When is it to be released in the US?

I have posted a link to Nikon's press launch brief, and they confirm what has been said regarding Tax. Sorry about the poor quality of audio, but the recorder was not placed in an ideal spot and the sound is only intended for my reference.

Best wishes, and I shall close my postings on this.

Chris I believe Vincent does have his own site , and a pretty decent photo related review site at that.

Digital Photography at photo-i (http://www.photo-i.co.uk/)

Vincent , correct me if I'm incorrectly identifying you , please.

In a world that has no truths , misinformation is all that exists . Maybe there's room to wait and see . This is the predicament that Nikon has thrust upon potential users of the d90 video mode. Remember this is their first time to out a video camera . They've go lots of experience outing still images devices but it's been since the r10 days of super 8 since they had to technically describe a moving image device , and it was alot more simple. And sometimes even within the same organization , truthful information can be slow forthcoming.

www.kurthbousman.com

I appreciate the audio clip, Vincent, and the quality certainly doesn't impede the content. Of course I wasn't there, but just from listening to the clip and having attended plenty of similar press events myself, I find the context of the Nikon spokesman's reference to "tax" at 00:37 to 00:39 or so to be firmly tongue-in-cheek and not at all a serious answer. And I don't think anyone there took him seriously, either, judging from the laughter in the room when he said that. In my experience with press events, such tongue-in-cheek response from marketing folk tend to occur spontaneously as a method of evading a question. Perhaps he didn't know outright the technical reason for the clip length limit, or perhaps he knew but didn't want to say.

At any rate, as has been pointed out numerous times: there are dozens upon dozens of still cameras that shoot video well beyond five minutes. As previously mentioned, the D90 itself also has a 20-minute video mode. Show me documentation regarding this so-called "camcorder tax" status, and show me documentation that delineates the "quality" of a still camera's video mode as having an effect on tax. Keep in mind that there are several consumer HD camcorders currently selling at or below the D90's price point.

I couldn't make out most of the audio, but I thought I heard the Mktg Director say, toward the end, that the D90 can shoot for 5 minutes, then turn around and shoot for another 5 mins. Did I mishear …? Trying to divine whether or not there's any need to wait between takes, or if the cam's good to go immediately.

The best explanation for the clip length limit I've heard yet is a file size limitation. That would lead me to believe that you could turn around and record another clip almost immediately. I guess we'll all find out soon enough...

I think you're right. I have to channel my impatience into some work.

yeh , file size would be a far more logical reason. The sensor overheating theme seems to be contradicted by the immediate ability to begin filming after the 5 min limit . For me it's a nonissue anyway as I would probably need to overglock it about 1% of the time. Far more important themes exist raised by the exposure fluctuations ,imho.k

Agreed, Kurth—though downtime between takes is a negative, D90s are cheap enough to shoot with multiple bodies.

What's overglocking? Is it as dangerous as it sounds (can a speedloader talk to HDMI?), or do you mean "overclocking"?

If the latter, what would you overclock? The D90's CMOS sensor?

If so, how & why?

and then give us "cardcapacity" recording lengths , and everyone in the world who would buy a d90 would be tickled pink with the deal. my$1worth.k

Today's computers find such file sizes unwieldy. I'd prefer the camera to break up clips into smaller sizes, preferably a user programmable size. 1GB is still quite large. I think that Nikon is just getting started in this area, but let's ask for usable features.

The MJPEG format is not universally playable (at least in my experience with Canon P&S cameras), so I'm hoping that they provide some video compression tools in their bundled software.

Chris I believe Vincent does have his own site , and a pretty decent photo related review site at that.

Digital Photography at photo-i (http://www.photo-i.co.uk/)

Vincent , correct me if I'm incorrectly identifying you , please.

www.kurthbousman.com

You are correct Kurth, photo-i is my web site. Thank you for your kind comments.

I also appreciate the effort that Chris puts in with this excellent site, it has provided me with stacks of information over the years that has enabled me to produce my own DVDs and indeed produce web videos for many companies.

John - I'm world-famous in my own mind for inventing vocabulary - I just meant the need to shoot more than a 5 min take . I think we should all be patient for a month and see what happens . Nikon also is a firm believer in firmware upgrades so anything that exists now ,could in short time change.
Vincent - I like your site so it's easy to say nice things ...but about that Plustek review bro' ? Just kiddin'!k

John - I'm world-famous in my own mind for inventing vocabulary

I'm disappointed. I pictured you on a shoot with two D90s in holsters—& a bandolier of SD cards …

Looking at the manual for the D700, it says Live View mode can be used for up to an hour, but it may overheat and cause weird colors and will automatically shut off if temperatures get too high. You can find it on page 100 on the nikon website.

So it seems that overheating does probably play some role in the arbritrary 5 minute limit. The D90 is smaller camera body, may not be disipate the heat as well.

Since this tax business doesn't seem to be going away, Here (http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageLibrary_ShowContent&propertyType=document&columns=1&id=HMCE_PROD1_028338#P32_4468)'s a reference to the relevant Combined Nomenclature Explanatory Note:

The CNEN states that products are classified as still image digital cameras 'unless they are capable, using the maximum storage capacity, of recording in a quality of 800 x 600 pixels (or higher) at 23 frames per second (or higher) at least 30 minutes in a single sequence of video'. Cameras that meet each of these criteria will be classified as video camera recorders.

Since 5 minutes at 13.56 Mbps is 508.5 MB, I'd guess it's a file size thing. The data rate may even have been decided on based on storing five minutes in half a gigabyte...

Thanks for this info Steve, I was going to publish this link also but thouight it might be more diplomatic not to do so - I didn't want to rub Chris up the wrong way. I have spoken with Nikon and they confirmed it is a tax thing, although as someone else has pointed out, many users might not mind paying the extra for longer recording times. However, once we get the camera in I will be able to let you know if the video function is going to be useful or not.

BTW. I was aware that Canon were also developing something along similar lines at least two years ago, but so far I haven't seen anything - who knows maybe the 6D may offer a few surprises?

http://www.canon.com/moon/en/index.html

...Here (http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageLibrary_ShowContent&propertyType=document&columns=1&id=HMCE_PROD1_028338#P32_4468)'s a reference to the relevant Combined Nomenclature Explanatory Note:

I didn't want to rub Chris up the wrong way. Hey, this won't be the first or the last time I've had to eat crow around here, not by a long shot. Thanks fellows for posting the link and for following up with Nikon. Pardon me for saying that it doesn't make very much sense to me and I still find it very hard to swallow. Much appreciated,

Hey, this won't be the first or the last time I've had to eat crow around here, not by a long shot.

BBQ crow and chips is a good combination, but don't cook it for any longer than 5 minutes or the chips may become frazzled.

Best wishes from a very wet day in London :-(

Thanks for the suggestion, and for allowing me to cook it. I'll fire it up on some Mesquite.

Meanwhile, check out this point of view from Stu Maschwitz:

ProLost: DSLR Movies, Pros and Cons (http://prolost.blogspot.com/2008/09/dslr-movies-pros-and-cons.html)

Huh. Well, it's good to know, because it suggests the cam may not heat up too much to shoot again right after reaching the 5-min limit.

Wait, wait, wait...

The CNEN says that thirty minutes is the criterion for classifying the device as a video camera recorder. I posted the link to show that it's not a tax thing.

Thanks, Steve -- does this mean I can cling-wrap this plate of crow and stuff it in the freezer for a later date? There's plenty left over, believe me. Like I said, it was hard to swallow.

Keep on chewing Chris, but save some for me too.


This is an extract from an article published on techradar.com

"Yes, that's right, video capture. It was only a matter of time before someone worked out how to incorporate video capture in a DSLR, and here it is. As well as full-resolution 12 million pixel still capture, the D90 can capture 1280x720 High-definition video, with (monaural) sound in five minute bursts.

The official reason for the five minute limit is to prevent heat build-up in the DX-format CMOS sensor, but rather conveniently, this limit also means that the D90 is categorised as a stills camera with an HD video capture function, rather than the other way round, which means that a lower rate of duty is payable on the bodies, keeping the price down for consumers."

Link to article

Hands-on review: Nikon D90 | Review | TechRadar UK (http://www.techradar.com/products/cameras-and-camcorders/cameras/digital-slrs/nikon-d90-458774/review)

Is there a crow button, or is it buried in the menus?

This is an extract from an article published on techradar.com...I don't know, Vincent... that seems to conflict with the published Customs info referenced by Steve Brady above. I'm inclined to take the word of the official gov.uk source over a tech review site....

Is there a crow button, or is it buried in the menus?Attached with my compliments.

Is it for Usa only because tax law are different in any country, so Canada should have longer recording time for the D-90. Or maybe shorther recording time since we are more taxed than Usa, and camera cost more even if the dollar is equal.

Thanks for the dinner, Chris!

Yeah, the exposure locking thing is HUGE. Sure, you can correct it in post to some degree, but what a frame-by-frame pain in the rear.

It seems the downsides of the camera are...

1) The rolling shutter. This isn't a problem on all shots, so plan accordingly.
2) The 5-minute limit. No problem for most narrative work. Don't try shooting a wedding.
3) 720p, rather than 1080p. No problem if you're going to the web or DVD.
4) Aliasing. It seems that the sub-sampling from the full sensor to 720p isn't ideal. Again, reduce to the web or DVD, and it should be fine.
5) The codec. It's not the best, but could be worse. I tried color correcting the heck out of the skateboard clip, and it stood up reasonably well. Bottom line: the audience (DVD/web) won't care.
6) It's not RAW, but I was able to color correct with a much smoother result than on many 8-bit cams. The low-noise seems to really help.
7) limited to 24p. No over/under-cranking, unless you count ~4fps photo modes.
8) Limited video features. (Though we'd be shooting mostly manually anyway, right?)
9) No audio input. The built-in mic will help us sync things up, but either the audio needs to be added in post, or you need an audio recorder.

The upsides are:
1) A Red One sized sensor for good light sensitivity.
2) A Red One sized sensor for shallow DOF.
3) Takes most any Nikon lens.
4) $1,299 for body and glass.
5) You happen to get a digital SLR for free with this video camera.
6) Do time lapse or stutter time, and you can have 4k RAW.
7) It will be available very soon.
8) When something better comes out, or if it sucks, you can sell it on eBay!

Overall, if you want to do traditional video, such as record a soccer game, forget it. If you want to do something more artistic or experimental on a budget, this could be the ticket. Especially, if you're willing to plan your shots to match the camera's strengths.

At the end of the day, it's just another tool. How good it is depends on the job at hand - and the skills of the artist.

Chris,

The bottom line on this matter is that the camera will only record for 5 minutes or 20 minutes at a lower resolution, whether this is for tax or heat reasons I am not sure anymore. I may just pass on the bird this time, but keep it in the freezer.

As Jon rightly points out, it is just another tool. The exciting aspect is that other manufacturers will follow suit and I am sure that we will get higher specified DSLR video capability in future models. Canon have something up their sleeve and although I do not have any information on their new product, I do know that they were looking at movie capability at least two years ago. Canon UK has a press brief on 17 September and Photokina is a couple of weeks time, so we won't have long to wait.

I do know that I will be getting the camera within the next two weeks and I will do a full review on it. I will also make available some untouched footage to your readers so they can tinker about with it. I will also be working on a DVD user guide for the camera and hope to have it ready in about 6 to 8 weeks.


Best wishes

I'm intrigued by the sub-sampling theory. It certainly would explain those jaggies.

I think that it would be necessary to sample every third pixel (ie 1 pixel in a 3 x 3 block) in order to maintain the bayer pattern, so the video frame would either occupy a 3840 x 2160 window of the sensor's overall 4288 x 2848 pixels, or the sampled image dimensions would be 1429 x 804 and would require scaling to 1280 x 720. It should be a trivial task to determine whether the video image is windowed or scaled by taking a still and some video of the same subject and comparing the FOV.

If the jaggies are caused by windowed sub-sampling, it should be possible, in theory at least, to alleviate them using a "soft f/x" type filter with the appropriate (very small) amount of diffusion.

Also interesting to note is that in order to achieve 1920 x 1080 video from a sensor which is capable of producing traditional 3:2 aspect ratio stills using such a sub-sampling method would require a 22 megapixel sensor!

It seems to be downsampled. How else would it send out 1080i over HDMI ? Does not make sense to upscale from the 720P signal..

Vincent - great news about your review coming up - I'd like to see reviews for this revolutionary technology coming from the full spectrum of possible reviewers , from photographers , fimmakers & videomakers , artist , and consumers . I have seen strong rumors about the new canon 5d upgrade also incorporating this feature so Nikon might not be in the limelight too long. I'm just waiting to see the first d90 with followfocus and mattebox attached . Otherwise all the techspec is premature until some people get the camera in their hands. So let's send out a message to firstowners.

www.kurthbousman.com

The bottom line on this matter is that the camera will only record for 5 minutes... whether this is for tax or heat reasons I am not sure anymore.It amazes me how much back and forth there's been about the "why" of the clip length limit... ultimately the reasons why don't matter nearly as much as the discussion of how to deal with it. I think it's a bit disappointing that there's been this much interest in the reason for the limitation, and less expression of the possibilities this camera represents. I sure would like to see this whole thing move forward in a positive way... that's pretty much what I was getting at in an earlier post: so what about the "why." It is the way it is. Let's talk about what it can do.

I do know that I will be getting the camera within the next two weeks and I will do a full review on it. I will also make available some untouched footage to your readers so they can tinker about with it. I will also be working on a DVD user guide for the camera and hope to have it ready in about 6 to 8 weeks.Really looking forward to that, Vincent! Please keep me advised as to your status. Meanwhile, if there's enough interest among this crowd and if the demand is there, we'll probably fire up a dedicated forum for the D90 and whatever other new D-SLR's that come along with the same feature set.

Here are some user test video links...

Locked exposure:
Nikon D90 -- First Footages on Vimeo (http://www.vimeo.com/1675377)


Manual lens:
D90 test footage on Vimeo (http://www.vimeo.com/1676618)

Chris - that's a good idea - probably with subforums and one might be video from still cameras in general.k

If the jaggies are caused by windowed sub-sampling, it should be possible, in theory at least, to alleviate them using a "soft f/x" type filter with the appropriate (very small) amount of diffusion.


Excellent suggestion! I wonder if the material for anti-aliasing filters is available to the public. Nikon could make some money selling such a filter for MovieMode. I see a number of narrow band filters for telescopes, but nothing that would be an low pass filter.

Humn. Been following the D90 chat in various forums. For what it's worth...
- I shoot video and still all day long is seems- and I use my cellphone for both to scout locations, grab low res Styling Intelligence etc.
- I use my ridiculously underestimated digicam for my still work and the HV20 for video production.
When pressed for any video no matter how low quality, it's the digicam with 1 minute clips and my cellphone that really shine.
I imagine that Nikon ( who reads forums religiously) will 'get it' and jump in on the video market soon. No doubt, Canon and all the main players will 'get it' too... that is
WE NEED A 5-12 MEGAPIXEL HYBRID THAT ALLOWS DOF MANUAL FOCUS AND CAPTURES BOTH VIDS AND STILLS for 10- 15 minute takes.When the pleas gets loud enough, they may introduce it. The D90's alleged 5 minute limitation a move in the right direction
The Nikon D90 is perfect for still shooters that have a weight/volume budget ( photojournalists for example) but who still want to be able to capture near broadcast capable vids of fast breaking news as they cover events with stills.
When I travel for location shoots in still, I NEVER tote my video gear. The vid bag just weighs too much on top of my still bag. So the D90 would be perfect.
On the topic of sensor overheating. Simple, shoot in the winter- you should get an hour of vid no problem at 0ºf No. Seriously, the same guys that have figured out 'Hot Packs' to extend battery life of vid gear/digicams in cold weather, should be reading this and figuring out ways to cool the sensor with an add-on device.
Indeed, what would it take to pipe a heatsink conduit from near the sensor array to the outside edge of the camera for such a purpose? C'mon Nikon!

Anyone still up for HDMI uncompressed capture ? Cant access one from where I am now ..

I might sell my Letus Extreme for the D90, the combination for photo and video at 35mm DOF is simply too good to pass. The 5min is not a problem either as I intend to use the D90 as a back-up for my video cameras, most artistic shots are under 5min any ways. Audio on an external recorder is not all that bad, this is going to create shock waves.

So will the files show up on the desktop through USB as a nikon drive as they do with my D300 D70 etc.? Will it actually be as easy as importing the clips in FCP as motion jpeg?

USB may be awfully slow for this and the compression not the best, but wow if this is the case. I mean 8 gig SD storage for $50, a built in 3" HD monitor and it comes with an effective 27mm - 150mm VR lens. That's pretty much a perfect prime lens package range to boot.

I was going to update our D70 back-up body anyway, but I'm so all over the idea of a camera that I literally hike and ski and snowshoe with regularly around my neck now covering much of what our HD100/Mini35 setup does.

Not perfect but the possibilities...man.

USB may be awfully slow for this ...It's USB2, plenty fast enough for HD.

It's USB2, plenty fast enough for HD.

Hey Chris, long time no text.
Agreed...even if it weren't USB2. I meant it more as a "so what"...make coffee and come back and import same as an FH drive or P2 card.

Either way it's such a cool new direction that it was a done deal as soon as I heard about it.

What i'm more interested in is what I mentioned before in relation to this technology, and thats the impact it will have on our professions.
A merging like this will surely have a big impact on wedding / event coverage. Im just not quite sure if the photographer will try to muscle out the video guy or vice versa. If it does start to happen, photographers need to thread carefully, the scarlett is just around the corner. They need to be careful they don't start a war they can't win.
In relation to the D90, im sure there's already a wedding photographer or two considering offering "video coverage of the vows".
Its interesting to think of other areas this could impact.

As a wedding shooter using an SR11... already contemplating the "crossover" potential!

7.2MPixel res stills aren't bad... still need an SLR for larger size pix/formals, but the disciplines are very possibly merging...

As a wedding shooter using an SR11... already contemplating the "crossover" potential!

7.2MPixel res stills aren't bad... still need an SLR for larger size pix/formals, but the disciplines are very possibly merging...

I've been shooting for a photo book the last year around film projects for our biz. I can't tell you how many times I've gone out in the mountains after a perfect snowfall or a sports shoot or wildlife shoot where I was frustrated being both a photographer and film maker. Frustrated that I had to decide which medium to capture these one of a kind opportunities.

I also find myself gravitating toward the Nikon for our own content because it's so small and facile compared to a JVC with a Mini 35 attached.

The idea of one camera able to capture in both mediums with no drives and full dof has gotten me more jazzed than anything since HD or 35mm lens adapters and we were some of the first people to shoot with the Mini35.

What i'm more interested in is what I mentioned before in relation to this technology, and thats the impact it will have on our professions.
A merging like this will surely have a big impact on wedding / event coverage. Im just not quite sure if the photographer will try to muscle out the video guy or vice versa. If it does start to happen, photographers need to thread carefully, the scarlett is just around the corner. They need to be careful they don't start a war they can't win.
In relation to the D90, im sure there's already a wedding photographer or two considering offering "video coverage of the vows".
Its interesting to think of other areas this could impact.

Griffen a great photographer can't do video and photos at the "same time", like wise for the video guy. You specialise in a field because they are so different to a degree. The two won't fight each other, this just offers better possibilities for both camps. This is what journalist have been waiting for and the Pro bodies will surly offer better solutions. It's not a replacement for video cameras it's an add-on for creativity.

Griffen a great photographer can't do video and photos at the "same time", like wise for the video guy. You specialise in a field because they are so different to a degree. The two won't fight each other, this just offers better possibilities for both camps. This is what journalist have been waiting for and the Pro bodies will surly offer better solutions. It's not a replacement for video cameras it's an add-on for creativity.

It would be 'nice' if you were right Nicholas, but I fear you may not be, entirely.
Are the 2 fields really that different? They both follow all the same rules for composition & framing.
Up to now the main restricting factor has been the need for 2 seperate machines.
Jim sees what Im getting at by pointing out how he many times longed for the ability to shoot a little motion after spending a long time picking out & setting up a shot.

When it comes to most professionals in my area, they are in the business to make money. They wouldn't be the type of operators who would not shoot some HQ video with a camera that could, simply because it was not their field. If it was made worth their while to do so, they would. Granted, they may not be 'great' photographers but they are busy nonetheless.

Ger

I don't own the camera, but this is what I've gathered from my research...

* The D90 uses the full sensor size for 720p24, so you can get shallow DOF and goo low light response.

* Many have posted that the HDMI output has the graphics overlay, so it's not useful. I could be wrong.

* I haven't read a word about variable frame rates, aside from 4fps and slower time lapse in camera mode.

* I believe that it has the full dynamic range of the sensor, but that is probably lost during M-JPEG encoding.

From what I've seen the weaknesses are:

* Relatively slow rolling shutter

* Less than perfect decimation from the full resolution to 720, introducing some aliasing (jaggies).

* So-so compression.

* 5 minute limit.

Personally, I think the camera absolutely rocks for non-action, narrative (under 5 min shots), tripod stuff that will go to DVD or the web. The full sized sensor and lens options make this a unique, powerful tool.

I don't own the camera, but this is what I've gathered from my research...

* The D90 uses the full sensor size for 720p24, so you can get shallow DOF and goo low light response.

* Many have posted that the HDMI output has the graphics overlay, so it's not useful. I could be wrong.


However, the overlays are on the top and bottom and if the output is cropped at 2.35:1 then the overlays are removed. Also, removing the overlays is a matter of a simple firmware fix from Nikon.


* I haven't read a word about variable frame rates, aside from 4fps and slower time lapse in camera mode.

The mechanical shutter can give a slower frame but you will destroy it. Its 24P in video - thats all

* I believe that it has the full dynamic range of the sensor, but that is probably lost during M-JPEG encoding.

Yes, but the RAW is 12-bit i.e. 4096 and JPEG is 8-bit i.e. 256. You can set a custom profile to map the 4096 to 256. So, if you take time before to decide the "look" of your film, you can get a very nice picture in-camera without requiring to degrade the footage in your NLE..

From what I've seen the weaknesses are:

* Relatively slow rolling shutter

* Less than perfect decimation from the full resolution to 720, introducing some aliasing (jaggies).

So far, the only output seen in the MJPEG that is 13.5 mbps for 720P i.e. 4x more compression than DV. The jury is still out on whether the jaggies are due to JPEG or due to the debayering or the decimation..

* So-so compression.

* 5 minute limit.

Again, a firmware fix from Nikon. Also, can be fixed if the HDMI output is recorded using Cineform or uncompressed..


Personally, I think the camera absolutely rocks for non-action, narrative (under 5 min shots), tripod stuff that will go to DVD or the web. The full sized sensor and lens options make this a unique, powerful tool.

This camera has a lot of potential. I just wish someone would post an HDMI uncompressed framegrab. If the HDMI output is indeed 4:2:2 BEFORE the JPEG compression, this would be a wonderful thing. And, if the 1080i is also uncompressed, and it turns out that the 1080i is NOT uprezzed..

So many questions, but a HDMI grab is needed..