If you step back and take a look at the entire Canon business you see that they possess all the components necessary to create a camera that can challenge RED, or at the very least mop up the entire HD market.

1. Being a lens manufacturer, they already have a huge DSLR lens arsenal.
2. They could easily use their DSLR mount on a video system for convenient interoperability.
3. They already have tight relationships with chip foundries. 2K CMOS would be a good start. 4K a generation or two later.
4. RED has already paved the way to prove the market is viable (something Canon has historically been hesitant to do themselves).
5. They already have a loyal user base who'd love to stick with Canon over "switching" to our friends in Irvine.
6. Plus they have a huge engineering team in Japan that could rival RED in terms of ergonomics and functionality.

Would they be this daring? Somehow I doubt they would. But man it would send shockwaves throughout the entire industry/community if they stepped and challenged RED's impending dominance. They've got everything in front of them already pre-developed. They've got the R&D dollars. They just need the will to do it.

The answer is yes.

But you could just as easily said Nikon or Sony, rather than Canon, and your argument would still hold.

In some ways it would be easier for Nikon to do it.
They have no existing pro video product line that I am aware of, therefore they don't have to consider what of their own they are about to make utterly obsolete.
On the other hand, if Canon came out with a RED Scarlet/RED One/RED Epic equivalent, what happens to the products they already have?

If you step back and take a look at the entire Canon business you see that they possess all the components necessary to create a camera that can challenge RED, or at the very least mop up the entire HD market.


The technical things like a 60 fps sensor, encoder, and post-production are pretty difficult, but Canon might be able to speed up and start trailing RED if they tried. But there are also non-technical components that Canon lacks. RED listens to suggestions from customers. RED talks back (and tells you if your idea stinks and why). RED has the foresight to see beyond next year's revenue statements. They're not artificially limiting the cameras to maximize their short-term profit. Canon needs glasses to correct its near-sightedness and stop withholding vital features that are trivial to implement (Nikon has been doing better here lately, so maybe that will help Canon get in gear).

So as much as would love to be wrong, I don't think Canon will step up and compete at a high level in 2009. I'm selling my XH-A1 for Scarlet. The only thing that has kept me from selling my Canon DSLR is the 24mm f/1.4.

They fully could and I hope they realize that. The funny thing to me is if they do, unlike panasonic and sony they have nothing to loose. They don't make any super high end cameras that need protecting or anything. Keep the current cameras alive and just slightly lower the price points(because those cams have already made their money) and create their own sony type cf card piece for them.

Then above that intro two models. One shoulder mounted and the other handheld style shooting some kind of canon raw to cf cards. Make the mount interchangeable for EF mount and regular 1/2" and up lenses. They could both either be full frame or at least 2-3k res.

If they did that, they could call it a day.

Except that canon's not really in that business, and while they wouldn't have a broadcast camera who's sales they would be cannibalizing, they do have a very well known broadcast lens devision, every time someone bought a hypothetical Canon 4k camera instead of an f900 they would be losing potentially 30k per lens. (figure about 2 lenses per camera) you come to roughly 60k worth of sales not occuring in that department.

I once tried t figure out how and why canon acts the way they do and honestly it's so hit or miss. I kinda secretly believe there is some super genius in Japan who design's the xl series in his free time and is allowed to produce the camera's because he has something on one of the ceo's or something. Of course that's just my imagination but it does seem odd how poorly supported the camera is, compared to the other manufacturers.


That being said I would love for them to do it, I've even requested something along those lines in my signature. Just at the current time (and probably 2 or 3 mroe years to come) I think if you want something like a red your best bet is to buy a red.

The main reason I thought of Canon as a potential RED challenger is because they're such an unorthodox company. Sony and Panny, love 'em or hate 'em, have a very specific action plan for their entire camera lineups. But Canon's sort of the red-headed step-child of the camera manufacturers. They usually wait and see what everyone else is up to and then they create a killer product. Well, RED's made their move. Sony's made their move. Panavision seems disinterested in making a true "Cinema" camera. So that leaves Sony and RED.

I do agree with Nick's assessment that if you want a camera like a RED then shoot with a RED. I will. And soon. But I can't help but feel a little saddened at the thought of abandoning all this Canon gear I've purchased and acquired over the last two years (now getting relegated to the EPK). And I'm sure there's an emotional component to it, as well (being a Canon fan for so long).

Would they be this daring?


I find it odd to describe copying another companies product that as "daring". What RED is doing is daring; for Canon to try and make their own 2k camera would just following the trail. I think that Canon could do it and I agree that they would be the best to do it and hopefully the big four will be forced to follow suit.

I think the folks at Canon USA would love a product like this if Canon Japan had the balls to build it. And from many discussions I've learned that it's not really Canon USA that's preventing them from producing cutting-edge technology, it's Canon Japan that refuses to listen. It's Canon Japan that has it's proverbial head up its ass.

Canon USA has been crying for years for Canon Japan to get serious about building products for "cinema" first and then letting it trickle down from there. Sure, Hollywood only buys so many cameras and the numbers are in supplying cameras to event videographers, dentists, and small town TV stations. But it's the "Hollywood factor" that gets all the press, gets all the attention. It's the indie filmmakers that truly, ultimately, drives the technology forward. Forums like this one often have the loudest voice, the biggest demands and are the most fickle and difficult to please.

But look what happens when you make a product this crowd LOVES! Witness the A1. What a hit that camera was. Why? Indie filmmakers baby!

Does anyone REALLY think Sony makes a dime off building F23's? Hell no. In fact, they most likely lose a TON of money. They build it because it's their "flagship", their "bragging right". And they use the F23 in all their CineAlta literature and advertisements when the reality is they're probably selling 10,000 XDCams to every 1 F23. I recently heard Sony's only imported 150 F23's to the US. 350 World wide. In two years! That's all.

Canon could do the same if they wanted to. Sony did it and will continue to. Panasonic has said "Meh, no thanks." There's an opening there. ;)

when the biggest lens manufacturer doesn't even bother to make a manual HD lens for their top of the line video camera, I really don't think they will go after red.
I'm giving up on canon and my h1 soon after waitng over a year for a proper lens for my camera. I think they don't care about anything but consumer cameras. Probably where the money is.

True. But I've been told that there's really very little demand for a manual HD lens. They'd probably only sell a couple hundred of them. And on top of that the older 16x manual lens actually works really well on the H1.

Canon's engineers and the folks over at Birns & Sawyer have said that the 16x is over-engineered and is actually very well suited to the H1. Even though it's SD rated it's resolving power is good enough for HD. I own one. It's great. But I have to admit ... I don't use it much.

Still, at the end of the day I think the XL line has runs its course for Canon and I doubt we'll see any new products to support it. It's time for something dramatically new. I think Canon knows this. The question is...how will they respond?

Robert-
I thought I said not to say anything!! Now the cat's out of the bag!!

(smiley)(wink-wink)
Jim Martin

I really hope they listened to you, my brother. I really do.

And if they did do something this ballsy, isn't it kind of ironic that Canon would be considered the "underdog" next to RED? Funny, this world we live in.

I move that we close this thread before it becomes a rumor that will wildly spin out of control and, at the end, could possibly disappoint somebody in the future.

Since this thread started, we have the introduction of the 5D II from Canon. It seems to me that this is just the beginning of large single CMOS products from Canon - in both the DSLR and video lines. But is the 2K/4K market big enough for Canon to target?

Can RED match Canon's low-light performance? Now that we have 1080p samples from Canon it appears that the 5DII is the real thing. Does RED have any significant intellectual property that can't be easily matched by Canon? RED makes a big deal about their lossy RAW, but I have a hard time believing that Canon, Sony, and Panasonic can't implement something similar.

I doubt RED cam match Canon in sensor value/performance.

I agree esp. since Canon now has their own sensor factory . I think it's obvious and they're probably already well down the road doing so . I think the 5dmkll wouldn't have been if Canon wasn't planning on putting larger sensor into their video cameras , even though they are a very conservative company , they have no upper end market to protect , and they probably realize they could own the middle ground .

In commerce, there is such a thing as letting some hapless pioneer do the legwork.

The market is allowed to prove itself before the moving in, either by takeover of the pioneer or entering the marketplace with a second generation of the product with a competitive example and better promotion.

What's frustrating for me about the 5D II is that if they only added audio support...

What's frustrating for me about the 5D II is that if they only added audio support...

Do you mean better audio support? It does have a mono mic and 2 channel unbalanced inputs. The two Rode video cam mics (shotgun and stereo) should work on top of the 5dII.
________________

I do think anyone trying to use this camera as a full camcorder replacement is going to be in for a lot of frustration, however. The form factor and lack of controls make it pretty much the camcorder equivalent of a view camera.

My plan is to shoot stock when I'm set up to do still photography. I'm looking at trying it out with the 5DII, but I'm hoping next year we will get better than 1080p in a dslr.

This is a very interesting game RED will be playing with the big guys. There are so many variables that I expect all the players are scratching their heads. To RED's benefit big companies usually make a lot of mistakes.

What's frustrating for me about the 5D II is that if they only added audio support...But the 5D Mk. II does indeed support audio. From the press release issued by Canon: "The new camera features an input terminal for external stereo microphones as well as a built-in monaural microphone for convenience."

In commerce, there is such a thing as letting some hapless pioneer do the legwork.True, but I would not characterize a self-made billionaire as "hapless."

In my opinion, the answer to the question "could (any major Japanese electronics manufacturer) challenge RED?" is most decidedly *no,* they cannot. And the reasons why none of them can challenge RED has less to do with technology than corporate culture. I'm surprised nobody else has mentioned this yet: the challenge that RED presents isn't technology so much as how they run their business. It's completely counter to the way the major Japanese electronics manufacturers operate, and for any one of them to attempt to duplicate RED's success, they would have to throw out their long-established business model of trickle-ware and incremental change... and I just don't see that happening. Not overnight, anyway.

Chris - totally true except for one major aspect , and that's demonstrated by visiting Reds site - it says now serving numbers 2000 and so , up to 2000 and so . That's the problem - manufacturing capacity . If Scarlet is released , and it's the success everyone is hoping for , then how will they meet a production of 60,000 units ? That's why Canon might be smart enough to enter the foray and break with their habits . That and they don't really have any pro 100k camera markets to protect , and the satisfaction gleened from kicking Sonys' tail as revenge for Sony entering the dslr market.

Sure, I can see a RED-Canon war over the Scarlet, since it intrudes on Canon's territory. But it's harder to see Canon getting into the RED ONE - EPIC market -- digital cine cameras are a small market. At least a DSLR that can do 24P 1080 still works as a DSLR, and most people are going to use it to take still camera picture with, not HD video. So it fits within an established marketplace where Canon already exists.

But a major corporation like Canon getting into high-quality digital cinema cameras... a small lower-profit non-mass-consumer market where they have very little presence? For Sony, it makes a little more sense simply as an extension of their high-end broadcasting line -- cameras like the F23 and now the F35 also have broadcast video features (unlike the Genesis which is a bit more stripped down for cinema work in terms of features) and even if the sales numbers are low, they help with marketing their broadcast line.

And as someone said, the one area where Canon does make money in high-end broadcast is HD zoom lenses, and this digital cine camera that uses their DSLR lenses would cut into those profits.

So it's hard to see the corporate reasoning behind getting into that market unless they felt that there was no room anymore for prosumer HDV cameras, that the whole market was going to shift, above cheaper consumer HDV cameras, to either 24P DSLR's at one end and digital cine cameras at the other, with no more mid-level prosumer cameras.

However, I could see Canon tailoring their prosumer HDV cameras to be more competitive with Scarlet in terms of price and features.

...it says now serving numbers 2000 and so , up to 2000 and so . That's the problem - manufacturing capacity.Those numbers actually prove the exact opposite of what you're saying. RED has been incredibly prolific and has now produced more UHD cameras than all of the other D-cinema / UHD camera manufacturers *combined.* They have literally flooded the D-cinema camera market. Their manufacturing capacity -- remember it is outsourced -- isn't a "problem" at all but an asset.

If Scarlet is released... how will they meet a production of 60,000 units ?Frankly I have no idea how they will do it when Scarlet is released, but I'm confident that RED certainly knows how they'll do it. Just because you and I don't have the first clue about how they'll do it, doesn't mean they can't pull it off.

I believe I've said the same thing in other forums. Canon is in the cat-bird seat, not Nikon. Though Sony could also do it. In addition to your astute list. I believe Canon has a bunch of patents on Image stabilization technology (they were the first to release a consumer IS still lens). I'm an old school Nikon still photog but have come to respect Canon optics in recent years and am in love with my humble HV20.
In truth, it's time for some mergers in CameraLand. No reason Nikon & Canon couldn't merge and lead the way to the next gen hybrid cameras. Several participants in the Camcorder race ought to drop out to narrow the field a bit. I personally hate the plethora of non-choice choices so 4 consumer/prosumer camera makers in the world would be more than enough.

I didn't read every single post in this thread, but it seems to me that another lost point is that we wouldn't even be having this discussion if it wasn't for Red popping up a couple years back. Whatever your opinion about them or their products, they did help jump the industry forward and a lot of what you see coming out of the larger more established companies this year and in the coming years is a direct response to the impact that Red has had on the market and on the consumer. I hear what you're saying about their rigid corporate culture and strict product release schedules, but I really do think that the big guys have sped development up a bit to keep up with the new demands.

We as consumers now expect and want more from future product releases from the Canons, Sonys and Panasonics of the world than we would have before Red came along and showed the type of technology that currently existed and what it was capable of. (and at a lowish price) Without Red, this year we would have been happy being offered a 1/3" 1080p camera that was slightly less noisy than the previous model. As it stand now, we're all clamoring for a 5Dish video camera with full manual control and proper form factor for around a 5D price. That's hugely different.

Interesting comments.

As far as Scarlet, the product isn't even defined. So how it fits with the 5DII and other products doesn't seem particularly relevant. There's a big difference between cranking out a 100 4k camera a month and making a volume product.

I don't get the idea that the large Japanese companies can't compete with red because of corporate culture. I'm still looking for what advantages Red has that they can protect. The only one I can come up with is the UHD market is too small for large corporations to go after.

I'm interested to know if the 5DII reads the whole sensor and then bins the pixels down to 1080 30p. That may be what the video processing chip does before handing the smaller data stream to the main processor. Sending the raw data out of the camera through a high speed interface would cost almost nothing.

If I'm doing strategy for Red I'm not thinking that the Japanese can't compete. I'm looking at the core tech of the 5DII and thinking that Canon technology is getting too close for comfort.

Canon makes a $450 dslr with a chip about the same size and capacity (aps-c 12 mp) as RED. What does the near future look like when that camera can output 4K raw video? I don't know, but it's going to be very interesting.

Canon makes a $450 dslr with a chip about the same size and capacity (aps-c 12 mp) as RED.

Same size, yes, but it's a different game to make a chip to a dslr and to a camera like RED. In particular, the art is in making the 12 MP chip fast enough to enable one to shoot 24-50fps or more.

What comes to business style I feel the same way as Chris. Canon, Sony, Nikon all have marketing depts around the world in all major countries and this costs alot. So far RED is nothing but a website, main office in California and the new center to be opened in London.

Multiplying production is not that a major problem I think. Nokia went at some point from several ten/hundred thousands of mobile phones up to tens of millions phones in a very short period.

I don't get the idea that the large Japanese companies can't compete with red because of corporate culture. I think I can define it for you by pointing out these key differences:

RED's CEO and his immediate inner circle are online all the time, actively communicating with their customers. The product development process has been open from the start. The product line itself disrupts the existing market. They are not following the deeply entrenched trickle-ware economy model by which incremental changes are slowly introduced through a succession of separate product revisions over a period of time that would require a separate purchase (as in XL1, XL1S, XL2... or VX1000, VX2000, VX2100... etc.). Instead, the original production units themselves are occasionally recalled for updates and re-fits. They are offering to buy back previous models to facilitate their customers in upgrading to the next model (as in their offer to provide full purchase price trade-in value on a RED One towards the difference in buying the higher-end Epic). They are offering to retro-fit older products with newer components (such as their forthcoming image sensor upgrade program for the RED One). There are other significant corporate culture differences but these are the ones which have been instrumental in delineating RED's radical departure from the long-established Japanese optics / electronics manufacturer's corporate philosophies.

I'm not passing judgment on one side or the other -- just stating the extreme differences between them.

For any of the Japanese majors to compete against RED, the key to doing that successfully does not involve technological advancement so much as it does a rapid shift in the way they do business, and that's like asking an ocean liner to reverse course: it takes a loooong time to turn a big ship around. That's the point I was trying to make.

Same size, yes, but it's a different game to make a chip to a dslr and to a camera like RED. In particular, the art is in making the 12 MP chip fast enough to enable one to shoot 24-50fps or more.



I don't think RED makes any chips. They ordered the sensor from someone with expertise. I don't think anyone would dispute that Canon and Sony have the most expertise and patents in CMOS imaging. I believe RED lists software as their most important asset.

But none of this means Canon or Sony will release a 4K product. I do expect Canon 1 series camera to have better video than the 5DII. But I don't know if "better" means more than 1080p. Without UHD consumer display devices I don't know that the niche is any bigger than RED's target market.

But the 5DII must signal a tidal shift coming in the camcorder market. How they play this new hand will be very interesting. I'm sure the 1080p low light clips from the 5DII is freaking out a lot of competitors.

I'm more psyched about Canon's low light/small DOF ability than wanting more than 1080p.

...I'm more psyched about Canon's low light/small DOF ability than wanting more than 1080p.Regarding Scarlet, the 3k size wasn't for 3k output. It's really for 1080p and 2k delivery. Nobody will deliver in 3k.

There are two reasons to go with 3k. One is that the optical anti-aliasing filter is gradual. To get rid of aliasing, it filters resolution down to the neighborhood of 2.4k. 3k (or 2.4 actual resolution) also lets you do a little re-framing - or show the scene just outside of the intended window on the LCD.

Also consider that Redcode RAW needs to deal with the native resolution, so the captured files will be 3k. Two reasons not to downsample in the camera: one is that the result wouldn't be RAW, the other is that it would require an expensive processor that eats your battery.

Anyway, those are the reasons to want more than 1080p - even for 1080p delivery. You get to work with RAW, you still get true 1080p resolution on your final, and you can re-frame, if needed.

...
What comes to business style I feel the same way as Chris. Canon, Sony, Nikon all have marketing depts around the world in all major countries and this costs alot. So far RED is nothing but a website, main office in California and the new center to be opened in London.
...
I thought Red was opening an entire production ranch/compound complete with sound stages in Las Vegas?

Like Mr. Mullen said, I don't believe Canon or Nikon have any interest in directly challenging Red for the digital cinema market. But Canon must for the high prosumer maket, b/c that's where the XL's and XH's live. If Canon doesn't do something, Scarlet will kill them. Well there is another wildcard... I wonder how this whole financial crisis has effected Red? Hopefully not much.

Canon must for the high prosumer maket, b/c that's where the XL's and XH's live. If Canon doesn't do something, Scarlet will kill them.

Why do people say things like this when we don't even really know what Scarlet will be?



As far as Scarlet, the product isn't even defined. So how it fits with the 5DII and other products doesn't seem particularly relevant.

Exactly.

True. But I've been told that there's really very little demand for a manual HD lens. They'd probably only sell a couple hundred of them. And on top of that the older 16x manual lens actually works really well on the H1.



They'd make more than a couple of hundred manual HD lenses for the 2/3" broadcast cameras, chances are in the high thousands (perhaps not currently in the lower 10 of thousands) in a currently expanding HD broadcast market. Nearly every HD 2/3" camera will have its own manual zoom, plus many will have an optional W/A zoom and not forgetting the more specialized higher zoom range lenses.

I don't think RED makes any chips. They ordered the sensor from someone with expertise.

I don't know for sure, but I think that the RED Mysterium Sensor is their own design, and patented.

Why do people say things like this when we don't even really know what Scarlet will be?
...I know that the baseline for Scarlet was set at $3,500 w/ a 3K 2/3rd's inch sensor. That obliterates Canon. Jim has said that while Scarlet is changing, the result will be more camera, not less.

Barring severe stock market injury, I tend to believe Red will deliver.

yes,

canon already challenged RED with 5D II, because Red chenged the Scarlet plans after it. and this is a very big mistake of red !

this issue is a kind of being big fish or small fish thing. both has its own advantages and disadvantages. "FOR NOW" Red is a small fish. quick and mobile company. but next year it won't have this luxury. so company should make some critical desicions now whether it will grow around the world or stay as a small company in USA and took orders fron internet. Jim jennard should know that web only delivers ideas not the cameras !

If red chooses growing worldwide, should spend considerable time and effort about choosing distirbutors and marketing strategy. I think it is much more harder than listening people's needs and designing 5k camera! Here in Turkey, in İstanbul, there are big distributors that have nearly every kind of video product and famous brands. for example one dealer have 3 brands of cranes and tripods, Sony, Panasonic cameras. these are very big and financialy very reliable distributors for the brands. but at the same time they don't care much of the customer needs. you can't see any products at their web site or comminicate and ask by phone unless you are from a big Television or production company.

so if red chooses such kind of distributor in turkey other countries, it fails. being big company does not mean it isn't operational. but if you have old, big and stable distributors that resist you, then you can't turn quickly.

I think there is one way for growing worldwide. if jim jenard gave birth to this brand with imagination and considering every individual's thoughts, then he have to choose such kind of people to distirbute the Red and its philosophy behind. and such dealers only sell Red not anyother things.

For canon side, Sony pushes pressure to it with its EX series much more than Red I think. because it was a killjoy to intrduce 1/2 " sensor. So canon must do something. but it wont introduce 35 mm sensor. maybe bigger than 1/3 inch, but 1080 50p, different codec for sure...

tnhks
alkım.

... Red chenged the Scarlet plans after it. and this is a very big mistake of red ! Huh? They've announced their decision to improve it -- how is that a mistake?

Jim jennard... jim jenardGeez... at least spell his name right. Credibility slips away with every typo.

Do you mean better audio support? It does have a mono mic and 2 channel unbalanced inputs. The two Rode video cam mics (shotgun and stereo) should work on top of the 5dII.

Hmm... that does make things different. And for the same price, after you get the lenses, as an XH-A1, and with things like Beachtek adapters for plugging in XLR mics... and with a 30 minute 1080p record time...

Bah. I'll stick with my HV20s for now.

I know that the baseline for Scarlet was set at $3,500 w/ a 3K 2/3rd's inch sensor. That obliterates Canon.

Clearly you are not correct. If that spec "obliterates" canon, then there would have been zero need for Red to completley redesign the Scarlet. None.

Scarlet's baseline couldn't compete with what Canon is releasing and that's why the specs are changing. There's nothing wrong with Red changing their specs and trying to keep up and compete and even possibly trump the current crop of DSLRs. I have no issues with that at all. But to claim that Red is going to obliterate Canon is pure hyperbole. Especially when your evidence of what obliterates Canon are specs that Red itself decided weren't going to be able to compete in a way that they had hoped.

>>>Geez... at least spell his name right. Credibility slips away with every typo.<<<

I think he's doing pretty good since his native language is probably Turkish .

Language is no excuse for misspelling a name... I can properly spell Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, Nicolae Ceauşescu, and Ferenc Puskás even though I can't write or speak Turkish, Romanian, or Hungarian.

Clearly you are not correct. If that spec "obliterates" canon, then there would have been zero need for Red to completley redesign the Scarlet. None.

Scarlet's baseline couldn't compete with what Canon is releasing and that's why the specs are changing. There's nothing wrong with Red changing their specs and trying to keep up and compete and even possibly trump the current crop of DSLRs. I have no issues with that at all. But to claim that Red is going to obliterate Canon is pure hyperbole. Especially when your evidence of what obliterates Canon are specs that Red itself decided weren't going to be able to compete in a way that they had hoped.David, if you read a few posts up, you'll see that I'm refering to Canon's current crop of video cameras. Not what you think might becoming out.

I don't think RED makes any chips. They ordered the sensor from someone with expertise.

You are not the first one to make such a claim. Many people have speculated which label is there on the sensor. But Jim Jannard has said explicitly it's a RED sensor and that the sensor program is a key part of their design. Personally have no reason to believe anything else.

Peter, yes RED is opening their new site somewhere near Las Vegas. But they are also opening a site near London. European camera owners will send their cameras to the audio hardware update --free update including shipping costs plus some other smaller hardware updates-- to this new branch office in England.

Having used the camera for 6 months and although I'm targeting to 1080p still find the head space given by the 4K format more than useful. Consequently, shoot most of the time 4K, and employ 3K or 2K only when need higher fps.

I don't doubt that it's a custom sensor built to RED's spec. I wasn't say they were using someone's standard sensor. But as I said somewhere in this thread, even Jannard has said their primary asset is software. When a company has sensor experts and works with a fab to make their own design, I would say they are making their own sensor. But that's a long way from the hundreds of millions of dollars Canon has spent on sensor development. RED's actual cost per sensor is likely more than the retail price of the 5DII.

If Canon builds a 4K APS-C size sensor for video, it might have much better low light performance than the 5DII. It would have huge photosites compared to current DSLRs. But this is speculation, as we don't know how Canon goes from a 21mp sensor to 2mp for 1080.

I'm sure on the low end - Scarlett - RED is trying to not get stepped on by the Japanese elephants. They need to position Scarlett correctly.

RED must have big plans. I don't see how they could ever make a decent ROI in the Cine digital area. They don't charge enough. Scarlett must be critical to profitability. I hope they know what they're doing. I would really like RED to shake up the conservative imaging companies.

For users it's all good.

Like Mr. Mullen said, I don't believe Canon or Nikon have any interest in directly challenging Red for the digital cinema market. But Canon must for the high prosumer maket, b/c that's where the XL's and XH's live. If Canon doesn't do something, Scarlet will kill them. Well there is another wildcard... I wonder how this whole financial crisis has effected Red? Hopefully not much.

Does Canon even make a 2/3" 3 CCD camera? If not, they will likely come out with a single CMOS design with lenses for that market. How does RED compare to 2/3" CCD cameras used for television?

Does Canon even make a 2/3" 3 CCD camera?No.

If not, they will likely come out with... lenses for that market. Already done:

Canon's HD Electronic Cinema FJs Prime Lens Series (http://www.usa.canon.com/html/industrial_bctv/p_hdec_FJs5_intro.shtml)