Have any of you been able to actually get your hands on a Vinten Vision 3 tripod and check it out? There's a photo of it on pg. 56 in the April issue of DV Magazine and it looks pretty interesting (interchangeable counter-balance springs). Adam Wilt seems to think it's pretty good, too. Check out his review at http://www.dv.com/magazine/2001/1101/wilt1101.html

Unfortunately, stores here don't carry it, so I can't get my hands on it to see how it feels.

I did get such a chance several months ago while shopping for a new tripod. As you might imagine, given the price and the brand's reputation, it's very well made and moves smoother than a sled over new-fallen snow. The "springs" that allow you to adjust the drag for different loads seemed like a unique solution, although somewhat gimmicky. (I didn't get a chance to change the springs...the owner didn't know where he put the others <g>)

My choice came down to a Sachtler DV, a Vinten Vision and a Miller DS-10. I chose the Miller. Very smooth head with pretty good drag control, good leg design (I chose the above-ground spreader with aluminum legs), designed specifically for the XL1/XL1s, less $ than the Sachtler, nice soft case included, shoulder-strap mounted on the legs and the case.

I have owned one for over a year---wonderful tripod---very smooth, very reliable----it was worth every penny.

I've since bought one, too. Ditto David's remarks.

I have a Vinten Vision 3. It rocks. I've used it with palm corders
and shoulder mounted AJ-D400 and DSR-500WS, VX2K and XL1.
(Springs for different weight cameras are like $40 each).

Worth the big dollars imo.

J.

I'm looking for a tripod, and having read many posts here have almost decided on the Vinten Vision 3. Do you order them with a specified spring, or do they come with one particular spring as standard?

Pat

It has been a few years, but I think you order the spring you want.

Yes, you select a spring for the camera load. I bought two springs for different loads.

Yeah, I think the springs are $35 each. We have a #2, #3 and #9.
The cool thing is this tripod will work with everything from a palm corder
to a DSR500.

I see, thanks. Although I'm almost decided on the Vision 3 I'm still wondering how the Miller DS-5 or DS-10 would compare (and I can't easily try them out to see for myself). Both seem well recommended here, but is there any material difference between the two or does it just come down to personal preference?

Pat

I went and tried every tripod at NAB two years ago. Sure, Sachtler
and Miller work well, but IMO I found the Vinten to be the smoothest of them all.
That plus the fact that you can use anything from a tiny peewee cam to
a full blown Beta made the decision even easier. I don't think
the miller or sachtler offer that feature.

As always YMMV.

Pat,
I have a Sachtler DV-6, a Miller DS-10 and a Vinten Vision 3 (with single-stage cf legs). (Don't ask.) The Vinten is by far the best and most versatile of the group, as Jacques indicated. Its engineering is simply superb. One attribute of the head that's rarely mentioned is its easy facilitation of motion curves (I'm sure there's a more precise term for it). By this I mean that the head's pan and tilt design basically prevents jarring starts and stops (unless you release all drag for whips). The motion starts with a touch of extra drag for a second and then lets you ease to a soft stop.

But, of course, the Vinten is the most expensive of the group.

The Miller DS-10, while not in the same class as the Vinten, is my next favorite for small cameras. It sets up very quickly, is also very well engineered and manufactured, is easy to adjust for loads and is relatively light-weight. Although it's not as load-flexible as the Vinten its tilt drag and sliding plate offer very good adaptability. As I've noted elsewhere, although I do not need the DS-10 any longer I am still adverse to the prospect of selling it. It's just that kind of equipment.

The best selection for you will really depend on your camera, the amount of precision you need, and of course your budget. But as you're considering your purchase I'll recommend that you be just a bit liberal with your budget on this purchase. As I remind people so often, a good tripod and head will likely long outlive your current camera and probably its next two of three successors.

Good luck and have fun shopping!

Thanks for the feedback - it seems that the Vinten is the one to go for then. Having bought a range of still camera tripods over the years (starting with cheap and ending up with a rather expensive CF model with a similarly priced head) I do appreciate the value of investing adequately in this area, and the flexibility for future, larger cameras is also a strong point.

I guess I would go for the 2 stage legs, but I'm not sure about whether to get CF or not, considering the price difference. I doubt that the reduced weight is that much of a benefit once the head is fitted. I assume that the CF models would be black, but this isn't clear from the Vinten site or online catalogue.

The illuminated bubble level thingy sounds useful too, although I imagine the spare bubbles are expensive <g>

The cf legs are, indeed, black. One notable attribute of cf legs -vs- aluminum (particularly for video) is that they're more rigid than aluminum legs.

I should also have noted that the Vinten's legs feature a ground-spreader as standard. The Miller's feature a mid-level spreader. You can get a mid-level spreader for any of the Vinten "Pozi-Lock" legs but it will set you back over $600.

Whichever rig you select I recommend that you also get a second camera mount plate for the head. They're ridiculously priced ($60-$75) but if you lose your only plate your tripod is out of business.

I think I'll probably go for aluminium actually - that way I'll only have to sell one kidney to pay for it <g>

The mounting plates and mid-level spreaders are ridiculously expensive, aren't they? Quite a healthy margin on those I would think.

I need to get a zoom controller at the same time, and I'll probably go for the Varizoom VZ Rock that was rated well here. This site is very useful for making informed choices.

I'm ready to buy the Vinten Vison 3 with 2-stage CF legs and mid-level spreader for use primarily with an XL1S...

Anybody here have one they'd be willing to sell me for half-price? <grin>

Do you have the mid-level spreader Ken? I'll probably be using this tripod on uneven ground about as often as on even surfaces. Is the spreader worth the extra money?

I'm hoping that I can buy all these tripod items including assorted springs at the same time and maybe get a "package deal" discount price from somewhere, maybe B&H...

Any suggestions on the best place to buy? From one of the forum's sponsors???

Thanks, Ed

Ed,
I do not have the mid spreader for my Vinten. It's in my B&H Wish List...and my birthday is coming up...time to send the link to my wife!

With its central gearing design, and individually adjustable arms, the Vinten mid spreader looks like a thoughtfully designed device. Note that "some assembly required". The kit comes with feet to cover the leg spikes made naked by removal of the ground spreader. There's also some screwdriver work required to fit the new spreader to the legs.

"Worth it"? Hard to say, Ed. The Vinten's ground spreader is a nice design with individually geared arms. I'm inclined to advise that you first try the legs with the standard ground spreader for a while and make the decision based on your personal experience.

BTW, one more little tip on the Vinten. Its feet fit perfectly into a Bogen/Manfrotto folding auto-dolly (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=5547&is=REG). I had one from a previous tripod campaign and was delighted that I didn't have to buy Vinten's extremely expensive dolly (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=67172&is=REG) which also does not have the nice central locking feature of the Bogen.

Ken,

Thanks for the most interesting information! I'll probably do what you suggest and use it with the ground spreader UNLESS I can get a reduced package cost by buying it at the same time as I get the rest of it.

Also, thanks for the dolly info. Tips from someone who actually knows from real-life experience about equipment is far better than most reviews... The Vinten dolly looks like it a lot more substantial than the Bogen, but at a cost of an extra $600 it doesn't look that great. ;o) It's really helpful to find out that the Bogen dolly works well too!

One more question please? The info about the Vision 3 on the Vinten website refers to (2) two 3/8"-16 screws and a 1/4" pin for connecting the tripod quick-release plate to my camcorder (XL1S).

What have I missed? Doesn't the XL1S tripod mounting socket have a 1/4"-20 thread, not a 3/8"-16 threaded tripod mounting socket? Also, why would the plate have two screws along with the 1/4" pin?

Obviously I'm missing something very obvious & basic, but what???

Thanks, Ed

No, I think it's 3/8. In any case I had no trouble. The smaller, stationary pin is sometimes called the "VHS locking" pin.

It think it is supplied with two screws (a) as a spare, and (b) I think some of the big cams use two screws.

Thanks Ken... I think I (at least) understand what the 1/4" VHS locking pin is all about. <g>

But, I just now rechecked and I have been attaching a Bogen quick release plate to the XL1S's tripod mounting socket and that plate definitely uses a 1/4"-20 threaded screw...

I figured before I posted that whatever the deal with the Vinten mounting plate might be, the Vision 3 obviously works fine with the XL1S and connects without any problem...

I have to admit though, that I am more confused now than ever... 1/4"-20 --- or --- 3/8"-16 ???

I think I'll just quit sweating the small stuff, bite the bullet and order the Vison 3 system...

The XL1 uses the smaller 1/4-20 thread, while most professional models use 3/8's. The use of two screws is not only more stable, but prevents the camera mounting plate from spinning (and loosening) around a single point. So, the bottom line is two screws are better than one.

Most prosumer camcorders are 1/4" x 20. Vinten gives you
that and the larger Pro camera screw. The tripod plate attachment
is the one weakness of the Vinten. Here, Bogen has the best and easiest
design imo. Vinten's method is easy to drop/lose.

On the Vinten, you get this piece of plastic that kinda looks like an
open ended wrench that the screw and locking pin snap into each end.

THe original locking pin Vinten handed out would NOT fit into the XL1's
hole. When I was at NAB this year, I went to the Vinten booth and asked
about this issue. I was told that Canon will NOT publish the actual size
of that hole. As you know, it doesn't take it being off by much not to work.
Anyway, they were very cool about it and actually went under the counter
and gave me a new kit of parts . . . that's COOL. Their new model works.

I see! The "simple" fact is that Vinten includes both screw sizes... The answer seems so obvious to me NOW. <g> Thanks!

I did not get the VHS pin when I got my Vision 3, I had to roder one from B&H... the VHS pin thingy set me back $50 US.... It's merely a 1/4" 20 screw, attached to a plastic hook which also holds a 3/8" screw which is secured to the mounting plate. So, I only have 1 screw physically holding my XL-1.

Could you guys take a picture of your double screw mount? I'm curious to see if mine is different. My tripod is about a year old.

One thing that bothers me with the mounting plate, is that it seems specific to the Vision head. I have a bogen plate that isn't compatible, so I hope I don't lose the Vinten plate... it'll cost an arm to get a replacement.

Well now you've made me look in my Vinten parts kit. Sure enough, the Vinten plate comes with two 3/8" screws, one 1/4" and a locking pin.

<<< I hope I don't lose the Vinten plate... it'll cost an arm to get a replacement.>>>

Yup, $135 at B&H!

Originally posted by John Locke : "Have any of you been able to actually get your hands on a Vinten Vision 3 tripod and check it out... ...Unfortunately, stores here don't carry it, so I can't get my hands on it to see how it feels."

Just got my Vinten Vision 3 with the mid-level spreader. I don't have the correct spring for using my XL1S yet (B&H is out of stock) but the system feels fantastic... Incredibly smooth pans and tilts and rock-solid support.

Definitely two thumbs up...

Welcome Mr. Baatz to the land of what a fellow shooter coinded, "walking on marshmellows" feel of the Vinten head.

Don't lose the plate/parts ;)

Good for you, Ed! Here's your first, "I can't believe how good it gets" exercise. Set a little bit of pan drag and -try- to do a jolting pan. That is, just try to come to a jarring stop. Can't do it, can you? Try the same with tilt (when you get the appropriate spring loaded). Can't do that either, can you?

In my opinion Vinten tripods are, quite simply, the best.

<<<-- Originally posted by Ed Baatz :Just got my Vinten Vision 3 with the mid-level spreader. I don't have the correct spring for using my XL1S yet (B&H is out of stock) but the system feels fantastic... Incredibly smooth pans and tilts and rock-solid support. -->>>

So, you bought the Vision 3 (with ground spreader) plus the additional mid-spreader? When I was on the market, they told me they didn't sell the Vision 3 system tripod with just the mid spreader, it was an added expense. I hope they haven't changed that policy now that I have one! (well, I hope they did for you, thats great! )

Andrew,

They threw in the mid-level spreader for free. <just kidding!!!>

Yes, I bought the "system" which includes the ground level spreader plus the exorbitantly priced mid. The ground spreader would be fine most of the time, but after I put the mid-level spreader on the legs it is really fine. The word "engineered" comes to mind...

Setting up will be even easier with the mid-level. I am very pleased with it and Ken is right... Even with a "jerk" operating the Vision 3 --- it won't jerk... [g]

== Ed ==