Has anyone actually worked with this camera (http://www.panasonic.com/PBDS/subcat/Products/cams_ccorders/f_AJ-SDX900.html)? It sure looks excellent and might be a better filmmaking choice than Sony's DSR-570WS.

Hey Ken,
I just looked at the info on this cam. Looks pretty good, a little strong for my weddings though :-) BUT at only 2 bits apiece (plus plus-I'm sure) I think I'll order a couple. OOOPPPS, I just checked and I'm a little short this week.
Ken good buddy, fellow Chicagoian-could you help me out here, just until next week. I promise!
Don

It -would- be good to get two...in case one breaks down. ;-)

Yes, this is an expensive camera with "plus, plus"es (ex: lens). But with a 2/3" CCD, native 16:9 and switchable 24p / 30p it seems like a reasonable value. I have been looking at 2/3" cameras with native 16:9 for a while. Until now Sony and Ikegami were at the top of my list. But neither offers progressive. So I came across this Panasonic and just wondered if it really delivers well.

Yeah, I kinda figured thats what you were looking for, sorry I can't be of any help on this for you, but I couldn't pass the chance to have some fun with a $25000.00 camera. I only know 1 guy who used to use a DSR500 for weddings but he doesn't anymore, got kind of heavy I guess.
Good Luck in your quest,
Don

Ken, I was going to shoot our Lady X episode with this camera, but then I realized I spent our whole budget on candy filled cell phones and maple soda.

Seriously though, looks like a hell of a camera, if you ever find any footage shot by it, I'd love to see it.

Ken,
>So I came across this Panasonic and just wondered if it really delivers well. -->>>

Ken I noted that you are from Chicago. There is a dealer there where you could see one in person, Roscor. Contact me off line if you would like me to assist in getting you a demo.

Best regards,

Jan

IMHO....Between the Pana SDX900 and the Sony 570WS...i'd say the pana takes the cake...not for the fact that its progressive or widescreen...but simply for the fact that it'll record 4:2:2 DV50. I'd rather have a higher quality image than a wide one ;)

c

Jan: Thank you for the tip on Roscor! For some reason they didn't jump to mind as a local dealer even though I know they're in the area. I very well may take you up on your kind offer for a contact ar Roscor, Jan.

Casey: Indeed, the expanded color space specs were one of the attributes that caught my eye. The 570WS is a very nice piece of equipment that I've tried-out. But its design features seem oriented towards the ENG market, admittedly a large opportunity. The SDX900 seems more balanced for filmmakers.

I am looking toward what the next step in acquisition tech for my work should be and and am wrestling a bit between HD and SD. I'm leaning toward SD partly because of cost and partly because of the useful time horizon I predict for this next step (3-4 years).

ken, unless you've got a lot of money and time to invest, i'd stick with SD for a little bit longer, dv50 anyway is a good enough jump in quality for the interim...same color sampling as digibeta!...and affordable enough that you can OWN your equipment and likely recoup the investment =)

Remember...even standard definition NTSC can look incredibly good...but you wouldnt know it if all you looked at was 4:1:1 dv with 5:1 compression.

Hi Ken,

I'd be more than happy to help arrange a demo for you

In you response to Casey: The SDX900 seems more balanced for filmmakers.

I actualy think it is a camera that has a balance for what ever you need to do in Standard Definitiion and it upconverts to HD extrememely well. Maybe at IFP Chicago that can happen.


>I am looking toward what the next step in acquisition tech for my work should be and and am wrestling a bit between HD and SD.

Panasonic has a product for either side of your equation, the Varicam is unparalleled in HD production due to its over crank and under crank capability. It has a growing number of fans. But with that comes the cost of HD post. It really depends on where you are going to make the most of your money over the next 3-4 years. The key part that I fell is a real joy, is that if you learn one camera, the SDX900 as an example, the Varicam is very similar, not the same but similar so that you are getting double time out of your learning curve.

I'm leaning toward SD partly because of cost and partly because of the useful time horizon I predict for this next step (3-4 years).

You should take a look at the SDX900, most are floored by its look in 24P and the film like gammas.

Best regards,

Jan
-->>>

The thing I like about this camera is the 30 frame progressive. All my stuff is released in video and not film. The 30fp should be better than 60i, I would think. I read someplace the basic price for this camera is around $25K, so for about $35K you could have a pretty decent package--a lot less money than the equivalent Digibeta, and with 30p, probably a better looking picture.

Progressive mode mades your motion look worse (more like film) and makes stills higher resolution without motion artifacts. If this is for broadcast then there isn't much point unless going for the film look (but then you'd go 24p). If you are going to DVD then progressive footage is easier to encode which gives it an advantage and it won't flicker when the viewer pauses the DVD.

<<<-- Originally posted by Glenn Chan : this is for broadcast then there isn't much point unless going for the film look (but then you'd go 24p.

Glenn, even if it is for broadcast, 24P can make sense in that it may be an effect that one wants to creat the illusion that the project was shot on film. While it isn't necessarily for mainstream, it does have its application in the 60i domain.

If you shoot with the SDX or even the DVX as if it were a film camera, the motion artifacts are not as noticable and when it is set in 24P and framed and shot like it is a video camera.

FWIW,

Jan

Jan, what is the latest on DVCPRO 50 and FireWire 800 compatibility (now that FCP4 is out)?

It would certainly make the SDX even more attractive than it already is, if DVCPRO 50 could be transferred and edited without resorting to SDI.

<<<-- Originally posted by Steven-Marc Couchouron : Jan, what is the latest on DVCPRO 50 and FireWire 800 compatibility (now that FCP4 is out)?

Hi Steve, you do not need FireWire 800, only 400 and, yes FCP4 is out and so are the decks.

>>It would certainly make the SDX even more attractive than it already is, if DVCPRO 50 could be transferred and edited without resorting to SDI. -->>>

The card has been held up but it should be shipping by the end of next week. This will be very cool.

Best regards,

Jan

On windows.. most dv50 based systems are based on proprietary capture boards and proprietary codecs locked to those boards using SDI. using existing firewire to capture and output would be great.

I know Quicktime has some 8bit:4:2:2 codecs available, but don't know of any Directshow filters/codecs.


Jan... does Panasonic provide the codecs needed to edit the footage? Any recomended capture utilities available for windows users?

<<<-- Originally posted by Joe Carney : On windows.. most dv50 based systems are based on proprietary capture boards and proprietary codecs locked to those boards using SDI. using existing firewire to capture and output would be great.

Actually anytime you come into an SDI i/O you are at an uncompressed level and thus you can edit on virtually any system that works in an uncompressed domain. We just had a music video cut for us on an Accom Infinity at 60i. You can edit on a Media Composer or Adreniline today.


Jan... does Panasonic provide the codecs needed to edit the footage? Any recomended capture utilities available for windows users?

To edit in native DVCPRO50 Codecs, both Apple and Avid have paid for the use of our codec as it is not a public domain codec. The advantage of this is that the file sizes a vastly smaller, and in the case of 24P extraction it can happen on the fly in real time rather than having to render it out.

Hope that helps,

Jan

Thanks. I going to have to email a petition to Sony/sofo and hope they keep an open mind and add support.

I posted over at the sofo forum and was met with.....
silence. Drat.

<<<-- Originally posted by Joe Carney : I posted over at the sofo forum and was met with.....
silence. Drat. -->>>

Joe,

I imagine that they, SOFO, will be supporting the DV25 portion of the camera, they currently support the DVX100. Not sure about the DV50 portion as that requires them to enter into an arena that their parent company my not like. But you never know, it is a strange business.

Best regards,

Jan

Probably better luck with Premiere Pro on the PC side, I'd guess...

A related announcement today regarding a FCP 4 update (http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2003/08/29/finalcutpro/).

I'm hoping no answer doesn't mean no way. Vegas already supports 8bit 4:2:2 color space for it's various effects.

As far as Premier Pro? Adobe usually doesn't include any special codecs with Premier, instead relying on third party companies (Canopus, Matrox...) to provide them. I heard they broke with tradition and included the MainConcept DV codec with Premier Pro
since the MS codec has gotten such a bad rep.

I wonder if either Canopus or Matrox would offer affordable dv50 options that would interfere with their more profitable component/SDI offerings.

I still haven't found anyone offering a stand alone, commercial, high quality DV50 codec for sale that works under DirectShow. The only thing close is the freeware Huffy YUV codec.

<<<-- Originally posted by Joe Carney : I'm hoping no answer doesn't mean no way. Vegas already supports 8bit 4:2:2 color space for it's various effects.

Sonic is working to insure the DVCPRO25 initially, and they may also move toward the DVCPRO50.

Best regards,

Jan

I just received the September, 2003 issue and noticed that the AJ-SDX900 is the cover story (by Mark Foley). (And Jan is quoted several times in the article.) Darn, this camera is just too intriguing to ignore.

Well Ken, Jan offered to arrange a demo for you -- I think you should take her up on it (here comes a whole new side to DV Info)!

I agree, if only to see it in person even. A short write-up of your own would be interesting, along with photos/video if time permits. Otherwise, here is the link for the Mark Foley review: Panasonic AJ-SDX900 (http://www.uemedia.com/CPC/article_11665.shtml).

I know myself too well. If I take Jan's gracious offer to help arrange a demo it I'll buy it. But, of course, that implies a cascade of precipitant expenses such as a good lens, a DVCPRO50-compatible deck, batteries, insurance, etc. Best guess, net of current equipment sales: $40-50K.

But my principal dilemma is really size and weight. Although this is a smaller camera than the big ol' ENG Beta's it's still a large camera, and rather heavy when rigged to roll. While it presents what seems to be remarkable opportunities for imaging, a camera this size also presents some formidable limitations. Bottom line: what could I do with this camera that I could not do with smaller, or my current, equipment?

I am still ponderin' it, though.

Well, one thing you could do with the camera is LET ME BORROW IF FOR A LOW BUDGET SHOOT LOL...

I've seen some sdx900 footage on an ntsc monitor and indoor stuff with good lighting and it LOOKS LIKE film, no kidding. Blows the dvx100 out of the water, which I guess it should...

never seen outdoor or distance footage, so I can't say anything about that.

Waiting for it to hit the 500 daily rental rate.

Michael,
You're the first to report actually seeing footage from the camera...and your observations aren't helping my budget <g>.

What are you seeing the SDX900 renting for in your area?

I saw the camera at DV East a couple of weeks ago and let me tell you it's fantastic. A guy from Abel Cine demoed it for us and let me tell you there were more tongues hanging out then a pack of dogs who haven't had water for a week. Jan has already mentioned that it transfers to HD beautifully and I cant even describe what a beautiful image it is capable of making.

Forgive my relative ingnorance with regard to the world of professional / broadcast technology. But one matter on which I'm still a bit stymied is that of capture. I've looked at Panasonic's various DVCPRO50-compatible decks and none features default Firewire connectivity. One or two offer a $700 add-in Firewire board (yikes). Is "SDI" the only way to capture footage from this camera into a Mac? If so, can someone point me toward (a) educational sources on SDI (ie. what distinguishes it? and, (b) resources that would enable me to add this capability to my Mac/FCP4 editing system?

Your best bet would be to add the FireWire board to the deck. The other options would be to add a card with SDI capability. Pinnacle's CineWave is one card and I know there are several others with SDI options, such as Aurora Igniter and AJA IO. You'll also have the option of SD or HD with these cards. The total expense isn't just the camera, it's all the support gear as well.

I understand you can rent the sdx900 for approx 650 a day. Does not include your fave lens....

But you might be able to get a two day week if your dp is down with the rental dudes...

The footage will still have lapses, like on on any long distance shots, just like HD except worse. Outdoors over about 30 feet is where it falls down. Indoors/tight areas/close-ups/medium shots, it really does look like super16mm.

<<<-- Originally posted by Ken Tanaka : Forgive my relative ingnorance with regard to the world of professional / broadcast technology. But one matter on which I'm still a bit stymied is that of capture. I've looked at Panasonic's various DVCPRO50-compatible decks and none features default Firewire connectivity. One or two offer a $700 add-in Firewire board (yikes).

Ken,

The Machine that handles the DVCPRO50 over firewire is the AJ-SD930 with the AJ-YAD955G 1394 card, so if you thought the $700 price tag was tough, these cost a bit more than that. Sorry. However, since the majority of the editing is done in the NLE, my suggestion would be a rental to get it into the system and then another to lay it off, months later depending on the length of the edit.

Is "SDI" the only way to capture footage from this camera into a Mac?

No, in fact it would be preferable to go in the MAC over 1394 and discard the extra frames on the way in. Using the FCP4 and the the Advanced Pull this is exactly what can happen. You transfer in in the native DVCPRO50 file and it takes less file space as only the 24 frames are viewable.

BTW, I checked the link of LadyX on the bottom of your post. Looks like an interesting project. I look forward to looking at it later today.

Best regards,

Jan

This is a good choice for NLE editing 1394


ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/pub/Panasonic/Drivers/PBTS/brochures/B_AJ-DX225.pdf

Ciao
Francesco

<<<-- Originally posted by Francesco Marano : This is a good choice for NLE editing 1394


ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/pub/Panasonic/Drivers/PBTS/brochures/B_AJ-DX225.pdf

It would be if it was delivering but it is not going to be available next year around NAB time.

Jan

Thanks very much for the guidance.

Jan: Indeed, I know that the decks are far more $. I was actually remarking on the cost of just the add-in 1394 board being around $700. That DX225 deck looks perfect and NAB-season may be good timing for me.

You might be able to pick up a show special. Panasonic usually has some good deals at NAB.

Let me get this straight---with the AJ-SD930 deck andAJ-YAD955G 1394 card one can bring footage into a PC driven NLE and edit. For instance, Dr. Dropout over at Vegas says that you can edit PRO50 footage with the Matrox DVPRO50 codec?

If this is the case, then what are your drive requirements--do you need to go SCSI?

If it came in on FireWire, FireWire 400 drives should be adequate. FireWire 800 or ATA RAID 0 drives might allow more RT effects or more channels of audio/video. It will depend on the NLE software, ram, drives etc.

I found an interesting article (http://www.panasonic.com/pbds/subcat/newsinfo/press_03/03_76.html) on Panasonic's site regarding a Volkswagen ad shot with the SDX900.

Panasonic is offering a Digital Filmmaker's Grant for filmmakers wanting to make a documentary or feature film. What do you get if you win?

The Panasonic AJ-SDX900 and a DVCPRO50 deck among other things, for three weeks time. Saw this over on 2-pop, here (http://www.uemedia.com/CPC/article_12021.shtml).

For the full set of details, please go here:
http://www.panasonic.com/pbds/subcat/promo/sdx900_grant_promo.html

Looking forward to some interesting proposals.

Jan

<<<-- Originally posted by Ken Tanaka : I found an interesting article (http://www.panasonic.com/pbds/subcat/newsinfo/press_03/03_76.html) on Panasonic's site regarding a Volkswagen ad shot with the SDX900. -->>>

Ken, for an even more interesting read on the same commercial see:
http://www.abelcine.com/bodies/body153.php

This is the "guys" talking about what they did. Pretty interesting.

and of course there are links to that commercial on the Abel Cine Tech web site as well at:

http://www.abelcine.com/SDX900/SDX900_quicktimes.html

Overall a pretty cool little spot and it upconverted to HD so well. Filmouts can be sen at Laser Pacific in LA and Heavy Light Digital in NYC. These two places work very differently as far as how they get to film, but both look very nice indeed.

BTW Ken, I stopped over at Lady X, Pretty hip. Nice job. i noticed that there are a whole bunch more coming from all over the world. Nice little concept they stated there.

Best regards,

Jan

Very interesting links, Jan. Thanks for passing those along.

Glad to hear you stopped at Lady X Films. Yes, we're having a great deal of fun with this project.

I think that this page (http://www.abelcine.com/SDX900/camera_comparison.html) on Abel's site provides a very concise, informative technical comparison between the DVX100 and the SDX900.

Abel Cinetech site's SDX900 pages (http://www.abelcine.com/SDX900/), overall, are very informative.

I have been meaning to post an update to this thread for a couple of weeks and finally remembered to do so.

At the recent ShowBiz Expo here in Chicago I had the relatively unique opportunity to see Panasonic's DVX100, SDX900 and Varicam HD shooting side-by-side at the Panasonic booth. I also had the opportunity to finally meet Panasonic's Jan Crittenden in-person. She really is a very special person, extremely knowledgable and enthusiastic on her product line and was very generous with her time in showing me the fine points of the SDX900. Her participation here at DVInfo is a real treat.

I certainly cannot match the SDX900 reviews in Videography and now in DV magazine. They tell most of the story. But I can add a few of my impressions,for whatever they may be worth, perhaps to supplement those published reviews.

The setting I viewed had all three cameras shooting the same scene; a model train set with plenty of color and contrast variations and a bit of lighting. The motion of the train served to highlight the differences in progressive and interlaced modes as well as in 30 and 24 frames per second modes.

In brief, some impressions. The SDX900 is one tremendous camera. I don't think I've ever seen a better all-around image, certainly not on a SD camera. The camera's menu system is deep and relatively complex but is constructed in a logical, progressively detailed manner. It actually bears some similarity to that of the DVX100, although is far deeper. The camera's ability to store and use SD cards to store/retrieve all of its settings makes the this complexity downright convenient. Jan was able to demonstrate perhaps 6-8 completely different "looks" within a few minutes simply by loading them from SD cards. (Jan noted that they're planning to offer a downloadable library of presets on Panasonic Broadcast's Web site soon.) The basic controls on the SDX900 are very conveniently located and would take only a short time to master "blind". The images from the SDX900 and Varicam were certainly different, but not breathtakingly so. Also, the cameras seemed nearly identical in physical size. Footage up-sampled to HD from the SDX900's DVCPRO50 format and viewed on an HD deck looked very, very good and clean. Finally, I was struck by just how much value the DVX100 really represents for a fraction of the cost of its biggger bretheren. While it's imaging is not quite in the same arena as that of the SDX900, it is certainly not a laughable straggler by any means. Those who cannot justify or afford the $50,000+ it would take to grab the SDX900 can be consoled with the knowledge that the DVX100 can produce pretty darn good results according to a side-by-side comparison.
So there it is, one fellow's impressions. I don't think that there's any question that the SDX900 will quickly become the camera for independent video-based productions.

To be honest, this may be my next camera. I don't think I would upgrade my XL1S to XL2 if it's going to still be a DV25 camera.

This isn't a knock to Canon, who I still think made the best dv25 camera on many levels, but unless the XL2 comes with some serious feature pushing the boundaries of the dv25, I think I would go with a DVCPRO50 range.

I've invested a lot in the XL1S, and I don't plan on retiring it even after aquiring the SDX900. The XL1S shoots too damn good for certain projects, and married to the mini35, its unbeatable for most SD projects. I also have a concern about compressed HD formats, so I don't know that that is a viable route. (I look at that as consumer, not prosumer or professional)

I certainly don't think you'd be disappointed, John. It will, however, be a capital-intensive jump, particularly if you're not already equipped for DVCPRO50.

I get the impression that the SDX900 is selling most widely to rental houses. So, being in NYC, you may have a good opportunity to rent it for a trial before taking the full plunge.