Hi Peter,

Does the stutter occur in the final video or in the time line?

So far, VSX2 has been just perfect for AVCHD, in some ways, surprisingly so. It's quite an inexpensive application - mine was an upgrade, even better an upgrade on sale.

I use VSX2 for a multitude of common tasks - ripping DVDs, DV to DVD Wizards (for legal work), it recognizes some of the more oddball CODECs conversions that come our way, too. I highly recommend it. For the low cost, I find it a no-brainer.

My best to all.

Mike

Jamie,

Your settings sound wrong to me.

To begin with, a 50 min disk should NOT fit on a single layer disk, and should occupy roughly 6 Gbytes, thus requiring a dual layer disk. (I am assuming your video clips were recorded at the highest quslity 15 Mbit/sec speed of the SR1).

Second, your burning time should be much, much faster than 8 hours. A 'Smart Rendered' disk should maybe take very roughly 60-90 minutes on your laptop, and would be finished on my very fast desktop in maybe 25 minutes or so.


Be sure that you have Nero settings for your specific type of AVCHD. Since your camcorder was the first AVCHD camcorder to be introduced (around October of 2006) it uses 1440 by 1080 AVCHD, rather than the more common 1920 by 1080. Secondly, your camcorder uses Dolby 5 channel audio rather than the more commom stereo 2.0 Digital Dolby. Both of these are manual over-ride settings in Nero. I am guessing that your Nero is set for the defaults and is therefore re-rendering the entire 50 minute video from its original 1440 to 1920, and may also be re-rendering your audio as well.

Whwn you arrive at the final page of Nero called Burn Options, turn on the "Details" and it will show you whether it is going to do Smart Rendering or not. You should see both Audio and Video Smart Encoding Ratios of 100% or close to it (unless you have decided to add color correction or other effects to all of your clips).

If your ratios are lower, click the "More" button below, and this will reveal more choices. Select / push the "Video Options" button and you will then see 2 tabs. Select the tab called "AVCHD".

Under "Quality Settings" chose Custom and set the resolution to 1440 by 1080 (rather than the default 1920 by 1080). Set the default audio to Dolby 5.1 rather than Dolby 2.0.
Set the bit rate to 15,000 kbits/sec. Then hit OK


You should now see 100% (or close to 100%) Smart Encoding ratios for both video and audio, and your burn time should drop drastically.

If it were me, I would first try doing burns with a small file just to get all of these settings correct, and then set them as the default settings, rather than try to do the full length 50 minute disk each time. I would only do the 50 minute disk after I got all the other settings working properly to avoid a lot of wasted time re-rendering. Also note that you will need to use a dual layer disk to hold 15 Mbit/sec AVCHD for a 50 minute program. You don't want to waste a lot of these as they are still a dollar apiece or more.

Let us know how this all works out.

Larry


Hi Larry


Sorry I've been away from this for a while. But I made the changes you suggested and my ratios are still 0%. Any suggestions?

Jamie,

Please create a very short (maybe 10 second) clip and either email it to me or post it on a website where I can download it.

Since you camcorder is the oldest / very first AVCHD model, and uses 1440 by 1080 rather than 1920 by 1080 resolution for HD, I want to see what if any options I can find to avoid having the re-rendering penalties.

Thanks,

Larry

Jamie,

I privately emailed you my email address using this forum's mail system if you should choose to use this method to send me a short clip.

Larry

Hi Peter,

Does the stutter occur in the final video or in the time line?

So far, VSX2 has been just perfect for AVCHD, in some ways, surprisingly so. It's quite an inexpensive application - mine was an upgrade, even better an upgrade on sale.

I use VSX2 for a multitude of common tasks - ripping DVDs, DV to DVD Wizards (for legal work), it recognizes some of the more oddball CODECs conversions that come our way, too. I highly recommend it. For the low cost, I find it a no-brainer.

My best to all.

Mike


Hi, Mike. The sutter occurs in the final rendered video. Oddly, I don't seem to get this stutter with VS11+ or with Pixela bundeled software. I wonder if this problem only occurs with Canon HF100 produced video.

Larry, thank you for offering to take a look at my video. I will post an example soon.

I've tried Nero Vision with Nero 8, and I am not able to edit my HF100 AVCHD and then smart render it. I am able to smart render if I don't do anything to the original clip. But if I make some cuts or trims, and try to create the HF100 file structure saved to my computer, the smart render is always at 0%. I also noticed that I can't set the video bit rate any higher than 14000 kb/s. But, in previous posts by Larry, he has recommended folks setting it to 15000 kb/s. I know that the max bit rate of the HF100 is 17000 kb/s, so I feel that I would want to set it to that. Any input is appreciated. Thanks.

Peter,

I leave the Automatic Smart Encoding mode set to the default settings and my HF100 content is output at the same bitrate as the original. I agree that that the manual settings seem to indicate otherwise, but the resulting video and audio, as reported by 3 players I have here, all maintains the very same unmodified video and audio bitrates. I would just leave it set to the default.

As regards re-rendering, it appears that merging clips, using unmodified clips, or trimming clips from either end causes no re-rendering. Removing a central region of a clip does indeed force re-rendering, as would the expected things like color changes, sharpening, titling, etc. Is your experience different?

Larry

Hi, Larry. I was doing more to the clip than you have stated. Mainly, I was cutting portions out and putting them in other areas. So, I guess this explains the re-render. Maybe this is also what's causing the blips in VSX2. If I simply trim and rearrange clips, maybe I won't get the blips/stutters. I have some test clips from VSX2 if you wouldn't mind taking a look at them. I have one clip created by Pixela that has no stutters and an almost exact replica created by VSX2 and it stutters at cuts. My email address is in my profile, so if you send me your email address, I think I can send 20mb files via my gmail account. Thanks for your help.

Hi Pete,

I've sent you my email address. Please send me the clip(s). Gmail should be able to handle the attachment.
Larry

Hi Larry. I'm not up on all the file sharing sites, so I emailed the
two files to a new gmail account. Can you please login to that
account and retrieve them?

The url is: mail.google.com
The id is: sharing.file919
The pw is: sharing.file

There are two files. One is made with Pixela, and the other with
VSX2. You can see that the Pixela file does not stutter before/after
a cut and the VSX2 file does.

Thanks for your help.

Peter,

I have downloaded the files and confirmed the glitch you reported. It is quite possible that you have VideoStudio set for non AVCHD projects and thus a transcoding is required as the file is first converted from AVCHD into the VideoStudio project format and then once again transcoded as it is being output as AVCHD.

I have attached a screen shot showing you how the Project Properties need to be set, namely, the same as AVCHD from your camccorder. I can't tell you why Corel doesn't set this as a default or retain it once it has been set from one project to the next, since many people are now using AVCHD. Instead, it defaults to standard 720 by 480 DVD format.

The settings may be the reason for your problem but I am not entirely sure, as I am not an expert in this program.

I do not see the glitch you are experiencing on any edits I do here.

More info can be found at my post#9 at thread:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/avchd-format-discussion/134942-video-bitrate-avchd-raw-clips-vs-rendered-files.html#post945224


Let me know if I can help you further.

Best,

Larry

Thanks for the advice, Larry. I tried a lot of different combinations, but was unable to fix the stutter problem. I wonder if it could be my computer. Can you give me your computer specs? I have and AMD 5400+ dual core, 7600GT video card, 2gb ram.

Peter,
Your hardware is most certainly marginal for AVCHD playback, and many people, myself included, recommend ONLY a quadcore for smooth AVCHD playback.

I had assumed, since you were apparently playing AVCHD from Canon's Pixeal, that your hardware was adequate for the task, but it may not be.

I do see the "glitch" in the VSX2 file you provided, but this does not appear to be stutter. Rather, it is a flaw in the way the clips were joined, either as a result of some transcoding error, or perhaps some other bug in VSX2 which I have not personally encountered. This glitch should not be dismissed as a stutter arising from marginal hardware, and it is entirely visible on my machine, which plays AVCHD with ease.

This still leaves us with no explanation as to what the problem is which you are experiencing.

I ask you to do 2 things:

1. Post a copy of your original .mts file from your Canon camcorder which can be a small, short clip, which I can edit here in VSX2. This should NOT come from Canon Pixela, which adds its own processing to the clip; rather, it should come directly off your camera's SD card, from the STREAM folder in the BDMV folder in the AVCHD folder. This is raw AVCHD. Note that this forum directly supports fairly large attachments to each post, and therefore you need not use gmail as an intermediary way to send things. I believe you can attach at least a 50MB attachment here, perhaps larger. The file attachment screen tells you the actual limit for such files.

2. Strongly consider posting your specific issue regarding this "glitch" on the Corel / Ulead support forum. There are a lot of people there who know much, much more than I do about VSX2. I am very glad to try to help you, but I am NOT your best and most knowledgable resource, merely somebody trying to help somebody else out.

I will, of course, continue to try to help, and will use your raw clip to see what results I get with it here.

Best,

Larry

Hi, Larry. Oddly, my computer plays AVCHD fairly well through Windows Mediaplayer or PowerDVD. It's not at full frame rate, but it's close.

I have discussed this at the Corel/Ulead forum, but the consensus there is: this is a bug in VSX2 that EVERYONE is experiencing. That's why I was so surprised that you are not experiencing it.

I've attached the raw MTS file from my flash card. What I did to edit it is:
1) Trim a few seconds off the beginning and end of the clip.
2) Split the clip in half.
3) Move the second half to the beginning of the project and the first half to the end.
4) Smart render.

The forum is having trouble uploading the MTS file, I will try to get it to you some other way.

Thanks for the update Peter. You can also use the gmail approach if this forum does not appear to allow you to send the clip.

The smooth playing of AVCHD on your machine is unusual. I am guessing you do not have full 1920 by 1080 resolution playback. AVCHD CAN be played on many lower power systems without problems if the frame rate is dropped, the resolution is lowered, or especially if both are true. Or perhaps your video card has full rez 1920 by 1080 HD acceleration, which some video cards provide. This allows lesser CPU capacity.

Regarding the splicing glitch, I just have not seen it but now will go over to the Ulead/Corel forum to find what others have had to say. This is a very major bug making VSX2 very unusable if it is affecting a large group of people, and I really have not seen it here for whatever reason.

I will wait to hear from you regarding the sample clip, but it now sounds like your camcorder video is not really the culprit.

Larry

Larry, I emailed a similar file to the account mentioned previously. It's a bit shorter than the previous file so that it can fit in Google's size limitations. Thanks again for your help.

By the way, one of the contributors to the VS forum has already notified the company of the issue, and they claim to be researching it.

In doing some tests, I think I have found a fairly good solution. If I run the clip (uneditied) through Nero Vision, and smart render it, it turns the file into mt2s. Then, when I import that into VS and edit it, it appears that the blips do not occur on the edited/finished product. I am noticing a very slight degradation in quality, but maybe I can live with that. But, again, I do not understand why you are not having the same problem as me with the raw MTS files.

Hi Peter,

I downloaded 00035.MTS and made an AVCHD with 2 duplicate clips separated by a fade. I do indeed see the same glitch / "blip" you and others report. It is very obvious.

I went back to look at the videos I made with the HF100 and VSX2 Pro and found that the camera was set for 30 progressive rather than 60 interlaced. These show no blip or glitch

I think you will discover that if you set your camera to record progressive frames that your problem will disappear. The video quality is superb.

This is indeed a bug in the software, but one that I had not excperienced until you brought it up.

I think this is a really solid workaround, but presume the Corel will ultimately fix the problem for those shooting 60i frames.

Hope this helps!

Best,


Larry

Great deduction, Larry! I will double check by testing it, but I'm sure you're right. So, I guess the solution to the VSX2 stutter problem (at least for straight cuts - not sure if this solves stutters before and after transitions) is:

1) Record in 30P

or

2) Record in 60i, then smart render the raw file through Nero Vision, then edit in VSX2.

Peter,

Hopefully Corel will fix this nasty bug soon but the workarounds are as you state. I want to clarify, for those who may read this thread, that "stutter" is really a different issue, and not a Corel-specific one. The problem we have been discussing is a stitching / splicing error specifically occuring at the joining of two files when some transitional effect is used between them, and people on the Corel / Ulead thread call it a "blip" and I have called it a "glitch". This is a brief and isolated event due to a programming error by Corel.

Stuttering is the jerky, unsmooth, delayed / interrupted playback of AVCHD arising (most often) from inadequate playback resources such as:

--too slow a processor

--an inadequately sized / improperly specificed playback buffer

--a poorly written codec for video, audio, or both

--improper muxing of the video and audio

--too little RAM

--bad display driver software

etc., etc., etc.....

Sorry for being long winded, but we are dealing with only a glitch or blip here (unless your computer is also stuttering for some reason such as the ones listed above).

Best,

Larry

Also Peter,

I would appreciate it if you would report back here with your confirmation, after you have had a chance to go into the camer menu and change the frame rate to 30p and re-do your short experiment.

Thanks,

Larry

I tried using VSX2 to smart render edited 30p and I am still getting the blips. Larry, can you try to reproduce the blips using 60i on your HF100? I will try to run some more tests.

Peter,

60i from my Canon HF100 produces the same blips on my system as they do on yours, but 30p frame rate has no evidence of blips whatsoever for the 2 trials I've done here. If you want to send me another clip taken with your HF100 at 30p I will be glad to use it to make another trial run here, and see how it goes. Try to keep your clip in the 6 or 7 MB size range so that the finished movie I send back to you will be no more than 14 or 15 MB including the transition I add at the middle.

Larry

Larry, I sent a couple more files to the email. One is the 30p MTS and the other is the edited 30p item. In regard to transitions: I've heard that transitions on HF100 MTS files are an insurmountable bug with VSX2 because they always cause blips. I am merely having problems with straight cuts.

I've also sent to the email a 60i clip that was smart rendered by Nero, then edited and smart rendered by VSX2. Although the blip is gone, I notice a distinct fast motion artifact where the blip would normally occur. It seems that when VSX2 uses the Nero file it is smoothing over the blip by using a fast motion artifact. I am sure that the pan was steady, so the fast motion you see before the cut is likely created by VSX2.

I did a test where I took a 30p HF100 file, smart rendered with Nero, then edited and smart rendered with VSX2. This one looks pretty much artifact free, although my weak computer stutters a bit during playback, so I may not be noticing some very small problems. I think I will stick with this workflow barring any revelations that anyone has. Thanks again for all your help, Larry.

This is a really interesting set of files Peter. I do see a very small but noticeable flaw in the place formerly occupied by the blip, and it too is a stitching / splicing error but far less noticeable. Your test clip is an extremely revealing one, since the graduated measuring tape as well as the linear motion of the pan clearly shows flaws in both the correct fitting of the splice spatially as well as the uniform motion (or lack thereof) temporally. The videos I used for my VSX2Pro work were far less revealing since they contained mostly boating scenes from the summer I made while on the water. The motion of the waves and the boat and people did not allow for such accurate and precise inspection, nor did they reveal the flaws in joining or lack of totally linear rendering of the splice.

It may be reassuring for you to note that I do not see any stuttering in any of your samples, and attribute the stutter to your hardware. The blips are there for sure, but are masked (only for 30p) by "normal" video clip content which lacks the frames of reference you have chosen.

The Nero work-around does help, but adds another step, and slightly degrades quality.

I am going to do a little more experimentation here, but think perhaps we are both in agreement that VSX2Pro has a problem which is, in the case of 60i with the HF100 clearly visible, with 30p visible with the right type of stressing clip, and next to invisible otherwise. Not a great conclusion to arrive at.....

I am going to go back and take a look at Cyberlink Power Director, another low cost AVCHD program I use a lot here, and see how it handles the very same clip and splice. I will let you know.....

Best,
Larry

Peter,

I have just sent you a Cyberlink PowerDirector 7 Ultra clip using your original 00050.MTS 30p clip cut into 2 pieces and then arranged with the second part preceding the 1st part, then smart rendered. How does it look to you?

Larry

Peter,

There is also a sample from Vegas 8 Pro I have made for you to look at using your clip in the same manner. Check the shared file gmail account.

Larry

The Vegas video seems to be much shorter than the other clips we have been looking at, but it is only 1.9mb.

The Power Director Video seems to stutter a bit, but maybe it is my player.

I think I will stick with HF100 30p smart rendered with Nero, followed by VSX2 editing and smart-rendering. I think I will try to cut at points where there is minimal camera movement, because static shots seem to camoflauge the artifacts.

Peter,

The Vegas sample is 18.88 MBytes, and I went to the Gmail account and downloaded it to my own machine just to verify the entire file was indeed uploaded. I am not sure why you are seeing a smaller file, since it is certainly 18.88 MBytes in length on Gmail.

The stutter you apparently are seeing on the Cyberlink Power Director sample is arising from your player / computer. The sample does not stutter at all on this machine.

The workflow you have settled on with Nero and Video Studio does work, but I would find it a bit cumbersome. Hopefully Corel will get the bug fixed soon.....

Larry

In that case, it sounds like Power Director is the way to go for HF100 AVCHD, providing your system satisfies the requirements. I will try the demo and see what happens. I'm a bit nervous that my computer isn't up to the system requirements. It's too bad that more video editors don't have the smart proxy system that VS has. That would allow a lot more computers to edit AVCHD.

Peter,

In the final analysis, if I could keep one and only one program for AVCHD, it would be PowerDirector 7 Ultra.

It did not get smart rendering added until recently in an update patch, and it was buggy when it was first released but now runs very smoothly. I'm not sure how well it will run on your system, but the download trial should answer your question in this regard. It seems to handle the HF100 exceptionally well, does really nice looking disks, and is mostly very intuitive to use.

Unlike some of the other programs I have used, it also does a gentle but very impressive manually specified and optional "sharpening" to AVCHD clips if you should chose to do so. This becomes desireable when other editing has been done (such as color balance changes or titling) where re-rendering is unavoidable. The sharpening results in the final rendering video looking indistinguishable in very fine detail from the original clip.

It most certainly is worth a download trial, and, in my opinion, unquestionably well worth the cost of purchase. I believe they also use a smart proxy and the mimimum hardware seems to be consistent with your system: "AVCHD and MPEG-2 HD Profiles: Pentium Core 2 Duo E6400 or Athlon 64 X2 5000+".
Larry

Hi Larry,

I've been using the trial version of PowerDirector 7 for a couple of days and I can't get smart rendering work. I'm assuming that's no enable in this version.

Can you please explain how you get SVRT to work in PD 7? Are you creating a custom profile or is the profile include in the full version?

Thanks,

Juan

Hi Juan,

It appears that the SVRT feature is always on, and I do not know of a switch you need to use to enable it.

You can show SVRT info by choosing the VIEW Menu and then selecting the SVRT info choice.

If SVRT is available for a specific clip, it has a green bar above it in the time line. If not, it has different color bars depending on whether video and audio re-rendering is required.

I have attached 2 screen clips which show:

1. The proper setting of the SVRT info panel to show AVCHD 1920 by 1080 HD SVRT

2. the SVRT time line with one clip in red and the other in green, showing the first will be re-rendered and the second will not.

I assume you are using AVCHD format video.

Be sure you are using the latest 2.2.2.7.c. release of Power Director 7 Ultra. Earlier versions do not provide SVRT for AVCHD. Cyberlink did not officially admit it was absent in the prior version nor did it advertise the fact that it was added for 2.2.2.7.c.

Hope this helps you,

Larry

Thanks Larry,

I can tell by the first screen shot that the TRIAL version of PD 7 does NOT include the AVCHD 1920X1080 profile. I did create a custom profile, but it's not added to the SVRT info panel, therefore no smart rendering present. In conclusion, you need to buy the full version to see SVRT working (what a shame cyberlink!)

I'm using m2ts files from my Canon HF-10 (1920X1080 - 17Mbps - 60i and 30p). I was sold with VideoStudio X2, but the infamous "blip bug" that you and Peter described here kills the deal. Do you think this bug can be fixed? Almost three months have passed from the first time somebody described this problem in their forums.

In PowerDirector, is the bitrate in my files (17Mbps) an issue to get smart rendering working?

Thanks again.

Glad to help you Juan!

One other possibility is that the trial version isn't version 2.2.2.7.c. If it's any earlier, then SVRT for AVCHD will not be present. Cyberlink was a bit deceptive in the way they initially boasted of AVCHD smart rendering, but it only recently has been added.

It's really hard for me to tell how Corel will deal with this bug in VideoStudio X2 Pro which Peter and others discovered. Although there are a lot of people now complaining about it on their forum, some of us using non-default camera settings never noticed it. Since Corel only took over ownership from Ulead fairly recently, there is also some question about the continuity of support going forward. I do not recall ever seeing it in version 11.5, and it may only be a problem with the X2 release for all I know.

The bitrate of your HF10 is exactly the same as my HF100, and all the smart rendering programs including Corel, Cyberlink, Nero, and ArcSoft handle it with no problems. The newer HF11 higher bitrate of 24 Mbits/sec may be an issue and until I get a higher bitrate camera and do some testing myself, I do not yet have an opinion on this higher rate.

Hope I have been of help to you.

Larry

Juan, you may need to change the Aspect Ratio in the view menu to 16:9 in order for the 1920x1080 option to show up.

I bought the full version of powerdirector, and I am noticing a quality loss, even when I set the max bit rate to 20K. (For some reason it doesn't allow you to set the avg bit rate above 14.8K which is less than the HF100's max of 17k - maybe this is the problem). It seems to be smart rendering the whole project but I noticed it takes much longer than VSX2.

I think I will stick with my Nero Vision to VSX2 workflow given that the PowerDirector video quality seems slightly degraded.

Larry, do you notice degradation in PD? It's most noticeable on panning shots where some pixelation shows up.

Peter,

I think you may have Power Director misconfigured. My experience from comparing the three smart rendered outputs from VSX2 Pro, Nero Vision, and Power Director 7 Ultimate for a 3 minute 17 second video are as follows:

Corel: 79 seconds (2.5 time real time)
Power Director: 37 seconds (5.3 times real time)
Nero: 21 seconds (9.4 times real time)

(You will see in the speeds above why I absolutely LOVE smart rendering!)

Note that in my case it is Corel which takes the longest time by a factor of over 2X compared to Cyberlink Power Director.

In all 3 cases, the output file is 100% smart rendered, and is merely a rewrite of the original camcorder file with slight changes to headers and other non-video data.

The file sizes, just for reference, are:

Original file: 381,024 KB
Corel: 381,384KB
Power Director 7: 380,459KB
Nero: 382,794KB

I do NOT see any pixellation whatsoever, and strongy suspect that you are NOT smart rendering and also that your playback system which does, in some instances, stutter, may also be at the root cause of this pixellation.

Feel free to email me a short clip via the method we previously used if you want me to see if pixellation occurs, but it is appears that some setting in your configuration is not correct if PD7 is taking longer and also producing such effects, since the smart rendering should NOT cause any structural change to the file or its GOPs.

Larry

Juan, you may need to change the Aspect Ratio in the view menu to 16:9 in order for the 1920x1080 option to show up.

Thanks Peter, I spent 3 hrs trying to figure that out, I bought the full version of PD 7 Ultra too.

Larry, in my testing I'm using a 17 seconds clip, so far my experience is as follow:

1. Clip repeated 3 times, NO transitions, NO titles - 100% smart rendering, extremely fast.

2. Clip repeated 3 times, transitions included, No titles - smart rendering present only in the first clip, time elapsed (mm:ss): 02:37

3. Clip repeated 3 times, transitions included, title include in the 1st clip - I'm absolutely sure NO smart rendering at all, time elapsed (mm:ss): 03:56

hopefully this is just a configuration problem, otherwise the program would be useless to edit AVCHD from Canon cameras.

Juan,

I did your 3 trials, and found smart rendering to take place in ***ALL 3*** cases, with the transitions adding some extra delays as woiuld be expected.

Note the attached jpeg showing the smart rendered time line in green for the clips and red for the transitions.

I took 21 seconds for the 3 clips with no transitions, and 87 seconds for the 3 clips with all transitions.

Larry

Thank's Larry, I noticed that you clip is a little bit longer (30 s) than mine (17 s), perhaps that's my problem. I will try with a longer clip.

I get exactly the same smart rendered time line than you, however my experience was as described in my last post.

Shorter clips (17 seconds) also seem to work properly here....

Larry, I tested with a 30 second clip, and unfortunately I got the same results. When transitions are added just the first clip is smart rendered. In the final movie, the first part (clip smart rendered) show the same quality as the original (obviously), but the 2nd and 3rd part show some pixelation as described by Peter.

Let's check settings. In the Production Wizard (Produce tab), Step 2:

- AVC.MPGE4
- Profile: Default
- Profile name/Quality: AVCHD 1920 x 1080
- Use SVRT to save rendering time: checked

Juan

Note: Unfortunately, I can't attach images.

Is it possible that you have Dolby 5.1 checked? This causes re-rendering since the camera audio is Dolby 2.0.

Do you have a player which shows the playback bitrate, such as the Nero Showtime player? I am wondering if the video you are rendering has the same bit rate for the 2nd and 4rd clip as it does for the first clip?

For whatever it is worth, the encoding progress indicator does NOT move across at a linear rate during the Produce Movie process. It moves to about a third very quickly and takes a lot longer to do the remaining two thirds. My total time is still way shorter than yours, and my encoded bit rates are consistent across the 3 clips, as is the video appearance / quality.

Larry

I don't have Dolby 5.1 checked, but in that case the program would re-render just the audio.

I did check the movie in Nero Showtime and the bitrate in the 2nd and 3rd clip are considerably lower than the first clip.

During the rendering process, my test has the same behaviour that your test: "It moves to about a third very quickly and takes a lot longer to do the remaining two thirds"

IMHO, all this would indicate that just the first clip is using "smart rendering".

As for the rendering time, your computer is probably faster than mine (pentium dual core).

Anyway, I have no explanation for your results: consistent bitrates across the 3 clips and the good video quality, so there's hope.

Juan

Juan,

I'm still trying to see what your situation is. I mentioned Dolby 5.1 only because I thought it might account for your longer render times, not that it would impact video rendering. My CPU is faster and there may be some use of the CUDA GPU for some of this speed increase as well, since the 2.2.2.7c version uses my nVidia graphics card for some functions.

When I carefully watch the output video file, the 3 copies of the same clip all swing between around 14.3 and 15.5 Mbits/sec on the Showtime display. This is the very same as I see on the original clip. The 2nd and 3rd clips do seem to perhaps swing a bit more rapidly over the same range than the first clip, so perhaps there actually is some difference in the way a smart render occurs after a transition has been processed. This is not a dramatic difference, and I wonder if you are actually seeing a true drop in bitrate for the 2nd and 3rd clip, or just seeing something like I am here.

My render time increases in a logical way as I increase the transitions from 0 to 1 to 2. About 20 seconds to do the 3 clips with no transitions, 53 seconds for 1 transition, and 88 seconds for both transitions. I assume that each clip takes about 7 seconds and each transition takes about 34 seconds. I am using "Dissolve Mild" transitions, and assume that your selected transition takes shorter or longer times based on the complexity of the specific effect you happen to chose.

Hope this helps.

Larry

Hey Larry. Need your expertise. I have Nero 9 and have tried to burn AVCHD footage shot with my SR11. I can capture the footage OK, and can move it down to the timeline. But when it comes to burning an AVCHD DVD, only the first shot (file?) is burned, but none of the others. I have even pushed the red button below the preview screen so that the entire program plays smoothly on the proview screen before trying to burn. So what is going on? How can I burn a complete AVCHD DVD from multiple files (shots) and have them show smoothly and completely?

Thanks.
Mike

Mike,
How do you know that the burned disk only has the first clip? Could the disk be complete but your player is not working right?

Check the STREAM foldet and see how many clips are there.

Larry

Hi Larry. I figured it out, although I am not sure if I remember how I did it. No, the disk was not complete. For whatever reason, the program would only burn just the first clip. Somehow I was able to blunder my way through things and get a complete program burn.

Nero produces great sound in AVCHD, but as for the program itself, it isn't very intuitive. Being familiar with Pinnacle and Corel, I find I have problems finding things in Nero. Mainly it is just way different, but in many cases, the things I am looking for (going back to retrieve a project) are not on the page that is showing on my screen. You have to go back to a previous screen. Nero is just not all that user friendly. Another example is trimming of clips; much easier to understand with Pinnacle and Corel. And the package of editing tools in Nero is somewhat sparse. But the picture produced and the sound in AVCHD is wonderful.

I wish they would package their manual and include it with the program. I looked online and downloaded the manual, and I have to say, it isn't all that clearly written. The Pinnacle manual is much better done for their program, and they include it with the software.

Now if only I can remember what I did to get all the clips to be included and play smoothly end to end.

Thanks for your response Larry.
Mike

I agree entirely Mike that Nero does suffer from interface confusion. The "good news" is that it is rather easy to get used to, given the limited variety of choices compared to programs like Vegas, Final Cut, etc. And the "best news" is, as you now have witnessed, that it makes gorgeous looking disks, and is way faster than anything else on the market. I actually worte Nero and told them that if they were to properly creare a true NLE and disk authoring prigram like Nero Vision with a more comprehensive and intuitive feature set, that many people would buy it, since their core functions and quality are truly impressive. I, for one, much prefer the look of the video I get from Nero to that I get from programs like Final Cut and Vegas Pro. Pretty awesome considering that you get 8 other superb programs including a full blown Dolby 5.1 AC3 sound editor, an excellent player of Blu Ray, AVCHD, and other disks, etc. for the princely sum of $79.

Larry