View Full Version : Tripod Fixing on EX3
Jamie Peters September 2nd, 2008, 01:52 PM I am very concerned about the tripod fixing on the base of my new EX3. It only has a single small ¼ inch dia. screw to hold this large camera to the tripod. When fitted to my Manfrotto 503 head using the standard quick release plate (501 PL Slide Plate) I find that the camera vibrates from side to side in a light wind when outside, resulting in unstable video images especially when on telephoto. Also the fixing screw worked loose after a short period of use.
I have now carefully examined the base of the camera and am very concerned that this single screw which is only screwed in a few threads will shear off or pull out and allow the camera to drop off of the tripod. The small rectangular fixing block in the base of the camera appears to be fixed to the camera chassis by 4 very small screws which also concerns me.
The surrounding plastic base area appears (by gently pressing) not to be load bearing other than 4 small raised blobs (2 at front and 2 near rear corners) which when the camera is set on a flat surface make contact and stabilise the camera.
I use both miller DS20 and Manfrotto 503 (501 similar fixing) Fluid Heads with plates approx. 95mm x 40mm wide. These in my opinion are not large enough to spread the load on the camera base and probably the reason why the camera was unstable and the screw worked loose in field use.
To help this overcome this I have made up an adapter plate that sits between the tripods quick release plate and the camera base. This plate is approx. 120mm long and 70mm wide and 3mm thick (could be thicker)
The load is now spread more evenly across the camera’s base onto the main centre fixing and the 4 outer corner spots. The screw now keeps much tighter and the camera is now much more stable with less force on the fixing screw. However I am still very worried that with only one small fixing screw for a camera of this size and weight that one day the camera will end up falling to the ground and Sony telling me its not their problem. The camera is sold with the options to fit larger lens units, hard drives, bigger batteries, lights, mics, etc. I feel that someone at Sony seems to have forgotten about how this ¼ inch screw will take the strain out in the field. To me the camera fixing is of poor design not suitable for the EX3 camera.
My advice - if you move the camera while its fitted to your tripod make sure you keep it upright because if you carry them at an angle you will be lucky if does not shear off. Best to remove the camera before moving tripod location if you can. Also may be best to avoid any artistic shots that require moving the camera sideways (side tilt) on the tripod head – keep it upright!.
Have not seen this EX3 issue before on the forum so would welcome your experiences and thoughts also has any one any similar problems with the lighter EX1.
Many Thanks
Justin Benn September 2nd, 2008, 05:55 PM This really sounds like a problem with the plate design that came with the head. I believe that there are a few after-market options for fitting a screw and pin arrangement and I would check with the head manufacturer first. Certainly my Miller DV20 Solo has the double arrangement.
However......, I will still be purchasing a separate plate and adapter next week when I collect the remainder of my gear from NY. This will mitigate the issue of small plate area which, as you say, is likely to induce a shearing effect on the screw, even if it doesn't completely eliminate the leverage effect and could, in fact, be said to accentuate it albeit indirectly. If you feel you need this you might look out for plates like Panasonics SHAN-TM700 or Sony's own VCT-U14 (half the price). It's not a cheap solution. Meant for larger cameras, you will need an adapter plate such as one offered by Protech (ST-1) to fix to the bottom of the camera so it can attach to the larger, much longer plate.
I have seen photos on the web of folk like Steve Cahill and Phil Bloom use such an arrangement to good effect (Phil can be seen using this set-up on the DS20 head too).
[PS - even though I have recommend Protech twice in a day, I'm not connected in any way - just noticed their gear might help bridge the gap between the EX series and pro-size cams].
Alister Chapman September 3rd, 2008, 12:34 AM I think the design of the tripod boss on the EX3 is terrible. Such a shame on an otherwise excellent camera. The shape of the base of the camera is bad as it curves upwards away from the tripod mount. Anyone using heavy lenses will find it difficult to get stable. I'm using an adaptor the has integral matt box bars so the camera is supported by both the lens and tripod mount. This is much more stable.
Andy Wilkinson September 3rd, 2008, 01:53 PM I think the design of the tripod boss on the EX3 is terrible. Such a shame on an otherwise excellent camera. The shape of the base of the camera is bad as it curves upwards away from the tripod mount.
Yep, I agree, I noticed this when I first got the camera and thought it odd. I use a Manfrotto quick release slide plate on top of a Libec LS37 and it now seems to work OK though. Another one for Sony to fix for the EX5 (along with a stowable/fold away LDC for more compact bag carrying and a better SxS door, i.e. one that fits tightly flush/is less likely to be ripped off!)...Otherwise, an EXCELLENT camera from my use/opinion of it so far. Getting some stunning stuff! We filmed a vetinary operation with it today for a major client. Blood and guts in full 1920x1080. Definitely a Certificate Parental Guidance that one's going to be!
Ted OMalley September 3rd, 2008, 05:48 PM I agree - the curving front of the base seemed very peculiar. I'm building a new mount entirely, but as a stop-gap I added smaller rubber feet (like for the bottom of electronics) on either side and just forward of the tripod receptacle. In this way, when I screw the adapter plate on the bottom of the camera, these rubber feet compress holding everything tightly. This also helps to prevent and lateral movement which can loosen the screw.
Jamie Peters September 4th, 2008, 05:12 AM Thanks for all your comments.
What ever method/adaptor plate we use to fix the camera to a tripod and improvements we may make the fact still remains that the camera is only held in place by one small screw. The camera needs 2 well spaced fixing points then I would be much happier.
Ted OMalley September 4th, 2008, 08:34 AM Except that they new mount I'm building will actually connect to the tripod mount as well as the two screw holes at the rear - three points in all.
David C. Williams September 5th, 2008, 11:04 PM Except that they new mount I'm building will actually connect to the tripod mount as well as the two screw holes at the rear - three points in all.
A sleek fitted base with multiple 1/4 20 holes that screws into the EX3 tripod base and the rear mounts would be a good seller I think. I'll buy one from you :)
Jamie Peters September 7th, 2008, 07:56 AM Interesting Idea Ted to use the extra 2 (approx 3mm dia.) holes at the rear under the shoulder pad this should help reduce lateral movement. Perhaps when you have made it you could post a picture. By the way what are these 2 small threaded holes for? and will using these invalidate any warranty? Thanks
Ray Bell September 7th, 2008, 08:05 AM The holes are for the cheek pad... that most folks don't use...
Good idea to use them... I sure we'd all like to see pictures of the plate...
Ted OMalley September 7th, 2008, 01:51 PM Well, it isn't built yet!! The dilemma was to provide a shoulder-mount and tripod mount base all in one that would collapse easily without removing gear for storage. Also, it needed to be balanced somewhat for both duties.
In shoulder-mount duty, center of gravity is near the SxS slots - right near your chest. This isn't perfect, but it's a huge improvement.
In tripod duty, with the shoulder portion collapsed, the center of gravity moves to very near the tripod mount.
Oh, and the handle at the front is removeable - 1/4x20 threads - and top portion of it is a zoom controllor (libec, bebob, etc.) so you can zoom and support right-handed and leave the left free for everything else.
I'm just still designing and obtaining all the parts needed, but I do have a few images!
Enjoy...
(here's a short video also - but the pad is different) http://vimeo.com/1685711
Jamie Peters September 11th, 2008, 01:47 PM Have spoken to Sony re the Tripod fixing and was told the camera could not be modified to give additional 1/4in fixing points in the base. Also told camera was probably designed mainly for hand held users. When advised of my concerns re camera falling off due to screw failure. I was advised to take care when fitting and using on tripod as any damage would not be covered by warranty.
I see there is another post asking about fixing to a monopod, my response would be 'this cameras too heavy for a single screw don't even think about it'.
Alister Chapman September 15th, 2008, 01:31 AM I have been told that Sony are very aware of the issue and are investigating various options, including the possibility of changing the bottom of the camera housing. No decisions have been made but I think there will be a modification available some time in the future or an adapter plate that will spread the forces across more of the camera base.
David C. Williams September 15th, 2008, 01:56 AM I see there is another post asking about fixing to a monopod, my response would be 'this cameras too heavy for a single screw don't even think about it'.
I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. As long as the plate fits the full length of the base of the EX3, and the plate also has a rubberised surface for high friction, it will be fine for normal use. If you use it like a cricket bat you might break it.
I have mine mounted on a Steadicam Flyer-LE, and it mounts quite solidly. Yes it could be better, and if Sony had spent 10 seconds to think about it they could have done that easily, but it's not too bad.
Bob Grant September 15th, 2008, 02:11 AM I have been told that Sony are very aware of the issue and are investigating various options, including the possibility of changing the bottom of the camera housing. No decisions have been made but I think there will be a modification available some time in the future or an adapter plate that will spread the forces across more of the camera base.
This is what needs to be done. My concern is not so much that there's only one 1/4" screw holding the camera plate onto the tripod plate it what's holding that diecast plate to the camera. It appears to be only 4x 2mm CSK screws. The ones holding what appears to be an indentical part onto many other Sony cameras work loose over time. I'd also add we've had a number of much lighter cameras' (HC7, A1) bottom assemblies crack from the stress.
Some of the Miller release plates have two raised rubber inserts. They miss the tripod attachment plate on the bottom of all Sony cameras and as noted it gets worse with the EX3 due to the curve in the molding. As the 1/4" bolt is tightened the force is being exerted in a manner that's trying to rip the mounting plate out of the camera thanks to the two rubber inserts.
Peter Mykusz September 16th, 2008, 02:28 PM There is a product that exists here in Toronto that is well engineered and it's available right now. I used it for a shoot and it solved a lot of issues that have been discussed.
Yes, the camera mount on the small EX cameras is held in place by 4 small screws and you wouldn't believe the thin internal plate that they are attached to. Perhaps it's part of the design to have the 1/4 inch mount shear off to prevent further damage when a camera is knocked down. A rental house (Joe Sutherland Rentals Inc. - Canada's Premier Supplier of High Tech Video Equipment! (http://www.joesutherland.com)) here had 2 EX-1 cameras come back damaged with those 4 screws ripped off. Joe Sutherland Rentals has the largest XDCAM rental inventory with over 70 XDCAM 330s,355s,530s, EX-3s and even the new 700. Joe asked the people at PCI (www.pci-canada.com) to make a camera reinforcing mount for the dozen EX-3 cameras that he has. He was concerned that the larger 2/3" lenses might create a potential problem with the mounts. He sketched out what he needed and the engineer at PCI built a strong, solid plate that is amazing. The EX-3 now can click on or off a tripod just like a regular camera with this mount. It's solid as a rock. It was built by the same people who make the HD heavy duty replacement handles with mounting holes for monitors, receivers, etc.( available at VFGadgets.com | Innovative Products for the Video & Film Industry (http://www.vfgadgets.com) ) They also make a mini HDV Handle Bracket for adding extra lights or transmitters to a mini camera.
I have been shooting since 1983 with full size cameras. The small cameras are awkward to hold as the design puts too much pressure on your wrist. The good news is that with this bracket, the EX-3 feels like a full size camera. Everything fits nicely for me. I have tried 3 brackets from different vendors but they did not work for me. I even bought an old film camera body mount to solve the comfort issue. This new bracket is the best thing that I have used and I recommend it highly. I took photos of the mount at Joe's shop to show the actual mount. There are a few extra units and you may be able to get them from PCI.
Peter Mykusz
HD Cameraman, Toronto
Mike Chandler September 16th, 2008, 05:51 PM Where are the pix, Peter?
Justin Benn September 16th, 2008, 08:14 PM Peter,
Are these PCI plates listed on their site? Curious to see the implementation. And cost!
Jus.
Peter Mykusz September 16th, 2008, 11:07 PM I sent the photos to the gallery but they must be in line for approval, I guess. I'll try to resend them now.
The plate is new and PCI may not have set a price. I'll call them in the morning.
Peter Mykusz September 18th, 2008, 10:55 PM There are 4 photos of the camera plate on my personal network gallery. I have not been able to upload to the Image Gallery because I get a page saying that I don't have permission to access that page. Perhaps the moderator can insert my photos.
Here is a link to one of the photos.
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/members/peter-mykusz-albums-sony-ex-3-xdcam-camera-mount-picture87-ex-3-tripod-mount-snaps-into-regular-camera-plate-provides-solid-support-camera-accessories-built-precision-camera-inc-toronto-joe-sutherland-rentals.jpg
I found out that the mount that I used was an early prototype as the black anodized paint was not applied to the one that I used. The people at PCI are still deciding on the final camera shoulder mount. The mount solves the issues of the questionable tripod mounting screw and adds a few new features to it. The photos show a practical, solid well engineered product. The most important feature is not that obvious. It transforms the small-awkward-to-hold camera into a solid camera that has the feel of a compact Betacam. It feels great on the shoulder because the battery adds weight to the back to balance the camera. The viewfinder is in the right spot for me. I'll send a few photos of the completed mount as soon as Joe Sutherland gets them.
I found out from PCI that they expect the items to be ready in "a couple of weeks."
Ted OMalley September 22nd, 2008, 04:16 PM I've asked them about adding a hinged section to support an AB or IDX battery - collapsable for storage, extendable to lower center of gravity and balance camera better. They are looking into it...
Here's an example...
Alister Chapman September 23rd, 2008, 12:42 AM I would suggest that having the shoulder mount so close to the camera body will lead to neck strain as you will have to tilt your head back to use the viewfinder. I think the shoulder mount needs to be further away from the camera body.
Ted OMalley September 23rd, 2008, 08:19 AM Alister,
I would have thought the same thing. However, I "built" two versions and actually found this to be much more comfortable. Because of the flexibility of the EX3's eyepeice, I can actually move it too far forward and find I need to bring it back a little. My last design, with the shoulder mount about four inches further back, was never comfortable and the eyepiece was never close enough and I had to lean into it.
Admittedly, we are all built differently, but I found this much more comfortable.
Jason Davenport September 23rd, 2008, 04:31 PM It would be great to have the ability to have rails. What if you want to a follow focus or matte box. And some kind of shoulder pad, looks great but hand holding that hard aluminum plate to your shoulder would last about 10 minutes, before it would dig into the bone...
And does anyone know where to find the plate parts (like the blue front plate and rear)?-for unrelated project.
Peter Mykusz September 23rd, 2008, 10:30 PM There is a version with rails. Here is the photo of the prototype
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/members/peter-mykusz-albums-sony-ex-3-xdcam-camera-mount-picture88-ex-3-plate-rails-available-reinforce-bottom-tripod-screw-mount-add-shade-camera.jpg
Alister - The mount was originally made to give the camera more stability so that the interchangeable lenses would not damage the 1/4 inch mounting screw. Joe Sutherland Rentals had 2 EX-1s come back damaged with the mount ripped out. Joe spent time on a sketch and talked with the people at PCI to make a heavy duty mount for the EX-3s. The result is a mount that is solid and snaps on to a regular camera plate. A "V" mount is on the back to take batteries or receivers. A standard tripod plate can be attached to it also. The shoulder mount is perfect with a camera pad velcroed on the plate. One of the cameramen who saw it thought that that it was a poor design until he put it on his shoulder. Now he wants one for his camera. The camera package feels very comfortable on the shoulder just like a standard full size camera - only lighter. There is no need for a hinge as per the drawing as you will hit someone in the head with a long back end. The mounts are in anodized black paint.
I hope that the photo shows up on this page. It works on my computer.
Ted OMalley September 23rd, 2008, 10:56 PM Thanks, Peter.
Yes, rails are available as the images show. Also, pads are an element that are necessary and would be part of the final product - just not sourced and therefore not shown. Thanks, Jason, for your attention to detail - I should have mentioned that.
Dean Harrington September 24th, 2008, 12:22 AM I've asked them about adding a hinged section to support an AB or IDX battery - collapsable for storage, extendable to lower center of gravity and balance camera better. They are looking into it...
Here's an example...
Wonderful design ~ let me know if this comes off as I think I'd like to get one as well.
Alister Chapman September 24th, 2008, 12:42 AM I wasn't putting the design down, It was just an observation. I have another one.... Are the matte box rails far enough away from the camera body. The very short body means that for many matte boxes and accessories the rails need to be at least 45mm below the camera body. The bracket looks to be very well constructed and I too would be interested in one if the design works well.
Jason Davenport September 24th, 2008, 08:42 PM Thanks Peter,
Very cool!! Great work. That's basically problem solved. I think it great to see all the new products that are coming out, and in design, already, for this camera.
What is the lens height from base to center of the lens, with plate, does it get it close to a full size. Thinking of the compensation for a prompter being added to camera. If the rail adapter gets it close or the same, then very cool and no problem.. It just ends up being a little short and it would be great not to have to bother with the riser block that would be need on prompter plate, that is usually used to compensate to raise the height.
Doing a weekly show with two EX-3's and one is on the jib with prompter. And it would be one last thing to mess with, could just snap it on there, and go.
Ted OMalley September 30th, 2008, 04:00 PM The EX3 mount - the BPB-EX3 - is available for purchase now. However, I'm sad to say that it won't include the hinged section that I've designed to located the battery further back. Furthermore, it seems that it is being sold without the shoulder pad - which I don't quite understand.
Oh, and you'll have to be doing pretty well in today's economoy to justify it. it has been priced at $575. But it is black!
EX3 Heavy Duty Base Plate | VFGadgets.com (http://www.vfgadgets.com/grip-camera/ex3-heavy-duty-base-plate)
Jason Davenport September 30th, 2008, 08:37 PM Ah yes, and here comes the "Video and Film Equipment" mark-up. No thanks. Time for MacGyver to step in..
Dean Harrington September 30th, 2008, 11:12 PM Over priced for what it is!
Zachary Fink October 1st, 2008, 02:21 AM I'll weigh in too - I was lined up to buy one... until I saw the price. Now I'm bound for my friend's garage and his welder.
Ted OMalley October 1st, 2008, 06:02 AM I'm working with Jeff DeMaagd now (DM Accessories) and we'll try to put somthing together quickly. The differences?
- It would be based on my designs
- Includes a hinged section at the rear to both lower center of gravity and counterbalance the lens
- It would include padding for the shoulder
So, the question is, should it include the electronics (plate for Dionic 90 or IDX or SWIT) with a cable for the EX3? This will increase manufacturing costs substantially. Or, can it be left to the purchaser to add their preferred battery/mic system? Any thoughts?
Dean Harrington October 1st, 2008, 06:12 AM I'm working with Jeff DeMaagd now (DM Accessories) and we'll try to put somthing together quickly. The differences?
- It would be based on my designs
- Includes a hinged section at the rear to both lower center of gravity and counterbalance the lens
- It would include padding for the shoulder
So, the question is, should it include the electronics (plate for Dionic 90 or IDX or SWIT) with a cable for the EX3? This will increase manufacturing costs substantially. Or, can it be left to the purchaser to add their preferred battery/mic system? Any thoughts?
Keep it simple ~ later if it really has an impact make all kinds of additions!
Justin Benn October 1st, 2008, 06:59 PM I'm working with Jeff DeMaagd now (DM Accessories) and we'll try to put somthing together quickly. The differences?
- It would be based on my designs
- Includes a hinged section at the rear to both lower center of gravity and counterbalance the lens
- It would include padding for the shoulder
So, the question is, should it include the electronics (plate for Dionic 90 or IDX or SWIT) with a cable for the EX3? This will increase manufacturing costs substantially. Or, can it be left to the purchaser to add their preferred battery/mic system? Any thoughts?
Having seen the VF price, I'd consider a stripped down version from you and Jeff. I would'nt always need the shoulder pads there or a hinged section since I already have some Zacuto gear for all that. A nice, stiff and strong (and light? Can the plates be machined/scooped out a bit?) 3-point plate is what I'm looking for.
Thanks for your enterprising spirit,
Jus.
Jason Davenport October 1st, 2008, 10:41 PM Still unsure how your weight transfer will work, if you are using a Anton Bauer dionic it only weighs 1.7 pounds. And at the farther back position of the shoulder area, still seems a bit to far back. Even being in a lower position, it's still to light. Add the hand grips and there is more front weight.. Problem is still too front heavy. A full size brick that weighs close to 5 pounds would do it, though.
For me personally I (not being a matte box snob) like to have use of a matte box along with follow focus, for function and to help sell the camera to my clients who are used to having full size Cinealta's rigs and are afraid of seeing a smaller (consumer) looking cameras on the set. (Until they are sold on the beautiful images this camera can make of course).
Even with my rig, to make it center balanced I add a 3 lbs weight in rear audio bag that I made for it. And my shoulder pad area is almost under the camera. All this and its close to 18 to 20 lbs. Still 4 to 7 lbs lighter than full size, but I can rest the camera on shoulder and hold a balanced shot.
Here's my rig: http://i38.tinypic.com/24ywoaw.jpg
But the problem is I can't just click off the tripod and go hand held, I have to stop down pull camera and add shoulder pad to rails and then adjust everything.
If there was a way to simply snap in the shoulder mount below the plate (to have the shoulder pad under it, than behind) and no adjustment. would be cool. Here's a very crude drawing..http://i36.tinypic.com/30l2csh.jpg
I don't know... this a very tough nut to crack. For this camera to be universal to all, easy to put on sticks and pull off to run hand held (for some time) and add accessories and to be balanced as the larger counter parts, is a hard one..
Alister Chapman October 2nd, 2008, 01:52 AM Jason: I hadn't thought about turning the Indian matte box support around like that, but it is a good idea.
I look at many of these designs and I can't help but think the shoulder supports are too close to the VF. My eyes when I stand up straight are roughly in line with the front of my chest. Many of these home-brew shoulder mounts are placing the VF over the centre of the shoulder, so in use you must be leaning backwards and with long term use it's going to give you back or neck problems.
This isn't an easy nut to crack, and I've gone through a few prototype mounts. The EX3 is very front heavy, a situation made worse by the fact that the eyepiece cup is well to the rear of the camera. I'm not sure that without creating a 4ft long camera you can get it to balance comfortably on your shoulder, especially if you start adding heavier lenses or matte boxes. Certainly you can shift the center of gravity further back by putting some kind of V-Lock or AB mount to the rear of the camera, but it's always going to be front heavy.
Ted OMalley October 2nd, 2008, 08:58 AM Still unsure how your weight transfer will work, if you are using a Anton Bauer dionic it only weighs 1.7 pounds. And at the farther back position of the shoulder area, still seems a bit to far back. Even being in a lower position, it's still to light. Add the hand grips and there is more front weight.. Problem is still too front heavy. A full size brick that weighs close to 5 pounds would do it, though.
Jason,
I've tested the arrangement in the latest design. My goal was to lighten the front of the camera as much as possible while adding as little weight as possible. That is why the battery extends so far to the rear. I actually sticks out about six or seven inches behind my back and counters the same amount of weight five or six inches in front of me. It's a considerable improvement. To completely "balance" the camera on your shoulder, it would require an additional three or four pounds (roughly) set on the back of the bracket that the A/B or IDX battery is attached to.
Also, though you could add them, I've removed the handle in this design due to wanting to reduce weight. Also, in this configuration, the cameras handgrip is quite comfortable.
This design can go from shoulder to tripod without adjustment, but the idea is that if you fold up the battery section, the weight of the camera is balanced over the tripod head. Folding down the battery secion moves the "balance" to your shoulder.
And, yes, rails can be added. The frontmost area of the bottom plate is where an extension could attach and onto which rails would mount. Below this attachment would be a new tripod mounting plate. So, now on rails, the center of gravity is raise a bit, but it makes for a quick transfer. Also, if using rails (with matte box, grips, focus, etc.) the front is much heavier. The battery folded down would be needed to balance on a tripod. Shoulder mount will just be heavy without further customization.
However, considering the replies of Justin and Dean, we'll probably start with a fairly simple yet effective design that is customizable as necessary. For those "handy" types, they could quite literally drill additional mounting holes and all whatever equipment they wanted once the main plate is in place.
Pics here:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/941086-post21.html
Ted OMalley October 2nd, 2008, 09:06 AM I look at many of these designs and I can't help but think the shoulder supports are too close to the VF. My eyes when I stand up straight are roughly in line with the front of my chest. Many of these home-brew shoulder mounts are placing the VF over the centre of the shoulder, so in use you must be leaning backwards and with long term use it's going to give you back or neck problems.
Alister,
I've had the same misgivings as you, and the first time I considered this (two months ago or so) I rejected it outright because I imagined it would be terribly uncomfortable and an unnatural position. After several tests, however, I've changed my mind. Tucking the right hand closer to the chest alleviates a tremendous amount of the strain to the shoulder. Also, I have a tendance to sit and stand with my head more forward than I should - my posture is a little off. Despite this, I actually have to move the eyepiece closer to me in order to look through it. It is actually too far from my eye!
I understand that what worked for me might not work for everyone, and that it looks akward as a picture. I'm just saying that I was rather pleasantly surprised to learn that it could actually be tucked in a little tighter (if the camera allowed for it) before any discomfort or unnatural positions were introduced.
Jason Davenport October 2nd, 2008, 10:21 AM Jason: I hadn't thought about turning the Indian matte box support around like that, but it is a good idea.
I look at many of these designs and I can't help but think the shoulder supports are too close to the VF. My eyes when I stand up straight are roughly in line with the front of my chest. Many of these home-brew shoulder mounts are placing the VF over the centre of the shoulder, so in use you must be leaning backwards and with long term use it's going to give you back or neck problems.
This isn't an easy nut to crack, and I've gone through a few prototype mounts. The EX3 is very front heavy, a situation made worse by the fact that the eyepiece cup is well to the rear of the camera. I'm not sure that without creating a 4ft long camera you can get it to balance comfortably on your shoulder, especially if you start adding heavier lenses or matte boxes. Certainly you can shift the center of gravity further back by putting some kind of V-Lock or AB mount to the rear of the camera, but it's always going to be front heavy.
It's actually a CAVISION matte box system, and the shoulder mount gets set back a little further and the two part shoulder pad splits in two pieces and becomes longer for a adjustment.And the viewfinder is rotated to the furthest position towards front.
Actually have been very happy with their stuff. Just wish all of this would stay on and click on tripod.
Still can't believe they want 575 for the mount from VFgagets. Still just, pisses me off.
Go to it TED..
Alister Chapman October 3rd, 2008, 10:56 AM Here's my latest V-Lock mount adapter and matte box rails. I wanted to keep the rails separate from the V mount as I won't always be using the matte box. The rails and matte box help with the tripod mounting as the camera is supported by both the tripod fixing bush and the lens as the matte box has a rigid lens clamp ring. This stops any tendency for the camera to rock. The rails were purchased from ebay for £75 and I've added an extension and Sony type wedge so that I can use it on a standard Sony snatch plate. The V-Lock adapter/shoulder support can be quickly removed without tools. I've used a wedge adapter available from my local photographic suppliers. I need to get some foam to complete the shoulder pad. This is still work in progress, but I am reasonably happy with this current version.
Ted OMalley October 3rd, 2008, 01:39 PM Alister-
Looks pretty nice, keep up the good work!
Zachary Fink October 3rd, 2008, 07:08 PM This design can go from shoulder to tripod without adjustment, but the idea is that if you fold up the battery section, the weight of the camera is balanced over the tripod head. Folding down the battery secion moves the "balance" to your shoulder.
However, considering the replies of Justin and Dean, we'll probably start with a fairly simple yet effective design that is customizable as necessary. For those "handy" types, they could quite literally drill additional mounting holes and all whatever equipment they wanted once the main plate is in place.
I've been following this thread from the start. I'm on a documentary production in Hawaii having shot here for two months with EX1s, and now using an EX3. I like the camera, but would really LOVE it if I could get some more balance on the shoulder - especially with my Cavision mattebox mounted up (no rails).
I was all set to order a shoulder/tripod mount from VFGadgets, but no way at that price. I don't use aftermarket batteries, but like the idea of having weight further back like on that hinged setup you spec'd Ted. Perhaps a wireless mic could velcro there. Padding for my shoulder is a priority, as most of the work I do I shoot on the fly. Unlike my last shoulder mount, I love Ted's idea that no adjustments need be made to get it on the tripod - and that it reinforces the crummy tripod mounting plate on the EX3. Price is obviously a priority too!
All in all, it sounds like you've got a good thing going Ted. I'd be VERY interested in one of your mounts when you have it done. I'm shooting here until the end of Oct, and would love to field test it!
Cheers
Ted OMalley October 3rd, 2008, 07:31 PM Zachary,
Thanks for the support. Our goal is to provide twice the mount at half the price. This should make it a fairly popular item and provided we make a little, the volume will make it worthwhile. Drawings and designs are nearly complete, and we've sourced some prototype elements as well as some production ones.
Hopefully, within two weeks, the prototype will begin to be built. Very shortly after, we'll start a small run - a couple dozen units - and see how they're received.
Please stay tuned...
Zsolt Gordos October 4th, 2008, 09:11 AM I read this thread with much interest. It confirms my observation that Sony has designed EX3 with creatures like the Humpback of the Notre Dame in mind.
When I tried EX3 first, I was not able to find a comfortable position.
I remember one car mechanic guy once fiddling with something under my car: "If I can reach it, I can't see it, if I can see it, I can't reach it." As if he predicted the coming of the EX3.
In any position the viewfinder was so far from my eyes that I was wondering whether a gorilla should be hired to operate this unit.
I worry once I will buy EX3, soon after that Sony will come out with a new version, suitable to human body and I will have nothing left but my back pain and some swearing.
Ted OMalley October 4th, 2008, 09:42 AM I read this thread with much interest. It confirms my observation that Sony has designed EX3 with creatures like the Humpback of the Notre Dame in mind.
The test subject/guinea pig that I hired for testing the new mount always struck me as a bit odd. Now that I am looking at his job application, I see the problem. I can't believe the name "Quasimodo" didn't 'ring a bell' sooner.
Back to the drawing board...
;-)
Dan Chung October 9th, 2008, 05:46 AM Any progress with this yet? I'm just about to order a VCT14 adapter plate from here True Lens Services Ltd Matte Box Support Systems & Accessiories (http://www.truelens.co.uk/acatalog/Matte_Box_Support_Systems_&_Acees.html)
But wondered if you were even close to a better solution.
Dan
Ted OMalley October 9th, 2008, 08:01 AM Any progress with this yet? I'm just about to order a VCT14 adapter plate from here True Lens Services Ltd Matte Box Support Systems & Accessiories (http://www.truelens.co.uk/acatalog/Matte_Box_Support_Systems_&_Acees.html)
But wondered if you were even close to a better solution.
Dan
I'm awaiting receipt of a part that will be immediately sent to the fabricator once received. Following this, we still have fabrication and testing. I wish I could provide an ETA, but I'd guess that since it is almost mid-Oct now, this could take until late Nov or early Dec. (six to eight weeks?).
That adapter plate looks nice, but I'd be careful with it as the only fastening point to the camera is the 1/4-20 threads on the base of the camera, and that piece is held in place by four eyeglass screws. It is a bit of a weak point.
Dan Chung October 9th, 2008, 08:56 AM Thanks for the update, have you got an idea of price yet? and will it have a bars interface? did you decide to offer it with a V- lock battery plate? I might hang on if it is going to be the killer solution.
Dan
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