I will preface these posting by saying that this is my first time working on a feature film. I do not yet have permission to disclose the film, post screen grabs, or discuss details but this will be the ramblings of life on set of a soon to be major motion picture.

Thanks - Jim

First two days. Day one walked the prison with brief synopsis of different scenes. Shot two pick ups working out the flow of the crew and the look of the film. Surprising how much I do know, and how much I really don't know.

Day two - Generator, truck problems. Shot 3 pick up shots and Gaffer wants to meet with those assisting in grip to get everyone on the same page with setups. Much needed. Footage from Red looks great and the look of the film is impressive. It was a small surprise how much down time there is during actual takes. Hopefully the setups and number of takes will take less time.

It was a great idea to have "rehearsals" for the crew to be able to develop into a cohesive team. It is going to be necessary to get the equipment and lack thereof in good working order.

Jim, if this series of posts is what it seems like, it'll be absolutely fascinating. Thanks for taking the time to tell us about your experiences.

I'm very interested in the scheduling side of things. How much time between takes is an average, would you figure? How long are your days? When in the day is the prep work done and you start actually shooting?

Josh

Joshua -

Our routine is set camera framing and position. Once that is locked, the DP steps in and does a rough placement of lighting using stand ins, 30 minutes or so, while the director and actors go off and find the "moment". Once lighting is locked the actors return and will do two or three rehearsals to tweak performance and lights.

When "this is a take" is called the entire crew gives the actor the space needed to stay in character, minimum talking, noise. Takes can happen one right after the other or the director may come in a give a note and then continue. This is the critical part, the actor goes into a head space that you do not want to interrupt. It is an enormous effort on the actors part to go from his normal persona into the characters emotional place.

During some of the highly charged, emotional scenes we have spent 3 hours getting the critical 10 seconds of on the screen footage followed by another half hour getting the additional coverage needed to have a smooth edit. Fortunately the editor is on set doing a rough cut as we go. Tapeless work flow is the only way to go.

Right now my days are averaging about 12 hours, but that is my choice. It is my nature to be first to arrive and the last to leave. I like to gather my thoughts for the day early and be sure that all is prepped for the following day before I leave. Call time is officially 7 am and we are dismissed at 5:30

Great thread Jim,

please keep it alive, and I think many people here will be glad to follow it.
Best regards,

Interesting thread Jim - look forward to more.

I think that is really cool that the editor can gradually make a rough cut day by day during production. Digital cinema sure seems as though it is headed in a pretty awesome direction!

Thanks so much, Jim! This is really interesting. 7 - 5:30 sounds like a great day. Long enough to get things done, but short enough so people don't get burned out. I've worked on some indy sets where the days can stretch to 16 hours, and I think people get tired and start cutting corners.

What time do you guys start actually shooting? I've been on sets where there's 4-7 hours of preparation, and it's seemed excessive to me, but I've also heard that that's normal.

Are you guys using old-school tungsten lights, or fluorescents and cool HMI tungstens like the CoolLights fresnel (http://www.coollights.biz/clmf0150-cool-lights-fresnel-p-63.html)? Or all of the above?

Sorry if I'm asking too many questions. Don't feel obligated to answer them all. Thanks again for the posts.

Josh

I've been on sets where there's 4-7 hours of preparation, and it's seemed excessive to me, but I've also heard that that's normal.

Depending on load-in and lighting requirements, a "functional" production should be able to get the first shot off anywhere between 1 hr and 4 hrs after call (the former for day exteriors or picking up work from the previous day on the same set, and the latter for a big lighting setup and/or special circumstances like stunts or special effects rigging etc). Most of the time 2 hrs into the day would be considered "normal".

Jim, great string here and one to follow thanks; especially the tapeless workflow and the editor on set. That's going to change a lot of movie prod big time, I think.

Is the idea to let the actors and crew see progressive work?

Cheers.

...This is the critical part, the actor goes into a head space that you do not want to interrupt. It is an enormous effort on the actors part to go from his normal persona into the characters emotional place.


Nice to see us actors being appreciated:-)

great thread - can you let us know things like crew size, number of locations, aprox budget, are they working off a shooting script (with each shot listed), are they using storyboards - that'll do for now:-))

Ohh - and what is your role?

I hate soap operas, but this one has me reeled in. Jim, can you give us an idea of the budget for this movie? Is it a small indy movie, or big time Hollywood, etc?

Oops, Paul M beat me to it. Thanks.

Are you guys using old-school tungsten lights, or fluorescents and cool HMI tungstens like the CoolLights fresnel (http://www.coollights.biz/clmf0150-cool-lights-fresnel-p-63.html)? Or all of the above?
Josh

We have 2 5K's, 4 2K's, 4 1K's and assorted Arris

I was brought in to do special effects, gunshot impacts, people getting shot, chairs breaking and to assist the grip dept. We are shooting in one location; sort of, its 800,000 sq ft. It entirely possible to walk 6 miles a day.

There is a core group of 10 people or so, some days we have a few more PAs which really helps.

I have no idea what the budget is but it is an Independent film that looks like a million bucks. Each shot has been storyboarded.

I'm wrapping up participation in 5 x 15 minute shorts, one of which was shot in super 16 and digitized for editting. My, personal, participation was as editor, sound and video, as well as color timer for two of the films. Total production and post time was 7 months.

Given that these were small indies, a crew of 5-10, same crew for each film except for DP, director and producer, the experience was pretty consistent across all films. Dare I say that budgets were insufficient, at $10-20k per film, even with crew and talent working for free. Producers consistently under-budgeted post production costs, both for sound mastering and film processing.

As anyone familiar with the production of shorts, ego and ego-driven management was rampant, causing more problems than I care to describe, here. Ironically, talent was easy to work with, it was the director that caused most of the problems.....LOL.

Great learning experience, for me. If not a little tongue in cheek, I would recommend seeing "Day for Night", a 1974 French film directed by François Truffaut.

Here is one shot I took between takes

After the first week of filming the crew is exhausted, tempers are short. The DP and Director have conflicted on numerous occasions. It finally came to a head and we lost the DP. It is this writers opinion that the director expectations are a little high. 8+ takes plus rehearsals with 4 or 5 setups a day, the math just does not add up to a reasonable day. You do not want to be a grip.

The film and look are amazing. If we can survive the shoot I think we can hit a home run. Michael Wincott was on set for a day. Although it was a long day we all came away feeling pretty pumped. He even took the time to call the following day and comment on how professional and "big budget" the film and crew appeared to be.

Damn! and I was going to be a grip in my second life :0 More Jim thanks.

Cheers.

Tensions are high. A door got busted apart in a fit of rage. The crew is tired of hearing "That was great, let's do it again" and come on we got to hustle we are falling further behind. Well with expectations of 10 to 14 setups a day and 6 to 8 takes per set up the math just does not add up. At 10 minutes per take that’s 14 hour days. When are we supposed to strike sets and do the set up for the next one?

If the Director would just direct and the DP's, yea two, step up and figure out the lighting, everything would fall into place down the line. Organization is lacking, call sheets are not ready, equipment failing, issues with the Red, half of the crew sitting around waiting to be told what to do and the other half doing.

In spite of all this the film and acting are incredible. I caught myself holding my breath while today's fight scene was being filmed. Location is fantastic. I have seen some of the rough edit and this film has real potential.

". . .at 10 minutes per take. . ."

There's your problem!

Or are you just saying that it takes 10 minutes to get set for, shoot, and reset for the next take? 10 minutes is a pretty long time to run straight.

All this sounds like you need a good 1st AD to keep things on track and schedule. The fun usually starts when they ask the director which shots they're going to drop, however, you do need this to keep what sounds like an inexperienced director on course.

10 to 14 set ups isn't that many unless you're moving location all the time, although on low budget and TV films the number of takes you're allowed is pretty limited due to the schedule pressures. Time between takes does depend on how complex the shots are and how much resetting is required.

It's not that unusual for half the crew to be waiting around for the moment when they move in to do their thing.

Well we as a crew started hitting our stride, coming in under the time allotted to finish the set ups. I can honestly say I don't know if I want to do this again, The work is grueling hard, and then you sit around for what seems like hours for take after take.
We managed 11 set ups yesterday morning, 5 to 8 takes per set up. It was a fight - gun sequence which usually takes the longest to get all the coverage you need. I don't envy the actors. Jumping in and out of character seems to be exhausting for these guys.
I apologize if all these post seem negative but they are usually written after a 12 hour day of moving 5 K's, 2 K's, numerous 650s and 300's along with the accompanying C-Stands, electric, gels.
The director is demanding, but I have to respect him for that. He knows what he wants and is not willing to compromise to make it easy. It is a challenging movie to film, complicated set ups in very small places. It has been a very rewarding experience.

". . .at 10 minutes per take. . ."

There's your problem!

Or are you just saying that it takes 10 minutes to get set for, shoot, and reset for the next take? 10 minutes is a pretty long time to run straight.

10 minutes is the time between "cut", director conversation with actors, changing cards on the Red, resolving the drop frame issue, reset, "action", doing the shot, and "cut"

We got it! The crew has finally clicked. Electric shows up a half hour early to get power run and generators going. The director is directing and the DP has taken control of the lighting. 5 light setups with flags, gels, and dubie's are now taking 20 minutes.

The crew has learned that conversation between takes is not acceptable, communication between the director and actors is paramount. Between the call of "cut" and "all quiet on set" we are able to tear down the previous setup and stage for the next. It does make it easier now that we have learned our way around the prison. Getting lost used to be real easy.

Tomorrow we go "underground". If you think prison is a bad place you should see what it is like in the maintenance tunnels underneath the main complex.

Copyright Morgan Estill

Position one Scene 9

8+ takes sounds like a lot, but not unreasonable. Wasn't Kubrick notorious for dozens of takes?

What are the Red issues you're experiencing?

8+ takes sounds like a lot, but not unreasonable. Wasn't Kubrick notorious for dozens of takes?

What are the Red issues you're experiencing?

The CF Module seems to have a bad pin and we are getting dropped frames, but only intermittently. That and shooting at 4K filing cards happens real quick.

Jim, with the editor on site, can you give an insight on how that's working?

Cheers.

Great thread!

Would the movie happen to be A Lonely Place for Dying?

Jim, with the editor on site, can you give an insight on how that's working?

Cheers.

Well let's just say the editor is a couple of days behind the shooting but we expect a rough cut of the movie and finished trailer by the wrap party.

Well let's just say the editor is a couple of days behind the shooting but we expect a rough cut of the movie and finished trailer by the wrap party.

This happened/s on feature films that were/are cut on film, the editor would be working away as the dailies came in, cutting the film. Some major features had an incredibly quick turn around after the shooting was finished.

The crew is tired of hearing "That was great, let's do it again"

I was watching Robert Duvall talk about one of his proudest moments in acting -- the scene where as Tom Hagen, he tells the Don about Sonny. It's something like take #4. Apparently take 3 was great, nothing wrong with it at all, but Coppola was like, "let's just do one more for the heck of it," and it was just magical. Like, maybe, knowing that it was already in the can let Duvall just totally relax and nail it? However it is, I have to agree -- the way he delivers the line is just amazing.

I've been on both sides of this equation--believe me it's no fun to shlep 70 lbs of Steadicam through a scene 12 times for a particular director when the next one might be happy with 3 takes (couple years ago on "In the Valley of Elah" I had to do a very fast move something like 50 times, between rehearsals and takes). However having directed I am sensitive to the need to make sure the performance is there before moving on, and it may be all but invisible to the crew what the director is specifically looking for. That said, a less experienced director may just be doing more takes than they need to out of insecurity, ego or frankly lack of talent (knowing when you have the shot is a skill like any other).

In a low-budget situation, compromises have to be made somewhere (usually everywhere). A director who does not look at the big picture, i.e. the workload for the day and tailor the amount of takes is being irresponsible. There are many tricks to working around this such as keeping the camera rolling and going right into another take (minimizes the downtime between takes and keeps energy up) or asking the actors to pick up from a certain point. I've worked for directors who will only cover certain parts of a scene, even as extreme as just a few lines, if they are able to commit to not needing anything else from that angle.

It was some afternoon.

Nice to hear, Jim, you are not shying away from the difficulty and blood and sweat that is called movie making.
Also great to hear very interesting tips and hints from people with experience how to minimize difficult circumstances.

Left of principle photography. Everyone is burnt to a crisp. Last Monday was the record, 22 setups for the crew.

I will leave with a healthy respect for everyone involve in the making of a movie. From the director who has to insure a significant performance, the producer who deals with at times inept, inexperienced crew. The crew with the former two.

It all became very clear when the key scene was filmed. 3 hour setup in a 8' x 10' x 5' room, 18 takes, but the last two were powerful. The ladies on the set were sobbing, the crew broke out in spontaneous applause for the performances. The director was visibly affected.

For all who embark on this adventure, my hats off to you. It is one in which you will be excited, demoralized, angry, confused, and have a fulfillment of which you have never experienced.

4 more days....

Finished a week ago but have not had the energy to do much of anything. Was never so happy to get out of a place yet so reluctant to leave.

I did secure permission to post a production photo gallery if ya'll want to take a look.

MobileMe Gallery (http://gallery.me.com/jmmnt/100004)

Jim

For those who care to take a look. 6 weeks of my life and I'm impressed.

A LONELY PLACE FOR DYING - Sizzle on Vimeo (http://www.vimeo.com/2189664)

Jim

mmm--with all due respect to the filmmakers who have gotten this far (no easy task), I found that clip pretty self-indulgent. To duplicate the glad-handing of a major film's EPK for an unsold indie creates a somewhat self-important impression. But then again, I'm not a film buyer. I wish them well.

mmm--with all due respect to the filmmakers who have gotten this far (no easy task), I found that clip pretty self-indulgent. To duplicate the glad-handing of a major film's EPK for an unsold indie creates a somewhat self-important impression. But then again, I'm not a film buyer. I wish them well.

For a long time, I've been looking for the right words to sum up my thoughts on a lot of "making of/behind the scenes" clips for low(er) budget movies. This sums it up perfectly.

I'd just put out a great trailer and keep the BTS stuff to myself until it is sold.

I believe the intent was to create something for the AFM. I wish them well too, maybe I can get paid!

Jim

Hi Jim: I enjoyed following your experiences very much. Thanks for posting this...

A bit of a departure from what I'm used to seeing you do, heh.

Jim,

I also enjoyed the day-in-the-life-on-a-set story. Makes me feel like I'm not the only inexperienced @#$%^& director out there. I can identify with a grumbly crew at odds with great artistic vision... :)

But I am glad to have made the move behind the camera. That method acting was tough. Sometimes I'd get stuck for days "in character" wrecking my home life and professional career. Never come straight from an all night gig playing a mobster into a work review covering your C++ coding accomplishments...

Dick

Jim, very many thanks for a fascinating insight into movie making as it is now. It's a long time since I was on a feature film set (4 Weddings & a Funeral...14 years ago!) and I'm wondering whether things have changed in the relationships within the crew. Bickering between the sound crew and the camera crew, sometimes surly electricians, lordly contempt from the shooting technicians for the 'armchair army' (make up, hairdressing etc). All these were by no means common in the films I worked on, but were still discernible.

Nick

Fortunately we were not that big a crew. The electricians did camera, camera did lights and so on. There were 10 people at all times + or - a couple of PAs. Over 6 weeks of working and living together it got pretty stinky, in both ways, at times.

Looking back on it now there were some slackers and some guys that really busted butt. The work was hard but I really learned a lot and made some great friends.

Glad to hear that your crew pulled together. That was the big difference I noticed moving from feature films into regional television. The TV film cameramen looked out for us sound guys and vice versa...I would also carry lamps for the sparks, something at least two unions would have crucified me for in films! I expect that it's different in features now. Thanks again for your diary.
Nick.

Jim,
Thanks for the running diary. I was a gaffer (or juicer) in a feature film, and I can sympathize with the way you felt. Try moving 12K lamps in the middle of August in Florida -yecch! That experience turned me away from feature films. I prefer smaller productions now.

Nick, I love Four Weddings and a Funeral! One of my favorite flicks.

great stuff Jim. Thanks for taking the time to write all this.