Since XDCAM is mp@hl based I wonder if there are any small hardware media players like

TVIX, Kiss, or Popcorn a100 Mediaplayer

play the xdcam hd files DIRECTLY without retranscoding.

After reading a review I found that some of these boxes can play mpg ts or m2t files directly without any transcoding. That would be perfect for a fast presentation (think of an event where you like to show parts of the event in the pause or after the show).

Of course, the mediaplayers dont know *.mxf

a) Is there a way to unwrap mxf files into a mpg format?
b) 25mbit CBR is somewhat "HDV-Like", would at least THIS format be changable into a m2t format without recoding?

Any ideas highly appreciated

ULI

Uli,

Cineform Aspect HD can rewrap the MXF container in an MOV of AVI file.
Aspect HD isn' t cheap however.....but... I also use it to make high quality SD downconverts from the Premiere CS3 timeline.

Richard

We just use the free Sony xdcam viewer (full screen mode) on a laptop connected through VGA to a large flatpanel or at the WXGA laptopscreen itself.

@richard: does it with no transcoding (so does it the unwrap FAST?)?

@eelco: Thats exactly what I want to avoid, I need a small "box" to be screwed onto/behind a wall or behind the screen itself when standing on a stand.

uli

Uli,

No, it does a transcode.
I've tested it on my system which is an Intel Quad Core 2.66Ghz with 4Gb RAM and a 1 Gb MXF file takes about 90 seconds te transcode.

Richard

hmmm....

the thing is : MXF is only a wrapper for mpg files (mp@hl CBR/VBR), I am sure that there exists a program to unwrap the mpg out of the mxf files again.

Then, a standalone player like A-100 should play those files.

My idea is to have a fast way to playout footage from a previos recording. And I want to avoi a) to buy a XDCAM HD player b) to use a laptop c) to transcode...

m2t files can be played straight out of the box , so I am looking for a way to access the XDCAM HD via mpg...

Lets investigate some more...

Yes, MXF is a container and yes, the EX data is MPEG2. Unfortunately the player need to support the specific Sony codec implementation even if you 'pour' it in another container (like AVI or QT).

But even if it did, the bitrate is much too high (even at SP) for simple players to handle. These are designed for DVD playback at best (10Mb/s).

This is what proxy files were created for but which the EX doesn't have. So you are stuck with:
- transcoding it to a lower bitrate format that you can play on the player of your choice
- or you playback from the camera (component maybe)
- or if you have an external recorder you can use that to either simultaneously record for immediate playback
- or if the external recorder is your primary rec. device you may be able to use that as a player (like the FlashXDR/nanoFlash)

George/

Hi,

I am sorry, but you are wrong.

At least some players (I read reviews of TVIX and Popcorn A-100) can play m2t seamless from the harddrive.

In the A100 the codec chip comes from PS3, so probably can handle even higher data rates (ok, thats suggestion).

At least it CAN play m2t = 25mbits.

XDCAM HD is the same data rate and compression is "HDV-family" mp@hl CBR.

I could imagine that the player would play mxf files when in the right file format.
But YES, thats a suggestion too, but worth a try...

ULI

I am sorry, but you are wrong.

That has never happened before! ;-)

I've checked the A-100/A-110 specs and they claim playback up to at least 40Mb/s. So you indeed seem to be good there.

The Clip Browser can rewrap to MOV. Maybe that will do?

George/

Hey, thats a good idea!

Well.. I was talking about XDCAM HD (pdw-f330), but somebody should check the EX -> MOV...

Anyway, I will buy a A-100 soon, it would be a nice try to see if the A-100 plays those XDCAM EX MOVs....

There must be a way to unwrap the mxfs from XDCAM HD , too...

I purchased one.

Encoding video files in mpg hd (mpg2 HD) with 35mbit/s works find, pic results in the popcorn a110 are fantastic.

I also tried simply renaming a XDCAM EX 25mbit mxf file (from clip browser) into ".mpg" and put it on the player - IT PLAYS THE FILE (didnt check audio, its not connected yet) , but begins to stutter after a few seconds.
So generally, the unit can decode the xdcam hd code , but probably not fast enough...

Thats strange, since he fluently plays hdv and hdv files with higher data rates...

I´ll investigate a bit more.

ULI

Get the Snell and Wilcox MXF Desktop. It's a free mxf unwrapping utility. It unwraps the mpeg-2 from the mxf container without transcoding, but you have to encode the audio separately. I don't have a link, but do a search. It was free, but I recall I had to request a password which they emailed me withing 2-3 days.

It's much faster than any kind of transcoding, and lossless quality, but whether any of these new media players can support 35mbps would be interesting to know.

Get the Snell and Wilcox MXF Desktop. It's a free mxf unwrapping utility. It unwraps the mpeg-2 from the mxf container without transcoding, but you have to encode the audio separately. I don't have a link, but do a search. It was free, but I recall I had to request a password which they emailed me withing 2-3 days.

It's much faster than any kind of transcoding, and lossless quality, but whether any of these new media players can support 35mbps would be interesting to know.

Tom, I've looked for this utility and couldn't find it. Do you have a link?

And for those working with the EX1, the BPAV folder contains the .mp4 wrapped mpeg2 file. VLC plays this directly with no transcoding. So maybe the small boxes will play it too. This saves the step of using the clipbrowser to wrap it into an MXF.

Perrone is of course right about VLC playing mxf natively on the pc, so the main benefit here is for media players like the popcorn, western digital etc.

I'll see if I can find the link to the Snell & Wilcox mxf desktop.

Here is the link to mxf desktop

AmberFin MXF Desktop (free MXF file player) (http://www.amberfin.com/mxfdesktop/)

It's now called AmberFin, and it mentions that it wraps to mxf, I think it should unwrap as well. If it doesn't let me know.

I was playing Sony native MXF files very well with ffdshow. I tried Amberfin's MXF desktop and now I get nothing but a black screen. Going back to ffdshow.

Hey Uli,

I have a PCH A-110 too - did you see they just released a version that might do what you want even better - S-210. This is the blurb:

Popcorn Hour S-210
The Popcorn Hour "Store Front" Digital Signage (S-210) offers a powerful, flexible and reliable platform that is suitable for most advertising needs. Ideal for deployment in diverse environments such as restaurants, dental clinics, video rental stores, chain stores, retail shops and etc. Low power consumption and maintenance free with Solid State Storage (2GB internal USB flash drive included) and no complicated PC architecture. Management and authoring of the advertising playlists for the S-210 is handled by a PC application that is bundled with the device. All this combined with its highly scalable design and low cost, makes the S-210 is an excellent choice to build a advertising system on.

Storage capacity might need to be increased though?

It was REALLY interesting that you managed to play the EX footage - wonder if F350 footage will play too?

Re your stuttering - where were you playing the file from? The various network streaming methods are going to struggle (as widely documented on the PCH forums) - attached USB HDD or internal HDD will be better :)

Paul.

There is a SATA HD built inside.

For my first exhibition I modified mpg export within vegas to 35mbit/s (HD MPG compression with 35mit/s datarate).

The picture from the Popcorn Hour Player is exceptionel good (f a n t a s t i c) - customers are very impressed.

I still didnt manage to play XDCAM HD (or EX1) files 35mbit/s directly without stuttering - it must be due to more processing needs for decoding?

Since there is (usually) any kind of CC I am quite happy with the result (shoot in 35mbit XDCAM HD/EX, export in MPG HD 35mbit.

ULI

OK - I got one without HDD but added one of my own. When I get a chance I'll try it too from raw F350 footage and see if I get the same as you - suspect I will though of course.

Did you set the footage to loop?

Yes.

(repeat "1" , I made 3 trailers combined in one file)

ULI

Would you consider that new S-210 player - sounds like it has good content management options.

dont know... I considered the player just as a "PLAY MACHINE" for existing "local" files.
Hooked up behind the 42" screen it makes a good show , thats all..

I didnt look for any network options yet and probably won´t.

What I am missing is an autoplay feature... (power it and play), since you MUST use the remote control for any (simpliest) action.

ULI

What I am missing is an autoplay feature... (power it and play), since you MUST use the remote control for any (simpliest) action.


That's what the S-210 has I believe - and a way to playlist files...

I see...

Ok, when the price is right, it would be a good option either.

Uli

I still didnt manage to play XDCAM HD (or EX1) files 35mbit/s directly without stuttering - it must be due to more processing needs for decoding?

Since there is (usually) any kind of CC I am quite happy with the result (shoot in 35mbit XDCAM HD/EX, export in MPG HD 35mbit.

ULI

To fix the stuttering, run the file through TSmuxeR to convert it to .m2ts. This is quick and lossless, it does not transcode anything, just pads the headers.

I think the Popcorn uses the same Sigma processor that's in the WD TV that I own, and plays native EX1 video perfectly at 35mbps (after unwrapping the .m2v essence from the mxf container, with no other changes).

The amberfin mxf desktop will wrap and unwrap mxf files on my PC. Prior to its installation, however, Media Player Classic would play mxf content. After installation, MPC ceased playing mxf content, so, I promptly removed the amberfin app.

Beware, MXF desktop does NOT uninstall easily. I had to use a restore point to restore my system. AFAIK, this is TOTALLY unacceptable.

Well,

In any event. I never got the link to download anyway, so I won't bother.