I'm supposed to produce a cosmetic commercial. I've been studying a lot of print media and the norm is this pearly white background. sometimes light blue. Anyone ever lit one? Looking for pointers for creating the most flattering light. Skin must look smooth and perfect. I'm figuring I will do it with a greenscreen.

Make sure you don't get any green reflection on to the skin if you are using green screen - it's not a very flattering look.
You would probably be better off with a white cyc and add a little blue light to it. A blue background helps make skin tone appear warm and glowing.
For the subject use large reflected/bounced light

Make sure you don't get any green reflection on to the skin if you are using green screen - it's not a very flattering look.
You would probably be better off with a white cyc and add a little blue light to it. A blue background helps make skin tone appear warm and glowing.
For the subject use large reflected/bounced light

Is the reason to use a white cyc instead of green the spill?

Why go through the extra steps of green screen?
If you need it on a white background just shoot it on a white background.

Why go through the extra steps of green screen?
If you need it on a white background just shoot it on a white background.

Because it creates many more options.

and headaches.

and headaches.

What kind have you had Gary? I don't have too much experience with it.

If your talent is not moving too much (screen is only 7x7) and is not wearing glasses, the ReflecMedia ChromaFlex system is small, light and a complete no brainer, ANYONE can obtain perfect keys with no heat, quick setup and no spill or reflection of green onto talent. About $2,500.00. I use one every week, works great.

Downside is if talent is wearing glasses, you see the green reflection of the ring light in their glasses and its a PITA to fix, although we do it all of the time.

Dan

I'm supposed to produce a cosmetic commercial. I've been studying a lot of print media and the norm is this pearly white background. sometimes light blue. Anyone ever lit one? Looking for pointers for creating the most flattering light. Skin must look smooth and perfect. I'm figuring I will do it with a greenscreen.

Step 1: Hire a stunning model around 12 years old (pre-acne stage is critical) so you START with a base of flawless skin.

Step 2: Hire a professional makeup artist who REALLY knows what they're doing. (If they're really, really, really good, you can actually hire a 20-something model, cuz they'll know how to make a 20 year old look like she has 12 year old skin!)

Step 3: Hire a REALLY good lighting director, gaffer, and grip. Listen to what the LD tells you they need. And if he or she says they need a two 6 by silks, a 10 inch long strip of Alcoa aluminum foil and a slice of Wonder wheat bread, shut up and GET them a two 6 by silks, the foil, and the bread.

Step 4: Get out of everyone's way.

That's pretty much the recipe I'd use in that kind of situation.

FWIW

:)

...downside is if talent is wearing glasses, you see the green reflection of the ring light in their glasses and its a PITA to fix, although we do it all of the time.

Dan

How exactly do you fix that reflection? I have simply desaturated the reflection, which helps... but it's no fix. I'm curious what your solution is.

Green screen is not is not a fix but in fact a tool to be used only if you need to replace the background. As the posts from Dan and Bill have indicted green screen add the model must be carefully crafted.
My suggestion is to pay all of your attention to lighting your model and making your product (the cosmetic) look absolutely perfect. After all, the background is a background and you shouldn't draw attention away from your product/model.

How exactly do you fix that reflection? I have simply desaturated the reflection, which helps... but it's no fix. I'm curious what your solution is.

Hi Robert:

I am in the middle of doing this on a show about Asian American film stereotypes that I am producing for Paramount. Two of our four interviews we shot on greenscreen wore glasses. The way we we have been fixing it is to use a travel matte of white or light gray that is tracked in a layer behind the talent's head.

If you don't do this, you will have a hole in the glasses that will show through to whatever your BG element is. So we add another layer with the white/gray, just behind the talent's head, motion track it to make sure that it doesn't peak around the edge of their head as they move and then do a separate matte pass to key through to the white/gray. In this way, the reflection ends up looking like a light reflection. If you do it right, it is pretty seamless and organic looking. It is just a PITA because of motion tracking and rendering the whole thing out, tweaking it. It helps if the interviewee isn't moving their head all over the place.

I have been shooting tests using green-foam backed material that www.filmtools sells and lighting that up with two of the Flolight 500 LED lights. Tests so far have shown that it produces a better looking key than the ChromaFlex, but it also requires a LOT more room to do it. It takes longer to setup and requires more gear. So basically, without glasses, still love the ChromaFlex. With glasses, need to use the LEDs and light up a real greenscreen. If we have room, which often times we don't.

Dan

Hi Robert:

I am in the middle of doing this on a show about Asian American film stereotypes that I am producing for Paramount. Two of our four interviews we shot on greenscreen wore glasses. The way we we have been fixing it is to use a travel matte of white or light gray that is tracked in a layer behind the talent's head.

If you don't do this, you will have a hole in the glasses that will show through to whatever your BG element is. So we add another layer with the white/gray, just behind the talent's head, motion track it to make sure that it doesn't peak around the edge of their head as they move and then do a separate matte pass to key through to the white/gray. In this way, the reflection ends up looking like a light reflection. If you do it right, it is pretty seamless and organic looking. It is just a PITA because of motion tracking and rendering the whole thing out, tweaking it. It helps if the interviewee isn't moving their head all over the place.


Dan

Thank you for that, Dan.

If you don't mind, I am not sure I understand this part: "then do a separate matte pass to key through to the white/gray"

At first, I thought you were just allowing the initial key to key out the reflection on the glasses along with the blue/green background allowing the tracked gray/white layer take its placee. Did I missunderstand that step?

Thanks again for sharing your experience on this.

Step 1: Hire a stunning model around 12 years old (pre-acne stage is critical) so you START with a base of flawless skin.

Step 2: Hire a professional makeup artist who REALLY knows what they're doing. (If they're really, really, really good, you can actually hire a 20-something model, cuz they'll know how to make a 20 year old look like she has 12 year old skin!)

Step 3: Hire a REALLY good lighting director, gaffer, and grip. Listen to what the LD tells you they need. And if he or she says they need a two 6 by silks, a 10 inch long strip of Alcoa aluminum foil and a slice of Wonder wheat bread, shut up and GET them a two 6 by silks, the foil, and the bread.

Step 4: Get out of everyone's way.

That's pretty much the recipe I'd use in that kind of situation.

FWIW

:)

I have the model, the make up girl, no budget for Conrad Hall though. :(

Thank you for that, Dan.

If you don't mind, I am not sure I understand this part: "then do a separate matte pass to key through to the white/gray"

At first, I thought you were just allowing the initial key to key out the reflection on the glasses along with the blue/green background allowing the tracked gray/white layer take its placee. Did I missunderstand that step?

Thanks again for sharing your experience on this.

Hi Robert:

Our on-line editor is doing this on an AVID Nitris Symphony, I can have you talk to him if you want details but unless you are doing this on a Symphony, you might do it differently.

I think it might depend on the compositing application you are using as how to best solve this issue. If it were me doing it, I would use Motion and probably DV Garage but the production company I am shooting for is all AVID.

Dan

I have the model, the make up girl, no budget for Conrad Hall though. :(

Understood.

However, I suspect you're NOT going for the smokey low-key look of the young lady's head shot. But rather the typical high-key look of a cosmetics promo where the look of the skin and the makeup itself is emphasized.

As always, you need some quality gaffers gear plus the skill to use it.

IN all the cosmetic stuff I've seen in magazines, the lighting has been not just high key, but high key with PRECISION control of shadow details and very, VERY smooth "transfer zones" between light and shadows with wide, soft falloff.

Part of that puzzle is large, soft sources. The other part is superior control of spill and light placement.

All that gets mixed with a good eye and understanding the face of the individual model in order to maintain the correct amount of contrast between highlights and soft shadows and to place those where they do the model's face the most good..

Also, you may need to pay attention to the model's beauty mark. That kind of detail MAY impact the make up artists ability to use a "high coverage" foundation to smooth the skin surface out.

Then again not. What I know about makeup is contained in having Mary W's phone number and making sure she's in the budget when I need to do something like this.

On a cosmetics shoot, the makeup artist is as critical as a qualified jib or Steadicam op when that tool is called for.

Let us know how it comes out.

Understood.

However, I suspect you're NOT going for the smokey low-key look of the young lady's head shot. But rather the typical high-key look of a cosmetics promo where the look of the skin and the makeup itself is emphasized.

.

I've looked at some cosmetic ads and as you say, High key. So I'm thinking a pair of softboxes with egg crate and a hairlight with a magenta gel to fight spill from the greenscreen. Would a 150 watt fresnel be good for that?

I've looked at some cosmetic ads and as you say, High key. So I'm thinking a pair of softboxes with egg crate and a hairlight with a magenta gel to fight spill from the greenscreen. Would a 150 watt fresnel be good for that?

I'd stay away from small sources for ANYTHING. Even a 150 fresnel will give you a bit of a hot spot off shiny hair from beyond a couple of feet.

If it was me, I'd go with softbox/grids for both key and fill - and use another black-wrapped off to act as a strip bank. (Or you could use an actual Chimera Strip Bank, but that's up to your budget) the point would be to generate a controllable band of highlight to wrap around the hair and shoulders as needed.

Just my 2 cents. Others, I'm sure, may have even more valid approaches.

I'd stay away from small sources for ANYTHING. Even a 150 fresnel will give you a bit of a hot spot off shiny hair from beyond a couple of feet.

If it was me, I'd go with softbox/grids for both key and fill - and use another black-wrapped off to act as a strip bank. (Or you could use an actual Chimera Strip Bank, but that's up to your budget) the point would be to generate a controllable band of highlight to wrap around the hair and shoulders as needed.
.

Ooops, fell over the edge on that last part, I googled "Strip bank" (got a few hits in Vegas), and still am not sure what you mean. So...you're suggesting for the hair light I should somehow black wrap a softbox (to limit the size of the light pool?) to create strip bank? What's a strip bank?

A strip bank is a narrow softbox (like a strip of light). You'd achieve a similar effect with a Kino 4' 2Bank or something like that. If you've already got a softbox for the hairlight, you can blackwrap it (or purchase a strip mask from Photoflex), but you're wasting a lot of light. A strip bank is more efficient.

Good luck.

~~Dave