What Kensington needs to do (or sandisk) is make an SSD card with the innards of a sandisk SDHC and the outtards of a Kensington reader. We know it works. How many would you buy at $60-70 each?

Duh.

Not sure I'd buy any.

Frankly, I'm not against working with SD cards - I can keep track of the little buggers by using a nice card holder and labelling them. Also, I like the added flexibility that I can remove the SD card and slide it into my card reader on the front of my workstation or the SD card slot on my notebook. I think I may just keep buying $40 16GB cards, and eventually maybe a couple 32GB cards.

What Kensington needs to do (or sandisk) is make an SSD card with the innards of a sandisk SDHC and the outtards of a Kensington reader. We know it works.
No-one will gonna do that, facing just lots of legal problems, patent claims and so forth.
What would be the benefit for the manufacturer? More business? How much to justify the hazzle involved?


Why not go the other way round and build larger camera door? That must be cheaper
then any other solution, fit SxS cards as well as SDHC solutions and would not interfere with Sony's patents :-)

I'm willing to bet we find a new expresscard SDHC reader that allows the EX1 memory door to close in the next few months.

As it stands now, there are already a few that allow it to close. They just are erratic and error.
Also, many could care less the door closes. Some even buy the Sony PHU-60K for a LOT more. This also does not allow the door to close.

Anyone tried these on the EX1?
A-Data E704 32GB Dual Interface Flash Drive - USB 2.0 and ExpressCard! A-Data 70CBEC0016 (http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=70CBEC0016&cat=DMC&cpc=APM)

Ethan, it'll look great if these flash drives

- have high enough bandwidth
- are reliable
- and hopefully, fit in so EX1 door would close

Anyone knows the specs? Geeks web page does not seem to say much.

Frys has those Adata SSD cards (w/ USB port) all the way up to 32GB.

A month ago I tried the 16GB version. The EX1 gave an incompatible media error.

My Kensington 7-in-1 Expresscard 34 arrived today (my Sandisk 16GB Ultra II SDHC card arrived at the weekend).

Put it all in slot 1 of my EX3, closed the door .... :-) and then turned the EX3 on. So far so good.

Then I got a message asking me to format the card so I did. Then I got a "media error, cannot format" type error.... :-(

Turned it off, unplugged everything, re-mounted everything and after 3 unsuccessful goes at this it finally formatted successfully. EX3 now shows 58mins available in slot 1 ...back to :-) !!!!

Recorded a few quick clips and everything now seems to be OK. I'll certainly put it through it's paces before I'll trust it with an hours worth of important clips though.

Did anyone else get a worrying introduction to using SDHC like this?

Well I promised to report back on this. It's still early days but everything is working fine. Did a lot of 1920x1080 (25p) filming today with SDHC and just used a SxS for some 60fps slow motion (1280x720) stuff. I did not try and push over-cranked clips onto SDHC as this will surely risk a data error if I went close to an approx 50fps limit or above as well reported by others. Just reviewed all clips on MBP etc. etc., everything working exactly as expected. So far, so good! Very happy!!!! I will test the over-cranking limit on SDHC when I get time (on non-critical stuff) and report that soon.

Glad to hear its working for you Andy.

I've opened up an AFT Express adapter, in which the SDHC fits snuggly and the door of the EX1 closes - next I'm gonna trash a Kensington and see if I can marry them - not sure I have the tiny soldering gear needed!!

Still using 8 SDHC combo's daily, no errors and I'm getting close to pulling the silly door right off.

Paul

Paul, let us know how that project pans out.
I located this resource for the push/push media a while back. Maybe you can make use of it.

How hard was it to open the AFT up?

I have not tried. Gives us an idea how.

Finally got around to ordering the kensington/sandisk, should be here in a week.


me so excited

This is an image of the two cards private parts! The Kensington is above and the AFT below. It is simple to see why the Kensington cannot accept the SDHC fully in, it has more sophisticated electronics than the AFT.

Whilst the AFT accepts the card, it doesn't work - even giving errors when copying files from a card to my laptop through the express card slot.

For those who are concerned: No cards where subject to cruelty during these tests and both cards still function as normal.


Paul

So based on your internal image of the Kensington, it uses a Genesys Logic USB 2.0 Flash Card Reader Controller GL827

Genesys Logic (http://www.genesyslogic.com/_en/product_01_1.php?id=26)

So if we can find an expresscard card that offers this controller and has a push/push media connector, this may be the "magic" combo.

This weekend I was shooting a drag race out at the sand dunes. In a rush I forgot to switch to my SXS card and I was shooting 720 30P in 60p slow motion mode. That is the highest bitrate setting isn't it?

Anyway, I shot a few races before I realized I was using the SDHC combo... worked fine for the short races.. 600ft with a top speed of about 70mph. (uphill in the sand)

Tested my EX3 with Kensington 7-in-1 and Sandisk 16GB Ultra out this morning at different frame rates in 720p. Waved the camera around for 5 minutes in a "busy" room so lots of fast motion of complex detail

45 fps - fine
48 fps - fine
50 fps - media error after about 3 minutes on one occassion, fine for 5 minutes second time.
52 fps - media error after about 20 seconds on both occassions
55 fps - media error after about 5 seconds
60 fps - media error almost instantly.

This seems to confirm MOST of the experiences of others except my SDHC is maybe slightly on the lower end of performance. Want to swap cards with me Erik!!!! :-)

(EDIT: To clarify regarding Ted's comment below I'm in PAL land and the camera was set at 720 25p video format and then overcranked as described)

You must of been lucky.. lol

You were shooting 30P, right?

I've discovered different (lesser) results shooting 24P.

In 30P, I can shoot reliably at 52 - a full hour or starts and stops with no errors. In 24P, I can shoot at 41, but at 42 I get errors after about 25 minutes or so.

This makes sense, as the frames are "smaller" in 30P since 30 of them must fit into the same 35 Mbps stream as 24 frames do in 24P.

30P OC'd to 52 is recording at about 1.74x
41 OC'd frames at 24P is recording at about 1.74x

35 Mbps content overcranked 1.74x is about 60Mbps

The EX3 (and presumably EX1) hits a wall after this. You might say overcranking is "Gone in 60 Mbps" if you were into obscure movie reference puns.

ummm something must be going on then.. I just recorded about 30 seconds in 720X30p at 60fps overcranking using the kensington and 16gb Ultra II and it worked fine... shaking the camera like crazy too.

I am uploading some video right not for a project... but later this week I will make a video of my EX3 with only the kensington combo doing some overcranking for you guys.

EDIT: just filmed the TV (so there would be movement) for 3 minutes straight.. no errors. 60fps slow motion.

Mine arrived. It works great. I recorded some HQ 1080 24p and played it back in the camera with no problems. But for some reason, when I took the SD card out of the adapter and put it in my laptop nothing happened. My laptop can't see it. But it can see all my other scan disk SD cards. Any ideas why? Is it because it is formatted for the SxS system (the camera asked me to format it before I could use it)? I was hoping I would be able to off load my footage by inserting the SD card into my laptop as I don't have an express 34 slot, just 54. Although I heard you can also buy an adapter to read 34 cards in a 54 slot. Has anybody tried that, especially with the SDHC combo? Thanks.

But for some reason, when I took the SD card out of the adapter and put it in my laptop nothing happened. My laptop can't see it. Question 1: Which laptop are you working with?
Question 2: Is the SxS driver installed?

Stick an ExpressCard into a PCMCIA slot adapter? Would not do it ... just another chance to fail.
Hint:Think of Murphy's law ;-)

But for some reason, when I took the SD card out of the adapter and put it in my laptop nothing happened. My laptop can't see it.Because the card is not an SD card, it's an SDHC card, there is a difference, my laptop and pc both have an SD slot but none of them see the SDHC card.

I use the USB>SDHC adaptor for offloading on my desktop, or for the laptop either the USB>SDHC or leave the SDHC card in the kensington and then shove both in the express card slot.

Paul.

Question 1: Which laptop are you working with?
Question 2: Is the SxS driver installed?

Stick an ExpressCard into a PCMCIA slot adapter? Would not do it ... just another chance to fail.
Hint:Think of Murphy's law ;-)

Using an Acer 1714SMi. It reads any other SD cards I insert into it.
Yes, SxS driver and clip browser installed and I can see cards if I plug the camera.

About the 54 to 34 adapter I have heard of people who use it with success.
Thanks.

Because the card is not an SD card, it's an SDHC card, there is a difference, my laptop and pc both have an SD slot but none of them see the SDHC card.

I use the USB>SDHC adaptor for offloading on my desktop, or for the laptop either the USB>SDHC or leave the SDHC card in the kensington and then shove both in the express card slot.

Aha! That explains it.
Well, I only have a express card 54 slot (the bigger ones). Do you think it's worth it to buy a 54>34 adapter? Sounds more useful than a USB>SDHC adapter since with the express 54>34 I could also off load the original SxS cards.Thanks.

I can't give you an honest answer to that Michael, i've never used a 54>34 adaptor.
I don't really use my sony card any more, i use the transcend SDHC all the time now so i only use the SDHC>USB reader.
It offloads in about 4x speed.

Paul.

Michael, your laptop's SD slot may not understand SDHC cards.

Mine doesn't.

I offload my 16Gb Sandisk (http://www.amazon.com/gp/search?ie=UTF8&keywords=B0012W7HQK&tag=mo7iescom-20&index=electronics&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325) or Transcend (http://www.amazon.com/gp/search?ie=UTF8&keywords=B0010Z28XG&tag=mo7iescom-20&index=electronics&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325) cards by keeping them in the ExpressCard adapter (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/475428-REG/Kensington_K33407US_7_in_1_ExpressCard_Media_Reader.html/BI/2187/KBID/2932) (laptop does have a very well-working ExpressCard slot.)

I can't give you an honest answer to that Michael, i've never used a 54>34 adaptor.
I don't really use my sony card any more, i use the transcend SDHC all the time now so i only use the SDHC>USB reader.
It offloads in about 4x speed.

Paul.

Thanks. Which SDHC>USB reader do you recommend?
I still need to use my SxS as I do a lot of slow motion.

Michael, your laptop's SD slot may not understand SDHC cards.

Mine doesn't.

I offload my 16Gb Sandisk (http://www.amazon.com/gp/search?ie=UTF8&keywords=B0012W7HQK&tag=mo7iescom-20&index=electronics&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325) or Transcend (http://www.amazon.com/gp/search?ie=UTF8&keywords=B0010Z28XG&tag=mo7iescom-20&index=electronics&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325) cards by keeping them in the ExpressCard adapter (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/475428-REG/Kensington_K33407US_7_in_1_ExpressCard_Media_Reader.html/BI/2187/KBID/2932) (laptop does have a very well-working ExpressCard slot.)
Thanks Alex.

Michael, i got my SDHC reader with the transcend cards which i use.
I paid £25 for 16gb card or £30 with a reader.
The reader is about the size of my thumb, doesn't require any mains power like the sony reader, and no driver is needed, it's just plug and play usb.
I got mine from an ebay shop which happens to be about 2 miles from my house, so i go and pay cash for them.
The ebay shop is called "shop4usb".
Me and 2 other EX1 users have all got our cards and readers from there, none of us have had any problems.

What you can do is copy the slo-mo from the sxs card to the SDHC card in camera, then offload with the USB>SDHC reader, that way you don't need the express card slot or 34/54 adaptor or anything.

Paul.

Aha! That explains it.
Well, I only have a express card 54 slot (the bigger ones). Do you think it's worth it to buy a 54>34 adapter? Sounds more useful than a USB>SDHC adapter since with the express 54>34 I could also off load the original SxS cards.Thanks.

Michael,

Most of those accept both size cards. Peek into the slot or look in the laptop manual.

John

yes, a PCIe 54 slot will accept a 34 sized card without an adapter. the internal electrical contacts are identical. only the outer slot width is changed.

I made this video for you guys. I shot my EX3 using my Sr11 and did some overcranking tests. 720x30p at 60fps, using only an Ultra II SDHC and my two kensingtons. I tried both adapters... both worked... I've done this (by mistake) on a real world shoot so it appears to work.

Any ideas?

it's converting now.. (EDIT: video is up)

PMW EX3 SDHC combo overcranking test on Vimeo (http://www.vimeo.com/2219494)

When using the Kensington/SDHC card, are you asking why overcranking 30P at 60FPS works, but does not when overcranking 24P at 60FPS.

If so, it's due to max datarate via the SDHC combo and how Sony has "probably" limited the USB datarate over the expresscard slot.

Comparing the ratio 30/24, the written datarate for overcranking 24P is about 25% higher than overcranking 30P. This probably explains why you can overcrank 30P at 60FPS.

But, bear in mind you are probably "hanging on the edge" of running out of headroom at this written datarate. I would stick to SxS for overcrank. slo-mo effects "usually" are a VERY small percentage of overall captured footage.

Erik,

I was able to shoot up to ten minutes using a variety of settings. Some failed shortly after ten, some failed more quickly. For testing, I FILLED a 16GB card with ten second clips first (which took a while) to test the cards ability to handle a bunch of smaller clips and not error. Then, after that test, I FILLED a 16GB card (another hour) shooting the TV screen - motion video non-stop.

Many settings don't fail right away. They take a bit to error out. In order to thoroughly test a card combination, you have to consider the extremes under which they'll be used. You'll be able to achieve higher framerates overcranking 30p than you will with 24p. Either way, a two minute test is insufficient to determine results.

Have you tried overcranking for longer periods?

I don't really use the slo motion for longer than about 30 seconds at a time. I was just surprised that it worked at all with the SDHC at 60fps S&Q.. after reading this thread I just thought it would fail right away..

I wasn't looking to prove you guys wrong or anything, I was just showing that I was having some apparent good luck with my card. :)

I have read every post I can find on this whole adapter issue. and while it does sound like a great idea in theory, does everyone who is using it feel its solid? I am just hesitant to purchase only 2 8gb cards to find out I cant trust the SDHC card technique, and then have to order some more SxS cards.

I just see some threads as recent as last month that seem to be having issues recording in 1080p mode and losing clips every now and then....

it seems like a better choice for me would be to pick up the 60gb hard drive and call it a day (yea its expensive, but still cheaper then stocking up on 16gb cards).

does this sound like an accurate assumption, or do you feel the adapter technique is rock solid?

Ian...
I'm not sure how you got that impression.
I've been involved in a LOT of these posts from the start.

It's only hit and miss if you do not use the recommended expresscard media reader and SDHC card.

The Kensington 7-in-1 expresscard reader & 16GB SanDisk Ultra II 15/MBs SDHC cards works.
Also, the new 16GB SanDisk Extreme III 30MB/s SDHC cards also work.

I have these cards and four Kensingtons and have used them everyday for over two months and have never had an error.

The real problem IS you may not find a Kensington to buy. It appears over the last couple months, we've managed to buy up a lot of the Kensington 7-in-1 cards.

Just remember, these are not for overcranking. Use your SxS to overcrank.

It works. What more can we say, Ian?

Ian...
I'm not sure how you got that impression.
I've been involved in a LOT of these posts from the start.

It's only hit and miss if you do not use the recommended expresscard media reader and SDHC card.

The Kensington 7-in-1 expresscard reader & 16GB SanDisk Ultra II 15/MBs SDHC cards works.
Also, the new 16GB SanDisk Extreme III 30MB/s SDHC cards also work.

I have these cards and four Kensingtons and have used them everyday for over two months and have never had an error.

The real problem IS you may not find a Kensington to buy. It appears over the last couple months, we've managed to buy up a lot of the Kensington 7-in-1 cards.

Just remember, these are not for overcranking. Use your SxS to overcrank.


maybe thats where I am getting the thought. so just make sure its the kensington, and all will be well....thanks.

Yes,
The best deal is buying the 16GB SanDisk Ultra II 15MB/s SDHC cards. Do NOT buy these on ebay. There are fakes out these that will NOT work.
SanDisk Ultra II fakes - Google Search (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENUS291&q=SanDisk+Ultra+II+fakes&btnG=Search)

Stick to someone like B&H Video.

I want to second what Steven said - The Kensington is a must-have. I've had to order it as a backordered item on Amazon - took a couple weeks but they have fulfilled my order both times.

Also, the SanDisk Ultra II 16GB cards and the Extreme III 16GB cards - flawless and I can vouch for both.

Worthy of mention, however, many of us that have tried have had nothing but success with the Transcend 16GB Class 6 cards - I have a few. At least one person received a defective card, so apparently the quality control is better on the SanDisk. However, for half the price, it is a worthwhile consideration. Personally, I'll keep buying Transcend cards if they remain half the price and they continue to perform flawlessly for me. If I run into a bad one, I may change my mind.

7-in-1 Media Reader for ExpressCard« Slot, Kensington 33407 at PartStore.com (http://www.partstore.com/Part/ACCO%20Brands%20Corporation/Kensington/33407.aspx?s=froogle)

right one?

7-in-1 Media Reader for ExpressCard« Slot, Kensington 33407 at PartStore.com (http://www.partstore.com/Part/ACCO%20Brands%20Corporation/Kensington/33407.aspx?s=froogle)

right one?

That's the one. But charging $70 for a $40 item is a genuine rip-off.

it's bullet proof for normal HQ recording if you have the right combo... one of us would have had a failure by now..

That's the one. But charging $70 for a $40 item is a genuine rip-off.

yeah, just wanted to make sure I had it right. now to find it cheaper, and not backordered! hahaha.

Got my kensington/sandisk last night. been working beautifully

yeah, just wanted to make sure I had it right. now to find it cheaper, and not backordered! hahaha.

I ordered the 2 Kensington readers and Sandisk Extreme III memory from B&H. The readers were backordered and turned out to be a 3 week delay. My order arrived earlier this week, so B&H should have fresh stock. I also took delivery of 2 Kensingtons readers from Compusmart in Canada and those arrived in just under two weeks and so they also should have fresh stock.

As others have confirmed all works as expected. I was surprised to actually see the EX3 door close with room to spare once the card/reader are installed. The memory card sure are tiny to move around for off-loading but a minor inconvenience considering the price.

Yeah, good thing we aren't recording to MicroSDHC!

SanDisk | Products | Mobile Products | SanDisk microSD? and microSDHC? Cards (http://sandisk.com/Products/Item(2702)-SDSDQ-016G-A11M-SanDisk_microSDHC_16GB_Card.aspx)

At least one person received a defective card, so apparently the quality control is better on the SanDisk. However, for half the price, it is a worthwhile consideration. Personally, I'll keep buying Transcend cards if they remain half the price and they continue to perform flawlessly for me. If I run into a bad one, I may change my mind.

I've mentioned this earlier in the thread but I got a defective Sandisk UltraII that I got replaced from the vendor so Sandisks QC isn't perfect either.

Also - I just got my second adapter that has been out of stock for over a month. Appearantly they are still making them!

A few weeks ago I decided to go down the SDHC route for my EX3... and duly ordered my Kensingtons (which of course are out of stock everywhere... ).

At the same time I also purchased some very inexpensive "Unitek" readers on eBay (AU$6.43 which is approx US$4.00!!) with the view to using them just to off-load the data to a laptop so that I didn't need to tie up the Kensington adaptors... Lo and behold, they work in the camera!! Didn't want to come up and say anything until I'd given them a good workout... Done multiple card fills over a 3 week period - both long clips and short ones - and have not struck a problem running either 1080i or 1080p... Coupled with a Transcend 16G Class 6 SDHC card (AU$50) I have no problems capturing 1080i 50i HQ... Over-cranking on 720P is fine up to 52fps... Fails after about 15 sec @ 53fps... Now I'm keeping my Sony 8G and 16G cards specifically for over-cranking... 16G for less than AU$60!!

Okay, there is a down-side... in that the door covering the card slots doesn't close (even on the EX3...) by just the smallest amount... When I get brave (or maybe a cheap 2G card), I might have a go at filing down the end of the SDHC card in order to allow the door to close, but hey! I'm happy that these things work!! For "inside" shoots, they're great!

....just thought I'd share the info....

I just came across the Transcend Express/34 SSD units.

Does anyone think these even have a chance of working?

Transcend 32GB (MLC) Express Card/34 Solid State Disk SSD Transcend SSD 32GB (MLC) Express Card/34 Solid State Disk Detail Page (http://www.mydigitaldiscount.com/SPD/transcend-32gb--mlc--express-card-34-solid-state-disk-ssd-transcend-ssd-32gb--mlc--express-card-34-solid-state-disk--80000449-1193346160.jsp)

-Greg