I am a newbie to the camcorder market.....I live in Japan and read Japanese so I checked out kakaku.com and can get the nv-70 for 90,000 plus 5% tax and the NV100K for 118,000yen plus tax both shops are 30min on the train from my house and I can pick them up as opposed to order on line and pay cash...maybe they can give me a further cash discount and maybe tax free holding a oreign passport...try my luck....well there fore the nv100k is 28,000 more....thats a lot for me....the people in the shops say that the movie record level is similar....basically I will just edit on my PC and burn my own data cds or Dvds.....

question: in the case of editing on the pc and burning dvds or making data cds will the end quality be so much difference between the NV 70 and the NV100K?

My girlfriend likes the smaller size and I like that black beuty...but the problem is she's financing the deal!

MMMmmmm Help needed with decision.....I already have a 3.2 mega pixal still camera so that function on the nv100K isnt for digi photos doesnt sway me that direction...

Oh the guy in the electric shop was impressed with my printed out english instructions for the 100k from this forum....
thanks to all

Cheers Lincoln

question: in the case of editing on the pc and burning dvds or making data cds will the end quality be so much difference between the NV 70 and the NV100K? You will most likely notice a big difference, especially on a larger sized TV and in shooting 16:9. The GS100 has about triple the video effective CCD pixels to capture video information. Shooting with OIS over DIS also makes a noticeable difference.

If she really loves you, she will get you the GS100. :)

Frank, sorry for marking you up but you often repeat GS100 has triple the pixel count of GS70.

These are the facts but the more pixels are not actually used. Other much better 3CCD cams have much less pixels than MX5000 or GS100. It's true though tha GS70 is a bit under even for the recording standard.

Things wich matter are overal lens-CCD combination, as well as camera tuning, etc.

Lincoln, I had that war with the difference that my wife (family) sponsors the purchase. I won for the better but if you are not going to use the cam for more demanding tasks I guess GS70 is preaty good too. At other forums and what I've personaly seen it's slightly less sharp, overal good (but not outstanding) color, and a not bad in low light (brightness OK but sharpness is even more down, grain is relatively low).

Cheers, Bogie

Bogdan, I was talking about "video effective CCD pixels," not total CCD pixels. Over the years CCDs have come with more pixels. You just have to take note of the video effective pixels. The more video effective pixels, the more "eyes" the CCD or CCDs have to see thus capture information. We have seen this trend with digi still cams as well: the more pixels, the higher resolution. Look at these specs:

GS100K/MX5000/PV-DV953

1/6" CCD with 800,000 X 3 pixels.
Video effective: 640,000 X 3 pixels.

GS70

1/6" CCD with 460,000 X 3 pixels
Video effective: 290,000 pixels.

Now look at these 2 latest 1 CCD cams:

DCR-PC300K: 1/3" CCD/3.31 million pixels - video effective is a whooping 2.05 million!

Optura Xi: 1/3.4" CCD/2.3 million pixels - video effective is 1.23 million.

Why? Higher resolution/more accurate video information. :)

Thankyou for your replies,

My decision is focusing clearer.....bogdan can you please let me know the link to the other forum ? Thank you Frank my third uneducated sense is stearing me to the Black Beuty......But at this stage still not sure....I am going to purchase Sunday.....

I will just be making a few home videos nothing too serious, but since I love water sports and shallow diving I will be looking for a waterproof case too.......

Has any one taken a nv100k under water yet?

Thanks all,

Lincoln

If I was looking to buy a camera similar size to the NV70 here in Japan,

would you get that or something else....

I looked at the sony TRV70 Japanese and agreed that the display was very blue...

Any recomendations welcome...

Cheers

I do think that the GS100k is small enough to carry around. GS70 is way too small for me.

Panasonic Camcorder NV-GS70EG-S Foreign model with 1.7 MP versus the Japanese 1.2MP is the only difference in Digital Photos?

And of coarse th user friendly english display?

I can get the export model here in Tokyo for 118,000 same price as the NV100K......

Hopefully the NV-GS70EG-S isn't a PAL model, since you live in Japan.

Okay my question is:

Japanese Domestic model NV-GS70K NTSC with 1.2MP recording and the Export model NV-GS70ENT PAL with 1.7MP recording.

Beside the still photo pixel resolution difference of 5MP are they both the same machine.

The raw weight is the same 490G

The price difference for the export model here in Tokyo is 25,000yen around 220$US

I am originally from a PAL country and will return there in a few years so PAL is fine too!

anyhow still contemplating the NV100K, I have already tested them out in the stores.....yeah of coarse they look great....I have never owned a camcorder before and when I first looked The clarity and big LCD Display then to Learn of the 3CCD just keeps drawing me closer and closer.....I will have a look at the black model after work tonight!!Cheers

Lincoln, with the older MX3000, the PAL version had higher resolution stills, probably because the PAL version had more CCD pixels. This is why I hinted that the NV-GS70EG-S could be a PAL version. Since you say that the PAL version is okay, because you are heading back to PALsville, it's your call.

Frank another topic but have you heard of HDTV and if so is it the merging of formats to make international standard?

Frank, I don't want to get into discution here you are right for the pixel count and I new it anyway.

What I was trying to say is that not all that effective pixels are really neccessary for the DV recording format.

VX2000 uses 340 000, GL2 380 000
and they are better. As I said and you know it, bigger CCD and 'bigger' pixels mean better especially in low light.

GS100 has small CCD with lots of pixels and thanks to new electronics wizardy it's capable of decent low light. GS70 has same size CCDs (1/6'') but with less pixels (that mean bigger) so originally is better than MX5000 in low light talking about brightness.

DV recording format (NTSC) is 720x480 pixels 345 600 - this is what you need to use 100% the recording format.

GS70 has less and thanks to internal sharpening is doing not bad. I've noticed though more jaged edges on close ups. At normal ratio is pretty good.

Other forums for Pana cams you can find at www.camcorderinfo.com

Hi Lincoln,

If the girlfriend is willing to finance the GS70, then why don't you just pay for the extra JPY28K and get yourself the black beauty?

In case you can reach Tokyo in about 1 hour, I strongly suggest that you visit Bic's main store in Ikebukuro Station (along Yamanote line), not to buy, but to thoroughly compare the cams you're interested in. There you can easily check and see the difference between the GS70, GS100 and all cams available in the market using 21" TVs. While you're there, you can also play with and compare a VX2000 and Victor HD1 both connected to a single 42V HDTV. If Ikebukuro is too far for you, the next best choice is Bic Camera beside Yuurakucho Station (also along Yamanote Line). Sellers are pretty good but monitors are only 14" hence video quality difference are harder to detect. Akihabara is a PATHETIC place in terms of comparison set-ups so don't waste your time there.

PAL or NTSC. When are you going back to PAL land? Until then, how are you going to watch your videos in Japan? Do you have a multi-system TV or are you using a Jap NTSC TV?

If you've stayed longer than 6 months in Japan holding a long-term visa (working etc.), then you must pay the 5% tax, even in LAOX. Should you decide to buy in any discount shop listed in kakaku, you'd have to pay the 5% tax regardless of your status.
If you're going to buy in a discount shop, you'd better call first and confirm the price and availability first. Walk-in is OK, but sometimes, price of display models are a lot more expensive than that listed in the internet. In case you do not call, at least be sure to check the store's latest listed price in kakaku and tell that to the seller (to let him know that you're aware of their cheapest price). I don't know of any discount shops that accept credit cards.

If you haven't bought anything from a discount shop before and if your girlfriend is Japanese, you'd better ask her to make the actual negotiations. Dealing with discount shops is not as smooth and easy as that with regular stores. I know of one who wouldn't even allow you to open the box to check at the store (because that's their policy) unless you are able to strongly demand it (in Japanese of course). Be sure to know the special conditions of purchase, if any.

Underwater housing: Pany's housing (for GS70 and GS100) can be used up to 10m only. They cost the same (a little over JPY30,000 + tax).

Good luck to you!

Oh yeah, the GS100 is so much better than the GS70. That's my own finding. In fact, I personally find the video quality of Canon's FV-M10 (Optura 20 in US, 1.33MP with 16x optical zoom) more pleasing than that of GS70, but I wouldn't recommend it either.

The VX2000 plays back 500 horizontal lines; the MX5/GS100 plays back 540 lines.

Bogdan, here's something for you to read:

http://www.dvfreak.com/res.htm

Thank you for your informative reply Allan.....

I am off to Bic Camerar Ikebukuro Tomorrow and will have a thorough comparison check

Great Idea....


and then off to Akihabara ( shop from Kakaku ) to pick up what looks like a NV100-K.....and maybe rip the Visa card out and get some water proof casing to play with during the Obon Yasumi........in Shimoda

Probably need a spare battery too ! I suppose that hungry 100K will need it...

Cheers and thanks to every one

Lincoln

Frank another topic but have you heard of HDTV and if so is it the merging of formats to make international standard? Sorry, this won't be the case---too much money to be lost in the industry.

Lincoln,

In case you can't find the underwater housing in Akihabara, Bic Camera Senmon Ten (also in Ikebukuro) has it on stock. Just saw it 2 days ago. Best thing about them is the point card system (most stores in Akihabara don't have that). I'm sure you know about the point card system in stores such as Bic and Sakuraya right?

Yeah, you definitely need a spare batt. If you're willing to try "equivalent" batts, check out sabahoceanic.com. Price of their batts is almost like 50% of genuine Pany's. I haven't tried one myself though.

One last thing, don't forget to buy yourself a 43mm JPY1,200 MC Protector or UV filter for your cam lens. Any Jap brand would do (Kenko, Hakuba, Marumi, etc.) If you get your underwater housing from a store like Bic and use the point card, you earn at least 8% (credit card purchase, +2% if you pay cash) of the selling price. Thus, you can grab the filter for free and a few tapes as well.

Cheers

Thanks for all the tips Allan,

You have kept me on track...Yeah I have Big Camera Point Card so that may be the way for the housing,

and Iwill grab a filter too!

I actually popped down to yurakuchou Bic Camera in my Lunch and Gee they do have it set up well, TV's lined up Cameras Lined up I checked the NV70 out Side by Side with the NV100-K ,

I can see the zoom was smoother with the 100K and actually more comfortably in the hand with manual focus buttons and some other functions near the Lense positioned in a very user friendly position.

And I saw the Black Beuty for the First time, Cool Cool Cool

Gotta Get the Black.

Since its open until 9 I will drop back for a better look tonight before the Trip down to my discount shop in Aki Tomorrow..

Cheers,

Lincoln

Black is the only way to go, unless the cam's shell is made of 18K gold. (That would drive up the price, though). :)

Lincoln, I'm happy for you. Alan's advises are really the only one to go.

As this tread stiil has GS70 in it's name I want to mess a bit more.

Frank, are you saying VX2000 is worse than MX5/GS100?

On the resolution topic you can only evaluate camera in reall action. Check out this:
http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/urltrurl?lp=ja_en&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sbpnet.jp%2Fvwalker%2Fseries%2Ftestlab%2Fart.asp%3Fnewsid%3D5436

Link is long because I add the babel fish translator. Yes both MX5000 and GS70 spot same resolution - read the review very profesionally made.

For those who can read japanese:
http://www.sbpnet.jp/vwalker/series/testlab/art.asp?newsid=5436

Frank, are you saying VX2000 is worse than MX5/GS100? No. I'm saying that the VX2000 has been tested to play back 500 horizontal lines, and MX5, 540 lines.

540 is the maximum for the standard.
At the link I gave the testers say both MX5000 & GS70 have 500 horizontal 380 vertical resolution after actual shooting of test chart and reading the lines. Check it out anyway.
In their test VX2000 sports a bit more lines than what you say. Overall MX5000 is the winner in their oppinion, VX2000 is just for reference.