Well it might be a good SQ card :) Got my UPS shipping confirmation, it will be here on the 8th.

True, unless the random or access time is to slow. You'll know soon.

Hey there is a 16GB SDHC CLASS 6 turbo ADATA card in town for 44 bucks. I will pick it up today and test it. If it fails I can take it back quickly.

Also there is a patriot 16gb card for 49 plus a 20 dollar rebate.

Erik,
I'm not sure if it will work. I picked up the 8GB ADATA class 6 version a while back. Its sustained write speeds were all over the place from 3.72MB/s to 10.68MB/s.
3.7MB/s write speed will definately cause a memory write error in the EX.


ADATA 8GB SDHC TURBO CLASS 6 (Crystal Disk Mark test):

Sustained data rate: Read: 18.64MB/s to 18.69MB/s Write: 3.72MB/s to 10.68MB/s
Random 512K file: Read: 17.96MB/s to 18.69MB/s Write: 2.70MB/s to 3.10MB/s
Random 4K file: Read: 3.57MB/s to 3.91MB/s Write: 0.033MB/s to 0.035MB/s

Since reliability and speed is a huge issue here, going with tried-and-true Sandisk cards is what I'd do.

If offload in the field is required, Sandisk 16Gb Extreme III 30MB/s.

If you can afford to just accumulate the cards and offload afterwards, or if for any other reason offload speed is not a factor, then get Sandisk 16Gb Ultra II 15MB/s. (latter I personally did not test but Steven did and liked, I think.)

Extreme is available here (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/580125-REG/SanDisk_SDSDX3_016GR_A31_16GB_Extreme_III_.html/BI/2187/KBID/2932) or here (http://www.amazon.com/gp/search?ie=UTF8&keywords=sandisk%20extreme&tag=mo7iescom-20&index=electronics&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325), and Ultra here (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/541404-REG/SanDisk_SDSDRH_016GR_16GB_Ultra_II_Secure.html/BI/2187/KBID/2932) or here (http://www.amazon.com/gp/search?ie=UTF8&keywords=sandisk%20ultra&tag=mo7iescom-20&index=electronics&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325).

That until other cards have a proven reliability record...

I hear you Alex.

I'm not sure how someone can not afford to buy a load of cards and offload later.

You could actually buy TWELVE 16GB Ultra II 15MB/s cards for the cost of ONE 16GB SxS.

Well, if possible, I'd still check and offload the footage in the field, just to make sure you actually got it.

Yes, you would not have to worry about copying it to another drive, but I imagine it may be smart to pop the SDHC in your laptop and verify the footage is OK.

...at which point you might as well offload it :)

But of course different people will have different workflows.

Yes, it really depends on what you're shooting.

If you're shooting a special event, you can only pray that all went well. It's not like you will have the event start over because you lossed your footage. Of course, this goes without saying.


No doubt you'd check your footage during set session work.

Where did you order it?

It's been known that there are fake Ultra II SDHC cards out there, so be careful.
Also, is it the Ultra II 15MB/s version?

Check this out:
SanDisk Ultra II fakes - Google Search (http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENUS291&q=SanDisk+Ultra+II+fakes)

You are the first to report an issue. It may be defective, or you bought a fake.

I absolutely trust the dealer. It is one of the largest on-line stores in scandinavia and definately has the real stuff. I only hope it is faulty... Any ideas on further tests?

It's obviously defective, or your Kensington is bad.

I can't make my SanDisk Ultra II 15MB/s or Extreme III 30MB/s fail in HQ modes.
I've been torturing these for over three weeks and can can not get them to fail.
In fact, I can't get them to fail running ovecrank at 40FPS which is around 8.3MB/s max.

HQ mode max is 5MB/s write speed.

Did you bother looking at links to images of real verses fake Ultra II?
Or, you just got a dud.

Run the Crystal Disk Mark utility for data rate test.

Thanks Steven. I have checked and as far as I can tell it is genuine. I have also run Crystal DMU. I monitored the metering and the results were fairly similar during on all five tests. These are the averages:

Read: 15.54, 15.13, 4.128
Write: 14.64, 3.59, 0.029

The problem does not seem to be write or read speed but more of a general stability problem. The strange thing is also that the camera tells me that media needs to be restored but it does not give me the option to do this. After recording and switching to playback mode I get an error. When I put the card into the computer Windows prompts me to format it...

My 8 GB Extreme III card still behaves perfectly so the adapter does not seem to be the problem. In fact I just recorded a more than 14 minutes long clip at 50/25 fps without errors (!).

Does anybody know of any other reliability tests that I can run? And also - can someone confirm that this exact card Sandisk Ultra II 16 GB works well in their setup?

A couple have already reported that the 16GB Ultra II 15MB/s SDHC does work fine without errors. Matt has reported using the 16GB Ultra II for 2.5 weeks with no errors using HQ modes.

The Digital Video Information Network - View Single Post - Media needs to be restored (PHU-60K) (http://www.dvinfo.net//conf/showpost.php?p=946117&postcount=12)

When you watched the Crystal Disk Mark test run, it runs each test five times. When it finishes, the program only lists the average. You have to write down each test as the program runs. So you should have a total of 30 data points.

But based on your overall average, it's strange it failed. I'd return it for another.
Since the Extreme III works, it seems like the Ultra II card is defective.

Hi guys,

this thread is as confusing as useful it is. FYI you are doing a pioneering work here (kudos to Steven mostly) in order to make EX-s even more affordable and release them from the price trap of the SXS cards.

It would be great to see a comprehensive analytic approach undisturbed by sideways info. Best to follow what scientific research does:

Once promising data pop up in a lab, others copy the approach and re-test it. If the test results in same end points in a few other labs, the results can be taken final and can be labeled as proven. (here: Kensington 7in1 with Sandisk Ultra II and Extreme III tried and proven to work in SQ and HQ by many)

But:

some things are not yet clear or hidden within the ocean of posts

- does it make any sense using more expensive Sandisk Extreme vs Ultra ?? If it does, what is the benefit using Extreme? No one ever said that.
- it is also not clear what is the difference between the various size cards, is the 16Gb same as 8Gb in both Sandisk lines or there is a difference, or we can safely say that ALL Ultra and Extreme cards available today can safely be used?

Once these questions are answered, the investigation might move forward - having a sound proven basis on using SD cards (Kensington 7in1 with Sandisk Ultra II and Extreme III as golden standard)

Then,

I would take the Kensington and try other cards in it for reliability.

Another tester would test the proven working cards (Sandisk Ultra II and Extreme III) with other card readers.

Then probably there would be a weekly update on the results and a sticky with the tested and working configs.

I would separately test overcranking with proven reader and SD card combos and see what can I get. (my EX3 is ordered, not delivered yet - thats why I cannot contribute more, but I have 2 Kensingtons and 2 16Gb Ultras already...)

Sorry, my intention is not to hijack this thread, I just spent the last night with reading it - there is a buzz in my head, and I don't know more than Steven knew after 3 days testing of his Kensington 7in1 with Sandisk Ultra II and Extreme III.

It would be great to see clearly, thats all I try to achieve.

Thanks a bunch.

I understand that Extreme III is faster offloading the data to PC than Ultra II.

(If you have a fast SLR camera, like D90, you can also use Extreme III in it for dual-purpose application.)

Also keep in mind that Cables Unlimited Card Reader IOC-9750 adapter (http://www.amazon.com/gp/search?ie=UTF8&keywords=IOC-9750&tag=mo7iescom-20&index=electronics&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325) works as well in my tests as Kensington does in Steven's.

Great to hear you will jump onto the XDCAM EX platform as well, Zsolt! I remember times we discussed our old, good V1E's..

I completely agree there is a need to tidy this thread up a bit, and perhaps make it a sticky...

I'm sorry I cannot contribute to it, but I'm waiting for my NanoFlash and will be buying my flash cards to be used with it more than with the EX1. Nevertheless, it's great to know that the promised alternative to those still expensive SxS cards IS finally there; many thanks to people like Steven at al for testing this.

Hall of Famers: Steven Thomas, Brian Rhodes, Keith Moreau :)

....I'm waiting for my NanoFlash and will be buying my flash cards to be used with it more than with the EX1.....

Piotr,

apparently your V1E made more money for you than mine for me :) I cannot afford going towards the NanoFlash route, I am totally broken after ordering my EX3 .... sigh

I just have realized that my Sandisk Ultra II 16Gb cards are Class 4

Does it mean they wont work? Funny thing is I cannot find any Class 6 Ultras in any reliable shops. (I never eBay for this kind of products)
Does Ultra come in Class 6 flavor at all or shall I expect only Extreme III to be Class 6

Thanks.

The Ultras are class 4 but have been proved to work fine. I am still waiting for delivery of a 32Gb Ultra 11. Paid for and meant to be in stock the last week in september, they are not even in the country yet. ( UK)

£89 for 32Gb!!! A bargain.

The Ultras are class 4 ....
£89 for 32Gb!!! A bargain.

Steve, exactly! This is why I ask questions. Call me a stingy bastard, but once I start saving I wanna save big :)

Disregard the classification for the Ultra II cards.

Since the minimum data rate is greater tha 6MB/s (Ultra min. is 15MB/s), SanDisk could of classified them in CLASS 6. Maybe they did this to market their Extreme in CLASS 6, who knows..

Right now, I'd say the right choice is to buy the Ultra II SDHC cards. The new Extreme III 30MB/s offers a slightly better off-load data rate when transferring to your PC. Both of these cards off load at around 20MB/s

My understanding is to access the new Extreme III 30MB/s data rate, additional coding must be written for the controller. SanDisk worked with Nikon to allow the 30MB/s to work with their new D90.

The Kensington 7-in-1 expresscard media adaptor is currently the number one choice for expresscard adaptor for the EX1 and EX3.

Right now the only confirmed SanDisk Ultra II SDHC cards are the:

4GB Ultra II 15MB/s SDHC card.
16GB Ultra II 15MB/s SDHC card.

I don't understand why the Ultra II's are only class 4 (4MB/s) when SanDisc rate the cards at 15MB/s.

I hear you on that Alister. Maybe to protect their Extreme III class 6 cards?

Just bringing this to the top... with Steve Thomas' testing....

The reader/adaptor (~ $40)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=workaround.jsp&A=details&Q=&sku=475428&is=REG

The 16GB Ultra II card (~ $74)
SanDisk | 16GB Ultra II Secure Digital (SDHC) | SDSDRH-016GR (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/541404-REG/SanDisk_SDSDRH_016GR_16GB_Ultra_II_Secure.html)

The 16GB Ultra III card ( ~ $170 )
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=workaround.jsp&A=details&Q=&sku=580125&is=REG

The obvious cost difference for Extreme II vs Extreme III and the fact that
the EX1/EX3 can't benefit from the extra speed of the Extreme III ( maybe a
future firmware upgrade ??? )

But folks that also have still camera setups that benefit from the Extreme III
speed will want to choose perhaps a little differently. ( Nikon D90, Canon 5D MKII )

Thanks Ray, I really wish I had access to or someone can test the following Expresscard to USB adaptor:

MicroU2E-MV USB 2.0 to USB Mode ExpressCard 34|54 Multi-Voltage Host Adapter, Synchrotech (http://www.synchrotech.com/product-usb/usb20_to_usb20_expresscards_host_adapter_microu2e-mv.html)

Test it using the Ultra II 15MB/s SDHC using the Crystal Disk Mark speed test utility.

This may help us understand where's the "bottleneck" for data rate with the Kensington/Ultra II SDHC combo.

Right now, using the Kensington / Ultra II SDHC combo in the EX, our overcrank calculations tell us we can write at no more than 8.3MB/s without an error.

We also know the Crystal Disk Mark utility shows we can write to the Ultra II SDHC card using a basic SDHC to USB reader at a sustained rate of over 15MB/s.

Now, if we use or combo in the above Synchrotech Expresscard to USB adaptor and we are able to measure using Crysal Disk Mark utility a 15MB/s sustained write, we will know that the problem is that the way Sony is writing and reading to the USB 2.0 data line. It's possible they crippled it to cap out at around 8.5 MB/s... Who knows... Or a programming issue?

OR, if the combo in this above Synchrotech expresscard to USB adaptor also caps out at 8.3MB/s, we'll know the problem is with the Kensington limiting the data rate.

I have a feeling the Kensington will fair fine and the problem will be the limitation either set by Sony or messed up by them on data rate write via USB 2.0.
This MAY also explain why their own video drive PHU-60K has memory errors.

BTW Ray, I see that link at B&H they are OUT of stock on the Kensington. LOL... I wonder why ;)

at B&H they are OUT of stock on the Kensington. LOL... I wonder why ;)

There are a few online stores (including big A) where you can find. Interestingly customers rate Kensington lowest among similar products. Apparently not the EX users go shopping there :)

There are a few online stores (including big A) where you can find. Interestingly customers rate Kensington lowest among similar products. Apparently not the EX users go shopping there :)

Yes, I believe it was due to some macs won't go to sleep mode when the card is inserted.
I could care less....

Kensington reader in each slot with transcend 8gb or 16gb or sandisk extreme 3 8gb.
When i remove the slot A sd card from the reader, the lcd shows the mins disappear from slot B but remaining in slot A !
If i the pull out sd card in slot B, slot A mins disappear.
I then need to pull out slot B sd and reinsert to get the mins showing again on slot B.
If i pull out sd in slot b then slot b mins disappear correctly.

The only way for me to get this to work correctly is to pull the whole adaptor and sd card as one by ejecting the adaptor properly.
It's like the slots are wired up wrong inside the cam.
I did the firmware upgrade myself so i know the cam hasn't been taken apart.
All the above problems don't happen with the sony sxs cards or if i use 1 sxs and 1 kensington/transcend.
Also on my colleagues EX1 which i updated, he doesn't have any of these problems, he just pulls the sd card out.

When i first did my upgrade, none of this happened.

Any suggestions ?

Thanks.
Paul.

Just notified by A that my SanDisk 32gb Ultra II will ship between 11/12-12/1/08.

Just notified by A that my SanDisk 32gb Ultra II will ship between 11/12-12/1/08.

Wow that's a bit of a wait. I have paid for mine and was hoping it would arrive in the next week or so. Looks like I am going to be disappointed.

The only way for me to get this to work correctly is to pull the whole adaptor and sd card as one by ejecting the adaptor properly.
.

Paul, there's nothing wrong with the camera or upgrade.

It makes sense that the EX won't flag the SDHC card removed since the system only knows removal of the entire expresscard (SxS).

If you're using two Kensington adaptors just use them like SxS cards and they will act the same.

Just notified by A that my SanDisk 32gb Ultra II will ship between 11/12-12/1/08.

Wow... I hope they are not correct on their arrival.

That's what i'll do from now on, remove the whole combo.
Even if someone makes a push/push adaptor we'll still have to remove the whole combo though.
It's no big deal though is it considering the money we're saving on cards.

I've been using the transcend 8 and 16gb cards, no problems so far.

Thanks.
Paul.

I hear you Paul. Now if we can get our hands on those dang Ultra II 32GB cards!

*Usually* Amazon's projected delivery date is very conservative, and products actually arrive much faster.

With Ultra 32Gb it could be a bit different as it depends on whether they actually have it in stock for shipping.

While the following may be obvious to everyone, as I had not seen any discussion of the following, I thought i would comment briefly:

I recently picked up 2 - 16gb transcend sdhc cards - which each came with a usb sdhc card reader at no additional cost (about $32 US each). After filling both sdhc cards with video, I plugged each of them into a separate usb port (I used a usb powered six port hub attached to one of the ports in my computer), and was able to download them to my hard drive almost simultaneously. (There is no reason why you can't copy 3, 4, or more at a time using this same method - although it is likely to take a bit more time than just doing one card, it is much much faster than transferring the cards one at a time.) The only issue I had was due to the design of the transcend card reader - which mounts the sdhc card from the side - thus blocking some of the usb ports - so, in my case, the six usb port hub would only allow 4 cards to be inserted at a time.)

Thought i would also mention that I own a Nokia N800 which also takes sdhc cards and was able to get one of the several media player software packages I have for it to recognize the ex mp4 file and play it. Because of the very slow n800 processor, it was so slow as to be useless, however, it clearly displayed an occasional frame and the file manager allowed me to see the file size, etc., so i could tell that the file was generally ok.

I am going to try to borrow an epson p-5000 and several other devices (including an ipod video if the usb camera adapter will work with the sdhc cards) which were designed to store still photos or movies to see if I can do in-the-field backups without using a laptop. While there are very few expresscard devices that exist for this purpose, numerous devices exist which can read sdhc cards. While their processors are sufficiently slow to make it unlikely that they can play the video, they can still be used for purposes of making a backup. (Some may allow copying to a hd, like the p-5000. Others, like my n800, hold two sdhc cards, and can be used to copy one card to another.)

So you must be copying using windows instead of clip browser.
Using clip browser is the recomended method, but i have thought about copying more than 1 sdhc card at a time using these usb/sdhc readers.
Have you had any errors yet copying with windows ?

What are other sdhc card users doing ?
Is everyone still recomending clip browser ?

Paul.

I imagine you will still need the browser if you have spanned a continuous video across both SDHC cards.

I imagine you will still need the browser if you have spanned a continuous video across both SDHC cards.

For rewrapping yes. But what about just copying the BAPV folder to your hard-drive ?

Is windows safe enough ?

Paul.

Paul -

I was copying the entire card contents using windows and it worked fine - I had each card copied into its own new folder. (I had one definitely weird anomaly, however. which i do not attribute to the copying procedure at all, but I could be wrong.)

The 2 cards i copied were the first cards that i had used in my ex3. they are 2- 16gb transcend -class 6 in 2 of the kensington express card adapters. I put them both in the camera and let it run for about 2 hours. Each card filled to capacity and the camera recognized them and transferred from the first card to the second properly. I then copied each card, using windows xp pro, to its own new folder on my hard drive. Subsequently, I launched adobe premiere cs3 - updated to directly recognize ex files, set up a new project using 1080 30p (which is what the camera had been set to use) and then imported the files from card A from the hard drive. I then imported the card b files from the hard drive.

Premiere recognized the files and did the import - but what i got was approximately 10 files, each of almost identical length, and each containing what seems to be identical copies of the contents of both cards. I suspect that this has something to do with the fact that the video spanned 2 cards (I have not done that before), that the copying had not been done with sony's software, or that because my main machine uses the xp file format rather than fat32, premiere may have done some combining of the fat32 files - or some combination of some or all of these - or e) - none of the above.

I will fool with this a bit more as I have not paid much attention tothe actual file formats used by the camera or any of the software up to this point. However, from the standpoint of moving files to a hard drive or making backups, I suspect that simultaneous multi-card file moves using windows can still be done safely as what I got on the hard drive was identical to what was on the two cards and played perfectly from the premiere timeline.

Hi all

Confirm that as an editor I've been simultaneously copying multiple BPAV folders directly into computers off the SxS or CF cards (into their own discrete folder names, of course) on both PC and Mac systems (both PowerPC and Mac Pro) in XP XP2, Vista, and OX 10.4.11 and 10.5.x with zero problems so far.

Bridged files have been imported using the various utilities.

I have been cutting EX1 stuff for around 6 months and will finally have my own camera in around a week.
HTH

I have been cutting EX1 stuff for around 6 months and will finally have my own camera in around a week.
HTH

Congrats Chris!

Look into the Kensington / SDHC (Ultra II 15MB/s) to save $$$

Paul - Premiere recognized the files and did the import - but what i got was approximately 10 files, each of almost identical length, and each containing what seems to be identical copies of the contents of both cards.

10 clips at 3.5 gb each i bet. with the same clip number but with a 1 then a 2 then a 3 etc on the end.

The clips are split ( by the cam i think) into smaller clips. If you viewed the clips in clip browser then you would see 1 long clip, which in reality is what it was. If you then rewrapped using clip browser then those consecutive clips get rewrapped as 1 clip into a long mxf clip.

But we're not talking about rewrapping here, just copying, so windows is safe then, which i thought it would be.
So, multiple sdhc cards in multiple readers,for multiple offload, this gets better.

Thanks.
Paul.

Actually - I never considered the thought on transferring multiple SDHC cards at the same time.
Now that will match up to SxS transfer offload to PC speed. Well, unless you're rich enough (lol) to own a couple Sony SxS readers.

Does anybody have any experience with the Sony MSAC-EX1 Memory Stick Duo Express Card adapter in combination with Memory Stick Pro Duo Mark2? Does it allow the card door to be closed and does the card work reliably ?

Same question about the SanDisk ExpressCard adapter. Can the door be closed and does it work as reliably as the Kensington?

...the SanDisk ExpressCard adapter. Can the door be closed and does it work as reliably as the Kensington?

I just returned the SanDisk ExpressCard adapter to Best Buy today... the card wouldn't even go in half way.... and I got the invalid media error. No go for Sandisk's reader.

Just ordered my Kensington 7-in-1 card reader. Was browsing through the other forum and saw similiar post on Kensington + SDHC memory combo.