I'm in the market for a new camera, and I'd like the input of the great minds on this board.

A little background. I own a Canon XL1S. Had it about 5 years now and love it, but it's way past time to upgrade.

My main experience is in commercial/promo production for television news stations and I also have a background as a news videographer. In my every day gig, I use a Sony PDW-F355 XDCAM. So, I'm very used to, and very comfortable with a shoulder mount/ENG style camera.

I've been shooting weddings for about 6 years now (about 30/year) and just started my own production company. We plan to use the wedding business as our meat and potatoes, but we also shoot commercials and documentaries, so I'm looking for a camera that will serve well in all three parts of the business.

Okay. My budget is about $4000.00.
Here are the contenders (drum roll, please).

JVC GYHD110U - My first choice for a long long time. In fact, I started a thread on here recently asking about other wedding shooters that use it. I like the ENG style design, the "pro" style lens. Most of the research I've done has given it positive reviews.

Canon XH-A1 - Damn you Still Motion. After seeing Patrick's work, I think, if it's good enough for Still Motion, it's got to be good enough for me. The footage I've seen from Patrick and others on this board has been amazing. The price is great. Plus, I'm kind of a Canon guy already.

Sony HVR-Z1U - My second camera at my "day job". I've used it from time to time to shoot weddings and it holds up well. The only negative, and it's an important one, is that it's a bit out of my budget range.

What do you guys think?

You've got quite a choice ahead of you. The JVC is the only ENG style camera on your list but it's probably the worst choice for weddings due to it's dreadful performance in low light.

I'd say that the Canon trumps the Z1 because of it's 24p capability (maybe useful in your non-wedding work) and from what I've seen out of the two I just think the Canon has a better picture.

I'm gonna add another camera to your list. It's not ENG, and it's not from a "pro" line like the Z1, but take a look at the soon to be released FX1000. It has 1/3" chips, shoots 24 & 30p as well as 60i, evidently is pretty darn good in low light, and fits well within your budget.

Don't overlook Panasonic's AVCCAM AG-HMC150. Tapeless HD recording to inexpensive SDHC cards; otherwise pretty much the same feature set as the AG-HVX200. See http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/panasonic-avccam-camcorders/

Don't overlook Panasonic's AVCCAM AG-HMC150. Tapeless HD recording to inexpensive SDHC cards; otherwise pretty much the same feature set as the AG-HVX200. See Panasonic AVCCAM Camcorders - The Digital Video Information Network (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/panasonic-avccam-camcorders/)

Ah... how'd I forget about that one?

Decisions, decisions.

Also consider the new Sony Z5 and the more expensve Z7 or EX1. For your intended combo of work I'd recommend the EX1 if you can swing it. Sony has some good loan terms available if you ask around.

Kevin - if the Z1 is beyond his budget then the EX1 and Z7 most certainly are.

The FX1000 will indeed be good in low light, but without XLR inputs I'd say forget it for the wedding and pro work.

All points to the Canon XH-A1 in my book. Ageing, but it's sure stood the time test.

The FX1000 will indeed be good in low light, but without XLR inputs I'd say forget it for the wedding and pro work.

The FX1000 is likely to be popular for weddings and events if the low-light performance is similar to the Z7, and use of an XLR adapter box solves that issue. The XH-A1 is used by some for weddings but not nearly as much so as the Z1U and FX1, which are easily the most popular HD wedding cams up to this point.

Understood that the Z7 and EX1 are beyond the stated budget, but for the corporate work they'd be worth considering a stretch. The EX1 in particular is in a class by itself for full 1080p resolution, subtler depth of field and fast solid-state workflow. (Which is handy unless the client expects a tape at the end of the shoot.)

Don't overlook Panasonic's AVCCAM AG-HMC150. Tapeless HD recording to inexpensive SDHC cards; otherwise pretty much the same feature set as the AG-HVX200. See Panasonic AVCCAM Camcorders - The Digital Video Information Network (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/panasonic-avccam-camcorders/)

My thoughts exactly. That is going to be the new hot cam in this price range. Ehe footage is gorgeous. And 3 hours recording per 32gb card...

Only issue is whether the home hardware is up to editing AVCHD.

As popular as the XHA1 is, I would not get the it at this point.. there should be a new model coming out.. One major feature I'm looking for is high res LCD and better low light performance. The new Pansonic HMC150 is tremedous low light performance for a 1/3" HD sensor, it also has better controls and handling than the XHA1. Recording without tape should be a no brainer obviously.

Recording without tape should be a no brainer obviously.

You sound like a camcorder salesman Yang. The reason Sony have just introduced lots more tape-fed cameras has grounding on good soild reason.

The FX1000 will indeed be good in low light, but without XLR inputs I'd say forget it for the wedding and pro work.You're falling for all the marketing hype around built-in XLR inputs just like everyone else. Sony leaves them off so they don't detract from higher-priced models.

Send your camera in for repairs because the built in XLR doesn't work. I'll just send in my $120 adapter and keep the camera.

You're falling for all the marketing hype around built-in XLR inputs just like everyone else. Sony leaves them off so they don't detract from higher-priced models.

If you look at the FX1 and Z1 the big difference appears to be the XLR inputs and it's easy to say that Sony's charging a lot for this addition when a Beachtek box seems to even the score.

But the Z1 is a far nicer camera than the FX1 to use in the real world and that's why I recommend it every time. The underscan v'finders, the zoom readout, more assign buttons, the PAL /NTSC switching, the fine tune of the white balance, the focus assist (not expanded focus, note) as well as the XLRs and far deeper menu options make the extra money well spent. And I'm not falling for marketing hype.

tom.

You sound like a camcorder salesman Yang. The reason Sony have just introduced lots more tape-fed cameras has grounding on good soild reason.

If you like to deal with drop outs and 1 hr max recording time per tape then by all means have a ball with them HDV cameras..

If you look at the FX1 and Z1 the big difference appears to be the XLR inputsEh? You were talking about the FX1000.

and it's easy to say that Sony's charging a lot for this addition when a Beachtek box seems to even the score.

Then why dismiss any camera by saying, "without XLR inputs I'd say forget it for the wedding and pro work." This comment implies that the merits of any serious camera is rooted in its XLR capabilities (or lack thereof). The entire VX series was the backbone of the industry at one time and always did give the PD's a run for their money.

Yes, the FX1000. I was just going into lateral thinking mode Rick, thinking that Sony were going to differentiate the FX1000 from the Z5 in the same way they kept the FX1 and Z1 apart.

And with those thoughts in mind (i.e. that the Z5 will offer lots more very useful photographic goodies) I say avoid the XLR-less 1000 version.

tom.

And with those thoughts in mind (i.e. that the Z5 will offer lots more very useful photographic goodies) I say avoid the XLR-less 1000 version.Perhaps, if you were buying just one camera.

But it's different for live event folks that need multiple cameras. For instance, I use 3 and any camera without XLR inputs works well for me because I only need one that's XLR capable. Why pay an extra $3000 for something I'll never use? I'd just as soon take that dough and buy a fourth unit.

Again, no argument that the Z5 should be better than the FX1000 in other respects (It had better be). All I'm saying is that XLR inputs alone shouldn't be the reason to dismiss a camera and go immediately up to the next level. There are cheaper ways to skin *that* cat.

William,
I have a few thoughts not expressed here. I do a little work for local news and cable broadcast, and all of my work is required on tape in SD 4:3. I also benefit greatly from the XLRs on the A1. I came from years of using the VX2100, and I have to say one of my favorite things about the A1 is the built in convenience of the XLRs. I would say if you were looking to do weddings only, then the FX1000 or HMC150 would be good. But, I would say with any need for local broadcast, the A1 works very well for me. and, I don't find it's low-light performance limiting. I like its low-light picture much better than my old Sonys. In fact, I would probably not buy the FX1000 anyway because I become so enamored with the Canon picture vs. the sony. Anyway, good luck.
Bill

Thanks for all the responses.

I think it's down to the Canon XH-A1 and the Panasonic HMC 150. I love everything I've seen and read about the A1. The only reservation I have is that it's been out for a few years and I don't want to buy something that will be dated shortly after purchasing.

The HMC 150 is intriguing. I just need to figure out how to adjust to a tapeless workflow. And get my hands on it to check out it's "feel".

William- what camera did you end up going with in the end? How has it turned out for you?

Yeah, and let me know if you need two Z1's. :)

This point was touched on, but I'll bring it up again.... if you do legal videography you HAVE to have a tape. Lawyers and the legal process like the thing called the "master" copy. Those "things" can be put in envelopes and stored, subpoenaed, held up in court, etc. Not likely to be possible with the massively expensive SxS card.

This point was touched on, but I'll bring it up again.... if you do legal videography you HAVE to have a tape. Lawyers and the legal process like the thing called the "master" copy. Those "things" can be put in envelopes and stored, subpoenaed, held up in court, etc. Not likely to be possible with the massively expensive SxS card.

But certainly possible with SDHC. And don't underestimate the "legal process". Sometimes it may surprise you. I'm amazed by it every day!

William- what camera did you end up going with in the end? How has it turned out for you?

Mike, I went with the Canon XH A1. I shot one wedding with it at the end of the season, and a couple of PSA's. So far, I'm very impressed with the results. Now, I just need that Brevis and Glidecam ;)

I'm a bit biased as I have a very high end camera, but I do have my list of features I would be looking for if I were shopping for a camera to shoot weddings.

1. Good lowlight performance - It's not good enough that it can see in the dark. It has to be clean. Video noise is subjective but my tolerance is pretty tight. I've seen some cameras do pretty well up to 18db but they tend to cost more than many will be willing to spend. So you have to find your threshold for how much gain you are willing to accept before you need to add additional lighting to the scene. In other words, everyone's interpretation of this will be different. If you have a nice broad, soft light source that can fill out a shot really well, your needs may be different from those who have spotty lights that barely illuminate their subject, nevermind what's around their subject. So, it's the camera combined with your choice of lighting that will determine what is acceptable to you. This requires testing - not reading specs.

2. Ergonomics - how is the camera to hold? How does it work with tripods, glidecams, steadicams, etc? Is it too heavy, too light? Are controls accessible at your finger tips or do you have to go deep into menus? This is one thing that should not be underestimated. You should have as much manual overide as possible and it should be right there on the camera.

3. Lens - If the glass is poor, so will your images, in a variety of ways. Unwanted flares, poor color rendition, poor contrast, etc. This area has improved over the years and many of the entry level professional cameras have decent optics. But none-the-less, test out the various cameras to make sure the lens can hold focus through the zoom range, check the lens at various F-stops to see what the characteristics are like. When you've worked with great glass, the flaws in lower end zoom lenses become more obvious.

4. Frame rates, chip size, etc - I like the thought of a 1080P camera that can shoot true 24P for when you need it. I also like the bigger chip sizes. The EX-1 is a great example of a camera that is offering a bigger chip. This helps with achieving more filmic images if you are after that. But, CMOS chips like the ones the EX-1 uses have their own problems, for example with strobes. If you shoot with a lot of flash photography in your scenes, or you happen to also be a police videographer you'll see the ugly effect this can have on your footage. So, know the limitations of the CMOS cameras.

5. Record formats - I am not the biggest fan of HDV, but I understand its place in the market, and for the most part it holds up, especially if you get it into a more rugged format in post. As storage capacities increase in the future I would prefer to see cameras recording with smart codecs such as what's offered by Cineform and most recently by Red. Throwing away information is an artform. But if we want to expand what is possible on the lower end, the technology will need to move towards smart codecs that allow as much of that information to survive so it can be manipulated a lot more in postproduction. Hopefully, we will also see these cameras have more dynamic range, and better S/N ratios.

So, back to the question at hand - which camera should you buy? The answer to that is the one that works best for you when you actually go out and shoot tests with it. Does it do everything you need it to do, does it produce an image that is up to the standards of the videos you produce or intend to produce? I have found that often I am disappointed with a product if I buy it only based on reviews or tech specs. Had I only tested it I would have realized that it had some features that didn't really work for my style of shooting.

For what it's worth I did see the HMC150 in action recently, and it is a cool camera. But I would have to play around with it, dig into the menus to see if I could tweak it to look better than what I saw. There seems to be a lot of noise. The camera owner said they were having problems with chroma noise on some of the cameras but it was being dealt with. Anyway, that's all I got on that topic.

Best of luck with your purchase!

The FX1000 will indeed be good in low light, but without XLR inputs I'd say forget it for the wedding and pro work.

Not True. I am starting to move away from camera XLR sound, it's just no good, instead I want to go with the Edirol R44 recorder. I would rather buy a cheaper camera without any XLR inputs and get my audio from a professional source. In most cases during a wedding you need audio all over the place shooting video and monitoring audio is very hard as you probably know by now, my solution is cheaper camera better audio equipment.

I have two XHA1's and they are by all means best value for the quality you get, it's almost a steal!! The JVC and Z1 is really old tech, I would stay away from them!

The JVC and Z1 is really old tech, I would stay away from them!

Delivery, not process. Person, not camera. Experience not money.