Thanks again Dan,

"Focussing is done on the live view screen"


from the various videos I have seen I though this was the case. I think this may be a severe limitation for those photographers/cameramen who saw the D90 as a "One Stop - do it all creative centre"

I know Canon are show casing their new camera this week, maybe this will have some features that may make me change my mind as to which camera is going to be the one for me.

Having voiced my views on the D90, I still think it is a pioneering acheivement and another turning point for photography. Your movie compilation of the party is very good, and viewers should also take into consideration that this was all shot in very low light and hand held.

I am convinced by the quality now.
but just a simple question, I would like to know how do you bring the clip from the memory card to the edit software. Also does it have to render ?

I wonder, is the HDMI output active during video capture? If so, an HDMI monitor is the solution for those who want critical focus.

"Focussing is done on the live view screen"


from the various videos I have seen so far, I thought that auto focus was indeed turned off during video capture. Footage that I have seen desn't quite hit the focus mark in many clips. From my own experience, HD requires more critical focussing than SD. This could be be a severe limitation for photographers/cameramen.

I know Canon are showing their new camera this week (on the 17) , maybe it will have some extra features, hopefull video catpture, that may make me change my mind as to which camera is going to be the one for me.

However, I suspect we are going to have to wait for the next generation of cameras to have sonme useful features - ext. Mic socket (mini jack would be OK)), continuous autofocus, longer recording times - I would be more than happy to pay the tax difference (if this is the reason for 5 minute max recording time).

I hope to have the D90 within the next 7 - 10 days and I will publish a full review of it on photo-i.co.uk - no stone will be left unturned.

Having voiced my views on the D90, I still think it is a pioneering acheivement and another turning point for photography.

Very impressive indeed. Some details would be helpful.
- You were manual focusing the Voigtlander 58mm f1.4
Have you shot footage that you like with another lens set in autofocus?
- Does the D90 have image stabilization? Was that used?
- I wonder if a steadycam would have helped at all?


I've just posted my latest results from the D90 here D90 goes partying on Vimeo (http://www.vimeo.com/1728575). This time it is all handheld with Voigtlander 58mm f1.4 manual lens.

I am truly amazed by the low light performance, it puts any handycam I've got to shame. There would be just no way to get this using a HV30 or EX-1 and a DOF adapter, not to mention it is just so much more discreet.

However, I suspect we are going to have to wait for the next generation of cameras to have sonme useful features - ext. Mic socket (mini jack would be OK)), continuous .

Nikon already has a USB jack. Some firmware changes would allow for USB microphones, though I'd prefer a stereo XLR->USB interface.

Very impressive indeed. Some details would be helpful.
- You were manual focusing the Voigtlander 58mm f1.4
Have you shot footage that you like with another lens set in autofocus?
- Does the D90 have image stabilization? Was that used?
- I wonder if a steadycam would have helped at all?

The D90 doesn't have built-in image stabilization. There is some hope of VR lenses providing this function, but from the footage I've seen, VR stabilization seems jumpy.

From the footage and framegrabs I've seen so far I think the following is obviously the downsides of the camera as a camcorder:

1. No manual exposure control
2. Focusing is manual only and it forces you to rely on the live view with no effective focusing aids to focus. Luckily the video output is a low bit rate M-JEG at 720p. If it were recorded at any high enough data rate using superior codecs such as Mpeg-2 or H.264 at 1080i/p, miss-focusing will be more obvious and will happen very frequently with just slow moving subjects.
3. Nikon's VR in the lenses is optimized for still photography and it already showed its weaknesses in the clips posted on the dpreview.com site. Whether Nikon may or can later on tweak the firmware in either the lenses or the camera to correct this, I'm not sure.

There might be something else if you look for but the camera is a good hybrid considering the cost and it's limited potential applications.

Wacharapong

2. Focusing is manual only and it forces you to rely on the live view with no effective focusing aids to focus. Luckily the video output is a low bit rate M-JEG at 720p. If it were recorded at any high enough data rate using superior codecs such as Mpeg-2 or H.264 at 1080i/p, miss-focusing will be more obvious and will happen very frequently with just slow moving subjects.


This is similar to the camcorder world, so we can't expect much. I've had a very difficult time confirming focus on Sony Z1/EX1 HDV camcorders even with the zoom-in and peaking focusing aids. All of these cameras will need significantly larger screens, so the HDMI will have to drive an 11+" external HD display. Cumbersome, but necessary.

We all want shallow depth of field yet at the same time we want perfect auto focus.
I think its great because i get to strap on an old style lens and manually focus the way I learned all those years ago.
Its revolved back to being a skill again, for the moment.
Im off to the opticians.

what sequence settings are people using in FCP to edit the footage?

We all want shallow depth of field yet at the same time we want perfect auto focus.
I think its great because i get to strap on an old style lens and manually focus the way I learned all those years ago.
Its revolved back to being a skill again, for the moment.
Im off to the opticians.


You have a good point, but then we could take it one step further and go back to the darkroom. Technonolgy has moved on and we have come to expect a certain amount of automation. From my point of view I thgink I could live with the lack of autofocus, but I doubt if a sports or wildlife photographer would share the same opinion.

I am still waiting for my D90, hope to have it by the end of the week. Can anyone tell me how fast can you switch between normal focusing mode and Live View ready to shoot video, or better still can the custom Function be set up so it switches instantly?

Did your D90 turn up today Philip?

yes it arrived today. Done a little bit of shooting...god it's hard work! No replacement for a video camera but I will report back on how sharp the image is

I usually become sceptical when things sound too good to be true, rarely do they meet expectations. I am not that cynical, just seen too many claims from over enthusiastic users and manufacturers.

Would be interested to hear about your findings Philip - maybe I shouldn't put off buying the EX3 after all.

I usually become sceptical when things sound too good to be true, rarely do they meet expectations. I am not that cynical, just seen too many claims from over enthusiastic users and manufacturers.

Would be interested to hear about your findings Philip - maybe I shouldn't put off buying the EX3 after all.

It's no video camera replacement at all. The rolling shutter is atrocious and the limitations are many, but treat it right and you can get nice pics out it. Very compressed though.

Take a look here for a short overvew and a video of some shots I did.

Philip Bloom Blog Archive Nikon D90 (http://philipbloom.co.uk/2008/09/15/nikon-d90/)

Wow Phil. I see what you mean about the footage and compression. It was most noticeable on your bridge shot (the bottom of the archway is stair stepping). Any chance you've verified that the HDMI output is live output without overlay? Could the rolling shutter be bypassed by recording into an Intensity Pro / Flash recorder? Aside from the lack of manual control, are all these problems based on the D90's D-Video codec?

Thanks,
-C

I usually become sceptical when things sound too good to be true, rarely do they meet expectations. I am not that cynical, just seen too many claims from over enthusiastic users and manufacturers.

Would be interested to hear about your findings Philip - maybe I shouldn't put off buying the EX3 after all.

I'll be honest, I was literally about to order two D90s until I heard about the ISO, shutter speed issues. I didn't expect the mjpeg to be equivalent to my current HD100 output but after all the work we've done with big cameras with the Mini35 and Letus attached, the D90's promise was/is really attractive for any number of reasons.

But (and it is, of course, qualified but at this stage) the new Panasonic mini 4/3 DSLR format looks like it COULD be what I really hoped the D90 was when I first learned of it. The new G1 has, in theory, already solved the biggest short coming for me and the soon to be released version with HD movie and a dedicated 4/3 lens able to grab focus on the fly seems that it could resolve the others

Here are the three big disappointments with the D90 for me in order of importance:

No shooting through a VF.
No ability to compose and expose your exact shot and then start filming.
No ability to use SLR quality AF to regularly refocus HD shooting.

If it had everything else going for it, I'd live with composing and shooting with the 3" screen hand held. It's a wash with any tripod or jib shots...they're going to feed out to a monitor anyway.

But the idea, as both a photographer and film maker, to merge the best of both worlds meant looking through my viewfinder, getting my composition, exposure using Nikon's AF to lock my shot and then hitting record.

With an image stabilized lens, I could see shooting this camera photographer style easily. What a light, comfortable, unobtrusive way to film that would be. But it's a no-go with any future DSLR offerings because of the optical shutter. SAme thing with any AF use...the optical system makes it a no-go ever.

The shutter, ISO...even the mjpeg issues I would expect Nikon to address in firmware updates. Or to specifically retain for an updated D3 or dedicated bigger $ offering. But they will still never allow for VF shooting, AF refocus or any of the really tantalizing possibilities (like sophisticated subject tracking) that the new mini 4/3 all digital standard is introducing to photography and HD.

Panasonic just introduced the "mini" 4/3 system themselves that removes the prism and optical path of sll DSLRs. In addition to allowing for much slimmer bodies and smaller lenses, they developed a new EFV with and effective 1.4 million dot resolution that is supposed to rival the best optical VFs with the ability to do unheard of things in the eye piece in terms of control.

The new contrast detection system that they also had to develop for the all digital platform, allows for some amazing features. For one thing, because it's completely digital, the auto focus will work in movie mode (I've never used auto focus for any motion shooting but given the critical focus needed for HD, the ability to use DSLR quality AF to re-focus as needed would be killer.) It also has tantalizing possibilities with an assignable subject tracking, face recognition and a bunch of other things specific to the new contrast AF system.


And how about the ability to see DOF and shutter speed effects in your hi res VF before shooting - these features are also already in the new G1.

If panasonic is able to move all of these things to the new HD version of the G1 it could be the dream 1st generation cross over camera. But the direct EVF movie shooting and focus on the fly already promised for the HD version makes it a totally next level tool vs the D90.

So I'll probably get a D90 and get the Panasonic when it comes out supposedly 1st quarter.

I'm just watching your D90 piece. Not surprisingly it's the best focused, composed and exposed footage I've seen. Given the restrictions and newness, it still looks reasonably similar to some of the great work I've seen of yours.

How did you adapt to the Live View shooting and the new 3" screen...did you try anything hand held?

Did you get the body only or with the 18-105mm?

I'm getting one this week as a new DSLR anyway, but you've encouraged me as far as it's possibilities given it's limitations...does that make sense?.

Jim

I'm just watching your D90 piece. Not surprisingly it's the best focused, composed and exposed footage I've seen. Given the restrictions and newness, it still looks reasonably similar to some of the great work I've seen of yours.

How did you adapt to the Live View shooting and the new 3" screen...did you try anything hand held?

Did you get the body only or with the 18-105mm?

I'm getting one this week as a new DSLR anyway, but you've encouraged me as far as it's possibilities given it's limitations...does that make sense?.

Jim

As a new DSLR it's great as a replacement for a video camera it s not! Am sure I can get better now I know how to lock exposure and will take a better tripod with me next time!

I got the kit as the body only was out of stock.

handheld i didnt try, the screen was ok, i zoomed in a lot to check focus. Overall its just about usable for focus

Wow Phil. I see what you mean about the footage and compression. It was most noticeable on your bridge shot (the bottom of the archway is stair stepping). Any chance you've verified that the HDMI output is live output without overlay? Could the rolling shutter be bypassed by recording into an Intensity Pro / Flash recorder? Aside from the lack of manual control, are all these problems based on the D90's D-Video codec?

Thanks,
-C

Yep, its a very low bit rate. So this is probably the main culprit, there are a lot of video artifacts

Just as a thought. I don't see the D90 as a replacement to a video camcorder, it is however a useful camera to have for the odd drop in shot here and there, especially if you need to use wide angle lenses. Fortunately I didn't sell my collection of older style Nikkor lenses (18 lenses ranging from 20mm through to 500mm Reflex Nikkor). These will now all have a second life.

I can see the potential for the D90, although two years down the line I am sure we will have something more spectacular.

Regarding focusing via Live View, it wouldn't take the genius of a brain surgeon to work out how to attach an inexpensive X8 or X4 loupe to the rear LCD screen guard, something along similar lines to the flip down magnifier on the Sony EX3.

My only questions regarding the D90 now concern the HDMI output. I'm looking forward to somebody capturing it and determining:

* How's the picture look without compression? (Are the artifacts that we've seen due to subsampling the sensor, or due to M-JPEG encoding?)
* Can you configure the HDMI output to be 720p (vs. 1080i)? What's the default?
* Can you turn off the graphics overlay? (I believe not.)
* Does the overlay still allow for Cinemascope or similar aspect ratios?

Hopefully, somebody can do an HDMI capture and post some stills...

So this new Panasonic 4/3 camera is in fact going to use AVCHD and shoot progressively.
That's confirmed so far.

Any thoughts on AVCHD vs mjpeg?

Obviously we're talking two different cameras but codec to codec.

What I've read so far the pany g1 doesnt yet do video at all - I believe they said something like "next generation" it's coming. I could be wrong but that's what I recall. After Photokina the smoke will clear alittle./k

Yep, its a very low bit rate. So this is probably the main culprit, there are a lot of video artifacts

It would be very useful to inspect a short MJPEG file straight from the camera.

Here is another D90 movie:
http://vimeo.com/1709082

Would you folks kindly point out rolling shutter artifacts? I see some at 0:44 on the "Union Station via Street Corridor" blinking sign. Most of the wobble is during the handheld footage. I'm guessing that the jerkiness is made worse by VR in the lens.

Hmm.
This may be just the what Nikon needs to get into the video cam market.

If they took their basis of this implementation and worked on it as a platform for their next post D90 model, it could be quite amazing. Also, I imagine a software upgrade could offer better video quality. Also, most important, enable at least full 4:2:2 1920x1080 via HDMI without icon overlays.

The feedback from this forum alone could provide enough infomation for their engineers.

It's appararent that Nikon wanted to take their video mode one step further with the D90. It's to bad that it may only tease us, especially with having the awesome capability of tight DOF, but no way of capturing this image in high quality video!

I can see this concept easily turning upcoming cameras into hybrid Digital SLR / Pro video camera. Bring'em on!

My only questions regarding the D90 now concern the HDMI output. I'm looking forward to somebody capturing it and determining:

* How's the picture look without compression? (Are the artifacts that we've seen due to subsampling the sensor, or due to M-JPEG encoding?)
* Can you configure the HDMI output to be 720p (vs. 1080i)? What's the default?
* Can you turn off the graphics overlay? (I believe not.)
* Does the overlay still allow for Cinemascope or similar aspect ratios?

Hopefully, somebody can do an HDMI capture and post some stills...

I'm convinced everyone who has this camera and a intensity pro (loads of people) all had a little meeting and decided that when people ask about the HDMI output quality, they agreed just to ignore them. Adding to the frustration, some people started roomers of burned overlays and subpar HDMI quality. I feel like Jack's screaming "YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!"
-C

What I've read so far the pany g1 doesnt yet do video at all - I believe they said something like "next generation" it's coming. I could be wrong but that's what I recall. After Photokina the smoke will clear alittle./k

No, there's a lot more substance to it than that. Basically all the info In my long post is from their site which has a section on the upcoming HD version of the G1 with video clips, and their Japanese site with promo material from a Japanese photo show. I have pictures from show of the HD camera and the 14 -140mm HD lens. There's very specific info out including my quote that it will shoot progressive and auto focus on the fly (from the US site) and that the codec is AVCHD - the logo is right on the back of the LCD. I can also tell you that it has a stereo mic as that is mounted right on top of the camera in another picture from Panasonic Japan.

what about for final output to sd-dvd.
How would the footage 'fit in' with say a few sd shots from an xha1 or ex1 used in SD mode?
Aside from the mentioned complaints like rolling shutter and general lack of control,
are the arefacts so noticeable that even SD looks bad?
If anyone has tried this - downconverting/downscaling (preferably with a high quality method such as Aftereffects) , mixing/cutting together with other sd footage & burning to DVD could you please give opinions of the results.
Thanks.

I would recommend checking out a few of the many clips available. You should be able to formulate your own opinion on what works for you based on what you see in this regard. I have read that vimeo clips can be D/L at full rez, but I can't figure out how, but there should be many shared native D90 clips that you can import into your own projects to check for SD output. If you do please share your opinion.

Hey Ken,

Just sign up, which only required me to fill in my email and a password.
Then when you return to the screen the option to download hi-res appears on the right of the page.

I have been using the D90 for a couple of days now - just getting the feel of the camera. My first gut reaction, based on what I have shot, is that the movie feature is 18 - 24 months too early. Shooting on a bright sunny day here in london (yes, we have finally had some sunshine) it was near impossible to see the LCD viewfinder. I did have a nice reflection of my face though.

The footage is slightly jerky, probably due to shooting at 24p and as noted by others, the exposure has to be locked before shooting, otherwise you have an annoying fluctuation in exposure during the shot. I will post a full review of this camera at some stage this week, will be shooting some more today - just to make sure I am not doing anything wrong.

I was looking forward to playing with the D90 but now it seems I wont bother. Its a shame but Im sure its only the start of things to come. I mean clearly this overnight revolution has caught the very revolution leaders (aka RED) off guard with their announcement that Scarlet has been scrapped in its current form and is going under the knife for complete re-invention.

Its very interesting times for indies!

Vincent - will that be happening at your site?

Yes it will be on my site, but I will post a link here as soon as we are ready. At the moment I am producing a DVD user guide for the D90 and am working 25 hours each day

ohh - I wondered what the advantage was to living on the other side of the Atlantic - you guys get an extra hour - now it's all making sense - I'll look forward to seeing your review- thanks/k

you guys get an extra hourAnd their day starts earlier as well.

Ok, I'm still confused. Im not a technical guy so please excuse my ignorance but can someone clear a few things up for me.

On my consumer 3ccd panny camcorder, I can set the following in manual mode:

White balance
Exposure (ie F stop)
Gain (add or remove gain)

Now as far as I understand, the d90 in video mode only allows manaul focus. Thats fine, but can you set the WB?

Am I right in saying that you CAN choose an apature value (F number) and lock it in place whilst shooting video? ie the cam will keep that chosen F value regardless of light level?

(If so, I understand that this would be unusable if I wanted to pan from say a room where I had set exposure and locked it, to a bright lit doorway, BUT if I wanted to light a controlled situation, I could lock for that scene which would be fine).

Does the D90 add gain? If so, can this be locked in place also?

Sorry for the dumb questions...

James

I have been using the D90 for a couple of days now - just getting the feel of the camera. My first gut reaction, based on what I have shot, is that the movie feature is 18 - 24 months too early. Shooting on a bright sunny day here in london (yes, we have finally had some sunshine) it was near impossible to see the LCD viewfinder.


Is this much different from shooting with a camcorder's LCD? Camcorders are a little better in that their LCDs do fold out and rotate.

I want the answer too so I will repeat the same question

Is the HDMI output clean with no overlays?

Does it output live at all? output while recording?

Is this much different from shooting with a camcorder's LCD? Camcorders are a little better in that their LCDs do fold out and rotate.

At least you can look through a camcorders viewfinder on a bright day. The Nikon viewfinder blacks out and you only have the LCD screen. I found it near impossible to see the LCD screen whilst shooting on a sunny day.

Vincent - sound like , if one is going to shoot video with the d90 , they need a hoodman , or similar device /k

A camcorder might be the better option - for now.

At least you can look through a camcorders viewfinder on a bright day. The Nikon viewfinder blacks out and you only have the LCD screen. I found it near impossible to see the LCD screen whilst shooting on a sunny day.

Very true. Critical focusing will also be a problem in most cases, and the Gen1 versions of these cameras have little to help. There are some new ~$500 HD monitors with HDMI inputs. manhattanlcd.com (shipping because I just received mine) and smallhd.com (not shipping yet.) They don't have zooming in the monitor, but perhaps the DSLRs will pick up in this area.

With all the limitations in its HD video, can I say that it would be better for me to wait for an improved version of the D90 or even consider Canon 5D if I really want to do some good HD from a D-SLR?

Yes, I think the second generation of HDSLR's will iron out many of the limitations of the current cameras.

I hope after Christmas there will be a quick drop in the price of all video capable D-SLRs and also the emergence of more brands and models of such similar products.