View Full Version : Soft Video, Not at all happy


Scott Hayes
October 16th, 2008, 12:35 PM
now that i am in the middle of editing my first production with the EX1, i can say video from my Z1 kills it in terms of focus and sharpness. Now, I purchased this camera used, and to my knowledge it was serviced by Sony, has the firmware upgrade, and shouldn't have any BF problems. I guess it does, and I need to do the calibration. I guess I should have kept my FX1 a bit longer.

Paul Cronin
October 16th, 2008, 12:43 PM
Scott it must be in the preset, camera settings, or camera problem since the EX1 is a much better picture then the Z1 from experience. The board statement that the Z1 kills it in terms of Focus and Sharpness is just not true.

What preset are you using and let us know the other settings?

Gints Klimanis
October 16th, 2008, 12:48 PM
I saw an immediate improvement in image quality with the EX1 over a Z1. With the EX1, there is negligible blockiness around fast motion. Though, I have to comment that if you're used to focusing the Z1 a certain way (I liked to use the Push-Auto function on the run), you'll be disappointed with the EX1 equivalent. The EX1 has all of these auto-assist focus functions even in "manual" mode. I'm using the Peaking function much more often.

There are some Picture Profiles that will improve the look of your video (I like the Phil Bloom presets), but you should see an immediate difference out of the box. How are you viewing your video to determine whether it is soft?

Scott Hayes
October 16th, 2008, 12:49 PM
my camera came to me with Phillip Bloom's settings, so I left it on that. I think I need to reset everything, and dial them in from scratch. I shoot mostly weddings, so presets for those would be best. I do notice when I engage ND2, focus is off.

Steven Thomas
October 16th, 2008, 12:51 PM
now that i am in the middle of editing my first production with the EX1, i can say video from my Z1 kills it in terms of focus and sharpness. Now, I purchased this camera used, and to my knowledge it was serviced by Sony, has the firmware upgrade, and shouldn't have any BF problems. I guess it does, and I need to do the calibration. I guess I should have kept my FX1 a bit longer.

Well, please post a framegrab. This will show us the issue.
Also, the EX1 hits not far from 1000 lines of horizontal resolution. This provides excellent detail. If you're not seeing this, send it back for repair.

If you feel that EX1 is not good enough, you can easily sell it for good $$

Just read your follow up post..
Your back focus sounds out.
Version 1.05 and on was to offer better focus compensation when using ND filters.
Just perform the FB (Flange Back) setting yourself in the service menu. It's easy.
There is plenty of how to do it your self posted here.

Matt Davis
October 16th, 2008, 12:57 PM
I do notice when I engage ND2, focus is off.

Here's the difference before/after doing the Back Focus on an EX1:

Untitled Page (http://www.mdma.tv/ex1/fb.html)

I think you're going to be very happy...

Dean Sensui
October 17th, 2008, 12:30 AM
Scott...

What's your f-stop?

Anything beyond f8 or f11 will start to look soft.

Scott Hayes
October 28th, 2008, 11:23 AM
now that I am into this wedding, here are some comparison grabs. i will post the Z1
first, the EX1 second. I did the FB procdure, but have yet to shoot anything to check it out.
Seeing this makes me regret selling my FX1, should have left well enough alone.

Perrone Ford
October 28th, 2008, 11:37 AM
Dude, your camera is broken. Get it fixed. This shouldn't even be close. My EX1 would have to be focused 3 feet short for it to be that soft.

Buba Kastorski
October 28th, 2008, 11:45 AM
Seeing this makes me regret selling my FX1, should have left well enough alone.

hey Scott, easy to fix,
sell EX1 , you'll get two FX1's :)
I don't know man, i used to have Z1, still have a some footage shut with it, there is no camparison between two

Scott Hayes
October 28th, 2008, 11:49 AM
yeah, as you can see from my sample, my Z1 kills it. Do you recommend it a trip to Sony, or do the FB procedure again?

Steve Phillipps
October 28th, 2008, 11:54 AM
It kind of looks like different detail settings on the 2 cams? The EX image, while softer, actually looks nicer to me, the Z1 looks really oversharpened. Have you turned the detail setting down a lot?
Steve

Perrone Ford
October 28th, 2008, 11:55 AM
yeah, as you can see from my sample, my Z1 kills it. Do you recommend it a trip to Sony, or do the FB procedure again?

Let Sony fix it. Trust me, when it's working right, it's like looking through a frigging window. Best handycam image I've ever seen. Bar none.

Scott Hayes
October 28th, 2008, 12:04 PM
this camera had Phil Blooms settings on it, and I was shooting with those. The Z1, my assistant was using, shooting on auto, out of the box settings.

Gints Klimanis
October 28th, 2008, 12:33 PM
Here's the difference before/after doing the Back Focus on an EX1:
Untitled Page (http://www.mdma.tv/ex1/fb.html)

I think you're going to be very happy...

Exposure differences aside, the difference in sharpness is greater than what I'd expect at these distances. Was the backfocus several feet?

Steven Thomas
October 28th, 2008, 12:36 PM
Could you provide a better comparison?
The color balance and overall look are so different, I'm not sure about the question.
Also, the Z1 image has a lot of artifiicial sharpening over the EX1 image you provided.
Although the EX1 shot does not look that good in the example, I find the Z1 to look
really harsh due to the sharpening. This screams video.

If you do not like the EX1, why hold on to it. Just sell it.

If it's not a back foucs issue, there might be something else wrong with your camera.
It's certainly hard to tell from one frame.

Would you consider this EX1 image soft?:
http://www.aerialsfilm.com/stevet/vlcsnap-76842.png
I shot it with NO artificial enhancement (sharpening)

Tom Roper
October 28th, 2008, 12:46 PM
There are 3 issues:

1.) sharpness (detail setting) is ON for the Z1 and off for the EX1.
2.) more depth of field in the Z1 pic means it was probably using a stopped down aperture
3.) The EX1 is shooting in its lower resolution HDV mode SP 1440 x 1080.

Comments:

See the halo'd outline on the hand and wrist on the Z1 image? That's excessive artificial sharpening being applied to the image. My personal opinion is the softer EX1 image is more professional looking in appearance. But if you want it to pop, Phil's film-like preset is probably not the best choice. You also still have the option to shoot full HQ 1920 x 1080 mode.

You've left a lot of chips on the table, if sharpness is your goal. You have many options to make it zing. To start with, go to the last post (mine) in the EX1 picture profile recipes (one of the sticky threads at the top), and use my detail setting. Then choose gamma std3, then for matrix choose normal or standard, +4 on the saturation.

One last note, if you are right in the face of your subject, the minimum focus distance on the Z1 is about 1/2 inch, on the EX1 it's several feet unless you switch macro ON. You may have been too close to your subject.

I owned the Z1. It was a great cam back in the day, and still holds it's own by any measure, but the EX1 image is seriously more detailed.

Khoi Pham
October 28th, 2008, 12:46 PM
Different angle from that example, the Z1 has some side light, that will enhance details, there is no way the Z1 can be sharper, but if you are not liking it at all, we can do a trade, I will buy you a brand new Z1 and you will give me your EX1(-:

Steve Phillipps
October 28th, 2008, 01:02 PM
Steven, that's the sort of still I was extracting from my brief look at an EX, it's absolutely stunning! Sharp as is not out of focus, but not video sharpened, I thought the best looking image I'd ever seen on any video camera.
Steve

Scott Hayes
October 28th, 2008, 01:06 PM
i am not sure of the sharpen settings on the Z1. since I have had it, never messed with them. I love the EX1, i really couldnt think of going back to tape. the stuff i shot was shot in SQ mode, to match my Z1. Here is a quick grab of a shot I did in HQ60i, with PP4 and NOT phil bloom, i did the FB procedure last weekend.

Scott Hayes
October 28th, 2008, 01:10 PM
Tom, thank you for your post! this is exactly the kind of info i needed. i am looking at video I just shot on my 1080P Sony Bravia, and damn, i am smiling now.

Steven Thomas
October 28th, 2008, 03:04 PM
Steven, that's the sort of still I was extracting from my brief look at an EX, it's absolutely stunning! Sharp as is not out of focus, but not video sharpened, I thought the best looking image I'd ever seen on any video camera.
Steve

Thanks Steve.
I'm actally amazed with the EX1. But, like camera and video, sometimes you get that magic moment.