...removing the overlays is a matter of a simple firmware fix from Nikon.

...Again, a firmware fix from Nikon.

While a firmware fix is possible, there's no guarantee.

Is it confirmed that you can get 2:35:1 on the HDMI output by cropping the overlay?

From the pics on the dpreview site, you can crop it in post to remove the logos..
While a firmware fix is possible, there's no guarantee.

Is it confirmed that you can get 2:35:1 on the HDMI output by cropping the overlay?

Is it confirmed that you can get 2:35:1 on the HDMI output by cropping the overlay?

No it is not confirmed because we have no HDMi-out footage. But logically anyone who looks at a D90 frame with its icons can see you can crop it. The downfall is it is an origional 1280x720 frame, that is cropped down. It becomes something like a 1280x600'ish frame. That is very close to 2:35 in ratio, but it isn't a real fix any more then cropping HDV footage and calling it CinemaScope would be! Ultimately it is still throwing away resolution!
Nikon please get your head out and fix this situation asap. It may cost you sales in the long run if you don't. That is unless you are having a second edition, "hot on the heels"-"prosumer" model ariving soon. At twice the price eh!

I just read this entire thread from start to finish. Whew.

The footage people have posted looks interesting. Knowing that the iris can be locked is huge. However, all the footage I've seen leads me to fear that a huge aspect of video cannot be controlled on this camera. Shutter speed.

24p is really cool, but if you're shutter isn't open for 1/24 second for every frame, you simply cannot achieve a film look. It looks like my digital camera's video just with higher resolution. Yucky video that has that sharp frame to frame jumping where motion is lost. Sometimes you want that, but usually not for me. In saying that, I recognize I think that this is more of a DSLR long before it is a video camera and not vice-versa, so it may be that you get what you get. They didn't design it for video enthusiasts but instead for photo enthusiasts that want to shoot some video too... (duh)

The depth of field is amazing on the samples at D90 | D-MOVIE (http://imaging.nikon.com/products/imaging/lineup/d90/en/d-movie/), however they're all down-scaled and there isn't a lot of motion in some of the more beautiful shots. So it is hard to tell where shutter is at. The slower shots without fast motion look gorgeous. I want those types of original files. Sounds like people will be posting those types of things in the coming weeks.

Also, the mention of "jaggies" - if its what I think people are talking about? The horizontal lines where the image obviously breaks, almost as if a line or two of pixels were removed. Is that seriously a part of video this camera captures. That is a deal killer in my mind. That footage becomes useless if it creates horizontal lines of whatever in the image.

Anyways, yeah, shutter speed. Can we control the shutter speed to be 1/24 for fully fluid motion in the 720p24 mode?

Nikon... fix this situation asap. It may cost you sales in the long run if you don't.Don't worry -- Nikon isn't going to lose any sales. There is no direct competition for the D90. Nikon is going to sell *every single one* that they make. And... there's no such thing as a "long run" in the market for this particular level of D-SLR.

Ryan, I think you meant to say 1/48th sec shutter speed. Film is often exposed at this shutter speed (180 degree shutter angle, actually) for 24 fps, not 1/24th. (1/24th would blur too much).

360degress x 24fps = 8640 / 180degree shutter angle = 48 or 1/48th sec.

This D90 is truly exciting nonetheless and could be an interesting tool! I look forward to seeing some more real-world tests.

Don't worry -- Nikon isn't going to lose any sales. There is no direct competition for the D90. Nikon is going to sell *every single one* that they make. And... there's no such thing as a "long run" in the market for this particular level of D-SLR.

Well I'm glad they are going to sell every cam they make. To me it sounds like there are quite a few people such as myself, who are on the fence, because of fixable issues such as HDMi overlay.

Can we control the shutter speed to be 1/24 for fully fluid motion in the 720p24 mode?

I don't think the shutter will be a problem. If you want a more conventional motion signature, you'll just need to use ND filtration or a pola-fader. It's not the ideal solution for most users, because if you want to shoot video and stills, you have to choose which one gets the ideal exposure conditions.

I think that you have to bear in mind that, at this point, Nikon's video capture is a response to customer demand to be able to record the live-view picture, rather than designed from the ground up as a video acquisition system. Personally, I'm hopeful that Nikon will continue to refine the hybrid camera idea, simply because I have a lot of money invested in Nikon lenses.

Yeah, I admittedly don't understand all the technical aspects of video acquisition, but in the filming I've done on the HVX200 I've always leaned towards keeping the shutter open for the longest possible time. It reads 1/24 on my settings on the HVX, and upon reviewing the footage frame to frame, anything moving always touches frame to frame, there are no gaps. It simply looks more realistic to me and less like video with lots of motion where the motion blur is only half captured.

A faster shutter speed is desirable at times as well to not overdue the blur, but I'd simply love to have that option. Again though, I have to bang my head against the wall and tell myself this is a DSLR and not a video camera.

Its just that I see the quality you get from shooting through lenses without having to use a converter box and I want that look. Seems like most of the pieces are in place for an incredible tool, just not shutter speed control.

Anyone know if you can control the shutter speed on the video mode on the D90?

My friend at work, who told me about the D90, actually bought one over the weekend and so I'll have a chance to try some things out on his.

He thinks that the shutter speed is dictated by the light amount. So he hopes to expose a certain amount of light to achieve a particular shutter speed and then to lock the exposure and begin filming to maintain that speed.

He bought it primarily as a video camera. Funny. I wonder what percentage of the D90's sales will be from video enthusiasts. I think that they see a $1300 camera that shoots 720p24 with the ability to interchange lenses and there just isn't anything that competes in that price range...

Not quite there, but encourages me about fun things to come.

I know some of you are already wondering what comes after the D90.
I just found out.
http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/companies/nikon/nikkoresources/zoomsMF/12001700groupview.jpg

Here you guys go:

Understanding and Optimizing the Nikon D90 D-Movie Mode Image (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=146661)

My experiences summed up since last Friday when I got the d90.

and here: Nikon D90 footage on Vimeo (http://www.vimeo.com/d90)

For footage

Feel free to ask questions.

I know some of you are already wondering what comes after the D90.
I just found out.
http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/companies/nikon/nikkoresources/zoomsMF/12001700groupview.jpg

Isn't that the loading option of an F-16 Falcon? Which two would one need over enemy territory? That giant white one is very impressive. What's that for, long range drop tank or moon shots?

Wow, great work. Thanks for the effort.

Excellent movie clips. Your work reassures me that this movie mode will deliver stunning footage with even the cheapest lens.

What was the specific size and length of the movies? We're still curious about data rates, although MJPEG will vary some according to the material. DV at 25 MBps was the standard for years, but I'm curious how well lower data rates fare on HD material.

Wow! There is a new clip on Vimeo that's pretty impressive for the D90. Someone shot side-by-side footage with the D90 and a HVX200.
I was blown away. Take a look for yourselves:

D90 and HVX side-by-side test on Vimeo (http://www.vimeo.com/1713382)

I'm sold. (though the rolling shutter is still an issue)

i went to ritz camera / wolf camera today to test out the d90. i only got to use it for 20 minutes or so but i shot some video to my sd card. i thought it might be useful to trade up from my d50 to a d90 and use the d90 when shooting things that call for larger format.

overall i wasnt as impressed as i had hoped. yes it takes videos from nearly the full frame but there are probably too many dealbreakers to really make it worthwhile for anything besides a novelty. the compression is bad, the latitude is bad, control is bad, rolling shutter is bad. heres how bad:

-compression is very noticeable with quantization blocks visible and plenty of mosquito noise, but what would you expect from <16mbps MJPEG.

-latitude looks nothing like shooting stills. blacks are noisy with plenty of color noise (at least what i shot in the store i was in) and white clips pretty quickly and dont look particularly pleasing... perhaps this can be adjusted in the settings? most of the image settings i tried didnt seem to affect the live view/video image but i didnt have time to go too deep.

-control is about as bad as it can be, which is to say its like shooting videos on most stilll cameras that arent made for video. with the kit lens shutter and aperture settings do not seem to affect video recordings, and auto exposure is always on unless you are holding down the autoexposure lock button. through a combination of buttons you can lighten or darken your video but its very non-technical and not labeled well, although setting the autoexposure compensation level does work in 1/3 stops or whatever. no options for video, just sound/no sound and video resolution. it wasnt clear to me how the autoexposure was arriving at the exposure since my shutter and aperture and iso settings didnt seem to do much, but when i was shooting the shutter looked to be basically off aka 1/24th sec. looked like some of the vimeo posts of the d90 though seemed to have faster shutter speeds so i guess that is not always the case.

-rolling shutter under the conditions i was using the camera were what i would judge to be as bad as they could possibly be. looks like the sensor readout is equal to the framerate which is not that unusual for sensors that are just made for seeing (machine vision, webcam, security cam) as opposed to creating images, anyway doesnt look like nikon went to any trouble to reduce artifacting due to rolling shutter, they just let it be. if youve ever used live mode on a dslr, this video mode is just that only recording the live view to compressed video on your memory card.

truthfully the stuff i shot looks worse than some of the stuff ive seen online, but not by much and that might because vimeo etc obscure the image quality issues of the video. took me a few minutes to figure out how to lock exposure. its a bit of a pain since none of the shooting parameters seem to affect the video, so you cant really control shutter speed although i imagine using the right manual lens you can force the aperture.

i was hoping to be pleasantly surprised with this video feature, but unfortunately i was a bit disappointed. oh well. if you can show me im wrong please do since id love to be excited about this thing but after this im really not. i might still use it over a 35mm lens adapter though, but that doesnt say much since im not that into those either after some experience with them. at least the d90 produces somewhat pleasing bokeh and has good edge to edge focus, although i wouldnt consider either appropriate for any kind of HD delivery from what ive seen.

im not totally caught up on this whole thread so sorry if i repeated anything old but just thought id share my experience.

Wow! There is a new clip on Vimeo that's pretty impressive for the D90. Someone shot side-by-side footage with the D90 and a HVX200.
I was blown away. Take a look for yourselves:

D90 and HVX side-by-side test on Vimeo (http://www.vimeo.com/1713382)

I'm sold. (though the rolling shutter is still an issue)

Thanks for that link. Great side-by-side comparison. The rolling shutter is present on every CMOS camcorder as well, and just how much worse, if any, remains to be seen.

All Nikon has to do is allow for plug-in USB audio devices. I'd like to see an XLR interface.

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/companies/nikon/nikkoresources/zoomsMF/12001700groupview.jpg

Isn't that the loading option of an F-16 Falcon? Which two would one need over enemy territory? That giant white one is very impressive. What's that for, long range drop tank or moon shots?

I think its for the solar system beyond ours.

Seriously though, I think Nikon must realise improvement is neccessary, why else would they introduce this concept in the 1000 euro body.
It makes financial sense that they are going to strive to get D-Movie up to the neccessary standard for us to be able to see the difference between a $4000 lens and a $300 lens in the results.
They are not there yet and when they get there it will be in the top of the range body, for sure.

Nikon D90 Hands-on Preview: 2. Specifications: Digital Photography Review (http://www.dpreview.com/previews/nikond90/page2.asp)

Im holding my breath with anticipation at the potential. Aparently it has a 5 minute max shoot cut off but thats still very good.

Sure there will be a million other gotcha's, especially with the motion jpeg codec they have choosen to go with (cough..stone age...cough).

But definately a great sign of things to come.

Hey - that 5 minute max shoot cut-off isn't that different from an 8 minute max shoot cut-off with 16mm film...

Original Japanese:
�yŽÀŽÊ‘¬•ñ�zƒjƒRƒ“�uD90�v (http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/cda/review/2008/09/11/9189.html)

English Translated:
<Photograph taken on the spot bulletin>Nikon D90 (http://66.196.80.202/babelfish/translate_url_content?.intl=us&lp=ja_en&trurl=http%3A%2F%2Fdc.watch.impress.co.jp%2Fcda%2Freview%2F2008%2F09%2F11%2F9189.html)

I was expecting them to show more video samples but at least we’re getting new samples being posted daily on Vimeo.

How are managing to get your D90 in two days time? The next batch is not due in until early next week. Hopefully I will also have one then.

i thought they werent out in uk till 22nd?

ordered mine from B and H in NY

I assumed you were getting yours direct from Nikon. You are right the UK stock is not due in until the 22-23

I found this on youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dV3LbWSdESs&fmt=18

the guy who uupload it tell me its a 200mmf2 ($4000us)
did not tell me if its with stabilisator.

Sony Vegas pro 8c added support for the D90 in its new update.

Sony Creative Software Inc. - Vegas Release Notes (http://sony-529.vo.llnwd.net/dspcdn/releasenotes/vegaspro80c_readme_enu.htm)

Philip..
you bought yours from b+ h in NYC...How much import duty will you have to pay? Is there a difference between uk and usa models?

Many thanks
Craig

Philip..
you bought yours from b+ h in NYC...How much import duty will you have to pay? Is there a difference between uk and usa models?

Many thanks
Craig

it was the kit D90 for $1375 with 3 day UPS shipping + £148 duty and tax> making it around £848 almost exactly the price of the UK one. Just got it because I wanted to take it on a really cool gig around Alberta, Canada for two weeks that I start early next week.

The spec would be the same. No idea about warranties...

I picked up a D90 yesterday and should be able to post some samples with different lenses soon. Initial impressions are good, getting super wides and shallow depth without a Brevis is great! but the rolling shutter seems to be a real issue.

If anyone has figured out what exposure forces the camera to a shutter speed in the 1/25th to 1/60th range then please share. In fact, does anybody know how to even tell what shutter speed the camera has selected in video mode? as it seems to bear no relation to the shutter speed that was previously set in Live View.

Anyway, I'm off to play around with it for now, back later.

Just played around for an hour with the D90, 500mm , 16mm and 85mm lenses. It is lots of fun, just being able to stick any lens you own straight onto the camera is fantastic. The results are here D90 long and wide test shots on Vimeo (http://www.vimeo.com/1721300) No post processing applied.

Image quality wise it's certainly not a quality match for a Sony EX-1 by any means, MJPEG just doesn't have the detail. However for web video usage it looks very promising. I think I'd still use the Brevis on an EX-1 for most serious stuff for now, lets see what Canon has to offer next week. I hope Nikon follows up with a better camera and codec soon (How about XDCAM EX ? JVC just did it!). What is clear is that this is just the start of the large chip/small camera video revolution and the video world has just changed forever.

More later.

Dan

Nice footage, Dan. It's instructive to see those other focal lengths on the D90.

Image quality wise it's certainly not a quality match for a Sony EX-1 by any means, MJPEG just doesn't have the detail.

My interest in the D90 is mainly money-logic:

$ 9000 (Sony EX1 + Brevis35 w/Flip Module) - $999 (D90 body) = $8,001.00, give or take.

That eight grand'll buy a passel of ways to otherwise improve my movies, and maybe some lunches for the crew!

sony t500k
This camera has a limit as well and it’s 10 minutes.

Just in case anyone still doubts the D90's capabilities take a look here
D90 Japanese sample on Vimeo (http://www.vimeo.com/1721667)

My interest in the D90 is mainly money-logic:
$ 9000 (Sony EX1 + Brevis35 w/Flip Module) - $999 (D90 body) = $8,001.00, give or take.


You still need a good lens and audio system. I wouldn't consider a 16 (?) MBps motion JPG to be the equivalent of a premier 35 MBps MPEG2 system. Even HDV falls apart with motion, so the D90 is probably a good start for video that is underdetailed and nearly still.

You still need a good lens and audio system. I wouldn't consider a 16 (?) MBps motion JPG to be the equivalent of a premier 35 MBps MPEG2 system. Even HDV falls apart with motion, so the D90 is probably a good start for video that is underdetailed and nearly still.

You're right about external components, Gints; I was comparing camera bodies. The Sony Dan mentioned would need lenses on its DoF converter, too. And that teensy 1/2" sensor …!

Thus the simplicity—the utility—of a camera like the D90: a complement of Nikon lenses to feed that big CMOS with clean light; an exterior audio device; a good mic and I've got a competent double-system setup that's smaller, cheaper by far and as malleable as the EX-1 example.

Judging an image on MBps alone is like using a ruler to decide a painting is ugly. What can I do with any camera, in the service of drama, than the D90 can't? Not a thing. And it has that lovely facility with lenses and light. For less than a grand.

Not sure what you mean by "falls apart"—more metrics? My question is: does it look like life? If I hold a mirror up to nature—if I move my audience—will they care about MTF or rasterization? I think subjectives like "underdetailed" have limited relevance, & "nearly still" confuses me. (That's up to the artist, not the tool.)

Judging from the clips I've seen, a properly stabilized D90 will be a wonderful electronic eye—the kind of thing Welles dreamed of, 70 years ago …

Judging an image on MBps alone is like using a ruler to decide a painting is ugly. What can I do with any camera, in the service of drama, than the D90 can't? Not a thing. And it has that lovely facility with lenses and light. For less than a grand.

Not sure what you mean by "falls apart"—more metrics? My question is: does it look like life? If I hold a mirror up to nature—if I move my audience—will they care about MTF or rasterization?


I appreciate and agree with your artistic points. However, the same could be said of the value of a larger sensor and better lenses: what artistic merit do these have over what a $350 SD miniDV camcorder could supply last year? What's wrong with more noise or more DOF?

This is a technical forum, and while a YouTube-compressed video may have better content than a RAW MPEG4 file from a Sony EX1, I'd like to provide counter arguments as to why the Nikon D90 doesn't blow away every video device simply because it can accept Nikon lenses. MBps limits the difference from scene to scene, and while it's not obvious how that is perceived, I can say that it's very easy to be distracted by blockiness on 10 MBps cable TV once you have been shown what it is. Pans across the audiences in the Beijing Olympics were embarrassingly blocky, as was the fireworks show. Such obvious artifacts pull me out of the show and have my non-technical friends asking me what up with my fancy new 1080P LCD TV.

Absolutely right that content is 99% but since that's a taken then what's cool is this is just the first in a long line of new devices that people will have to capture content with . On the 17th canon will announce the 5d upgrade that is strongly rumored to have 1080 , and this is a ff camera , not aps . And the Panasonic G1 . While the announcement and specs now show no video , pany has stated it's coming . The point - the game of artistic video capture has changed forever for the best . Not to mention what Red is up to . As I said in another post - the adapterboys had best be looking for other types of equipment to manufacture . I'd recommend a few styles of followfocus systems and matteboxes exclusively for dslr type cameras. And traditional video cameras will benefit . We'll probably be seeing larger sensors in smaller and less expensive cameras sooner than anyone thought possible . We'll know on the 17th.
As a photographer and video artist , to have one device . Well to tell you the truth , it's what I've already been doing - carrying my fuji f31 and shooting still and moving images as needed . I would have preferred to be shooting with a more responsive still camera like my 20d and shooting 1080 video like my z1 but I've been willing for the sake of convenience , to shoot a point and shoot and 640x480 . My next camera for certain will be a vdslr or one of the new v4/3 cameras that will follow shortly. ain't it sooo coool/k

Wow- the Japanese page's video is great- I can't wait for one of these DSLR's to get to 1080P60!!!

[T]he Nikon D90 doesn't blow away every video device simply because it can accept Nikon lenses.

That's right. When filmmaking is reduced to a competition between tools, I admit to an irrational fondness for SLR-style ergonomics. It's how I learned to make images.

This is a technical forum … compressed video may have better content [but] MBps limits the difference from scene to scene, and while it's not obvious how that is perceived, I can say that it's very easy to be distracted … obvious artifacts pull me out of the show …

One reason I like DVInfo is that so much of the talk ranges beyond the merely technical. So you're right: for mechanically minded viewers, some movies will always be inadequate. I'm less interested in precision than verisimilitude; a subtle difference. My challenge is to use my art to give my audience a convincing experience of fiction, without (as I think we agree) the distracting claptrap of machinery. "Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing which ones to keep." (Scott Adams; just read that yesterday)

So, to keep to the straight & narrow: It's the SLR-sized sensor I'm most excited about in the D90. Downsampling or no, its light-sensitivity, color rendition and depth-of-field are powerful new tools for me, at a bargain price.

I just hope the posited Canon 5d Mk II goes Nikon one better in manual controls for video!

One reason I like DVInfo is that so much of the talk ranges beyond the merely technical.Thanks -- another reason you should like it is our constant effort to keep discussion threads on topic. I've just moved a couple of off-topic posts out of here. This is the Nikon D90 discussion. We already have an Ikonoskop discussion, located at http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/digital-cinema-general-discussion/129759-ikonoskop-cam-dii-ibc2008.html -- the last two posts here have been moved to that thread.

5 minute limit or not, this is fantastic news.

Can someone answer three questions though :

1) Is HDMI a format which only allows transmission of data inside a 60i stream (much like HD-SDI which is always a 60i stream from a camera such as XL-H1)?
This is important because the D90 would have to be de-interlaced to remove the pulldown if you wanted to avoid the motion JPEG codec.

2) Is this camera full frame since it is 12.3MP? What is the MegaPixel count have to be for full frame to be an option? Does it zoom into the SLR lens even when in movie mode? If I place a 50mm Zeiss Planar, will it really become a 60mm because of a zoom factor?

3) The Japanese night footage looks most impressive (to me). Can someone breakdown why this chip can detect low light better than a 3 CCD camera? I thought the more CCD's you have in a camcorder, the better low light response you'd get. The Airport footage is a stunning example of an extremely sensitive low light chip, but isn't this just one single image sensor? How could this possibly better than the three in a HVX-200 or an EX1?

Thanks for your thoughts,
-C

Can someone breakdown why this chip can detect low light better than a 3 CCD camera? The difference is the sensor size. A bigger sensor means more photons fall on each pixel during a given period of time, all else being equal.

The D90 sensor is roughly 24mm x 16mm - about the same size as in the Red One.

Is HDMI a format..?HDMI is not a format. It is an interface.

2) Is this camera full frame since it is 12.3MP? No it is NOT full frame.

What is the MegaPixel count have to be for full frame to be an option? Pixel count has nothing to do with it. It's the physical *size* of the sensor, not the number of pixels, that determines whether it's full frame or not.

I've just posted my latest results from the D90 here D90 goes partying on Vimeo (http://www.vimeo.com/1728575). This time it is all handheld with Voigtlander 58mm f1.4 manual lens.

I am truly amazed by the low light performance, it puts any handycam I've got to shame. There would be just no way to get this using a HV30 or EX-1 and a DOF adapter, not to mention it is just so much more discreet.

The low light material looks impressive (exposure). From most of the clips I have been seeing, including yours Dan, there seems to be a lack of critical focus, this could be due to the fact it has been compressed for Vimeo - YouTube etc. Can you confirm whether the focus is spot on or is the footage soft. I know we are supposed to be looking at a shallow DOF, but I would expect at least one element to be sharp.

Focus is not always spot on, however its not bad. There is obviously a quality loss with Vimeo as with any other online video, btw are you watching vimeo with scaling on? it tends to make it look even mushier.

So you get an idea of the actual quality I've attached some still frames.

Dan

Another one

and one more, remember this is not shot in scientific conditions, it is a real world test.

Thanks for posting those images Dan. Unfortunately they do confirm my view that then images are not as sharp as could be. Do you focus via the viefinder or is it via the LIve View preview. I also believe that autofocus does not function with the video mode, can you confirm this, or correct me.


I am still waiting for my D90 to arrive so I will do some extensive tests with it.

Thanls

Focussing is done on the live view screen when handheld, you can only use the viewfinder for focus static shots on a tripod where you can prefocus (AF or manual) then enter Liveview. On static shots you can also magnify the live view to check focus before you start to shoot, but this function is disabled when you start shooting.

Don't forget that in low light a lot of what you might think is mis-focus is also movement, noise reduction and compression at work, that said it would be nice if they added some enhancements like peaking or focus assist to help as the 3 inch screen is not all that easy to get critical focus with on moving subjects.