An Important Note:

If you don't feel like plowing through the 1,200+
posts that constitute this thread, then please go to

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/sony-xdcam-ex-cinealta/138485-summary-sdhc-substitute-sxs-cards.html (updated 8 Dec. 2008)

for the short, concise version of what you need to know... and then
return here if you want to learn more about it and / or discuss it further.

I just thought of something.

Sony said, that for the 60GB disk drive to be supported by the EX1, they had to allow USB expresscard interface. Although they said it would not support 3rd party memory... Maybe it now does?

Does anybody have a Lexar memory card (or some other expresscard usb memory) available tro try with the 1.11 version of the camera?

Would be interesting to know.. If the card could write about 9 MB/s ( 70 mbits) it would be fast enough to take on overcranked footage as well..

So what I want to know is this:

Can you use a USB based SDHC reader and use fast SDHC cards?

Any thoughts? Anybody got one?

We know it doesn't work without 1.11. The point is, for the disk to work, they had to enable USB interface support through expresscard. So it _might_ work with the 1.11 :)

What they have enabled is the use of an Express card to USB adapter card. The PHU-60 is essentially a USB hard drive. It connects to the camera via USB and an Express to USB adapter card. I don't know whether the adapter card is a generic card Sony have re-badged or whether it is a Sony designed card. It may be possible to buy the PHU-60 and then use different hard drives, I don't know, but you would have to find a way to power the drive. As S&Q motion doesn't work with the PHU-60 I guess if you use anything other than an SxS card you will be limited to standard frame rates.

We know it doesn't work without 1.11. The point is, for the disk to work, they had to enable USB interface support through expresscard. So it _might_ work with the 1.11 :)

oK updated my cam to 1.11 purchased a Lexar 8gb express put it in the Ex1 message Format card poped up. Formated the card recorded at SP and HQ modes complete. I do not know if I would try recording a paid job with the after market cards at HQ mode. The only problem is the Sony external card reader will not read the Lexar express card SSD had to use my laptop.

so , any express card adapter to any kind of fast memory should work ?
CFExpressPro ExpressCard to CompactFlash Memory Card Adapter, (Compact Flash) Synchrotech (http://www.synchrotech.com/products-expc/expresscard-memory-card-adapters_01-compactflash.html)

or to usb hard drives ?

that would be great since a 120 gig hardrive cost nothing and is far faster than any memory.

oh my.... can you shoot some rippling water.... even at 720 60p and see if it holds up?

googling some express cards leads me to some cheap prices.... but the SSD SATA drives via a sata cable>express sata gets me excited!

So you are saying non sxs transcend 8 and 16Gb cards now work in the EX1?

If so thats a hell of a saving on sxs prices if the quality holds up.

So I was right with my theory ;) Good stuff

What about trying an ExpressCard SD reader and use the new fast SDHC cards?

They're cheap And writes 30 MB/s... (sandisk)

So I was right with my theory ;) Good stuff

What about trying an ExpressCard SD reader and use the new fast SDHC cards?

They're cheap And writes 30 MB/s... (sandisk)

So let me get this clear. You are saying put a 32Gb SDHC card into the ExpressCard sd reader and then push the ExpressCard SD reader into the SXS slot on the EX1 ( leaving the door open)

Is that right?

That's the theory. Are you sure you have to leave the door open?

I think some readers allow push in push out like the readers on many laptops..

You would have to leave the door open. I thought it would fit inside the adapter.

Amazon.com: SONY MSACEX1 MEMORY STICK(R) DUO EXPRESSCARD(TM) ADAPTER: Electronics (http://www.amazon.com/MSACEX1-MEMORY-STICK-EXPRESSCARD-ADAPTER/dp/B0014KO204/ref=sr_1_17?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1220274283&sr=1-17)

HI Brian, is that Sony one any better than this, or just a branded adaptor, because the price difference is large. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150289083497

That image probably shows the chip half way in. Would be no point to show a picture of it inside. Then you wouldn't see it.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

So I was right with my theory ;) Good stuff

What about trying an ExpressCard SD reader and use the new fast SDHC cards?

They're cheap And writes 30 MB/s... (sandisk)

This could work with an ExpressCard CF reader too... With a 233x or faster CF...

There is now to topics on the same topic. We should keep to one of them!

As I wrote in the other section. I don't think the CF reader would fit into the slot.

Oh, you can get the CF adapter in there, but the camera doesn't like it very much and I'd NEVER shoot with this much hardware hanging out of the camera. I got an "Unknown Media" message on the screen....no option to format or do anything else. BTW, that's the Delkin adapter.

Forgot to add that I used a Sandisk Extreme III card which, according to Sandisk, tops out at 30 MB/sec data rate.

Forgot to add that I used a Sandisk Extreme III card which, according to Sandisk, tops out at 30 MB/sec data rate.

And you are using the latest 1.11 firmware?

Nope, not that brave or rich. I can't afford any of the upgrades that 1.11 allows me to use.

Next thing we know... someone with 1.11 firmware will actually be able to use CF adapter to record on CF cards. Maybe?

This is all very interesting... Quite tempting to update firmware and try it out. Any idea whether sony will be able to tell/care if firmware was user-updated? guess they'd check the service history if i sent it in and realize my firmware was newer than it should be. im not really that interested in giving up my warranty.

Oh, you can get the CF adapter in there, but the camera doesn't like it very much and I'd NEVER shoot with this much hardware hanging out of the camera. I got an "Unknown Media" message on the screen....no option to format or do anything else. BTW, that's the Delkin adapter.

DITTO with 8gb Pro-duo will not work unknown media .
Amazon.com: SONY MSACEX1 MEMORY STICK(R) DUO EXPRESSCARD(TM) ADAPTER: Electronics (http://www.amazon.com/MSACEX1-MEMORY-STICK-EXPRESSCARD-ADAPTER/dp/B0014KO204/ref=sr_1_17?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1220274283&sr=1-17)

I am done ...I am using the Lexar 8Gb express card SSd for back up SP mode Only. Do not be surprised if Sony updates the firmware again and locks out the after market cards it can be done.

guys with EX1.
Can you please test whether Lexar 16 gig express card works? Record in 25mb/sec is good enough.

Here's a thought. I wonder if you can use a Sony/Sandisk SxS in Slot 1 to record to, then bump the data over to a cheap 16 or 32 Lexar in Slot 2 in camera to off load? Might be more convenient than a laptop in many situations, and the sticks are so cheap.

Has anyone tried the Lexar cards in an EX3 yet?

oK updated my cam to 1.11

I assume this is a "give it to your dealer" kind of thing to upgrade the camera?

Currently it is a "ship it to Sony" kind of thing.

George/

Perhaps I missed it, but aside from the discussion here about memory cards, etc. Is there any real information about what's different / better in firmware v1.11?

Get up to speed here: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/sony-xdcam-ex-cinealta/128059-new-ex1-firmware-out.html

George/

guys with EX1.
Can you please test whether Lexar 16 gig express card works? Record in 25mb/sec is good enough.

Yes SP mode only

Anyone tested the Lexar card in EX3?

If I have Sony 8GB in one slot and Lexar in second slot, can I record to Sony card and then copy to Lexar 16GB? Then record again to Sony card and copy a second time to Lexar card to fill it up.

I also wanted to confirm that with the 1.11 firmware upgrade the Lexar 16Gb SSD Express Card works just fine. Again however, it only works well in the 25mb SP mode. I also confirmed through testing with my camera that it will produce a card error after about 5 minutes in any of the HQ modes. The reason that felt compelled to post on this matter is because of the huge $$$ savings. I just picked up two 16GB Lexar cards for $169.00.
I was within one day of purchasing the 32GB Sony SxS card for $1499.00. That is a total savings of more than $1300.00. For anyone who does not need to shoot in the HQ 35mb
setting, I highly encourage you to spend the $100.00 on the upgrade, and save big on the Lexar SSD media. By the way, another nice benefit of the SP mode is that you get a total of 79 minutes of footage on one 16GB card. Nice!

Be careful AL these cards are not Certified ..I would not trust a paying job on them. Also the write speed is slower on the 16gb cards. I am only using them for backup only.

It's interesting you can even record video on these cards in the first place.

Did you read users' feedback on Amazon and Newegg about these Lexar 16Gb cards? Consensus seems to be that they are very slow even for the normal file transfer operations.

Hmm

I also wanted to confirm that with the 1.11 firmware upgrade the Lexar 16Gb SSD Express Card works just fine. Again however, it only works well in the 25mb SP mode. I also confirmed through testing with my camera that it will produce a card error after about 5 minutes in any of the HQ modes. The reason that felt compelled to post on this matter is because of the huge $$$ savings. I just picked up two 16GB Lexar cards for $169.00.
I was within one day of purchasing the 32GB Sony SxS card for $1499.00. That is a total savings of more than $1300.00. For anyone who does not need to shoot in the HQ 35mb
setting, I highly encourage you to spend the $100.00 on the upgrade, and save big on the Lexar SSD media. By the way, another nice benefit of the SP mode is that you get a total of 79 minutes of footage on one 16GB card. Nice!

Hi Al, as long as Lexar 16gig works ALL the time when record on SP mode i would live with that. How many times did you record using Lexar 16gig and fill up the card ?

If it works ALL the time using SP mode that would be great but if it works 95% of the time that would be unacceptable.

Hi Brian, I've got to say that it was you who got me on this Lexar kick to begin with. So thanks for that. Your lead has saved me a great deal of money this week. I know they are not certified, but they work. So far, I have only shot 60 minutes on one card. I do have several paying events next weekend, and I do intend to use these cards the entire time, or
until I get a error message at which point I will switch back to my 8GB Sony cards. I was just saying that so far these cards are working well for me and at 169.00 for 32GBs of Express card storage, I'm willing to take the chance. Yes, I second camera will always be running, but as soon as I fill up 79 minutes with no problems, I will be ordering two more of these cards.
I'll be certain to keep you all up to date on the outcome either way. Thanks.

Are there any faster cards than the Lexar? ( Obviously don't just say SXS!)

The faster the card the more chance of recording HQ mode.

Does anyone know where to get the lexar sxs cards in the uk ?
Preferably a shop rather than online.

Thanks.
Paul.

I've only been able to find transcend cards and these fail after only 30 seconds.

I've tested both Transcend 8gb card - fails after a few seconds and Lexar 8gb card which will record a full single file without errors, but if you stop and re start shooting over and over, you will get a request to "restore" the card randomly as well as more often when the card is close to full. This does not lose any data but is a bit of a drag.

Figures from HD Tach show:


figures are: random access ms / average read MB/s / burst MB/s

Transcend - 0.6ms - 23.6MB/s - 25.0MB/s
Lexar - 0.6ms - 32.7MB/s - 35.3MB/s
Sony SXS - 0.4ms - 49.0MB/s - 82.9MB/s

all 8GB cards

Bought my Lexar tax free UK airport, not sure if any of the high street shops do them.

Paul

Paul, when you get the message to restore (with lexar cards) what do you do ? Just ignore it and carry on pressing the record button ?

I looked on google and selected uk based websites only, i typed in "lexar 16 gb" in the search bar, quite a lot of websites and stores have them listed, i've rang a few but most seem to be out of stock.
Hopefully it won't be long before someone like maplin get's them in stock, they'll be readilly available then.

Thanks.
Paul.

When the "restore media" pops up, it also switches slot so you can carry on recording, but to restore you appear to have to go into "media" position, and then restore - all a bit of a pain really, but I'm still testing. I fear that the Lexar 16Gb cards are slower than the 8GB, certainly a recent test I read on the 32GB Lexar said "not reccomended" as it was so slow. I'm continuing my tests here.

Paul

Correct me if I am wrong here but is there a basic speed problem here, HD is 35mbs so trying to record at lower bit rates will cause problems:
Transcend 0.6ms 23.6MB/s 25.0MB/s
Lexar 0.6ms 32.7MB/s 35.3MB/s

The sony will be fine though!

Sony SXS 0.4ms 49.0MB/s 82.9MB/s

We're only trying to record to 1440 1080 sp with these cards, 25Mb/sec is the same data write speed as HDV and DV to tape, obviously HQ at 35Mb/s is something else.

25megabits per second is 3.125megabytes per second.

just so we know what we are talking about.

Therefore the Lexar should be fine.

We're only trying to record to 1440 1080 sp with these cards, 25Mb/sec is the same data write speed as HDV and DV to tape, obviously HQ at 35Mb/s is something else.

25megabits per second is 3.125megabytes per second.

just so we know what we are talking about.

Therefore the Lexar should be fine.

Agreed i understand now, I use the transcend 16gb cards with my Z7 for HDV and they are fine.

I've been thinking about getting 8gb cards instead of 16gb, if one card goes down then it's less footage lost.

So if it appears that the 16gb's are slower the i'll go for the 8gb's, i'll just buy twice as many.

Paul.

I tried a Sandisk EXIII 8GB SD card with a 12in1 expresscard reader. Did not work. It said unknow media before I even inserted the SD. Anybody tried the sony EX MemoryStick adapter?

Is it possible to copy clips recorded at HQ or over-cranked from the Sony SxS to the Lexar SSD card in the EX1? If yes, did it take very long? Thanks.

Transcend express cards do not work. The will record for a few minutes then throw up a media error. When you try to restore the card it also fails. There is no way to recover the media, you have to re-format in a PC.

I have today filled a couple of Transcend 8Gb class 6 SD cards with 25P HQ and 720P50 material without any problems. I used a Kingston Express card to 7 way card reader/adapter. All purchased from Amazon UK. The SD cards are a lot faster than the Express SSD cards.

I have today filled a couple of Transcend 8Gb class 6 SD cards with 25P HQ and 720P50 material without any problems. I used a Kingston Express card to 7 way card reader/adapter. All purchased from Amazon UK. The SD cards are a lot faster than the Express SSD cards.


Can you send some links please.
I've found the memory cards but not the reader, i presume the class 6 sd card goes into some sort of adaptor which then goes into the camera.

Also what sort of money did it all cost.

obviously firmware update is needed for this.

Thanks.
Paul.