Some youtube demos of the picture... still learning the best way to compress in vegas for youtube. The Goonies video is a custom setting, the other is Vegas default HQ youtube setting. I think the custom looks better (watch in high quality).

I just set everything to high bitrates (10mbps) and best quality at 720x480 30fps.

The Goonies (kids at the lake)
YouTube - AVCHD HDR SR11 Handycam demo 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcx1g31aVJg)

The default HQ youtube vid
YouTube - AVCHD HDR SR11 Handycam demo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOhZqYp_pr4)

EDIT: Here is the Goonies Vid on Vimeo for comparison. I like what these new SR11/12 can produce.

http://www.vimeo.com/1833233

[QUOTE=Erik Phairas;944036]Some youtube demos of the picture... still learning the best way to compress in vegas for youtube. The Goonies video is a custom setting, the other is Vegas default HQ youtube setting. I think the custom looks better (watch in high quality).

I just set everything to high bitrates (10mbps) and best quality at 720x480 30fps.

The Goonies (kids at the lake)
YouTube - AVCHD HDR SR11 Handycam demo 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcx1g31aVJg)

The default HQ youtube vid
YouTube - AVCHD HDR SR11 Handycam demo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOhZqYp_pr4)

EDIT: Here is the Goonies Vid on Vimeo for comparison. I like what these new SR11/12 can produce.
Erik having watched your flims i see you have been having a lot of fun with your cam,having a fairly young family helps i dont any longer,i have a SR12 probobly should have got the 11 and i like it a lot,pq color wise i prefer the SR 12 to my HC-1/FX7. the FX-7 just a shade sharper but there is nothing in it,I do miss a lot of the on cam controls the tape cams have .
You say you like what the SR11/12s produce what cams have you had before

thanks for watching! This is actually my second HD handycam, I had one of the first Sony HD handycams and returned it after one weekend.. the low light performance was so bad I could not justify the money. sorry but I can't remember the model number. It used a little DVD came out a while ago.

I have not got to use a prosumer HD camera first hand but I have downloaded a lot of HD videos of them posted on the various forums. I know that is not the same, but it gives me an idea.. I am quite impressed with this little SR11. That didn't stop me from Buying an EX3 though.. I am obsessed with getting the best low light camera that I can afford. It's an old pet peeve. I had a F2 pro line panasonic prosumer-ish camera back in the 80s (one of the first consumer available CCDs?). Loved it, but even then the low light bothered me.

little bit of triva, the F2 is featured in a Sig Sig Sputnik music video for a moment. :)

YouTube - Sigue Sigue Sputnik - 21st Century Boy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28hFIxgtv0o)

Minute :55 it was a camera head and VTR combo. Sorry for the ramble.. LOL

thanks for watching! This is actually my second HD handycam, I had one of the first Sony HD handycams and returned it after one weekend.. the low light performance was so bad I could not justify the money. sorry but I can't remember the model number. It used a little DVD came out a while ago.

I have not got to use a prosumer HD camera first hand but I have downloaded a lot of HD videos of them posted on the various forums. I know that is not the same, but it gives me an idea.. I am quite impressed with this little SR11. That didn't stop me from Buying an EX3 though.. I am obsessed with getting the best low light camera that I can afford. It's an old pet peeve. I had a F2 pro line panasonic prosumer-ish camera back in the 80s (one of the first consumer available CCDs?). Loved it, but even then the low light bothered me.

little bit of triva, the F2 is featured in a Sig Sig Sputnik music video for a moment. :)

YouTube - Sigue Sigue Sputnik - 21st Century Boy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28hFIxgtv0o)

Minute :55 it was a camera head and VTR combo. Sorry for the ramble.. LOL

Its probobly me Erik but i dont get it when you say you have not used a prosumer cam but you then say you have bought an EX3,the EX3 must be vg in low light,i very rarely film indoors but i find the SR12s low light to be surprisingly good.
Thinking again you mean the EX3 is proffessional,good filming

well I bought an EX3, but haven't gotten it yet.. It comes in about 3 days. :)

The Sr11 is actually pretty nice in low light which is one of the reasons I like it so much but the EX3 should be a whole other level better. Lux rating is not the best way to measure but the Sr11 is only 5lux where the EX3 is 0.14. Plus I've seen what it can do in low light in videos posted on the forums.

well I bought an EX3, but haven't gotten it yet.. It comes in about 3 days. :)

The Sr11 is actually pretty nice in low light which is one of the reasons I like it so much but the EX3 should be a whole other level better. Lux rating is not the best way to measure but the Sr11 is only 5lux where the EX3 is 0.14. Plus I've seen what it can do in low light in videos posted on the forums.

It will be interesting how you find the EX3 outdoors compared to the SR11 it is a lot more expensive cam i know.The EX3 does not use memory stick and will need a powerfull pc to edit the footage i imagine,how do you store your footage i make blue ray and avchd discs as well as some tapes of all footage.
Regarding your rolling shutter question i have not had a problem with my SR12.

I store all my video on my computer harddrive. I will burn it to Blu ray in the near future. The XDcam EX codec couldn't be more difficult to edit than AVCHD... editing avchd is probably the hardest thing you will ever ask your computer to do besides games. :)

When I get the EX3 camera (tomorrow) I will be making a new video where I directly compare the two.

I store all my video on my computer harddrive. I will burn it to Blu ray in the near future. The XDcam EX codec couldn't be more difficult to edit than AVCHD... editing avchd is probably the hardest thing you will ever ask your computer to do besides games. :)

When I get the EX3 camera (tomorrow) I will be making a new video where I directly compare the two.
Agreed avchd editing is very difficult,if i have to make well edited film i usualy convert to hdv first[mad in some ways i know]but the tapes and blu ray discs still look good from the sr12.looking forward to your ex3 tests its a cam i have always wanted to try.

Here ya go Marty. I have a video comparison of the SR11 and EX3 here. The EX3 stays high def even in low light, where the Sr11 seems to switch into a standard def camera as the light starts to fade. LOL :)

Sony PMW EX3 xdcam demo on Vimeo (http://www.vimeo.com/1943374)

Getting a lot of mileage from that clip. :)

Here ya go Marty. I have a video comparison of the SR11 and EX3 here. The EX3 stays high def even in low light, where the Sr11 seems to switch into a standard def camera as the light starts to fade. LOL :)

Sony PMW EX3 xdcam demo on Vimeo (http://www.vimeo.com/1943374)

Getting a lot of mileage from that clip. :)

Night filming with a sr11 is not something of much use i know eric,an outdoor comparison when you get a chance would be nice,did you put your test in a sony demo film of some sort.

Night filming with a sr11 is not something of much use i know eric,an outdoor comparison when you get a chance would be nice,did you put your test in a sony demo film of some sort.



Yea I will work on a full on comparison. I gotta figure out the EX3 first.. definitely not a camera you just turn on and start taking video. Gotta learn what the camera wants.

EDIT:

HA, I just noticed something... watch the opening graphic on Vimeo.. the one with the cross hairs on earth. If you look in the four sides of the Graphic you will see letters M - W and X - E. Well the model number of the camera is PMW EX3

http://www.vimeo.com/1943374

Spooky!! :lol:

Hey Marty here is a real quick daylight SR11 vs EX3.. don't let this fool you.. the EX3 keeps it's quality in almost all lighting.. where the Sr11 looks less and less HD the darker it gets. Love my little Sr11 though, very glad I own both.

I guess the money in the EX3 is for all the control you get, plus the ability to keep it's resolution way down the lux scale. I had to use a wide angle lens on the SR11 to make it match the EX3, the EX stocker is very wide. I like that. Anyway the edges of the picture on the Sr11 is overly blurry from the wide angle lens adpater. But you can see a resolution difference even in the center of the field. Also the color on the EX3 is MUCH more true to life. The Sr11 punches everything up. The brighter colors might fool some into thinking the SR11 wins this part of the contest though... I would rather have them (the colors) more true to life.

You will also notice more dynamic range and less depth of field in the EX3...

Sony HDR SR11 vs PMW EX3 on Vimeo (http://www.vimeo.com/1960954)

should be up soon. EDIT: well maybe it will be a while... LOL

Hey Marty here is a real quick daylight SR11 vs EX3.. don't let this fool you.. the EX3 keeps it's quality in almost all lighting.. where the Sr11 looks less and less HD the darker it gets. Love my little Sr11 though, very glad I own both.

I guess the money in the EX3 is for all the control you get, plus the ability to keep it's resolution way down the lux scale. I had to use a wide angle lens on the SR11 to make it match the EX3, the EX stocker is very wide. I like that. Anyway the edges of the picture on the Sr11 is overly blurry from the wide angle lens adpater. But you can see a resolution difference even in the center of the field. Also the color on the EX3 is MUCH more true to life. The Sr11 punches everything up. The brighter colors might fool some into thinking the SR11 wins this part of the contest though... I would rather have them (the colors) more true to life.

You will also notice more dynamic range and more depth of field in the EX3...

Sony HDR SR11 vs PMW EX3 on Vimeo (http://www.vimeo.com/1960954)

should be up soon. EDIT: well maybe it will be a while... LOL

Thanks Erik nice test,perhaps the poor af[its the worst thing about the machine the sr11/12 losing focus] did not help it,the extra sharpness of the big boy showed through,even my fx-7 apears to be a bit sharper than my sr12 and its 1440/1080,regarding colour your grass test is similar to my two cams when i did a test but i preferd the sr 12 to the fx7 as the fx-7 is a bit week while the sr12s a little the other way which i prefer.for the money the little cam does not perform too bad,Anyway my friend i look forward to more film and tests, Mart

Good video tests! I think the thing that amazes me is how close the SR is to the EX considering portability and a substantial difference in price... I'm not seeing a multi-$K improvement in image quality from the one to the other, which is sort of surprising!

Which WA did you use on the SR out of curiousity? I know the quality of WA glass can make for HUGE differences in the performance of the camera - anything short of the old HG0737Y noticeably degrades the image from my experience... dang lens weighs almost as much as the camera though!

Thanks for watching. :) The SR11 is indeed a very nice little camera in bright light. Quite fond of it. I used a Sony X0.7 VCL-E07A wide angle lens. The only difference I see really (besides the wider angle) is blurring on the edges. I think someone said that is a sign it was made for standard definition? I dunno. But I know the stanard lens for the Sr11 is way too narrow for my taste. I had planned on buying something for the EX3 as well but I was pleased to find the stock lens is nearly as wide as the Sr11 with the VCL adapter.

Also remember, that video was downsized to fit on vimeo. The EX3 is a whole other animal than the SR11.. not even close in all but direct sunlight. :)

I've been pleasantly surprised by how good the SR11 is - even in an indoor reception shoot I'm pretty happy with it (used a little on cam light for fill). I know it isn't as impressive or as easily adjusted as a big cam, but the image quality is stunning - nothing to complain about that I can find. The EX definitely does better in low light with that big glass on the front, but if that's an EX in yer pocket, you'd REALLY be glad to see me... The SR does pretty well for a "pocket rocket"!

FWIW, that WA is like chaining a race car to a light post... definitely a SD lens, and IIRC it's a pretty simple single element sort of thing... so if the SR still looked that good, it's impressive. I've got several different WA lenses with the 37mm thread, and there's a huge difference between the SD lenses and the HG lenses, and even a significant difference between the various HG0737 versions. The current "C" version is nice since it's light and compact, but still can't hold a candle to the previous "Y" version. I'd expect ANY of the HG lenses to look better than the one you used, by a significant margin.

Also, a lower grade WA can knock off a significant amount of light sensitivity...

thanks for the heads up! I've done testing with and without it... it doesn't kill it too bad except for the edges.. but I'd like to get a proper HD wide angle for it.

You'd be surprised at the difference a GOOD WA makes. I had the VCL-0637 - neat little lens, still have one around for that extra .1! BUT, you can see the image is both darker and less detailed when side by side with one of the HG lenses... that's even in the LCD...

The HG0737C is a fairly decent lens, especially since finding a "Y" is nearly impossible - I have 2 of each model, and as tempting as it is to reduce my collection of lenses, I don't think I'd get rid of them as long as I have 37mm thread cameras - both serve a purpose. If you don't mind a bit of tendency to lens flare, the HG0737(no suffix) and the HG0737X are about equal to the "C".

Life's too short for cheap glass... and presuming Sony sticks with the 37mm thread diameter, the lenses should be around for a while - I collected most of mine back when I was using HC1's... added a couple "C"s more recently as they allow the CX7/12 to fit in the sports packs with the lens fitted.

The first video in the thread.. the goonies video.. AVCHD Sony HDR SR11 Demo on Vimeo (http://www.vimeo.com/1833233) is a combination of wide adapter and stock lens. Bascily if you see zoom I popped off the adapter..

Doesn't totally kill it in my opinion but like I said. I would like a true HD lens. :)

I have a sony VCL-HG2037Y 2X which i bought for my HC-1,i know it fits my SR12 thread size but i have not tried it as it looks too big in my opinion for the little cam and may harm it any thoughts on this.

Those "Y" series lenses are certainly huge... I actually weighed the 0737Y out of curiousity - 12 oz... almost as heavy as my CX12 at 1.1 pounds (17 oz!)...

I don't think there's any danger in mounting the lenses - IIRC even the HC1 had plastic threads, so the threading/mount shouldn't be an issue. The real challenge becomes how front heavy these little cams become with all that mass forward! The current "C" lens is a lot lighter and better matched weight and size wise, but if I want the highest image quality, I'd still use the "Y".

FYI Dave & Erik,

B&H has a used VCL-HG0737Y in stock for $79.00.

Used Sony | VCL-HG0737Y High-grade Wide Angle | VCLHG0737Y | B&H (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/800602385-USE/Sony_VCLHG0737Y_VCL_HG0737Y_High_grade_Wide_Angle.html)

I would buy it for my SR11 but I think its a tad heavy for run and gun shooting.

I checked the specs and the new "C" version has 3 lens elements vs 6 elements on the bigger "Y". Hence the weight difference.
From my experience, usually more elements means better quality with lenses but not always. Some of the newer computer-designed lenses perform well with less glass. I will most likely purchase the "C" version for my SR11 to save the 6 ounces of weight.

Rick -

Yep, the Y is pretty darn heavy, but that's a great price (about half what the C runs). If I didn't have two already, I'd be tempted to snag it!

There's definitely more barrel distortion on the C, the Y has almost NO visible barelling - and it's very crisp. BUT, it's heavy 2x the weight of the C it looks like, and it's also about 50% thicker... 2 1/4" vs 1 1/2"... so yes, the Y is a beast!

Out of curiousity, I just A/B'd the two lenses on the SR11 - interestingly, it appears the C is ever so slightly wider (aparently .7 has some flex in the spec), so the barelling issue COULD be the extra couple degrees of view. The other thing I noticed is the SR11 focus hunts a bit more with the C mounted than the Y when fully zoomed (and I'd presume this would apply to the range), and the Y has a slightly brighter overall image, meaning there's about one exposure increment (per the camera exposure adjustment) difference between the two - this is what I was mentioning about different WA lenses potentially causing differing amounts of light loss when mounted. SO there's a smidge of performance difference...

On the SR11, the Y is less awkward than on a CX12 as the SR has more heft to begin with, maybe you throw a FH100 on the back end to help balance it out (still nose heavy, but not as much), but now you've lost the size and weight advantage of the small cam!

From my view, you should probably have the Y around for tripod mount or when image/low light matters, but the C is better for general use... you're talking minor differences in any event, and so if weight/size are an issue again the C might be better for many shooters.

Either would be better than the SD lens Erik was using... still it was a great test, very helpful for me in confirming that the SR is a bargain... doesn't mean I wouldn't love to have an EX1/EX3, but I'm pretty amazed at how well the SR11 holds it's own.

After being reassured i tried the Y 2x on the sr/12 and was surprised the auto focus works with it ok and i use a NP-FH 100 battery, and on a tripod it may be an option for some wildlife filming when i am too tired to lug the fx-7 + tripod around.

of some interest I suppose. I Night video all shot with the Sr11.

YouTube - Dumont Comp Hill Nightlife (thanksgiving 08) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcHyuSOF8ss)

of some interest I suppose. I Night video all shot with the Sr11.

YouTube - Dumont Comp Hill Nightlife (thanksgiving 08) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcHyuSOF8ss)

I enjoyed the video. I like shooting night video with my SR11.

Did you use manual exposure? If so, did you have to change the exposure level often or did you just set it once and keep it there?

If you used auto-exposure instead of manual exposure, how did you keep the noise/grain level down to where is almost non-existent in the video (Twilight mode maybe?)

auto exposure, auto slo shutter. When I do anything with Vegas 8 the first thing I do it set the color corrector from studio RGB to computer RGB. Other than that, I just rendered at a VBR 10mbps average WMV and when uploaded to youtube, they seem to smooth it out a lot.

when watching the WMV on the computer there is more noise but it still doesn't see too bad for a single chip 1/3" sensor camera.

thanks for watching!

auto exposure, auto slo shutter. When I do anything with Vegas 8 the first thing I do it set the color corrector from studio RGB to computer RGB. Other than that, I just rendered at a VBR 10mbps average WMV and when uploaded to youtube, they seem to smooth it out a lot.

when watching the WMV on the computer there is more noise but it still doesn't see too bad for a single chip 1/3" sensor camera.

thanks for watching!
How are you doing with the big boy Erik.nice video by the way

oh the EX3 is my baby, when the lighting is just right, it looks like film. The low light on the EX3 is just beyond words... I showed this over in the EX forum and I don't think they knew what they were looking at...

I took the camera out and was able to capture a nice image of the Orion nebula. You can barely see it with the human eye... LOL

Hey the SR11 when recording onto a memory stick, makes a great helmet cam. :)

Dumont Dunes, New Years Day 2009 on Vimeo (http://www.vimeo.com/2736636)

Also another comparison to the EX3 as the end of this video is EX footage.

Nice footage, I think I saw my house in one shot <wink>. Just a hop skip and jump down the road from me. The EX3 is definitely doing some nice video, surprised you'd take your baby out in the sand, but it looked quite nice. The SR11 holds up pretty well though, still amazes me how little difference there is between the two considering the price diferential...