *.m2t export back to DVHS or the camera. Once material is captured and converted (today that is a two step processes, in about two weeks time this will be a one-step automatic process) the AVIs can imported into Premiere.

Note: The one step capture and conversion process, was not ready for the first shipped batch, but it will be a free download form the web site.

When Premiere launched, select the CineForm Aspect HD editing mode for real-time work. Then you are editing as you would with any accelerated product (except this time it is HD.)

When you are done, you can export your time-line to MPEG2-TS 720p30 for DVHS or Window Media 9 HD, or anamorphic DVD, all export options are available. Very flexible.

John Eriksson
August 28th, 2003, 05:42 PM
Thank you(!) for clearing that up for me.. That was so helpfull and it sounds alright. But I am sure looking forward to use the "one step capture and conversion process" tough !

*I hope that you develop support for 480p60 mode under PREMIERE PRO soon, and I hope that it is "free" to all registrated users as an upgrade or something. I am now really considering to buy this product. The price is pritty high for a software product, but if it does all that you say that is capable of than it is quite cheap!

Do you get the software package by mail or is it only download?

David Newman
August 29th, 2003, 09:24 AM
Yes John,
the software does do what I have said (do verify your system requirements at cineform.com) so we have always thought our price offers excellent value -- I hope you agree. The software is shipped via 2-day upon a web based order. The package includes a printed manual, CD software, and your license key code. It comes with a full 30 day money back guarantee. So you can check it out without risk.

Peter Moore
August 29th, 2003, 10:29 AM
Vegas can DEFINITELY handle the transport streams directly. I downlaoded footage from the site here and it imported it like any other video.

John Eriksson
August 29th, 2003, 02:56 PM
Can I get a smooth 24fps slowmotion by shooting in the SD mode? I mean because of itīs high framrate (60fps)?

David Newman
August 29th, 2003, 03:13 PM
Currently Aspect HD doesn't support the 480p mode, but supporting 60p as a slow motion source is an excellent idea that I hope we can implement in the future.

John Eriksson
August 29th, 2003, 03:31 PM
Thank you! Very nice!

Brad Hawkins
September 13th, 2003, 05:57 PM
According to the Cineform website there will be a premiere pro version of aspect HD shipping in the next few months. My question is, if the capture and conversion to AVI takes place in a stand alone app, then why wouldn't it be possible to import the converted AVIs into premiere pro now?

Basically I was thinking about trying out Aspect HD, but I am running Premiere Pro and I don't want to pay $1200 for something that I cannot test immediately.

Brad

David Newman
September 13th, 2003, 09:21 PM
You are correct, the AVI generated with the Aspect HD capture tool will work in Premiere Pro in the VFW mode. The down side is that you don't get multi-stream real-time functionally without CineForm's video pipeline that Aspect HD adds to Premiere 6.x. This is the module that is being ported to Premiere Pro. If you don't want to buy Premiere 6.5, you can download the trial verison of Premiere 6.0 (30 day trail), and install Aspect HD on that (with a small trick.) This way you can do real-time editing for you complex sequences then export to Pro when needed. Of course once Aspect HD for Premiere Pro is complete the new application is very nice.

Darren Kelly
September 14th, 2003, 08:42 AM
What's the trick to using Premier 6.0

I wouldlove to know this one.

DBK

David Newman
September 14th, 2003, 10:58 AM
Install Premiere 6.0 and rename the directory to Premiere 6.5. Aspect HD will then install correctly. Unfortunatley not all the real-time features of Aspect HD can work in 6.0. The Motion control panel is only supported in 6.5, but everything else works like RT color correction, titles, transparency, page peels, transitions etc. Of course this is only a temporary solution as the Premiere 6.0 expires after 30 days, you would then need to purchase Premiere 6.5 to continue editing (or Pro when that is available.)

Steve Mullen
September 14th, 2003, 03:33 PM
David,

Can you talk more about the need for Matrox graphics for Aspect. It sounds like it is an imortant part of the equation.

Also the disk system. The Applied Magic system arrived in the biggest PC I've ever seen! (OK, it's just big.)

Let's assume one goes with a 2.8GHz HT P4. How many RT streams can one get by stripping (XP) a Primary Slave and a Secondary Slave? For example, a Dell.

Now lets assume one buys a MB with a RAID controller. How much does this increase the number of streams?

(Assuming 7200RPM drives. recommendations?)

David Newman
September 14th, 2003, 04:38 PM
<<<-- Originally posted by Steve Mullen : David,
Can you talk more about the need for Matrox graphics for Aspect. It sounds like it is an imortant part of the equation.-->>>

Not needed but a video card that can be a simultaneous NTSC preview is a very handy thing. The Matrox Parhelia and P750 do this. Excellent for color correction as PC monitors don't match the color response of TV. This a good idea for SD production as it is for HD production.

<<<-- Also the disk system. The Applied Magic system arrived in the biggest PC I've ever seen! (OK, it's just big.) -->>>

Yes the Applied Magic PC case is bigger than it needs to be, although there is room for more drives (with lots of good airflow.)

<<<--Let's assume one goes with a 2.8GHz HT P4. How many RT streams can one get by stripping (XP) a Primary Slave and a Secondary Slave? For example, a Dell.-->>>

Dell vs custom, the main issues are always memory speed, disk speed, and cpu speed. A Dell with 800Mhz memory, RAID (hardware or software striping), and high 2.xGHz cpu will do very well. Software striping will work almost as well has hardware RAID (sometime better -- see below.) A good Dell with software RAID will likely squeaze out 4 RT streams. Although I would recommend 3 drives (1 for the system/software, 2 drives for video RAID.)

<<<--Now lets assume one buys a MB with a RAID controller. How much does this increase the number of streams?-->>>

Motherboard based RAID is typically a lot better than a PCI RAID card. I have tested PCI based RAID (33MHz style) that was slightly slower than striping in software a good pair of motherboard based ATA133 drives. Serial ATA motherboard RAID is better than motherboard ATA133 RAID. The Applied Magic system uses Serial ATA motherboard RAID -- it should be blazing on the disk speed. On a 3.2 GHz 800MHz DualDDR Alienware box, with Serial ATA RAID we can comfortably do five streams (we squeezed out 6 at SIGGRAPH.)

Steve Mullen
September 14th, 2003, 05:38 PM
<<<-- Originally posted by David Newman : <<<-- A good Dell with software RAID will likely squeaze out 4 RT streams. Although I would recommend 3 drives (1 for the system/software, 2 drives for video RAID.) -->>>

That's why I assumed the Primary Master was the Dell bundled drive. Probably use it for audio too? Secondary Primary would be DVD drive--or maybe Secondary Slave if the old wisdom is true. :)

Since HT is available for 2.8, 3.06, and 3.2 P4's, but the costs are significantly higher for > 3GHz, I'm wondering if:

2.8 > 4 streams
3.06 > 5 streams
3.2GHz > 6 streams

I get the sense that 6 streams was really pushing it. :)

Let's say one wanted a 100% reliable 4 streams and one used software stripping-- is a 2.8GHZ HT good enough. Or, should one go for 3.06GHz?

Of course, I expect one will need to replace the Dell's graphics board.

Actually at $4K for everything, the AM seems a good buy. I'd probably build my own, but I'm getting asked by budget sensitive HDV users. And, Dell is available world-wide.

Maybe you've tested one?

David Newman
September 14th, 2003, 06:34 PM
<<<-- Originally posted by Steve Mullen :
...I'm wondering if:
2.8 > 4 streams
3.06 > 5 streams
3.2GHz > 6 streams
-->>>

No, it doesn't quite work that way. Drive speed is a slightly bigger player than CPU speed. There maybe only half a stream difference between 2.8 and 3.2 GHz, yet poorly configured drives may result in only 2 streams where 5 might have been possible.

<<<-- I get the sense that 6 streams was really pushing it. :) -->>>

You bet. :) Remember a $100k+ AVID is only claiming 2 HD streams, so everything over that is damn cool.

In Aspect HD to can do a lot of things (filters/transitions) per stream, so the theoretical and practical will differ depending on what is happening in the production. For benchmarking, we construct a timeline like this (a test for real-time 4 channel mix and playback):

http://members.cts.com/crash/d/dan/temp/TimeLine4channels.jpg

Only using a single dissolve with several overlayed videos with transparency gives a good indication of straight-line speed of Aspect HD (and the PC it is running on.) This test works the drives the most. Real world examples would have color correction, titles, audio with filters and maybe some motion filter applied, the number of video clips may reduce as you work the CPU and memory more.

<<<-- Let's say one wanted a 100% reliable 4 streams and one used software stripping-- is a 2.8GHZ HT good enough. Or, should one go for 3.06GHz? -->>>

3.06GHz CPUs are old and have the slower memory bus. You will do better with the new 2.8 (or 3 not 3.06) running the dual DDR memory (effective 800Mhz memory speed.) Yes a 2.8 will do 4 streams if setup correctly, and if you don't do too many RT filters.

<<<--Of course, I expect one will need to replace the Dell's graphics board.-->>>

Other than the preview advantages of a tripple headed card like the Maxtrox P750, all modern video cards will work fine. Old cards with a "shared memory" achiteture greatly reduce system performance -- avoid these.

<<<--Actually at $4K for everything, the AM seems a good buy.-->>>

The AM system is between $5-$6 including Aspect HD, drives etc, still a good deal. A PC savy person could build a killer system for less.

<<<--I'd probably build my own, but I'm getting asked by budget sensitive HDV users. And, Dell is available world-wide.
Maybe you've tested one? -->>>

Not yet of the latest Dells, but I have zero doubt that they will work well if they have the fast memory and fast drives.

Jonathan Sarno
September 14th, 2003, 07:19 PM
<<<-- Originally posted by David Newman :

>Not yet of the latest Dells, but I have zero doubt that they will work well if they >have the fast memory and fast drives. -->>>

Dear David,

I'm seriously interested in Aspect HD but I need a laptop system, since I do a great deal of travelling for my productions and need to edit on location.

What laptop(s) do you recommend?

I'm considering the Toshiba Satellite Notebook P4. It's multi threading

" Toshiba Satellite Notebook with IntelŪ PentiumŪ 4 Processor 2.8GHz, Model: A25-S3072" and has a 17 inch display.

Appreciate any of your your opinions on editing HD with a laptop in general, including internal and external drives that are reasonably portable and any experience with particularly laptops.

David Newman
September 14th, 2003, 08:23 PM
Jonathan, laptop HD editing in real-time can be done.

Issues to keep in mind:

1) Get a Laptop that uses a desktop P4 rather than a mobile P4. The mobile P4s can slow the memory system down to conserve power. A good laptop example with a full P4:
http://www.alienware.com/system_pages/area-51m.aspx

2) New laptops may have 800Mhz FSBs (Front Side Buses) yet the memory system is still commonly 266Mhz. This will limit the number of real-time filters that can be applied, and effect the number of real-time layers. This will change in the next couple of months (maybe weeks), with the release of true 800MHz memory laptops.

3) Disk speed. There are laptop that have multiple drives for software RAID, this is the best solution. See:
http://www.1beyond.com/products/laptops.asp
Firewire drives are only so-so due to the data-rate capacity of 1394a. 1394a will limit the best firewire drives to 2 (sometime 3) streams.

If all you need are dissolves, color correction and a motion title or two, any modern workstation class laptop with an external 7200rpm firewire drive will do.

Otherwise wait a few weeks and get a multidrive system running with a 800Mhz memory system.

Jonathan Sarno
September 14th, 2003, 09:01 PM
<<<-- Originally posted by David Newman : Jonathan, laptop HD editing in real-time can be done.

Thanks for the prompt replay but what about the Toshiba Satellite laptop?

I can hold off for a few weeks if need but what about this computer.

Have you or anyone at aspect tested it?

Jonathan Sarno
September 14th, 2003, 09:09 PM
Otherwise wait a few weeks and get a multidrive system running with a 800Mhz memory system. -->>>

What companies will come out with the computers described above?

Also....what about the voodoo computers?

David Newman
September 14th, 2003, 09:45 PM
<<<-- Originally posted by Jonathan Sarno : <<<-- Thanks for the prompt replay but what about the Toshiba Satellite laptop? -->>>

It should be a solid dual stream system when used with an external firewire drive.

<<<-- Have you or anyone at aspect tested it? -->>>

CineForm is new and small company so we will not be able to test for performance on every PC model (no one does.) We have tested on a large cross sequence of systems in the office and beta tester systems, so we have a good idea how well each calls on PC will perform.

David Newman
September 14th, 2003, 09:49 PM
<<<-- Originally posted by Jonathan Sarno : Otherwise wait a few weeks and get a multidrive system running with a 800Mhz memory system. -->>>

What companies will come out with the computers described above?

Also....what about the voodoo computers? -->>>

All good PC companies will be releasing faster systems with the 800MHz memory. Voodoo will likely be a leader here.

The Voodoo M600 is very close with RAID 0 drives, but the memory achitecture is not the new one yet.
http://www.voodoopc.com/systems/advanced.aspx?t=1&p=190

Steve Mullen
September 14th, 2003, 10:18 PM
When you say streams to you mean streams of video, or video plus titles.

I assume that most folks would want 2 color corrected video streams with transitions between these 2 streams.

On top of this they want real-time scolling titles.

Sounds like a 2.8 is fine for this. Right?

And it sounds like 2 ordinary ATA133 7200rpm drives in a software RAID would support 2 streams. Right? How about 5400rpm?

I note in the Reviewers guide that capture and conversion are NOW being done in 2 steps. Will the computer need to be more powerful to handle a one pass mode?

David Newman
September 15th, 2003, 09:21 AM
<<<-- Originally posted by Steve Mullen : When you say streams to you mean streams of video, or video plus titles.-->>>

Only counting the video clips as title overlays are a lot easier. It is possible to have a couple of video channels with five or more simultaneous titles.

<<<---I assume that most folks would want 2 color corrected video streams with transitions between these 2 streams.-->>>

All systems meeting the minimum requirements for Aspect HD can do this.

<<<--On top of this they want real-time scolling titles.-->>>

A motion title yes, a scrolling multiple page title no. Aspect HD accelerates many of the Premiere's features, unfortunately the Premiere titler creates scrolls in a way that can't be efficently accelerated. If you create credit scrolls in single pages, those pages can be motioned in real-time for the same final result.

<<<--Sounds like a 2.8 is fine for this. Right?-->>>

Yes.

<<<--And it sounds like 2 ordinary ATA133 7200rpm drives in a software RAID would support 2 streams. Right? How about 5400rpm?-->>>

The RAID of 7200rpm drives should support 4 streams (a single 7200 rpm drive can support 2.) As for 5400rpm drives, these are hard to find now, but I guess they are about 20%-30% slower.

<<<--I note in the Reviewers guide that capture and conversion are NOW being done in 2 steps. Will the computer need to be more powerful to handle a one pass mode? -->>>

No, we are just finishing up this very clever capture solution that enables one step capture and convert even on slower PCs. If a PC is too slow for real-time conversion, an intelligent buffer allows the conversion to occur in as near to real-time as possible. Capturing an one hour tape might take 70minutes to complete capture AND conversion, eliminating any need for the separate conversion step.

Brad Hawkins
September 15th, 2003, 11:49 AM
David, earlier you told Steve that the drives were more important than the CPU speed. I was wondering if you could expand on this.

For example, right now I'm running a system with dual AMD 2200 MP and the capabitlity for motherboard raid config. Would the fact that I have 2 processors and hardware raid offset the lack of CPU speed?

Brad

PS- thanks for answering all our questions, hopefully it will pay off with a few sales for you guys!

David Newman
September 15th, 2003, 12:05 PM
Brad,

You system would would probably have sufficient CPU resources but it would suffer a little from poor memory speed. AMD hasn't been keeping up with Intel in the memory architecture. Your system will probably handle two streams reliably.

The best performance occurs when good memory speed (533MHz or better 800MHz) is meet with good CPU speed 2.5GHz (or greater), and good drive speed, two 7200rpm drives on a RAID 0.

Brad Hawkins
September 15th, 2003, 12:11 PM
Sounds good. And if I decide I need more streams later I guess I can always upgrade.

thanks for the quick reply.

Brad

Jonathan Sarno
September 15th, 2003, 02:01 PM
<<<-- Originally posted by Brad Hawkins : Sounds good. And if I decide I need more streams later I guess I can always upgrade.


"The best performance occurs when good memory speed (533MHz or better 800MHz) is meet with good CPU speed 2.5GHz (or greater), and good drive speed, two 7200rpm drives on a RAID 0." - David Newman

The question is: (and please excuse me if they are not phrased correctely as I'm not fully up to speed on different hardware configuration/capabilities)

Will it possible to upgrade to 800Mhz? I think not.

Also:
David, you mentioned that the external firewire drives can support less streams then the internal drives, particularly in regard to laptops but some computers are upgrading from firewire 400 to the faster 800. Will this effect the number of streams in a positive way?

If money was no object what desktop configuration would you personally purchase for Aspect HD? What laptop configuration/model would you purchase?

And lastly how much drive space will an hour of HD DV take up, using Aspect?

David Newman
September 15th, 2003, 02:30 PM
<<<-- Originally posted by Jonathan Sarno :
Will it possible to upgrade to 800Mhz? I think not.
-->>>

The requires a new motherboard, CPU, memory replacement -- about $800 worth of changes to an existing system (and far amount of work.) This assume you have all yours drives, a good video card, monitor(s) and Windows XP.

<<<--David, you mentioned that the external firewire drives can support less streams then the internal drives, particularly in regard to laptops but some computers are upgrading from firewire 400 to the faster 800. Will this effect the number of streams in a positive way?-->>>

Yes, if there are RAID solutions that use IEE1394b (i.e. s800), the drive performance will be very good.

<<<--If money was no object what desktop configuration would you personally purchase for Aspect HD? -->>>

Either upgrade a box from Alienware or VoodooPC (add a Maxtrox P720 and drives), or go will a completely integrated system like HD Cinema from www.applied-magic.com.

<<<--What laptop configuration/model would you purchase?-->>>

I'm still waiting for the faster systems. They only days away (I just need comfirmation before a can say who will be selling them.) We are arranging to test these new systems.

<<<--And lastly how much drive space will an hour of HD DV take up, using Aspect? -->>>

About 30GBytes per hour using the Cineform HD AVI codec (CFHD.)

Jonathan Sarno
September 15th, 2003, 02:51 PM
About 30GBytes per hour using the Cineform HD AVI codec (CFHD.) -->>>

That's reasonable, considering it's hi-def but I shoot documentaries and work with high shooting ratios - l0 to 1 minimum.

Is Aspect considering or any other company for that matter, considering a low res offline low res-online version, like Apple has with the JPEG format.

I'm able to get 25 hours of low res on my powerbook G4, which is great when you are shooting on location.

David Newman
September 15th, 2003, 03:04 PM
<<<-- Originally posted by Jonathan Sarno :
Is Aspect considering or any other company for that matter, considering a low res offline low res-online version, like Apple has with the JPEG format. -->>>

CineForm's focus is on-line real-time HD editing. I imagine that there will be competitors that my use the low quality proxy file to edit HD. Those tools don't yet exist for HDV content.

Steve Mullen
September 15th, 2003, 10:43 PM
<<<-- Originally posted by Jonathan Sarno : About 30GBytes per hour using the Cineform HD AVI codec (CFHD.) -->>>

Is Aspect considering or any other company for that matter, considering a low res offline low res-online version, like Apple has with the JPEG format.
-->>>

4HDV supports this type of editing because uncompressed simply is not feasible for most of us. It requires 300GB per HOUR of source.

At a 10:1 ratio, you would need terabytes!

Using 4HDV you need only 1.25GB per hour.

Jay Nemeth
September 16th, 2003, 02:36 AM
A couple questions about the Matrox P750. If I understand correctly, it will downconvert the 720/30p signal to NTSC 480/60i to be viewed on a 16:9 capable NTSC monitor? Is this simply a conversion of one of the "would be" rgb monitors into TV scan rate?

My next question is, could one of the monitor channels be driven at progressive 1280 x 720 with a 60hz refresh rate and feed a true HDTV monitor that accepted RGB? Would it be actual HD video with the proper color gamut, or just a facsimile of a "full screen" computer monitor signal?

I hope these questions make sense. I'm just trying to see if there is a way to scrub and see the actual color corrected image with full detail accurately and in the way it will look when it is output to DVHS.

Jay

David Newman
September 16th, 2003, 09:42 AM
<<<-- Originally posted by Jay Nemeth : A couple questions about the Matrox P750. If I understand correctly, it will downconvert the 720/30p signal to NTSC 480/60i to be viewed on a 16:9 capable NTSC monitor? Is this simply a conversion of one of the "would be" rgb monitors into TV scan rate?-->>>

The Maxtrox P750 correctly downconverts to 4:3 NTSC (S_Video) displays via letterboxing, or it can output to an native 16:9 capable NTSC display.

<<<--My next question is, could one of the monitor channels be driven at progressive 1280 x 720 with a 60hz refresh rate and feed a true HDTV monitor that accepted RGB? Would it be actual HD video with the proper color gamut, or just a facsimile of a "full screen" computer monitor signal?--->>>

The DVI outputs of the P750 would be same a the computer monitor -- I think. I'm unsure if there are differences between the DVI on HDTV and the DVI output from the Maxtrox card. You should email Maxtox for details.

Jay Nemeth
September 20th, 2003, 02:32 AM
David,

I'm trying to understand the RAM speed requirements. I am not finding RAM listed as 1066 RDRAM and only finding DDR rated at 400mhz. Do you get the 800mhz DDR rating because you use 2 channels of 400? Where does PC2700 fit into the whole mix? Is that fast enough?

Are 7200 RPM drives that are ATA 100 OK, or do they need to be SATA?

I'm not very computer savvy unfortunately.

Thanks,

Jay

David Newman
September 20th, 2003, 10:55 AM
<<<-- Originally posted by Jay Nemeth : David,
I'm trying to understand the RAM speed requirements. I am not finding RAM listed as 1066 RDRAM and only finding DDR rated at 400mhz. -->>>

1066 RDRAM is now out I guess (last year fastest memory.) If you have a PC 6-18 months old it might be using this RAM -- it is still pretty fast -- effective 533MHz RAM.

<<<--Do you get the 800mhz DDR rating because you use 2 channels of 400? Where does PC2700 fit into the whole mix? Is that fast enough? -->>>

You are correct, 800MHz is the effective speed of dual 400MHz DDR. These days except no less than Dual DDR 400 on an 800MHz FSB (Front Side Bus.) This is very common now -- not too hard to get. PC2700 is effective 333MHz RAM.

<<<--Are 7200 RPM drives that are ATA 100 OK, or do they need to be SATA? -->>>

SATA is only slightly better if you are running a RAID control off the Intel 875 chip set (this is the best today.) I don't have that in my PC, so I have two ATA100 7200rpm drives on a motherboard RAID 0 that does me fine.

<<<--I'm not very computer savvy unfortunately.-->>>

It changes all the time. All the above was new to everyone a few months ago.

Jay Nemeth
September 20th, 2003, 05:49 PM
So, if I'm building a box from the ground up, should I use PC3600 ram since it's a little faster? Or is there a limitation because the FSB is 800mhz on the processor?

I already have a 200 gig 7200 rpm drive, if that is enough space for me, could I go get another 200 gig and do a RAID 1 to mirror and backup? Or is the RAID 0 a neccessity? How about RAID 0+1?

Also, does Aspect HD support batch capture like Premeire would if it was doing the capturing?

And lastly, does the digitizing retain the original timecode from the camera?

Thanks in advance,

Jay